Disgusted With Conservatism, America Was Born Liberal.

[CrusaderFrank]

Modern American Libruls have so little that they can claim credit for: Public Housing, Public Schools, and government programs Multi-Trillion deficits, so, of course they're going to rewrite history and claim credit for Jesus, George Washington, Einstein and everyone in between.

If Modern American Libruls lived in Colonial times they would have tarred their mouths onto King Georges balls for free health care

These threads are always so funny.

 

[hylandrdet]

The Constitution of the United States is without a doubt, the most LIBERAL constitution ever drafted.

No nation had ever dare allow their people permission to do the following.

1. To pray to whatever GOD they chose to worship
2. To speak out freely against the actions of their government
3. To armed themselves and form a militia to not only fight against foreign invaders, but their own government if necessary.

As long as the overall objective of our Constitution and Bill of Rights is to ensure our right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" the conservatives will have to deal with the many interpretations of what "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" means to each and every demographic in this country.

That means they must respect the rights of those whose lifestyles they don't agree with (WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE LAW OF COURSE).

Sorry conservatives, but you can't undo what the Constitution and the Bill of Rights had done. Food for thought.

 

[Oddball]

Joe is the kind of lib I would never argue with (and i love arguing with libs) because he is beyond an idiot, and ignorant of history.

a little knowledge is an absurd thing.

Today's conservatives are basically classical liberals. Today's liberals are basically marxists.

Today's "conservatives" (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean anymore) are basically Marxist Lite®.

The only honest-to-goodness classical liberals left are the libertarians.

 

[rdean]

The funny thing about Americans. Remember, most of them came here to get away from "conservatives".

 

[uscitizen]

The tories or english loyalists were mostly conservatives.
This is fact.

 

[AkronGuy]

Not all the elite were Liberal, some were Moderate, some were Conservative, some had underlying nationalistic and ethnic reasons behind their politics, for some it was personal, or religious. And most people in the colonies were neither Loyalists or Patriots, they were just average folks who wanted to live their life in peace.

 

[uscitizen]

Is "corporate feudalism" on the rise?
And is this what current "conservatives" support?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Thanks for starting my morning off with a good laugh! There's simply nothing beyond corruption to support modern Librulism.

Gandhi? A Lib.

The Christ? A Lib.

Abraham who so loved G-d that he would sacrifice his son? Surely another flaming Lib

The Founding Fathers who fought their fellow countrymen for Independence and their right to self govern? All Libs.

And what about the Democrats who left the Union and sought to kill their fellow countrymen rather than give up their slaves? Oh, they were Conservatives.

Like I said, thanks for the laugh.

 

[editec]

What are today's DNC liberals?

Good cops

What are today's RNC conservatives?

Bad cops.

You can change that depending on how you feel about some social issues, but the fact is that as it regards things that truly matter (economics) they're both on the same team.

 

[Old Rocks]

Joe is the kind of lib I would never argue with (and i love arguing with libs) because he is beyond an idiot, and ignorant of history.

Given that you just did a yap-yap, no information imparted, only character denigration, I would have to say that Joe is far and away your intellectual superior. His post imparted information and a clear point of view.

 

[Old Rocks]

Modern American Libruls have so little that they can claim credit for: Public Housing, Public Schools, and government programs Multi-Trillion deficits, so, of course they're going to rewrite history and claim credit for Jesus, George Washington, Einstein and everyone in between.

If Modern American Libruls lived in Colonial times they would have tarred their mouths onto King Georges balls for free health care

These threads are always so funny.

OK, Frank. To their credit, modern liberals, Social Security, Food and Drug Administration, Center for Disease Control, Environmental Protection Agency, workplace safety laws, and so many more agencies and laws that protect the citizens of this nation. Almost all of these laws and agencies were fought by conservatives, all stating that they were doing so in the name of freedom.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Modern American Libruls have so little that they can claim credit for: Public Housing, Public Schools, and government programs Multi-Trillion deficits, so, of course they're going to rewrite history and claim credit for Jesus, George Washington, Einstein and everyone in between.

If Modern American Libruls lived in Colonial times they would have tarred their mouths onto King Georges balls for free health care

These threads are always so funny.

OK, Frank. To their credit, modern liberals, Social Security, Food and Drug Administration, Center for Disease Control, Environmental Protection Agency, workplace safety laws, and so many more agencies and laws that protect the citizens of this nation. Almost all of these laws and agencies were fought by conservatives, all stating that they were doing so in the name of freedom.

And to think that it only cost us tens of trillion of dollars.

Librulism, such a deal!!

 

[rightwinger]

Liberals typically came from the middle class –the commercial and industrial bourgeoisie, the professionals, and the intellectuals. Their chief opponents were the vested interests of traditional society – the aristocracy, the clergy, and the military – seeking to retain their favored positions. The peasantry was still generally conservative, strongly influenced by the clergy and sometimes by the aristocracy, and not very active in politics. Liberals were sometimes contemptuous of the propertyless masses below, forming alliances with them only so far as necessary. Middle-class liberals’ contempt for those below them was often a mask for fear; their contempt of the aristocrats above them was tinged with envy.

Well put.

Somke things don't change

 

[uscitizen]

Health care in colonial times???

 

[AkronGuy]

Modern American Libruls have so little that they can claim credit for: Public Housing, Public Schools, and government programs Multi-Trillion deficits, so, of course they're going to rewrite history and claim credit for Jesus, George Washington, Einstein and everyone in between.

If Modern American Libruls lived in Colonial times they would have tarred their mouths onto King Georges balls for free health care

These threads are always so funny.

OK, Frank. To their credit, modern liberals, Social Security, Food and Drug Administration, Center for Disease Control, Environmental Protection Agency, workplace safety laws, and so many more agencies and laws that protect the citizens of this nation. Almost all of these laws and agencies were fought by conservatives, all stating that they were doing so in the name of freedom.

You mean by conservative politicians. My elders were and still are conservative, and they supported all this, some supported workers rights with bullets and blood. Somethings aren't about liberal or conservative, but rather right and wrong. But remember, conservatives alongside liberals fought for these rights, sometimes with bullets and blood. It's easy to say what you're saying without knowing people who literally put their lives on the line for the things we all take forgranted today.

 

[AkronGuy]

Health care in colonial times???

A jug of whiskey, a stick, and a hacksaw.

Can I have a script for a jug of whiskey and we'll save the other two for the next visit ?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Modern American Libruls have so little that they can claim credit for: Public Housing, Public Schools, and government programs Multi-Trillion deficits, so, of course they're going to rewrite history and claim credit for Jesus, George Washington, Einstein and everyone in between.

If Modern American Libruls lived in Colonial times they would have tarred their mouths onto King Georges balls for free health care

These threads are always so funny.

OK, Frank. To their credit, modern liberals, Social Security, Food and Drug Administration, Center for Disease Control, Environmental Protection Agency, workplace safety laws, and so many more agencies and laws that protect the citizens of this nation. Almost all of these laws and agencies were fought by conservatives, all stating that they were doing so in the name of freedom.

And to think that it only cost us tens of trillion of dollars.

Librulism, such a deal!!

What's 100 trillion dollars among 300 million people over 100 years?

It's an almost reasonable cost for social security and safety that's what it is!

Why is protecting me and my neighbors from The People of Yemen prioritized as a no limit expenditure and protecting me and my neighbors from DOW chemical and our own bad luck "not the responsibility of government"?

 

[shintao]

Disgusted with conservatism, America was born liberal.

Amazing what one can learn from a history book... check out what it was to be 'liberal' in the worlds power base, Europe, during our first 75 years as a nation.

Sign me up...

1. GENERAL NATURE OF NINETEENTH-CENTURY LIBERALISM (19th century = 1800’s)

Liberalism is a difficult term to define. It has various shades and from time to time changes its complexion. During the nineteenth century, liberalism had developed into an ideology – a loose set of beliefs about the world and how it should be.

The roots of liberalism stretch back through the French Revolution and the Enlightenment to the seventeenth century political thoughts of John Locke and others. At the base of liberalism was a belief in individualism. Liberals optimistically believed that individuals, unaided and free from outside forces or institutions, should pursue their own interests. Individuals deserved equality before the law and the right to embark on careers open to talent. Government should be constitutional and based on popular sovereignty. The people should be represented by an elected legislature, to whom government ministers were responsible. Government should be limited in its powers, with individual freedoms as freedom of the press, of speech, and of assembly guaranteed. The role of government should be that of a passive police officer, enforcing laws and contracts. Government should interfere in economic life as little as possible, leaving that realm to private enterprise. Liberals were also anticlerical; that is, they opposed interference in government by organized religion. During the first half of the nineteenth century, liberals were usually nationalists, since nationalism at that time was primarily concerned with freeing peoples from alien rule and uniting them under one flag, and nationalism seemed consistent with popular sovereignty, constitutional government, and people’s rights. Liberals, particularly during the first half of the nineteenth century, were not democrats; liberals wanted to limit the right to vote to those holding wealth and the educated. Only later in the nineteenth century did liberals begin to favor universal male suffrage.

Liberals typically came from the middle class –the commercial and industrial bourgeoisie, the professionals, and the intellectuals. Their chief opponents were the vested interests of traditional society – the aristocracy, the clergy, and the military – seeking to retain their favored positions. The peasantry was still generally conservative, strongly influenced by the clergy and sometimes by the aristocracy, and not very active in politics. Liberals were sometimes contemptuous of the propertyless masses below, forming alliances with them only so far as necessary. Middle-class liberals’ contempt for those below them was often a mask for fear; their contempt of the aristocrats above them was tinged with envy.

Liberals stood in contrast to conservatives. Liberals were optimistic about the individual; conservatives were pessimistic. Liberals had great faith in reason; conservatives argued that reason was too abstract. Liberals favored many of the ideas and reforms of the Enlightenment and French Revolution; conservatives attacked them. Liberals valued the individual over society; conservatives felt the individual was secondary. For liberals the state was an agent of the people; for conservatives the state was a growing organism not to be tampered with.

Their chief opponents were the vested interests of traditional society – the aristocracy, the clergy, and the military – seeking to retain their favored positions. The peasantry was still generally conservative, strongly influenced by the clergy and sometimes by the aristocracy, and not very active in politics.

The more things change, the more they remain, eh?

-Joe

That was well written and understandable. Thanks. Note worthy.....

 

[California Girl]

Hey, you know what would be cool? If fucking idiots learned to think for themselves instead of regurgitating other people's thoughts.

The word 'sheeple' is most appropriate.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Disgusted with conservatism, America was born liberal.

Amazing what one can learn from a history book... check out what it was to be 'liberal' in the worlds power base, Europe, during our first 75 years as a nation.

Sign me up...

1. GENERAL NATURE OF NINETEENTH-CENTURY LIBERALISM (19th century = 1800’s)

Liberalism is a difficult term to define. It has various shades and from time to time changes its complexion. During the nineteenth century, liberalism had developed into an ideology – a loose set of beliefs about the world and how it should be.

The roots of liberalism stretch back through the French Revolution and the Enlightenment to the seventeenth century political thoughts of John Locke and others. At the base of liberalism was a belief in individualism. Liberals optimistically believed that individuals, unaided and free from outside forces or institutions, should pursue their own interests. Individuals deserved equality before the law and the right to embark on careers open to talent. Government should be constitutional and based on popular sovereignty. The people should be represented by an elected legislature, to whom government ministers were responsible. Government should be limited in its powers, with individual freedoms as freedom of the press, of speech, and of assembly guaranteed. The role of government should be that of a passive police officer, enforcing laws and contracts. Government should interfere in economic life as little as possible, leaving that realm to private enterprise. Liberals were also anticlerical; that is, they opposed interference in government by organized religion. During the first half of the nineteenth century, liberals were usually nationalists, since nationalism at that time was primarily concerned with freeing peoples from alien rule and uniting them under one flag, and nationalism seemed consistent with popular sovereignty, constitutional government, and people’s rights. Liberals, particularly during the first half of the nineteenth century, were not democrats; liberals wanted to limit the right to vote to those holding wealth and the educated. Only later in the nineteenth century did liberals begin to favor universal male suffrage.

Liberals typically came from the middle class –the commercial and industrial bourgeoisie, the professionals, and the intellectuals. Their chief opponents were the vested interests of traditional society – the aristocracy, the clergy, and the military – seeking to retain their favored positions. The peasantry was still generally conservative, strongly influenced by the clergy and sometimes by the aristocracy, and not very active in politics. Liberals were sometimes contemptuous of the propertyless masses below, forming alliances with them only so far as necessary. Middle-class liberals’ contempt for those below them was often a mask for fear; their contempt of the aristocrats above them was tinged with envy.

Liberals stood in contrast to conservatives. Liberals were optimistic about the individual; conservatives were pessimistic. Liberals had great faith in reason; conservatives argued that reason was too abstract. Liberals favored many of the ideas and reforms of the Enlightenment and French Revolution; conservatives attacked them. Liberals valued the individual over society; conservatives felt the individual was secondary. For liberals the state was an agent of the people; for conservatives the state was a growing organism not to be tampered with.

Their chief opponents were the vested interests of traditional society – the aristocracy, the clergy, and the military – seeking to retain their favored positions. The peasantry was still generally conservative, strongly influenced by the clergy and sometimes by the aristocracy, and not very active in politics.

The more things change, the more they remain, eh?

That was well written and understandable. Thanks. Note worthy.....

You're welcome for the post but don't thank me for the text, it came from a book. The title and authors are noted in the opening post. It's a history text book that IS fairly easy to read and pretty darned informative. A LOT of pauses to go

Books. Wonderful devices for learning the relevant history before you toss labels around and look like a dork... you just have to read them.