Do We Need Muslims On Our Team?

[Votto]

I believe that we need to enlist the aid of Muslims the world over in order to put an end to violent Muslim extremism.

You?

I think you will find that the most of the murders of Muslims are from fellow Muslims.

 

[TNHarley]

I mean, look at the love Europe showed those refugees and what they got in return..

I don't think any of these attacks are by refugees. The latest one is supposedly a French born man of Tunisian descent.

I was referring to rape and shit.

How many rapes actually occurred?

LOL are you frikkin serious?
How about Cologne for STARTERS?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I believe that we need to enlist the aid of Muslims the world over in order to put an end to violent Muslim extremism.

You?

No, they're not responsible for "Muslim extremism."

Just as Christians aren't responsible for "Christian extremism," and no one calls on Christians to address the problem.

When an otherwise thoughtful poster such as the OP falls prey to the notion that Muslims are somehow "collectively responsible" for terrorism is troubling indeed.

 

[TNHarley]

i think the only way to defeat it is to allow a counter active group by more middle of the road muslims....

I think to defeat it, you have to look at it as not a problem solvable by military means alone. There are multiple causes - political instability, income inequality, corruption, social unrest, lack of education, lack of opportunities that can lead to increased radicalization. When a state is failing, or can not provide for or protect it's people then they turn to tribal, ethnic or religious indentificaiton rather than national to survive. Religious furvor increases in bad times, it's easy for extremists to make the case that outside devils are the cause of all these problems and unite people behind them because the state can't do that. That's why a big part of any solution must come from the Muslim communities and especially those countries but it isn't easy.

I was listening to NPR while driving home from work last night and they had a story about Egypt, and it's population crisis. I didn't realize Egypt was the most populous country in the Middle East. It's economy is a wreck and it's has an abysmally low rate of literacy. In fact the economy was one of the driving factors in the ouster of Mubarrek. Without education, with out the means to cllimb out of poverty and improve your situation - how can you fight extremism that makes so many promises that if you will be a "good Muslim" (according to their definition) - everything will get better?

and the religion itself. Why do people tend to forget about the RELIGION ITSELF. Im sorry, but by the book, it is full of violence.

I don't understand why this is so funny. Do you wackos really think islam is peaceful? LMAO yeah, maybe to other muslims...

 

[Coyote]

i think the only way to defeat it is to allow a counter active group by more middle of the road muslims....

I think to defeat it, you have to look at it as not a problem solvable by military means alone. There are multiple causes - political instability, income inequality, corruption, social unrest, lack of education, lack of opportunities that can lead to increased radicalization. When a state is failing, or can not provide for or protect it's people then they turn to tribal, ethnic or religious indentificaiton rather than national to survive. Religious furvor increases in bad times, it's easy for extremists to make the case that outside devils are the cause of all these problems and unite people behind them because the state can't do that. That's why a big part of any solution must come from the Muslim communities and especially those countries but it isn't easy.

I was listening to NPR while driving home from work last night and they had a story about Egypt, and it's population crisis. I didn't realize Egypt was the most populous country in the Middle East. It's economy is a wreck and it's has an abysmally low rate of literacy. In fact the economy was one of the driving factors in the ouster of Mubarrek. Without education, with out the means to cllimb out of poverty and improve your situation - how can you fight extremism that makes so many promises that if you will be a "good Muslim" (according to their definition) - everything will get better?

and the religion itself. Why do people tend to forget about the RELIGION ITSELF. Im sorry, but by the book, it is full of violence.

Yes, but so is the Bible, yet Christians by and large moved beyond it when they became more secular. There is no reason, based on text alone, that Islam can not do the same since the Qu'ran contains many passages on peace, tolerance etc. and the means to put violent passages into context (as is done by many today with the Bible). The culturers have to move in that direction.

"but so is the bible" yes, and how many savage Christians are there strapping bombs to their chest?
Look, you cant have an honest discussion about islam and always bring up Christianity. FFS, we are talking about ISLAM.
Yes, the cultures have to move in that direction. That's why I said it probably needs to start from within.

Did you miss what I said? Let me repeat it: "...yet Christians by and large moved beyond it when they became more secular. There is no reason, based on text alone, that Islam can not do the same since the Qu'ran contains many passages on peace, tolerance etc. and the means to put violent passages into context (as is done by many today with the Bible). "

If you are going to bring up RELIGOUS TEXT - it's perfectly reasonable to bring up comparisons to other religious texts - especially that of the largest world religion, which has similar levels of violence.

 

[Coyote]

I mean, look at the love Europe showed those refugees and what they got in return..

I don't think any of these attacks are by refugees. The latest one is supposedly a French born man of Tunisian descent.

I was referring to rape and shit.

How many rapes actually occurred?

LOL are you frikkin serious?
How about Cologne for STARTERS?

I've seen a shit load of "claims" and "testimonials" - how many actual rapes occurred? It reminds me of the witch hunts - lots of hysteria, lots of claims...but, how many actually occurred (or were witches) - how many arrests for example? How many confirmed rapes?

It's easy for stuff to spiral out of control into mass hysteria and false claims, particularly when scapegoating.

 

[TNHarley]

i think the only way to defeat it is to allow a counter active group by more middle of the road muslims....

I think to defeat it, you have to look at it as not a problem solvable by military means alone. There are multiple causes - political instability, income inequality, corruption, social unrest, lack of education, lack of opportunities that can lead to increased radicalization. When a state is failing, or can not provide for or protect it's people then they turn to tribal, ethnic or religious indentificaiton rather than national to survive. Religious furvor increases in bad times, it's easy for extremists to make the case that outside devils are the cause of all these problems and unite people behind them because the state can't do that. That's why a big part of any solution must come from the Muslim communities and especially those countries but it isn't easy.

I was listening to NPR while driving home from work last night and they had a story about Egypt, and it's population crisis. I didn't realize Egypt was the most populous country in the Middle East. It's economy is a wreck and it's has an abysmally low rate of literacy. In fact the economy was one of the driving factors in the ouster of Mubarrek. Without education, with out the means to cllimb out of poverty and improve your situation - how can you fight extremism that makes so many promises that if you will be a "good Muslim" (according to their definition) - everything will get better?

and the religion itself. Why do people tend to forget about the RELIGION ITSELF. Im sorry, but by the book, it is full of violence.

Yes, but so is the Bible, yet Christians by and large moved beyond it when they became more secular. There is no reason, based on text alone, that Islam can not do the same since the Qu'ran contains many passages on peace, tolerance etc. and the means to put violent passages into context (as is done by many today with the Bible). The culturers have to move in that direction.

"but so is the bible" yes, and how many savage Christians are there strapping bombs to their chest?
Look, you cant have an honest discussion about islam and always bring up Christianity. FFS, we are talking about ISLAM.
Yes, the cultures have to move in that direction. That's why I said it probably needs to start from within.

Did you miss what I said? Let me repeat it: "...yet Christians by and large moved beyond it when they became more secular. There is no reason, based on text alone, that Islam can not do the same since the Qu'ran contains many passages on peace, tolerance etc. and the means to put violent passages into context (as is done by many today with the Bible). "

If you are going to bring up RELIGOUS TEXT - it's perfectly reasonable to bring up comparisons to other religious texts - especially that of the largest world religion, which has similar levels of violence.

If you want to discuss islam with me, can we please discuss islam?

 

[Coyote]

I believe that we need to enlist the aid of Muslims the world over in order to put an end to violent Muslim extremism.

You?

No, they're not responsible for "Muslim extremism."

Just as Christians aren't responsible for "Christian extremism," and no one calls on Christians to address the problem.

When an otherwise thoughtful poster such as the OP falls prey to the notion that Muslims are somehow "collectively responsible" for terrorism is troubling indeed.

Saying that they need to be involved in any solution doesn't mean they are responsible. Responsibility lies with those who do it.

 

[TNHarley]

I mean, look at the love Europe showed those refugees and what they got in return..

I don't think any of these attacks are by refugees. The latest one is supposedly a French born man of Tunisian descent.

I was referring to rape and shit.

How many rapes actually occurred?

LOL are you frikkin serious?
How about Cologne for STARTERS?

I've seen a shit load of "claims" and "testimonials" - how many actual rapes occurred? It reminds me of the witch hunts - lots of hysteria, lots of claims...but, how many actually occurred (or were witches) - how many arrests for example? How many confirmed rapes?

It's easy for stuff to spiral out of control into mass hysteria and false claims, particularly when scapegoating.

Germany confirms asylum seekers are suspected in New Year’s Eve assaults
Leaked document says 2,000 men allegedly assaulted 1,200 German women on New Year’s Eve

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I think the first step to solving this savage bullshit, is for the muslims to do something about it. It would help is their fucking leaders didn't call for slaughter. Hell, I remember reading a fatwah from some loony dude that told Islamic children to stain the ground with blood.
It must start with islam first.

Your always going to have looney clerics and fatwahs - just like you have looney televangelists - but the main leaders of the faith are not calling for slaughter but condemning it.

Statements by Muslim leaders condemning terrorism
Top Islamic University, Muslim Leaders Condemn ISIS' Slaughter of Ethiopian Christians, Say It Goes 'Against Any Religion'
Muslims Around The World Condemn Paris Attacks Claimed By ISIS
ISIS will only 'drag you to hellfire': Imams warn French Muslims, saying suicide and slaughter not permitted in Islam | Christian News on Christian Today

A timely response by Michael Boldea written June 13th, 2016 (over a month ago).

Let’s be honest here. Cards on the table, nothing up our sleeve sort of honest. Christians simply don’t do this, and even the world knows it. The worst you can expect of any Christian, a true Christian regardless of their denomination, is telling someone that their lifestyle is sinful and that they need to repent. I cannot embrace, validate, or champion your lifestyle, but never once have I wished death upon anybody for it. Christians don’t want to see sinners dead. Christians want to see sinners saved. That is one of the marked differences between the Christian faith and Islam.

You can keep calling it a religion of peace if you like, you can keep insisting that all Muslims are peace loving peoples who embrace diversity and allow for differing viewpoints, but the bodies are starting to pile up, and eventually there will be so many that even the most ardent defender and proponent of the ‘religion of peace’ narrative will have to backpedal just a smidgen.

To those who thought that someone refusing to bake a cake, or cater a wedding amounted to a hate crime, may I humbly submit that this is what a hate crime really looks like, and it’s evil and insidious and cruel and final. Hurt feelings does not a hate crime make. Dead people does.

Loss of life is always a painful thing to witness, especially loss of life on such a grand scale. If I were to say this was an outlier, an exception to the rule and something that will not repeat, I would simply be paying you lip service when all evidence pointed to the contrary.

The evident truth is that such things will continue to occur, and chances are better than good that they will increase in frequency. Next time it may not be a club, but it will be something public, and populated, and frequented by a large swath of people, because in the minds of those who decide they will take as many lives as they possibly can on any given day a dead infidel is a dead infidel whether they are young or old, educated or simpleminded, an individual of means or the lowliest of paupers.
The Religion of Hate

There is only one solution. Believers in Jesus Christ must preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the followers of Islam.

 

[TNHarley]

I don't think another religion is the answer either.

 

[WillowTree]

If the good Muslims so outnumber the bad why haven't they handled it? Are they pussies?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I don't think another religion is the answer either.

Jesus Christ is not a religion. He is the way, the truth and the life and no man can come to the Father except through the Son. Let's face the truth here. The Vatican is "the force" behind world wide mass immigration to Europe and the United States. Their vehicle to get it done, the UN, EU, NATO and NGO's which they control. Until we address the root of the problem and deal with it, we're spinning our wheels. As the Vatican has made sure to flood Europe and America with Islamic invaders who are determined to accomplish the agenda they were sent to fulfill, Believers in Jesus Christ can do but one thing. Lead these people to Jesus Christ and therein destroy the hate, murder, bitterness and Baal worship that they are even now destroying themselves in. Jesus Christ is the answer. Religion is the problem. It all goes back to Rome. Do the research and you'll find it is true, TNHarley.

 

[TNHarley]

If the good Muslims so outnumber the bad why haven't they handled it? Are they pussies?

I read a poll from PEW research a couple of years ago. It said that 40% of sunni muslims think Shiites are an abomination. We all know what happens to abominations.. That's like 4 or 500M people..
That's not counting the percentage of Shiites that think the same about sunnis.
Just something to think about..

 

[TNHarley]

I don't think another religion is the answer either.

Jesus Christ is not a religion. He is the way, the truth and the life and no man can come to the Father except through the Son. Let's face the truth here. The Vatican is "the force" behind world wide mass immigration to Europe and the United States. Their vehicle to get it done, the UN, EU, NATO and NGO's which they control. Until we address the root of the problem and deal with it, we're spinning our wheels. As the Vatican has made sure to flood Europe and America with invaders who are determined to accomplish the agenda they were sent to fulfill, Believers in Jesus Christ can do but one thing. Lead these people to Jesus Christ and therein destroy the hate, murder, bitterness and Baal worship that they are even now destroying themselves in. Jesus Christ is the answer. Religion is the problem. It all goes back to Rome. Do the research and you'll find it is true, TNHarley.

Yeah, that will work. Go shove another religion down their throats..
Coyote is wrong most of the time, but secularism is what evolved the Christians. JS

 

[boedicca]

I'm beginning to feel like Islam is the abusive husband to Infidels. The battered wives are afraid to speak up or make him angry, so his increasingly violent behavior is excused and tolerated.

Unless Islam goes through a modern reformation in which politics are separated from spiritual beliefs, then I don't see how peaceful assimilation is possible. It's never happened.

 

[TNHarley]

I'm beginning to feel like Islam is the abusive husband to Infidels. The battered wives are afraid to speak up or make him angry, so his increasingly violent behavior is excused and tolerated.

Unless Islam goes through a modern reformation in which politics are separated from spiritual beliefs, then I don't see how peaceful assimilation is possible. It's never happened.

Islam is politics.

 

[boedicca]

I'm beginning to feel like Islam is the abusive husband to Infidels. The battered wives are afraid to speak up or make him angry, so his increasingly violent behavior is excused and tolerated.

Unless Islam goes through a modern reformation in which politics are separated from spiritual beliefs, then I don't see how peaceful assimilation is possible. It's never happened.

Islam is politics.

Yes, and that's why the "religion of peace" nonsense is a Trojan Horse. From Sweden:


Stickers calling for democracy to be replaced with Islam and for women who do not wear a veil to be raped have appeared in public places in Sweden. They have been reported to the police.
Pictures of the stickers, which have been stuck to objects on streets in Nybro, Småland, have been circulating on social media.

One of the stickers reads, in English: “Women who don’t wear a headscarf are asking to be raped.” Another reads: “No democracy. We just want Islam,” Fria Tider has reported....

Wear a Headscarf Or Be Raped, Swedish Women Warned

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I don't think another religion is the answer either.

Jesus Christ is not a religion. He is the way, the truth and the life and no man can come to the Father except through the Son. Let's face the truth here. The Vatican is "the force" behind world wide mass immigration to Europe and the United States. Their vehicle to get it done, the UN, EU, NATO and NGO's which they control. Until we address the root of the problem and deal with it, we're spinning our wheels. As the Vatican has made sure to flood Europe and America with invaders who are determined to accomplish the agenda they were sent to fulfill, Believers in Jesus Christ can do but one thing. Lead these people to Jesus Christ and therein destroy the hate, murder, bitterness and Baal worship that they are even now destroying themselves in. Jesus Christ is the answer. Religion is the problem. It all goes back to Rome. Do the research and you'll find it is true, TNHarley.

Yeah, that will work. Go shove another religion down their throats..
Coyote is wrong most of the time, but secularism is what evolved the Christians. JS

The wicked are God's sword (Psalm 17:13 KJV Holy Bible). If you do not seek the Lord Jesus Christ with your whole heart you're bound to incur his wrath in due time. It is only the Blood of Jesus Christ which has the power to save and deliver - even from evil!

 

[TNHarley]

I'm beginning to feel like Islam is the abusive husband to Infidels. The battered wives are afraid to speak up or make him angry, so his increasingly violent behavior is excused and tolerated.

Unless Islam goes through a modern reformation in which politics are separated from spiritual beliefs, then I don't see how peaceful assimilation is possible. It's never happened.

Islam is politics.

Yes, and that's why the "religion of peace" nonsense is a Trojan Horse. From Sweden:


Stickers calling for democracy to be replaced with Islam and for women who do not wear a veil to be raped have appeared in public places in Sweden. They have been reported to the police.
Pictures of the stickers, which have been stuck to objects on streets in Nybro, Småland, have been circulating on social media.

One of the stickers reads, in English: “Women who don’t wear a headscarf are asking to be raped.” Another reads: “No democracy. We just want Islam,” Fria Tider has reported....

Wear a Headscarf Or Be Raped, Swedish Women Warned

Isn fact, political isn't enough to describe it. It tells muslims how to regulate property, taxes and even personal hygiene. It is a way of life.