Do We Need Muslims On Our Team?

[boedicca]

I'm beginning to feel like Islam is the abusive husband to Infidels. The battered wives are afraid to speak up or make him angry, so his increasingly violent behavior is excused and tolerated.

Unless Islam goes through a modern reformation in which politics are separated from spiritual beliefs, then I don't see how peaceful assimilation is possible. It's never happened.

Islam is politics.

Yes, and that's why the "religion of peace" nonsense is a Trojan Horse. From Sweden:


Stickers calling for democracy to be replaced with Islam and for women who do not wear a veil to be raped have appeared in public places in Sweden. They have been reported to the police.
Pictures of the stickers, which have been stuck to objects on streets in Nybro, Småland, have been circulating on social media.

One of the stickers reads, in English: “Women who don’t wear a headscarf are asking to be raped.” Another reads: “No democracy. We just want Islam,” Fria Tider has reported....

Wear a Headscarf Or Be Raped, Swedish Women Warned

Isn fact, political isn't enough to describe it. It tells muslims how to regulate property, taxes and even personal hygiene. It is a way of life.

It's a form of Totalitarianism / Authoritarianism in which individuals are subordinate to the state.

 

[Coyote]

I think to defeat it, you have to look at it as not a problem solvable by military means alone. There are multiple causes - political instability, income inequality, corruption, social unrest, lack of education, lack of opportunities that can lead to increased radicalization. When a state is failing, or can not provide for or protect it's people then they turn to tribal, ethnic or religious indentificaiton rather than national to survive. Religious furvor increases in bad times, it's easy for extremists to make the case that outside devils are the cause of all these problems and unite people behind them because the state can't do that. That's why a big part of any solution must come from the Muslim communities and especially those countries but it isn't easy.

I was listening to NPR while driving home from work last night and they had a story about Egypt, and it's population crisis. I didn't realize Egypt was the most populous country in the Middle East. It's economy is a wreck and it's has an abysmally low rate of literacy. In fact the economy was one of the driving factors in the ouster of Mubarrek. Without education, with out the means to cllimb out of poverty and improve your situation - how can you fight extremism that makes so many promises that if you will be a "good Muslim" (according to their definition) - everything will get better?

and the religion itself. Why do people tend to forget about the RELIGION ITSELF. Im sorry, but by the book, it is full of violence.

Yes, but so is the Bible, yet Christians by and large moved beyond it when they became more secular. There is no reason, based on text alone, that Islam can not do the same since the Qu'ran contains many passages on peace, tolerance etc. and the means to put violent passages into context (as is done by many today with the Bible). The culturers have to move in that direction.

"but so is the bible" yes, and how many savage Christians are there strapping bombs to their chest?
Look, you cant have an honest discussion about islam and always bring up Christianity. FFS, we are talking about ISLAM.
Yes, the cultures have to move in that direction. That's why I said it probably needs to start from within.

Did you miss what I said? Let me repeat it: "...yet Christians by and large moved beyond it when they became more secular. There is no reason, based on text alone, that Islam can not do the same since the Qu'ran contains many passages on peace, tolerance etc. and the means to put violent passages into context (as is done by many today with the Bible). "

If you are going to bring up RELIGOUS TEXT - it's perfectly reasonable to bring up comparisons to other religious texts - especially that of the largest world religion, which has similar levels of violence.

If you want to discuss islam with me, can we please discuss islam?

Sure. But I'm not going to discuss it in a vacuum. If it's relevant to bring in other religions - for example if you're trying to make a case that Islam's text is uniquely violent, then pointing out that it ISN'T unique requires comparing.

 

[Coyote]

I'm beginning to feel like Islam is the abusive husband to Infidels. The battered wives are afraid to speak up or make him angry, so his increasingly violent behavior is excused and tolerated.

Unless Islam goes through a modern reformation in which politics are separated from spiritual beliefs, then I don't see how peaceful assimilation is possible. It's never happened.

Islam is politics.

Yes, and that's why the "religion of peace" nonsense is a Trojan Horse. From Sweden:


Stickers calling for democracy to be replaced with Islam and for women who do not wear a veil to be raped have appeared in public places in Sweden. They have been reported to the police.
Pictures of the stickers, which have been stuck to objects on streets in Nybro, Småland, have been circulating on social media.

One of the stickers reads, in English: “Women who don’t wear a headscarf are asking to be raped.” Another reads: “No democracy. We just want Islam,” Fria Tider has reported....

Wear a Headscarf Or Be Raped, Swedish Women Warned

Isn fact, political isn't enough to describe it. It tells muslims how to regulate property, taxes and even personal hygiene. It is a way of life.

And how many of those are from fringe groups equivalent to the Westboro Baptists?

Observant Jews follow similar religious laws regulating their lives. So what?

 

[TNHarley]

and the religion itself. Why do people tend to forget about the RELIGION ITSELF. Im sorry, but by the book, it is full of violence.

Yes, but so is the Bible, yet Christians by and large moved beyond it when they became more secular. There is no reason, based on text alone, that Islam can not do the same since the Qu'ran contains many passages on peace, tolerance etc. and the means to put violent passages into context (as is done by many today with the Bible). The culturers have to move in that direction.

"but so is the bible" yes, and how many savage Christians are there strapping bombs to their chest?
Look, you cant have an honest discussion about islam and always bring up Christianity. FFS, we are talking about ISLAM.
Yes, the cultures have to move in that direction. That's why I said it probably needs to start from within.

Did you miss what I said? Let me repeat it: "...yet Christians by and large moved beyond it when they became more secular. There is no reason, based on text alone, that Islam can not do the same since the Qu'ran contains many passages on peace, tolerance etc. and the means to put violent passages into context (as is done by many today with the Bible). "

If you are going to bring up RELIGOUS TEXT - it's perfectly reasonable to bring up comparisons to other religious texts - especially that of the largest world religion, which has similar levels of violence.

If you want to discuss islam with me, can we please discuss islam?

Sure. But I'm not going to discuss it in a vacuum. If it's relevant to bring in other religions - for example if you're trying to make a case that Islam's text is uniquely violent, then pointing out that it ISN'T unique requires comparing.

I didn't say that, though

 

[TNHarley]

I'm beginning to feel like Islam is the abusive husband to Infidels. The battered wives are afraid to speak up or make him angry, so his increasingly violent behavior is excused and tolerated.

Unless Islam goes through a modern reformation in which politics are separated from spiritual beliefs, then I don't see how peaceful assimilation is possible. It's never happened.

Islam is politics.

Yes, and that's why the "religion of peace" nonsense is a Trojan Horse. From Sweden:


Stickers calling for democracy to be replaced with Islam and for women who do not wear a veil to be raped have appeared in public places in Sweden. They have been reported to the police.
Pictures of the stickers, which have been stuck to objects on streets in Nybro, Småland, have been circulating on social media.

One of the stickers reads, in English: “Women who don’t wear a headscarf are asking to be raped.” Another reads: “No democracy. We just want Islam,” Fria Tider has reported....

Wear a Headscarf Or Be Raped, Swedish Women Warned

Isn fact, political isn't enough to describe it. It tells muslims how to regulate property, taxes and even personal hygiene. It is a way of life.

And how many of those are from fringe groups equivalent to the Westboro Baptists?

Observant Jews follow similar religious laws regulating their lives. So what?

So what, what? I was just making a statement.
LOL 2 different religions in one post about a totally different religion. I cant do this with you.

 

[Coyote]

Yes, but so is the Bible, yet Christians by and large moved beyond it when they became more secular. There is no reason, based on text alone, that Islam can not do the same since the Qu'ran contains many passages on peace, tolerance etc. and the means to put violent passages into context (as is done by many today with the Bible). The culturers have to move in that direction.

"but so is the bible" yes, and how many savage Christians are there strapping bombs to their chest?
Look, you cant have an honest discussion about islam and always bring up Christianity. FFS, we are talking about ISLAM.
Yes, the cultures have to move in that direction. That's why I said it probably needs to start from within.

Did you miss what I said? Let me repeat it: "...yet Christians by and large moved beyond it when they became more secular. There is no reason, based on text alone, that Islam can not do the same since the Qu'ran contains many passages on peace, tolerance etc. and the means to put violent passages into context (as is done by many today with the Bible). "

If you are going to bring up RELIGOUS TEXT - it's perfectly reasonable to bring up comparisons to other religious texts - especially that of the largest world religion, which has similar levels of violence.

If you want to discuss islam with me, can we please discuss islam?

Sure. But I'm not going to discuss it in a vacuum. If it's relevant to bring in other religions - for example if you're trying to make a case that Islam's text is uniquely violent, then pointing out that it ISN'T unique requires comparing.

I didn't say that, though

That's kind of weird - sure seemed like you did since everything I said to you is part of discussing Islam and you seemed to imply I wasn't. Which is it?

 

[TNHarley]

"but so is the bible" yes, and how many savage Christians are there strapping bombs to their chest?
Look, you cant have an honest discussion about islam and always bring up Christianity. FFS, we are talking about ISLAM.
Yes, the cultures have to move in that direction. That's why I said it probably needs to start from within.

Did you miss what I said? Let me repeat it: "...yet Christians by and large moved beyond it when they became more secular. There is no reason, based on text alone, that Islam can not do the same since the Qu'ran contains many passages on peace, tolerance etc. and the means to put violent passages into context (as is done by many today with the Bible). "

If you are going to bring up RELIGOUS TEXT - it's perfectly reasonable to bring up comparisons to other religious texts - especially that of the largest world religion, which has similar levels of violence.

If you want to discuss islam with me, can we please discuss islam?

Sure. But I'm not going to discuss it in a vacuum. If it's relevant to bring in other religions - for example if you're trying to make a case that Islam's text is uniquely violent, then pointing out that it ISN'T unique requires comparing.

I didn't say that, though

That's kind of weird - sure seemed like you did since everything I said to you is part of discussing Islam and you seemed to imply I wasn't. Which is it?

I didn't say it was unique. Have a good weekend!

 

[Rocko]

I believe that we need to enlist the aid of Muslims the world over in order to put an end to violent Muslim extremism.

You?

You're asking the wrong question. The question you should be asking is do muslims need us on thier team to combat muslim extremism. Muslims should be leading the fight to combat muslim extremism all over the worlf, not just ISIS. But they are not. While i do agree that only a faction of muslims are terrorists, i also believe that most of the rest of muslims don't do enough to fight them and challenge their warped ideology. It shouldn't be up to us to convince them, and it is something I don't think we can do frankly.

 

[boedicca]

I'm beginning to feel like Islam is the abusive husband to Infidels. The battered wives are afraid to speak up or make him angry, so his increasingly violent behavior is excused and tolerated.

Unless Islam goes through a modern reformation in which politics are separated from spiritual beliefs, then I don't see how peaceful assimilation is possible. It's never happened.

Islam is politics.

Yes, and that's why the "religion of peace" nonsense is a Trojan Horse. From Sweden:


Stickers calling for democracy to be replaced with Islam and for women who do not wear a veil to be raped have appeared in public places in Sweden. They have been reported to the police.
Pictures of the stickers, which have been stuck to objects on streets in Nybro, Småland, have been circulating on social media.

One of the stickers reads, in English: “Women who don’t wear a headscarf are asking to be raped.” Another reads: “No democracy. We just want Islam,” Fria Tider has reported....

Wear a Headscarf Or Be Raped, Swedish Women Warned

Isn fact, political isn't enough to describe it. It tells muslims how to regulate property, taxes and even personal hygiene. It is a way of life.

And how many of those are from fringe groups equivalent to the Westboro Baptists?

Observant Jews follow similar religious laws regulating their lives. So what?

There is a big difference between personally observing religious practices and trying to replace the Constitution with Religious Law.

 

[Coyote]

I'm beginning to feel like Islam is the abusive husband to Infidels. The battered wives are afraid to speak up or make him angry, so his increasingly violent behavior is excused and tolerated.

Unless Islam goes through a modern reformation in which politics are separated from spiritual beliefs, then I don't see how peaceful assimilation is possible. It's never happened.

Islam is politics.

Yes, and that's why the "religion of peace" nonsense is a Trojan Horse. From Sweden:


Stickers calling for democracy to be replaced with Islam and for women who do not wear a veil to be raped have appeared in public places in Sweden. They have been reported to the police.
Pictures of the stickers, which have been stuck to objects on streets in Nybro, Småland, have been circulating on social media.

One of the stickers reads, in English: “Women who don’t wear a headscarf are asking to be raped.” Another reads: “No democracy. We just want Islam,” Fria Tider has reported....

Wear a Headscarf Or Be Raped, Swedish Women Warned

Isn fact, political isn't enough to describe it. It tells muslims how to regulate property, taxes and even personal hygiene. It is a way of life.

And how many of those are from fringe groups equivalent to the Westboro Baptists?

Observant Jews follow similar religious laws regulating their lives. So what?

So what, what? I was just making a statement.
LOL 2 different religions in one post about a totally different religion. I cant do this with you.

You can't handle comparisons and contrasts with other religions in a discussion about religion?

The thing is - people seem to have problems with one religion, and point things out as if it's somehow unique to that religion, then can't handle it when it's pointed out that it isn't.

So....let me try again.

"Isn fact, political isn't enough to describe it. It tells muslims how to regulate property, taxes and even personal hygiene. It is a way of life"

So what?

As to the first part - are those examples you gave representative of large groups or - fringe groups? Example: someone always posts a link to a fringe group with a handful of supporters (that isn't supported by the nation's Muslim community) that is trying to create a "caliphate" in Sweden (I think it's Sweden). I'm not allowed to make comparisons to other religions so we'll leave it at that.

 

[Coyote]

I'm beginning to feel like Islam is the abusive husband to Infidels. The battered wives are afraid to speak up or make him angry, so his increasingly violent behavior is excused and tolerated.

Unless Islam goes through a modern reformation in which politics are separated from spiritual beliefs, then I don't see how peaceful assimilation is possible. It's never happened.

Islam is politics.

Yes, and that's why the "religion of peace" nonsense is a Trojan Horse. From Sweden:


Stickers calling for democracy to be replaced with Islam and for women who do not wear a veil to be raped have appeared in public places in Sweden. They have been reported to the police.
Pictures of the stickers, which have been stuck to objects on streets in Nybro, Småland, have been circulating on social media.

One of the stickers reads, in English: “Women who don’t wear a headscarf are asking to be raped.” Another reads: “No democracy. We just want Islam,” Fria Tider has reported....

Wear a Headscarf Or Be Raped, Swedish Women Warned

Isn fact, political isn't enough to describe it. It tells muslims how to regulate property, taxes and even personal hygiene. It is a way of life.

And how many of those are from fringe groups equivalent to the Westboro Baptists?

Observant Jews follow similar religious laws regulating their lives. So what?

There is a big difference between personally observing religious practices and trying to replace the Constitution with Religious Law.

Of course there is.

And fortunately for us, there are few religious people trying to replace the Constitution with Religious Law, and the mainstream of their religion relegates them to the Loony Bin.

 

[Coyote]

Did you miss what I said? Let me repeat it: "...yet Christians by and large moved beyond it when they became more secular. There is no reason, based on text alone, that Islam can not do the same since the Qu'ran contains many passages on peace, tolerance etc. and the means to put violent passages into context (as is done by many today with the Bible). "

If you are going to bring up RELIGOUS TEXT - it's perfectly reasonable to bring up comparisons to other religious texts - especially that of the largest world religion, which has similar levels of violence.

If you want to discuss islam with me, can we please discuss islam?

Sure. But I'm not going to discuss it in a vacuum. If it's relevant to bring in other religions - for example if you're trying to make a case that Islam's text is uniquely violent, then pointing out that it ISN'T unique requires comparing.

I didn't say that, though

That's kind of weird - sure seemed like you did since everything I said to you is part of discussing Islam and you seemed to imply I wasn't. Which is it?

I didn't say it was unique. Have a good weekend!

pffffft.

 

[TNHarley]

arguing strawmen with a terrorist lover? No thanks.

 

[boedicca]

Islam is politics.

Yes, and that's why the "religion of peace" nonsense is a Trojan Horse. From Sweden:


Stickers calling for democracy to be replaced with Islam and for women who do not wear a veil to be raped have appeared in public places in Sweden. They have been reported to the police.
Pictures of the stickers, which have been stuck to objects on streets in Nybro, Småland, have been circulating on social media.

One of the stickers reads, in English: “Women who don’t wear a headscarf are asking to be raped.” Another reads: “No democracy. We just want Islam,” Fria Tider has reported....

Wear a Headscarf Or Be Raped, Swedish Women Warned

Isn fact, political isn't enough to describe it. It tells muslims how to regulate property, taxes and even personal hygiene. It is a way of life.

And how many of those are from fringe groups equivalent to the Westboro Baptists?

Observant Jews follow similar religious laws regulating their lives. So what?

There is a big difference between personally observing religious practices and trying to replace the Constitution with Religious Law.

Of course there is.

And fortunately for us, there are few religious people trying to replace the Constitution with Religious Law, and the mainstream of their religion relegates them to the Loony Bin.

Christianity went through a Reformation centuries ago. Islam has not...it is basically Medieval.

 

[Harry Dresden]

If the good Muslims so outnumber the bad why haven't they handled it? Are they pussies?

anyone who covers their face while they behead someone or talks big in front of the camera aint exactly a brave individual.......

 

[theHawk]

I believe that we need to enlist the aid of Muslims the world over in order to put an end to violent Muslim extremism.

You?

Good luck with that. Do us all a favor and go overseas to "enlist the aid of Muslims" to fight their own brothers that they support.