Do Conservatives know what health insurance is?

[BlueGin]

And just a quick run down on how prices are set in a hospital.

Hospitals pay a fee to a buying group that purchases all of their supplies from the vendors/distributors. Each buying group negotiates pricing contracts between vendors/distributors and hospitals.

There are 8 large hospital buying groups and several small ones ...all with different contracts and pricing.

Hospitals price Tylenol based on which buying group has the best pricing contacts on the majority of their needed supplies.

Same principle applies with the different insurance providers...each negotiate a set reimbursement amount /hospital allowance adjustment on services and supplies ...minus patients co pay and deductible.

Using the chargemaster is a guide only. Pricing is not set in stone.

Which is why prices vary for same procedures.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

More bullshit from the board bullshit artist.

As usual, you're wrong. But being wrong is standard for you guys. You say things off the top of your head, then when you get corrected you get all defensive and whiny. Stop being wrong all the time and you won't have to feel shitty about yourself.

17K isn't catastrophic.

First of all, that was the average bankruptcy. And secondly, $17K is catastrophic if 60% of all bankruptcies pre-ACA were medical related and 75% of those folks had insurance. The problem is that you guys have no conception of that because you're fortunate enough to not have experienced it. So you think that gives you the right to judge others. Well, I'm judging you now of being a know-nothing who just reacts to things instead of giving them thought.

It's close to what you shell out every year for a Bronze plan.

Not so, depending on your income and how much health care costs you incur. If your income qualifies you for subsidies, which most of those on the exchanges do receive, you're not spending that much out of your own pocket. You're only spending that much if you're actually incurring those costs. Not everyone on a Bronze plan is paying $17K a year.

Catastrophic plans were there for the 100K issues and they worked fine.

No, they dind't "work fine" as 45% of people who filed for bankruptcy because of medical bills had insurance. A catastrophic plan is a rip-off because they all universally had lifetime caps. So what do you think happens when you reach the lifetime cap? You get screwed. That's what 45% of people filing for bankruptcy faced pre-ACA. That's a shitload by any metric.

Calling them a rip off is just the ploy of you and the others who were so caught off guard when our liar and chief got caught with his pants down. Nobody every said a word about them until people lost them and lost their doctors too.

People were saying plenty about them, you just weren't paying attention.

It's to bad you can't be less transparent in your lies.

I provide links and charts for everything. You guys don't. You're the ones who lack transparency.

More bullshit from the board bullshit artist.

As usual, you're wrong. But being wrong is standard for you guys. You say things off the top of your head, then when you get corrected you get all defensive and whiny. Stop being wrong all the time and you won't have to feel shitty about yourself.

What's worse is that the charts and links you provide are nothing but propaganda.

The chart at the end of this post can't possibly account for the fact that economy which was in the tank in 2010 was steadily getting better.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If the government sells me a $1000 flood policy when the water is already 3 feet deep in my living room, who thinks that they sold me flood insurance?

Who thinks what they gave me was a gift/welfare?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Catastrophic plans were there for the 100K issues and they worked fine.

No, they dind't "work fine" as 45% of people who filed for bankruptcy because of medical bills had insurance. A catastrophic plan is a rip-off because they all universally had lifetime caps. So what do you think happens when you reach the lifetime cap? You get screwed. That's what 45% of people filing for bankruptcy faced pre-ACA. That's a shitload by any metric.

That has to be one of the most retarded talking point you dickweeds spout.

1. There are no statistics of who was successful with these catastrophic plans. If your vaunted 45% is 1% of those who had and used plans...than there is no shitload (except your post).
2. There is nothing that says what kind of insurance that 45% had.
3. As already mentioned...the wads who spout that article can't differentiate how much of that 17K was due to medical bills.

This whole argument is left wing diaper load of propaganda.

Nobody, but nobody was talking about those plans before Obama fucked up the system.

NOBODY.

 

[mudwhistle]

 

[Sun Devil 92]

More clueless crap It does not prevent financial ruin.

If you had to pay $33,000 to have your appendix removed, that's financial ruin for most Americans. You pay $200 a month in health insurance so that doesn't happen to you. This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say you don't know what health insurance is, don't know what insurance companies do, and don't know how any of it relates to your actual health care.

And yet insurance didn't protect everyone (by your own admission). And it wasn't catastrophic plans.

There is nothing that says it is financial ruin for most Americans. Sorry......

You pat $200/month only if you get subsidies (again...cost shifting bullshit).

And you'll pay a huge deductible.

Early on, anyone who had paid into an HSA at a reasonable rate could have afforded the operation.

And if insurance wasn't in the game, prices would not be that high.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

That is exactly what health insurance is. You guys just don't seem to grasp it.

Keep spitting it out.

It sounds no less stupid than the first time you said it.

 

[BlueGin]

He gets the best negotiated healthplan...which means he probably pays nothing...folks on Medicare probably pay more out of pocket than he does.

 

[mudwhistle]

He gets the best negotiated healthplan...which means he probably pays nothing...folks on Medicare probably pay more out of pocket than he does.

I think he should have to get treatment at the VA like the rest of us.

 

[BlueGin]

You do realize that the hospitals have ( and negotiate) contracts for all of the different health plans right?

Yes, they do. However, the chargemaster is fixed and doesn't change depending on the insurer. The contracts insurers have with providers is to determine how much of the charge in the chargemaster the insurance company will reimburse.

The charge master is not "fixed" ...while it is required to be updated every year for reporting purposes a lot of times a standard yearly mark up is applied across the board for all items and services listed...when in reality pricing hasn't changed at all on some of the items and services on the chargemaster.

Again...why some prices for procedures will vary due to patients being billed less than was reported.

 

[Pete7469]

I believe you should die because you're too fucking stupid to understand you don't have a right to demand doctors keep you alive at no expense to yourself.

Ah, but Ronald Reagan was the one who mandated that hospitals treat anyone who shows up. And I seriously doubt you would apply that standard to yourself, if you found yourself in such a position.

Right.

I understand I need to compensate medical professionals for their services.

Parasites like you demand people give you free shit.

Go suck start a 12 gauge.

 

[bripat9643]

On Fox 'n' Friends, Brian Kilmeade lamented that healthy people pay for sick people.

That is literally what health insurance is.

Congrats to the not-presently-on-fire for paying for firefighters.

No, that's what welfare is.

 

[bripat9643]

On Fox 'n' Friends, Brian Kilmeade lamented that healthy people pay for sick people.

That is literally what health insurance is.

Congrats to the not-presently-on-fire for paying for firefighters.

There are places where you don't have to pay for firefighters.

If your house burns down....you are out of luck.

But you have that choice.

They have private fire departments, dumbass. And if you have a mortgage on your house, the bank requires you to have a contract with a fire service.

 

[Boss]

I hope the OP realizes that parroting Cenk Uygur doesn't make him sound smart or clever. It actually makes you sound like a parrot who is incapable of individual thought. It is progressives pushing for "single payer" (i.e.; no insurance carriers) who don't understand how the insurance industry works. Mandating coverage of preexisting conditions while not requiring the individual mandate to carry insurance, turns insurance into a massive welfare program. If you enforce a mandate for coverage, you drastically increase the risk pool which creates unrealistic deductibles and premiums. Invoke price controls and the insurance carriers can't make a profit and have no incentive to remain in business.

But progressives already know all of this. We are now entering "phase II" of the plan for nationalized health care. First came the untenable ACA which is now failing as predicted. What is now being proposed are massive bailouts to keep the fledgling insurance companies afloat a few more years. As they begin to fail, we'll hear more "single payer" talk. This has been the plan from day one.

Now, the "let Obamacare implode" crowd will soon discover that Ted Cruz was 100% right and they should've backed him and done everything in their power to stop this when they had the chance... because when it implodes, we're going to "single payer" and totally nationalized health care. It's coming, you're not going to stop it, and 20 years from now, you'll see real life death panels, widespread health care rationing and extremely limited access to healthcare across the board. You're also going to see your government becoming more and more involved with your freedom and liberty regarding basic lifestyle choices.

 

[mudwhistle]

He gets the best negotiated healthplan...which means he probably pays nothing...folks on Medicare probably pay more out of pocket than he does.

John McCain was hailed by the left for voting to keep Obamacare. Now he's heading back to AZ to get treatment for brain cancer using a health care plan that only he and his fellow congresscritters qualify for.

Mainstream Scream: Brian Williams hails GOP 'courage' to keep Obamacare

 

[debbiedowner]

You buy car insurance, you can get all different kinds.

Used to be you could buy a catastrophic plan (and spare me the junk plan bullshit...never existed until Obama fucked up the roll out) for 75/month.

Now they call the same thing a bronze plan and want 400/month for it.

 

[The Derp]

Insurance companies can sell insurance and the medical community sells their products to both insured or non insured would be a free market.

OK, couple things; Insurance companies are the exact opposite of a free market because they limit and restrict your choices as a patient to what will protect their bottom line. You don't have "free choice" with health care at all, and insurance companies are the reason why. Keep in mind the choice you are making is not who will give you health care, but rather who administers reimbursement for that health care. That's the choice you are making. The insurer is making the choice for you as to which providers you can and cannot see. And they contract with those providers to determine how much they will reimburse for a procedure according to the chargemaster document. This is what I mean when I say you people don't know what health insurance is, what insurance companies do, and how any of it relates to your actual health care.

So again, it doesn't seem like you have given this much thought. The medical community already does what you're saying. The part you don't seem to grasp is that the pricing that your providers give you or your insurance isn't based on what the actual cost of those products and services are, but rather what will make your provider the most money. It's called the "chargemaster" for a reason.

You do not get to set the pricing anymore than you would be able to tell me I would make or paint you a master piece at the price you wanna pay.

So basically, you are blindly accepting the pricing your provider gives you. In fact, you're probably paying above the pricing in your providers chargemaster, if you have no insurance, because how are you possibly going to bargain with a major, massive, corporate provider all by your lonesome. So what they do is make you think you're getting a deal, when you're probably paying far more than even your insurance would.

If the drug companies charge too much for their shit people do not have to buy it.

Well that's just fucking stupid. The drug companies charge so much because Medicare isn't allowed to use its leverage as the largest purchaser of prescription drugs to bargain for cheaper prices. Now why would that happen? Simple; Conservatives love drug companies and did everything in their power to protect their profits. Hence, the restriction on Medicare in the Part-D legislation Conservatives voted for and passed in 2003.

Secondly, many of those prescriptions are vital to keep someone alive. Heart medication, etc. I agree that there are too many medications out there that people don't necessarily need. But there are also plenty of medications out there that people do need. If Medicare were allowed to collectively bargain for cheaper drugs, a lot of those problems would get solved very easily.

No one gets to force vaccines or any other product onto the public.

Not vaccinating yourself or your children is tantamount to biological warfare, and you are knowingly and deliberately sending either yourself or your child as a dirty bomb into society. I don't understand why on earth anyone would be opposed to vaccines. It's just pure stupidity, laziness, and recklessness at this point that ends up costing society in the long run. There is no reason you should voluntarily forego a vaccine for yourself or your child. It is pure stupidity to do that. And selfish. And inconsiderate. And dangerous.

And you do not get to require a license for anything other than standards in testing for competence. Vaccine makers and all other drug pushers are fully and totally liable for their product in a free market so attorneys will have to work for their money if they want to sue the doctors, hospitals, clinic or pharmaceutical giants and chemical companies.

So you are doing that thing again where you just spout random nonsense off the top of your head because you haven't given this subject enough serious thought. You need to review drug copyright laws and protections because it's clear you don't know what you're talking about. And BTW - Conservatives won't allow class action lawsuits against drugmakers. So one little person going against a billion-dollar company and their legal team...how do you think that's gonna turn out?

 

[The Derp]

That one works for me. Does it work for you?

It's what I've been saying this entire time. And you've been simultaneously denying and accepting it. Hence, the goalpost shifting.

Nope. Never said that. Not even once.
Allowing people to get "insurance" after they get sick isn't health insurance. It's welfare.

Of course, people don't just pick up insurance at any given time. They can't. Because insurance companies have this thing called "enrollment periods". For plans offered on the Obamacare Exchanges, that period runs October through January. Once the period ends, you cannot enroll in coverage. So someone getting sick and then getting insurance isn't something that can even happen. This is what I'm talking about when I say you don't know what health insurance is, don't know what insurance companies do, and don't know how any of it relates to delivery of health care.

No. My definition has been consistent, whether you're too stupid to understand it or not.

No, it hasn't because you haven't given it any thought, haven't bothered to learn anything about it, and don't understand how it works.

Every time I started a new job, I got the opportunity to get new insurance, immediately..

Yeah, you know why??? Because your employer buys a group plan. You can't buy insurance individually after open enrollment periods. So what you were saying, that people wait until they get sick to buy insurance, isn't something that can even happen given how individuals buy insurance in the marketplace. So you deliberately conflate employer-provided, group insurance plans with individual insurance. That's because you don't know what health insurance is, don't know what insurance companies do, and don't know how any of it relates to delivery of health care.

Wrong. I say Obamacare, where you can buy a policy after you're sick, is not insurance.
The insurance we had before Obamacare fucked things up was actual insurance.

Again, you can't do that. You can't buy an Obamacare exchange plan at any given time. You can only enroll in those plans during the Open Enrollment period. So thanks for proving to me that you don't even know the first thing about that which you speak. But that's really your M.O.; you run your mouth, then have to walk everything back later. Pathetic.

 

[The Derp]

Medicare also doesn't pay out as much as Aetna does to your healthcare providers...which means you owe the majority of the bill.

Yeah, you know why? Because Aetna forces you to pay higher premiums. So that's why they reimburse more. So if we raised the Medicare tax, Medicare could reimburse more.

 

[The Derp]

Aetna covers more AND pays out more in reimbursents.

Because you're paying a shitload more in premiums for it. If you raised the Medicare Tax, Medicare could cover more and pay out more.