Do We Really Need Guns?

[boedicca]

The OP's attempt to Gruber the board is an epic fail.

Just sayin'.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Desperado -

What about the rights of the victims of gun violence?

Or don't those people have rights?

They have the right to the government prosecuting those responsible. They do not have the right to impose collective guilt on the rest of us, and take away OUR rights to firearms.

They also had a right to get a gun and protect themselves. Guess they shoulda exercised that one, huh?

 

[PGreen]

I have some interesting facts for you. In the U.S., there are nine guns for every 10 people. Someone is killed with a firearm every 16 minutes. I think these numbers are not adequate. I mean, there shouldn't be such numbers in the country like America.

 

[Iceweasel]

 

[MXdad]

I have some interesting facts for you. In the U.S., there are nine guns for every 10 people. Someone is killed with a firearm every 16 minutes. I think these numbers are not adequate. I mean, there shouldn't be such numbers in the country like America.

Prove your claim

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's my first thread here, and I want to start with the issue, that worries me a lot.

Gun owners always claim that they own guns for self protection, even though the guns in their homes impose a much greater risk to their lives than an intruder. They also state they need guns to protect themselves from the government and from tthr police. Oh, seriously? Other argument for guns is hunting. Food production in the US is quite complex and capable of providing all types of foods to all parts of the country. And, if someone is too poor to buy food to eat, they are too poor to buy weapons. So what for?! Explain me, please.

I truly believe, that guns only do harm There is no use for guns in our society. The 2nd amendment was made in a time where guns were necessary because of the British.

I am in my 60s and have never needed a gun, and none of my friends have either. When I lived in New York City I was out on the streets all night long, including going to after hours clubs in Harlem and the South Bronx. Never did I feel the need to be armed.

Well, that's you. Explain to me what the fuck that has to do with anyone else who ISN'T you?

 

[pismoe]

you are forgetting God given RIGHTS plus the original intent of the 2nd amendment ' pc green' .

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well good for you.

Yes, it is good that one does not need to carry a gun for protection.

It's not about need

Insecurity?

Nope I'm 6'7 and 270 I have handled every situation that came my way. It's about want, I see a gun I want I'm free to get it

There is a difference in buying a gun and carrying it in public.

You know, you're absolutely right. You wandered around the Bronx mistakenly believing you were perfectly safe, and got lucky, so that OBVIOUSLY means that no one in the nation is EVER a victim of crime, and everyone is perfectly safe as well, with no need for protection. All those statistics about murder and rape and assault? Pffft. Made up by gun companies to make sales. The world is perfect and the crime rate is zero.

Let's party!

 

[Iceweasel]

I have some interesting facts for you. In the U.S., there are nine guns for every 10 people. Someone is killed with a firearm every 16 minutes. I think these numbers are not adequate. I mean, there shouldn't be such numbers in the country like America.

In the slim chance you are serious, many deaths by firearms include suicide. And I have my 9 guns! ...or was that 10? Have to get back to ya....

 

[MXdad]

I have some interesting facts for you. In the U.S., there are nine guns for every 10 people. Someone is killed with a firearm every 16 minutes. I think these numbers are not adequate. I mean, there shouldn't be such numbers in the country like America.

In the slim chance you are serious, many deaths by firearms include suicide. And I have my 9 guns! ...or was that 10? Have to get back to ya....

Not to mention they include deaths in the commission of a crime, self defense etc...
That is the reason I asked the poster to provide proof of his claim. My guess is he/she will refuse to back it up. But if by some miracle he/she dies post supporting docs it will be debunked in short order

 

[2aguy]

Pc green...for the soft ball points you make....

8-9,000 gun murders are comitted each year in the U.S., 80% by gang members in democrat controlled cities, in the inner city, in small, multiblock areas

While 1.4 million times a year, as an average number, guns are used to save lives and stop violent crime....it seems that those 1.4 million people needed their guns...

Before you say that number is fake...and sorry to those who have to see this again....

this time is just for you...the statistics on how many times guns are used to save lives and stop violent crime...keeping in mind, according to the FBI, there are about 8-9,000 gun murders a year....and about 80% of those occur in small, multi block areas in inner city areas of our major cities...usually controlled by democrats...having been controlled by democrats for decades....

again....the bottom column of the chart never wants to post so I give the name of the people or group doing the study, the year of the study and number of times they found guns were used to save lives and stop violent crime each year....

Okay...again...here are all the studies that actually give numbers for guns used to save lives and stop crimes taken from the table I provided from guncite.com...

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
Field...1976....3,052,717

Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIa 1978...2,141,512
DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Ohio...1982...771,043
Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1991...777,153

Gallup...1993...1,621,377
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,682

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036
And this from the clinton justice department...

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million
(Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text,PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
.(Lawrence Southwick, Jr.,Guns and Justifiable Homicide: Deterrence and Defense-concludes there are at least 400,000 "fewer violent crimes due to civilian self-defense use of guns" and at least "800,000 violent crimes are deterred each year because of gun ownership and use by civilians.")


From Obama's CDC...they spent 10 million dollars in 2013 for this study...

from slate.com an article on CDC obama's era...500-3 million defensive gun uses

Handguns suicides mass shootings deaths and self-defense Findings from a research report on gun violence.
7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year … in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” says the report. The three million figure is probably high, “based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys.”
--------------------

"Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year."
As shown in the previous footnote, this study did not use a nationally representative population. To correct for this, Just Facts used the following equation:


As Kleck points out in his paper...

All of the eleven surveys yielded results that implied over 700,000 uses per year. None of the surveys implied estimates even remotely like the 65,000 to 82,000 figures derived from the NCVS. To date, there has been no confirmation of even the most approximate sort of the NCVS estimates. Indeed, no survey has ever yielded an estimate which is of the same magnitude as those derived from the NCVS.

....can you answer the question...since none of these studies is lower than about 700,000 times a year....

which is bigger....and how do you justify disarming 1.4 million people who saved lives and stopped violent crime....to try to stop 8-9,000 gun murders a year....?

 

[2aguy]

I still think pc green is a gun person lobbing soft balls for us to knock out of the park....you don't have to Pc....we have the research on our side and on top of that....we have the God given right to self defense as recorded in the Bill of Rights....that tops anything the anti gunners whine and cry about....

 

[SixFoot]

No one NEEDS a blah blah blah blah.

Get over yourselves.

Don't come in here stirring up the hoplophobes Lib

No one NEEDS to stir up the hoplophobes!

But I WANT to

Damn pesky rights.

Hey what do I know about rights yesterday here I was accused of being a globalist and an Obama Loyalist

Oh, to be new again.

 

[MXdad]

Don't come in here stirring up the hoplophobes Lib

No one NEEDS to stir up the hoplophobes!

But I WANT to

Damn pesky rights.

Hey what do I know about rights yesterday here I was accused of being a globalist and an Obama Loyalist

Oh, to be new again.

LOL

 

[westwall]

It's my first thread here, and I want to start with the issue, that worries me a lot.

Gun owners always claim that they own guns for self protection, even though the guns in their homes impose a much greater risk to their lives than an intruder. They also state they need guns to protect themselves from the government and from tthr police. Oh, seriously? Other argument for guns is hunting. Food production in the US is quite complex and capable of providing all types of foods to all parts of the country. And, if someone is too poor to buy food to eat, they are too poor to buy weapons. So what for?! Explain me, please.

I truly believe, that guns only do harm There is no use for guns in our society. The 2nd amendment was made in a time where guns were necessary because of the British.

I am in my 60s and have never needed a gun, and none of my friends have either. When I lived in New York City I was out on the streets all night long, including going to after hours clubs in Harlem and the South Bronx. Never did I feel the need to be armed.

I'm a little older than you and I've only ever needed a gun once, when I was attacked by bandits in Morocco. I was really glad I had the AK then! But, to your point, the VAST majority of people will thankfully never need a gun. But the 1.4 million Americans, who every year prevent a crime with the careful use of one....are damned thankful they had one.

Your very limited life experience doesn't matter in the slightest to their very real need at the time they used it.

 

[Dan Daly]

It's my first thread here, and I want to start with the issue, that worries me a lot.

Gun owners always claim that they own guns for self protection, even though the guns in their homes impose a much greater risk to their lives than an intruder. They also state they need guns to protect themselves from the government and from tthr police. Oh, seriously? Other argument for guns is hunting. Food production in the US is quite complex and capable of providing all types of foods to all parts of the country. And, if someone is too poor to buy food to eat, they are too poor to buy weapons. So what for?! Explain me, please.

I truly believe, that guns only do harm There is no use for guns in our society. The 2nd amendment was made in a time where guns were necessary because of the British.

I only need one argument to own a firearm: because I want to. I really don't give a crap what kind of bullshit you believe.

 

[Dan Daly]

I truly believe, that guns only do harm There is no use for guns in our society. The 2nd amendment was made in a time where guns were necessary because of the British.

I totally agree with you, and congratulations on having the cojones to raise this issue.

Countries with less guns are almost always safer than the US, and that is simply a cold, hard truth that few gun rights fanatics are willing to admit.

I totally support peoples' right to own a gun for hunting or target shooting, but all of countries should have safety-based gun laws aimed at protecting life first and foremost. No one needs an assault rifle at home.

Until the Russians decide to invade again.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Guns provide people with a false sense of safety.

This is your opinion, nothing more.

And, actually, Nothing good comes from them.

You cannot show this to be true.

Its true that guns do not kill people, but rather people do, however, place that gun in a person's hand that is not fully mentally there, and we have trouble.

For every gun used to murder someone in the US, >33800 are not.
Where's this trouble you speak of?

Really - if you're going to take a stab at arguing against guns in this board, you'll need to seriously up your game.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I have some interesting facts for you. In the U.S., there are nine guns for every 10 people. Someone is killed with a firearm every 16 minutes. I think these numbers are not adequate. I mean, there shouldn't be such numbers in the country like America.

300,000,000 gun in the US.
8855 murders in the US (2012)
99.997% of the guns in the US were NOT involved in a murder.
Where's the problem?

 

[M14 Shooter]

I have some interesting facts for you. In the U.S., there are nine guns for every 10 people. Someone is killed with a firearm every 16 minutes. I think these numbers are not adequate. I mean, there shouldn't be such numbers in the country like America.

In the slim chance you are serious, many deaths by firearms include suicide. And I have my 9 guns! ...or was that 10? Have to get back to ya....

9 guns for every 10 people?
I have 16 -- someone is slacking!