Debate Now Do Racism, Conservatism, and Low I.Q. Go Hand in Hand?

[WelfareQueen]

The thread is incredibly intolerant and offensive. Similarly bogus studies could be posted regarding minorities or women involving I.Q.

The intolerance and bigotry on display is staggering.

I would again ask the OP for the third time: If he believes I.Q. differences exist based solely on political affiliation, than logic follows he must also believe racial and gender differences in I.Q. are also valid as many studies indicate.

If this is simply a troll thread (which it is) then this very valid question will continue to be ignored.

If the desire is to truly discuss the possibility of I.Q. differences between group then the question will be answered. Let's see how it goes.

 

[Roadrunner]

The thread is incredibly intolerant and offensive. Similarly bogus studies could be posted regarding minorities or women involving I.Q.

The intolerance and bigotry on display is staggering.

I would again ask the OP for the third time: If he believes I.Q. differences exist based solely on political affiliation, than logic follows he must also believe racial and gender differences in I.Q. are also valid as many studies indicate.

If this is simply a troll thread (which it is) then this very valid question will continue to be ignored.

If the desire is to truly discuss the possibility of I.Q. differences between group then the question will be answered. Let's see how it goes.

I think there is strong evidence that some racial groups have higher median IQs than others.

That does not make me a racist.

If I said "kill all the Jews" because they are too crafty, that would make me a racist.

Basic human rights and dignity are due to all, regardless of the median IQ of their race, or the color of their skin, or their inability to jump, dance or keep up a beat.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

My respect for the OP has reached a new level

It should. I published a topic that can really be debated and I even indicated that there are ways to successfully rebut the information.

Stop being emotional and learn to debate.

Democrats are the party of the KKK, Tuskegee experiments, black eugenics (aka: planned parenthood), Jim crow, slavery and " I'll have them ******* voting Democrat for the next 200 years"

Its pathetic and laughable that you say conservatives are racists. I can't debate a flat out lie

 

[Statistikhengst]

Since racism is a child of "fear" and ignorance creates fear, I tend to agree that they go hand in hand.

"Since racism is a child of "fear'" is nothing but opinion.

Since Mertex is the typical Liberal, he considers his opinion as fact and demands you do the same.

That is not the purpose of this thread and your posting is not in accordance with the rules of the SDZ, either.

Take the time to actually READ the information in the OP, then see if you can find a way to rebut what it being said.

Really, learning to debate in a civil way is possible.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Is I.Q. also related to race and gender? The question the OP raises is equally bigoted and offensive....not to mention ignorant.

I am still waiting for a definition of racism.

It certainly is NOT "disagreeing with Progressives".

It is the belief that one group is superior to another in regard to basic human rights, in my opinion.

To others, it is disagreeing with the Ferguson Grand Jury and the Justice Department in the Michael Brown death.

You have made a valid point, since racism is mentioned in the OP title. But that is not the only aspect of the OP, and the data from the studies, which can be rebutted in a cogent way, is really the crux of this all.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Intelligent people understand principles. They deal in concepts and wish to understand the whys of things. Unintelligent people do not. They simply conform to expectations.

As far as I'm concerned, there is little difference in intelligence between the right wing fundies and/or racists of the world and the left wing practitioners of political correctness. It is all about tribe with either group rather than any intelligent analysis of principles.

It's an interesting opinion you have, and certainly one worth hearing, but more importantly, I keep pointing to a detail that a lot of people are missing - namely, that it behooves those who wish to debate this thread to actually read ALL of the data from the links, for there is indeed a way to rebut the data.

I never even once said that I agree with the studies. I just put the information out there.

 

[Statistikhengst]

It doesn't take to many IQ points to make everything a race issue, whites BAD, blacks GOOD. UGG. Cheap shots and ill thought out comments. Try again. Blacks need to try harder, not blame harder. Been there done that.

the word "black" was not in the OP, not even once. You realize there are more races than the White race and the Black race, right?

Furthermore, there are more issues than this in the OP and it would have behooved you to have actually taken the time to read the DATA to find a way to rebut it.

All you have done right now is to issue a blanket statement without any factual backup, which means that at this time, you argument has neither hands nor feet. I wish to encourage you to actually READ the links. The beginning to debate is also the willingness to read or digest things that we may personally find undesirable, but only armed with knowledge can one debate.

 

[Statistikhengst]

A number of studies say "yes", but of course, the "devil is in the details", so then again, it could all be smoke and mirrors. Or, maybe not? Hmmmm......

Do Racism Conservatism and Low I.Q. Go Hand in Hand Psychology Today

Low IQ Conservative Beliefs Linked to Prejudice Racism Bias Politics Right-Wing and Left-Wing Ideology

Intelligence Study Links Low I.Q. To Prejudice Racism Conservatism

Multiple Scientific Studies Confirm Extreme Conservatism Linked to Racism Low I.Q. Americans Against the Tea Party

Those FOUR links refer to an intensive study done by Hodson, & Busseri, in 2012, called: "Bright minds and dark attitudes: Lower cognitive ability predicts greater prejudice through right-wing ideology and low intergroup contact." It was published in Psychological Science, 23, 187-195.


And this study:

Are Conservatives Dumber Than Liberals - Reason.com

(though that study does not run along the same lines exactly)


And this study, from 2009-2010:

Study Are Liberals Smarter Than Conservatives - TIME





(that link is an excellent case for finding the really necessary stuff in the details... hint, hint...)

And a completely different study from 2013, actually comparing the brain sizes of people of different political orientations:

The Surprising Brain Differences Between Democrats and Republicans Mother Jones

and the direct links:

Fear as a Disposition and an Emotional State A Genetic and Environmental Approach to Out-Group Political Preferences - Hatemi - 2013 - American Journal of Political Science - Wiley Online Library

PLOS ONE Red Brain Blue Brain Evaluative Processes Differ in Democrats and Republicans

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, before anyone get's his or her dander up, go read the links. You will be surprised at the plethora of information out there, and a lot of it can be rebutted - you just need to know where to look. I have DELIBERATELY not quoted anything from the links yet, to allow others to first read from start to finish and digest the material at hand.

PS: I live in a time zone that is 6 hours ahead of New York City, so some responses on my part will be delayed.

RULES FOR THIS DISCUSSION:

1. No ad hominems. No flaming, no getting personal, no insults. Stick to the topic, not the person.
2. Dictionary definitions will prevail.
3. Claiming that you are speaking on behalf of others is absolutely forbidden.
4. What you post is de facto your opinion unless substantiated with credible links.
5. When you are asked to provide a credible link to substantiate your position you must do so or you automatically forfeit your position.
6. Links can be contested and if they can be shown to be biased they will be discounted. For this reason I already provided neutral links directly to the core data for a number of studies under the links of websites that one side may consider partisan.
7. If you are going to invoke partisan terminology then be prepared to have it called out for what it is.
8. No one is exempt from legitimate criticism - including the OP.
9. Serious debate also means taking time to formulate an answer - so this should be a slow, thoughtful thread. I don't expect a response in the first 60 minutes after the thread goes up. You will need at least that much time to actually absorb the material needed to successfully debate this statistical issue.
10. Have some fun while you are at it. That's an order. Life is short, enjoy what you do.

-Stat

I say no, they do not go hand in hand.

There have been far too many intelligent racists, from Hitler, to Stalin to Hugo Black and Robert Byrd.

Ok, that's a start, and also a point well taken. This is the kind of discourse I have been looking for. You could back that up with more information about those particular individuals, but you took the time to make a point, stay on topic and actually address the issue, which gets a big thumbs up from me. Continue...

 

[Statistikhengst]

Intelligent people understand principles. They deal in concepts and wish to understand the whys of things. Unintelligent people do not. They simply conform to expectations.

As far as I'm concerned, there is little difference in intelligence between the right wing fundies and/or racists of the world and the left wing practitioners of political correctness. It is all about tribe with either group rather than any intelligent analysis of principles.

Apparently we are not going to get much intelligent analysis here.

Not if all you can do is avoid responding to questions asked you when you make a comment. If you don't believe it is from fear, than at least tell us why you think there is racism. I think it could become a very interesting debate.

I am multi-tasking.

Are we discussing where racism comes from, or, the intelligence of racists?

The title of the OP is "Do racism, conservatism and low IQ go hand in hand? I claimed that since racism is born out of fear, and fear comes from ignorance, that I believe they do. I believe there are some liberals with low IQ's that although they embrace liberal ideas are still racist, but most of the racist people I have ever met are mostly conservative in political ideology and not well educated. I believe their lack of knowledge makes them fearful that people of other races are going to take away something that belongs to them

This is also a strong point, could be backed up with more than personal observation. But at least you and Roadrunner are actually debating and instead of attacking each other, are actually broaching the topic. This also gets a big thumbs up from me.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Blacks are quite capable of the same filth as whites when it comes to hate. Blacks can and should grow up out of this, but instead, they embrace it and use it as a tool. Other groups like the Vietnamese, they got past all this, they don't leverage their race as an excuse not to thrive. THEY actually "overcome" and thrive none the less. Blacks? Whah whah, white racism is holding us back....or variations on that theme. I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO tired of that bullshit.

You say "Blacks are quite capable of the same filth as whites" but then say "Blacks can and should grow up out of this".

Shouldn't whites have that same responsibility?

Whites are the base cause of ALL racism and we have at least as much responsibility to fix it as do other races.

Be that as it may, the question put forth by the OP is whether racism and low IQ go hand in hand and all evidence indicates that its the least educated and most ignorant among us who feels blind hatred based on skin color.

Some good points. However, I disagree with your third sentence. This is not just a white-black thing at all.

 

[Statistikhengst]

My respect for the OP has reached a new level

It should. I published a topic that can really be debated and I even indicated that there are ways to successfully rebut the information.

Stop being emotional and learn to debate.

I tried and Mertex called me snarky.

I cried all night.

Seeing this thread on the board again is bringing it all back so painfully.

I believe you will survive the ordeal.

At least you and Mertex have taken the time to actively debate one another and by and large, it has been civil.

BOTH of you have made some interesting points. Progress!

 

[Statistikhengst]

My respect for the OP has reached a new level

It should. I published a topic that can really be debated and I even indicated that there are ways to successfully rebut the information.

Stop being emotional and learn to debate.

Democrats are the party of the KKK, Tuskegee experiments, black eugenics (aka: planned parenthood), Jim crow, slavery and " I'll have them ******* voting Democrat for the next 200 years"

Its pathetic and laughable that you say conservatives are racists. I can't debate a flat out lie

This is where lack of discernment has really hurt your argument, for you see, CrusaderFrank , "I" have never claimed that Conservatives are racists. I have cited a number of studies by linking to them and to make it a topic for lively debate. I even wrote in the OP that there are ways to rebut those studies. I never once personally chimed in on my feelings about it, ergo what you describe as a lie is not one.

I am sticking to the topic. You got personal. Pay attention and learn to debate.

 

[Statistikhengst]

The thread is incredibly intolerant and offensive. Similarly bogus studies could be posted regarding minorities or women involving I.Q.

The intolerance and bigotry on display is staggering.

I would again ask the OP for the third time: If he believes I.Q. differences exist based solely on political affiliation, than logic follows he must also believe racial and gender differences in I.Q. are also valid as many studies indicate.

If this is simply a troll thread (which it is) then this very valid question will continue to be ignored.

If the desire is to truly discuss the possibility of I.Q. differences between group then the question will be answered. Let's see how it goes.

I think there is strong evidence that some racial groups have higher median IQs than others.

That does not make me a racist.

If I said "kill all the Jews" because they are too crafty, that would make me a racist.

Basic human rights and dignity are due to all, regardless of the median IQ of their race, or the color of their skin, or their inability to jump, dance or keep up a beat.

Yes, in very general terms. Also, there are some traits that certain cultures exhibit, for instance, Asian have the ability to concentrate on minutae, which is why there are so any Asian concert pianists and world class violinists relative to other cultures, but this does not mean that all Asians possess this ability.

You last sentence is a real winner. That is a great thought.

 

[Statistikhengst]

So, it's going on 11 PM my time, I will shortly be signing off. Since no one has actually quoted the data itself, which really is the core of the OP, I will start dropping some breadcrumbs tomorrow....

 

[Carla_Danger]

Is I.Q. also related to race and gender? The question the OP raises is equally bigoted and offensive....not to mention ignorant.

I am still waiting for a definition of racism.

It certainly is NOT "disagreeing with Progressives".

It is the belief that one group is superior to another in regard to basic human rights, in my opinion.

To others, it is disagreeing with the Ferguson Grand Jury and the Justice Department in the Michael Brown death.

Why are you waiting for a definition of racism? It clearly states in the OP that dictionary definitions will prevail.

Here you go...

racism
noun rac·ism \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm
: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race

: the belief that some races of people are better than others


Full Definition of RACISM

1
: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2
: racial prejudice or discrimination

Racism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

 

[WelfareQueen]

Is I.Q. also related to race and gender? The question the OP raises is equally bigoted and offensive....not to mention ignorant.

I am still waiting for a definition of racism.

It certainly is NOT "disagreeing with Progressives".

It is the belief that one group is superior to another in regard to basic human rights, in my opinion.

To others, it is disagreeing with the Ferguson Grand Jury and the Justice Department in the Michael Brown death.

You have made a valid point, since racism is mentioned in the OP title. But that is not the only aspect of the OP, and the data from the studies, which can be rebutted in a cogent way, is really the crux of this all.

You keep avoiding answering the basic question: If I.Q. is somehow related to political affiliation by the same logic why cannot it also be related to race or gender?

There are many studies which say as much.

I will keep asking the question until it is answered honestly. Otherwise, this is nothing more than a flat out troll thread.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Is I.Q. also related to race and gender? The question the OP raises is equally bigoted and offensive....not to mention ignorant.

I am still waiting for a definition of racism.

It certainly is NOT "disagreeing with Progressives".

It is the belief that one group is superior to another in regard to basic human rights, in my opinion.

To others, it is disagreeing with the Ferguson Grand Jury and the Justice Department in the Michael Brown death.

You have made a valid point, since racism is mentioned in the OP title. But that is not the only aspect of the OP, and the data from the studies, which can be rebutted in a cogent way, is really the crux of this all.

You keep avoiding answering the basic question: If I.Q. is somehow related to political affiliation by the same logic why cannot it also be related to race or gender?

There are many studies which say as much.

I will keep asking the question until it is answered honestly. Otherwise, this is nothing more than a flat out troll thread.

Where are these credible studies of yours? I'd like a link.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Is I.Q. also related to race and gender? The question the OP raises is equally bigoted and offensive....not to mention ignorant.

I am still waiting for a definition of racism.

It certainly is NOT "disagreeing with Progressives".

It is the belief that one group is superior to another in regard to basic human rights, in my opinion.

To others, it is disagreeing with the Ferguson Grand Jury and the Justice Department in the Michael Brown death.

You have made a valid point, since racism is mentioned in the OP title. But that is not the only aspect of the OP, and the data from the studies, which can be rebutted in a cogent way, is really the crux of this all.

You keep avoiding answering the basic question: If I.Q. is somehow related to political affiliation by the same logic why cannot it also be related to race or gender?

There are many studies which say as much.

I will keep asking the question until it is answered honestly. Otherwise, this is nothing more than a flat out troll thread.

Where are these credible studies of yours? I'd like a link.

Google it. There are thousands. But since you ask....


If I.Q. is somehow related to political affiliation by the same logic why cannot it also be related to race or gender?

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

 

[WelfareQueen]

Wonder why no libs will address this question?


If I.Q. is somehow related to political affiliation by the same logic why cannot it also be related to race or gender?