Do You Believe We Came From Monkeys?

Seriously. Let's look at some of the most crazy mass murders in the world. The Crusades, and the subsequent Inquisitions.

Dictated by somebody's "god".

And it made Christianity rule the world.

Murder, rape, genocide, pedophilia, torture, corruption, and slander, made Christianity what it is today.

That's great stuff to try to live up to, if you're an asshole.

And that also applies to other religions. But Christianity is the bitch, because followers say they are against it, but instead they promote it. To this day, especially the little kid stuff... Fucking sick assholes!

You are wrong again. You do not present any evidence to back it up while I do. State atheism killed more people than any other group or ideology.

Atheist regimes in 20th century alone killed more people than all world religions killed in the last 20 centuries put together.

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,00 people murdered
Jozef Stalin (USSR 1932-39 only) 15,000,000 people murdered
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000 people murdered
Kim II Sung (North Korea 1948-94) 1.6 million people murdered
Tito (Yugoslavia 1945-1987) 570,000 people murdered
Suharto (Communists 1967-66) 500,000 people murdered
Ante Pavelic (Croatia 1941-45) 359,000 people murdered
Ho Chi Min (Vietnam 1953-56) 200,000 people murdered
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 people murdered
Adolf Hitler, secular and anti-religion (Germany 1939-1945) 12,000,000 people murdered

Atheist Murderers
Atheist Murderers

Top 10 People Who Gave Atheism a Bad Name
10 People Who Give Atheism a Bad Name - Listverse

The issue with your simple cutting and pasting is that you're not understanding what you're cutting and pasting.

You're too lazy to actually examine the numbers so I did it for you.

Firstly, your whining regarding Mao and Stalin is mis-placed. Their motivations speak to political ideologies. Your claims to Atheism as the motivation for the atrocities is sweepingly ignorant. The atrocities of communism is overshadowed by the acts of specific individuals.


Let's see how well the numbers balance down the list, shall we?:

There is no question about Pol Pot - Commie/Authoritarian, no doubt about it.<-- Not religious (and not disputed!)

The Monguls were not Christians or Moslems. If anything their beliefs were more like your Eskimo religion.<-- Religious!

Manchu were possibly believers in Confucianism, but they were just as ruthless as Christians or Moslems.<-- Religious!

Taiping Rebellion was either Buddhism or Confucianism related.<-- RELIGIOUS!

While the Annihilation of the American Indians, might be attributed to Christian, it was in reality a clash of a "Stone Age" culture with one that was moving into the "Industrial Age". <-- NON RELIGIOUS!

Joe Stalin, Mao, a real Communist atheist.<-- Not religious and NOT DISPUTED!

The Mideast Slave trade was run by Moslems, and of course there were ideological perspectives involved as well as a mercantile motive.<-- RELIGIOUS!

The Atlantic Slave could clearly be laid on the hands of Christians.<-- RELIGIOUS!

Timur Lenk was a Turkish Mongul whose conquests rivaled Ghengis Khan. He was not a Christian or Moslem - merely killed lots of them!<-- Not religious, perhaps!

The Kaiser, Archduke Ferdinand, King George, Tsar, and the French were all Christian (but the Turks were Islamic). Although WWII was largely about power and control, Nazism was deeply rooted in christianity <-- Religious!

The Russian Civil War was the Whites (Christians) against the Reds (Atheistic Communist Bolsheviks). Flip a coin, but the Bolsheviks started it! The Czar instituted pogroms against the Jews, <-- Religious!

The Thuggee were a Hindhu cult.<--- Religious!

Rome falls to the pagan Barbarians!<-- "Pagans" had religious beliefs. So did Rome. --RELIGIOUS!

The Thirty Year War involved Christian Europe, again more about power than religion!<--Religious!

The Congo Free State included imperialism and colonialism attributed to a number of European Christian States. It wasn't entirely about religion, however.<-- Religious!

The Chinese Civil War involved atheistic Marxist under Mao, and Buddhists or Confucians under the Nationalist banner. <-- BOTH!

The Crusades<-- Religious!

Spanish Inquisition<-- Religious!

Spanish conquest of South America<-- Religious!

The moslem rape of the Indian Subcontinent stands as one of the greatest genocides in human history. Some 80 million people may have been killed <== RELIGIOUS

The moslem conquest of Europe shortly after the death of the Islam's man-god: muhammud, is impossible to calculate. <-- RELIGIOUS!

Any fair tallying of the numbers will put your communist-Marxist ideology in the running for really "evil" category! HOWEVER – Marxism, which defines an ideology, was the prime motivator for Lenin, Stalin Mao, Pol Pot and Kim Jong. Atheism was not a motivating factor in their atrocities.

So – tally the score. Religion “"wins"”.

What's important to understand though is that it has always been the religions that have perpetrated the greatest horrors, mass murders and suffering. Look around you though, It’s you wonderful religious folks who are suicide bombers, airline hijackers, mass murderers, etc., etc. Hey, it's theists who claim that they have morals of a divine nature to adhere to -- it's theism that claims a "better person" comes from a deep faith. The fact is, it's a sham.
 
How many times do I have to say... Socialism and Nazism are religions.

You can't get mass amounts of people to willfully kill and die, unless they believe in a religion. Or are defending against a religion.

Religion is the tool to create wars. And none of them are true.

No one's denying that, but stating atheism murdered the most people. When one has no objective morality, these things happen. Or are you too hypocritical to be able to admit it?

It is simply false to suggest that "atheism murdered the most people". In what appears to be feverish attempts at moral equivalence, I'll advise that the purges committed under Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were in furtherance of political ideologies. Atheism was not the motivating factor in those purges. I have nothing to support any claim that Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot ever shouted Atheism Akbar in the commission of their mass murders. I'm surprised (well, not really), that you would choose to falsely and carelessly introduce Atheism as a motivating factor for mass murder when that was not the case. On the other hand, mass murder has historically been a vehicle for expansion of religious ideology. The religious perspectives have been the engine that drove conquests. Shields, placards, belt buckles, engraving on weapons, etc., have borne the symbols of religious ideologies.
 
Seriously. Let's look at some of the most crazy mass murders in the world. The Crusades, and the subsequent Inquisitions.

Dictated by somebody's "god".

And it made Christianity rule the world.

Murder, rape, genocide, pedophilia, torture, corruption, and slander, made Christianity what it is today.

That's great stuff to try to live up to, if you're an asshole.

And that also applies to other religions. But Christianity is the bitch, because followers say they are against it, but instead they promote it. To this day, especially the little kid stuff... Fucking sick assholes!

You are wrong again. You do not present any evidence to back it up while I do. State atheism killed more people than any other group or ideology.

Atheist regimes in 20th century alone killed more people than all world religions killed in the last 20 centuries put together.

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,00 people murdered
Jozef Stalin (USSR 1932-39 only) 15,000,000 people murdered
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000 people murdered
Kim II Sung (North Korea 1948-94) 1.6 million people murdered
Tito (Yugoslavia 1945-1987) 570,000 people murdered
Suharto (Communists 1967-66) 500,000 people murdered
Ante Pavelic (Croatia 1941-45) 359,000 people murdered
Ho Chi Min (Vietnam 1953-56) 200,000 people murdered
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 people murdered
Adolf Hitler, secular and anti-religion (Germany 1939-1945) 12,000,000 people murdered

Atheist Murderers
Atheist Murderers

Top 10 People Who Gave Atheism a Bad Name
10 People Who Give Atheism a Bad Name - Listverse

The issue with your simple cutting and pasting is that you're not understanding what you're cutting and pasting.

You're too lazy to actually examine the numbers so I did it for you.

Firstly, your whining regarding Mao and Stalin is mis-placed. Their motivations speak to political ideologies. Your claims to Atheism as the motivation for the atrocities is sweepingly ignorant. The atrocities of communism is overshadowed by the acts of specific individuals.


Let's see how well the numbers balance down the list, shall we?:

There is no question about Pol Pot - Commie/Authoritarian, no doubt about it.<-- Not religious (and not disputed!)

The Monguls were not Christians or Moslems. If anything their beliefs were more like your Eskimo religion.<-- Religious!

Manchu were possibly believers in Confucianism, but they were just as ruthless as Christians or Moslems.<-- Religious!

Taiping Rebellion was either Buddhism or Confucianism related.<-- RELIGIOUS!

While the Annihilation of the American Indians, might be attributed to Christian, it was in reality a clash of a "Stone Age" culture with one that was moving into the "Industrial Age". <-- NON RELIGIOUS!

Joe Stalin, Mao, a real Communist atheist.<-- Not religious and NOT DISPUTED!

The Mideast Slave trade was run by Moslems, and of course there were ideological perspectives involved as well as a mercantile motive.<-- RELIGIOUS!

The Atlantic Slave could clearly be laid on the hands of Christians.<-- RELIGIOUS!

Timur Lenk was a Turkish Mongul whose conquests rivaled Ghengis Khan. He was not a Christian or Moslem - merely killed lots of them!<-- Not religious, perhaps!

The Kaiser, Archduke Ferdinand, King George, Tsar, and the French were all Christian (but the Turks were Islamic). Although WWII was largely about power and control, Nazism was deeply rooted in christianity <-- Religious!

The Russian Civil War was the Whites (Christians) against the Reds (Atheistic Communist Bolsheviks). Flip a coin, but the Bolsheviks started it! The Czar instituted pogroms against the Jews, <-- Religious!

The Thuggee were a Hindhu cult.<--- Religious!

Rome falls to the pagan Barbarians!<-- "Pagans" had religious beliefs. So did Rome. --RELIGIOUS!

The Thirty Year War involved Christian Europe, again more about power than religion!<--Religious!

The Congo Free State included imperialism and colonialism attributed to a number of European Christian States. It wasn't entirely about religion, however.<-- Religious!

The Chinese Civil War involved atheistic Marxist under Mao, and Buddhists or Confucians under the Nationalist banner. <-- BOTH!

The Crusades<-- Religious!

Spanish Inquisition<-- Religious!

Spanish conquest of South America<-- Religious!

The moslem rape of the Indian Subcontinent stands as one of the greatest genocides in human history. Some 80 million people may have been killed <== RELIGIOUS

The moslem conquest of Europe shortly after the death of the Islam's man-god: muhammud, is impossible to calculate. <-- RELIGIOUS!

Any fair tallying of the numbers will put your communist-Marxist ideology in the running for really "evil" category! HOWEVER – Marxism, which defines an ideology, was the prime motivator for Lenin, Stalin Mao, Pol Pot and Kim Jong. Atheism was not a motivating factor in their atrocities.

So – tally the score. Religion “"wins"”.

What's important to understand though is that it has always been the religions that have perpetrated the greatest horrors, mass murders and suffering. Look around you though, It’s you wonderful religious folks who are suicide bombers, airline hijackers, mass murderers, etc., etc. Hey, it's theists who claim that they have morals of a divine nature to adhere to -- it's theism that claims a "better person" comes from a deep faith. The fact is, it's a sham.

Total numbers is what we were discussing and I was pointing out State Atheism which is politically based killed the most people throughout history. Today, it is associated with secular humanism and socialism. In the past, it was associated with Marxism and Marxist humanism.

Generally speaking, people consider these killings to be politically motivated instead of religious motivations. However, that isn't to state that religion did not play any part. We know of religious based killings and this is going on today. Thus, if someone like RWS, who sounds like a purist, state it's religious-based and that atheism and all other religions are involved, then it is hard to make an argument against it. (Even Buddhism has killed people.) So, in this discussion, it is considered religious killings with a political motivation. For example, the killings in London by Islamicists are against atheists. I suspect the killings in France are the same motivation. Not to say, other religious people aren't killed but I don't think they are the targets.

List of terrorist incidents in London
List of terrorist incidents in London - Wikipedia

List of terrorist incidents in France
List of terrorist incidents in France - Wikipedia
 
Speaking of which, to get back to the topic, do monkeys/apes kill each other besides survival? In other words, they may do it for fun or pleasure.
 
Seriously. Let's look at some of the most crazy mass murders in the world. The Crusades, and the subsequent Inquisitions.

Dictated by somebody's "god".

And it made Christianity rule the world.

Murder, rape, genocide, pedophilia, torture, corruption, and slander, made Christianity what it is today.

That's great stuff to try to live up to, if you're an asshole.

And that also applies to other religions. But Christianity is the bitch, because followers say they are against it, but instead they promote it. To this day, especially the little kid stuff... Fucking sick assholes!

You are wrong again. You do not present any evidence to back it up while I do. State atheism killed more people than any other group or ideology.

Atheist regimes in 20th century alone killed more people than all world religions killed in the last 20 centuries put together.

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,00 people murdered
Jozef Stalin (USSR 1932-39 only) 15,000,000 people murdered
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000 people murdered
Kim II Sung (North Korea 1948-94) 1.6 million people murdered
Tito (Yugoslavia 1945-1987) 570,000 people murdered
Suharto (Communists 1967-66) 500,000 people murdered
Ante Pavelic (Croatia 1941-45) 359,000 people murdered
Ho Chi Min (Vietnam 1953-56) 200,000 people murdered
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 people murdered
Adolf Hitler, secular and anti-religion (Germany 1939-1945) 12,000,000 people murdered

Atheist Murderers
Atheist Murderers

Top 10 People Who Gave Atheism a Bad Name
10 People Who Give Atheism a Bad Name - Listverse

The issue with your simple cutting and pasting is that you're not understanding what you're cutting and pasting.

You're too lazy to actually examine the numbers so I did it for you.

Firstly, your whining regarding Mao and Stalin is mis-placed. Their motivations speak to political ideologies. Your claims to Atheism as the motivation for the atrocities is sweepingly ignorant. The atrocities of communism is overshadowed by the acts of specific individuals.


Let's see how well the numbers balance down the list, shall we?:

There is no question about Pol Pot - Commie/Authoritarian, no doubt about it.<-- Not religious (and not disputed!)

The Monguls were not Christians or Moslems. If anything their beliefs were more like your Eskimo religion.<-- Religious!

Manchu were possibly believers in Confucianism, but they were just as ruthless as Christians or Moslems.<-- Religious!

Taiping Rebellion was either Buddhism or Confucianism related.<-- RELIGIOUS!

While the Annihilation of the American Indians, might be attributed to Christian, it was in reality a clash of a "Stone Age" culture with one that was moving into the "Industrial Age". <-- NON RELIGIOUS!

Joe Stalin, Mao, a real Communist atheist.<-- Not religious and NOT DISPUTED!

The Mideast Slave trade was run by Moslems, and of course there were ideological perspectives involved as well as a mercantile motive.<-- RELIGIOUS!

The Atlantic Slave could clearly be laid on the hands of Christians.<-- RELIGIOUS!

Timur Lenk was a Turkish Mongul whose conquests rivaled Ghengis Khan. He was not a Christian or Moslem - merely killed lots of them!<-- Not religious, perhaps!

The Kaiser, Archduke Ferdinand, King George, Tsar, and the French were all Christian (but the Turks were Islamic). Although WWII was largely about power and control, Nazism was deeply rooted in christianity <-- Religious!

The Russian Civil War was the Whites (Christians) against the Reds (Atheistic Communist Bolsheviks). Flip a coin, but the Bolsheviks started it! The Czar instituted pogroms against the Jews, <-- Religious!

The Thuggee were a Hindhu cult.<--- Religious!

Rome falls to the pagan Barbarians!<-- "Pagans" had religious beliefs. So did Rome. --RELIGIOUS!

The Thirty Year War involved Christian Europe, again more about power than religion!<--Religious!

The Congo Free State included imperialism and colonialism attributed to a number of European Christian States. It wasn't entirely about religion, however.<-- Religious!

The Chinese Civil War involved atheistic Marxist under Mao, and Buddhists or Confucians under the Nationalist banner. <-- BOTH!

The Crusades<-- Religious!

Spanish Inquisition<-- Religious!

Spanish conquest of South America<-- Religious!

The moslem rape of the Indian Subcontinent stands as one of the greatest genocides in human history. Some 80 million people may have been killed <== RELIGIOUS

The moslem conquest of Europe shortly after the death of the Islam's man-god: muhammud, is impossible to calculate. <-- RELIGIOUS!

Any fair tallying of the numbers will put your communist-Marxist ideology in the running for really "evil" category! HOWEVER – Marxism, which defines an ideology, was the prime motivator for Lenin, Stalin Mao, Pol Pot and Kim Jong. Atheism was not a motivating factor in their atrocities.

So – tally the score. Religion “"wins"”.

What's important to understand though is that it has always been the religions that have perpetrated the greatest horrors, mass murders and suffering. Look around you though, It’s you wonderful religious folks who are suicide bombers, airline hijackers, mass murderers, etc., etc. Hey, it's theists who claim that they have morals of a divine nature to adhere to -- it's theism that claims a "better person" comes from a deep faith. The fact is, it's a sham.

Total numbers is what we were discussing and I was pointing out State Atheism which is politically based killed the most people throughout history. Today, it is associated with secular humanism and socialism. In the past, it was associated with Marxism and Marxist humanism.

Generally speaking, people consider these killings to be politically motivated instead of religious motivations. However, that isn't to state that religion did not play any part. We know of religious based killings and this is going on today. Thus, if someone like RWS, who sounds like a purist, state it's religious-based and that atheism and all other religions are involved, then it is hard to make an argument against it. (Even Buddhism has killed people.) So, in this discussion, it is considered religious killings with a political motivation. For example, the killings in London by Islamicists are against atheists. I suspect the killings in France are the same motivation. Not to say, other religious people aren't killed but I don't think they are the targets.

List of terrorist incidents in London
List of terrorist incidents in London - Wikipedia

List of terrorist incidents in France
List of terrorist incidents in France - Wikipedia

State Atheism is not politically based. Political Ideologies such as communism, Marxism, Leninist political doctrines, etc., do not use atheism as a basis for political doctrine.

BTW, it is nonsensical to suggest that the killings in London or Spain (or elsewhere in Europe), by Islamicists are against atheists.

When Islamic killers slaughtered 191 innocent Spaniards in Madrid, it had nothing to do with Atheists. it was ostensibly provoked by the Aznar administration's decision to send Spanish troops into Iraq as part of the U.S.-led coalition (or the Crusaders, as the mujahideen like to call them). And that's fair in the gee-had playbook. But that horrific terror attack, was also about something less temporal and more profound. It's about the Islamic legal concept of waqf.

In Arabic, waqf can literally mean prevention, restraint, or retention. In Islam, a waqf is any property that has been given for the benefit of islamics, in perpetuity, and to please God. It is essentially making land, or other material, God's property, not to be taken back by anyone. It is an important part of sharia law, and has several purposes. In this case, we are concerned with its ramifications in connection with land—essentially any land previously conquered by Islam.
 
Speaking of which, to get back to the topic, do monkeys/apes kill each other besides survival? In other words, they may do it for fun or pleasure.

Support your statement that monkeys/apes may kill each other for fun.
 
Seriously. Let's look at some of the most crazy mass murders in the world. The Crusades, and the subsequent Inquisitions.

Dictated by somebody's "god".

And it made Christianity rule the world.

Murder, rape, genocide, pedophilia, torture, corruption, and slander, made Christianity what it is today.

That's great stuff to try to live up to, if you're an asshole.

And that also applies to other religions. But Christianity is the bitch, because followers say they are against it, but instead they promote it. To this day, especially the little kid stuff... Fucking sick assholes!

You are wrong again. You do not present any evidence to back it up while I do. State atheism killed more people than any other group or ideology.

Atheist regimes in 20th century alone killed more people than all world religions killed in the last 20 centuries put together.

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,00 people murdered
Jozef Stalin (USSR 1932-39 only) 15,000,000 people murdered
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000 people murdered
Kim II Sung (North Korea 1948-94) 1.6 million people murdered
Tito (Yugoslavia 1945-1987) 570,000 people murdered
Suharto (Communists 1967-66) 500,000 people murdered
Ante Pavelic (Croatia 1941-45) 359,000 people murdered
Ho Chi Min (Vietnam 1953-56) 200,000 people murdered
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 people murdered
Adolf Hitler, secular and anti-religion (Germany 1939-1945) 12,000,000 people murdered

Atheist Murderers
Atheist Murderers

Top 10 People Who Gave Atheism a Bad Name
10 People Who Give Atheism a Bad Name - Listverse

The issue with your simple cutting and pasting is that you're not understanding what you're cutting and pasting.

You're too lazy to actually examine the numbers so I did it for you.

Firstly, your whining regarding Mao and Stalin is mis-placed. Their motivations speak to political ideologies. Your claims to Atheism as the motivation for the atrocities is sweepingly ignorant. The atrocities of communism is overshadowed by the acts of specific individuals.


Let's see how well the numbers balance down the list, shall we?:

There is no question about Pol Pot - Commie/Authoritarian, no doubt about it.<-- Not religious (and not disputed!)

The Monguls were not Christians or Moslems. If anything their beliefs were more like your Eskimo religion.<-- Religious!

Manchu were possibly believers in Confucianism, but they were just as ruthless as Christians or Moslems.<-- Religious!

Taiping Rebellion was either Buddhism or Confucianism related.<-- RELIGIOUS!

While the Annihilation of the American Indians, might be attributed to Christian, it was in reality a clash of a "Stone Age" culture with one that was moving into the "Industrial Age". <-- NON RELIGIOUS!

Joe Stalin, Mao, a real Communist atheist.<-- Not religious and NOT DISPUTED!

The Mideast Slave trade was run by Moslems, and of course there were ideological perspectives involved as well as a mercantile motive.<-- RELIGIOUS!

The Atlantic Slave could clearly be laid on the hands of Christians.<-- RELIGIOUS!

Timur Lenk was a Turkish Mongul whose conquests rivaled Ghengis Khan. He was not a Christian or Moslem - merely killed lots of them!<-- Not religious, perhaps!

The Kaiser, Archduke Ferdinand, King George, Tsar, and the French were all Christian (but the Turks were Islamic). Although WWII was largely about power and control, Nazism was deeply rooted in christianity <-- Religious!

The Russian Civil War was the Whites (Christians) against the Reds (Atheistic Communist Bolsheviks). Flip a coin, but the Bolsheviks started it! The Czar instituted pogroms against the Jews, <-- Religious!

The Thuggee were a Hindhu cult.<--- Religious!

Rome falls to the pagan Barbarians!<-- "Pagans" had religious beliefs. So did Rome. --RELIGIOUS!

The Thirty Year War involved Christian Europe, again more about power than religion!<--Religious!

The Congo Free State included imperialism and colonialism attributed to a number of European Christian States. It wasn't entirely about religion, however.<-- Religious!

The Chinese Civil War involved atheistic Marxist under Mao, and Buddhists or Confucians under the Nationalist banner. <-- BOTH!

The Crusades<-- Religious!

Spanish Inquisition<-- Religious!

Spanish conquest of South America<-- Religious!

The moslem rape of the Indian Subcontinent stands as one of the greatest genocides in human history. Some 80 million people may have been killed <== RELIGIOUS

The moslem conquest of Europe shortly after the death of the Islam's man-god: muhammud, is impossible to calculate. <-- RELIGIOUS!

Any fair tallying of the numbers will put your communist-Marxist ideology in the running for really "evil" category! HOWEVER – Marxism, which defines an ideology, was the prime motivator for Lenin, Stalin Mao, Pol Pot and Kim Jong. Atheism was not a motivating factor in their atrocities.

So – tally the score. Religion “"wins"”.

What's important to understand though is that it has always been the religions that have perpetrated the greatest horrors, mass murders and suffering. Look around you though, It’s you wonderful religious folks who are suicide bombers, airline hijackers, mass murderers, etc., etc. Hey, it's theists who claim that they have morals of a divine nature to adhere to -- it's theism that claims a "better person" comes from a deep faith. The fact is, it's a sham.

Total numbers is what we were discussing and I was pointing out State Atheism which is politically based killed the most people throughout history. Today, it is associated with secular humanism and socialism. In the past, it was associated with Marxism and Marxist humanism.

Generally speaking, people consider these killings to be politically motivated instead of religious motivations. However, that isn't to state that religion did not play any part. We know of religious based killings and this is going on today. Thus, if someone like RWS, who sounds like a purist, state it's religious-based and that atheism and all other religions are involved, then it is hard to make an argument against it. (Even Buddhism has killed people.) So, in this discussion, it is considered religious killings with a political motivation. For example, the killings in London by Islamicists are against atheists. I suspect the killings in France are the same motivation. Not to say, other religious people aren't killed but I don't think they are the targets.

List of terrorist incidents in London
List of terrorist incidents in London - Wikipedia

List of terrorist incidents in France
List of terrorist incidents in France - Wikipedia

State Atheism is not politically based. Political Ideologies such as communism, Marxism, Leninist political doctrines, etc., do not use atheism as a basis for political doctrine.

BTW, it is nonsensical to suggest that the killings in London or Spain (or elsewhere in Europe), by Islamicists are against atheists.

When Islamic killers slaughtered 191 innocent Spaniards in Madrid, it had nothing to do with Atheists. it was ostensibly provoked by the Aznar administration's decision to send Spanish troops into Iraq as part of the U.S.-led coalition (or the Crusaders, as the mujahideen like to call them). And that's fair in the gee-had playbook. But that horrific terror attack, was also about something less temporal and more profound. It's about the Islamic legal concept of waqf.

In Arabic, waqf can literally mean prevention, restraint, or retention. In Islam, a waqf is any property that has been given for the benefit of islamics, in perpetuity, and to please God. It is essentially making land, or other material, God's property, not to be taken back by anyone. It is an important part of sharia law, and has several purposes. In this case, we are concerned with its ramifications in connection with land—essentially any land previously conquered by Islam.

>>State Atheism is not politically based. Political Ideologies such as communism, Marxism, Leninist political doctrines, etc., do not use atheism as a basis for political doctrine.<<

So wrong. You should read The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx. He explains how to use atheism to further communism. We see that today with secular humanism and socialism as stated already.

This is my post on this as we are off topic.
 
Speaking of which, to get back to the topic, do monkeys/apes kill each other besides survival? In other words, they may do it for fun or pleasure.

Support your statement that monkeys/apes may kill each other for fun.

I asked a question. Can you answer it?

You made an utterly indefensible statement which you obviously cannot support.

Why chimpanzees attack and kill each other

Bands of chimpanzees violently kill individuals from neighboring groups in order to expand their own territory, according to a 10-year study of a chimp community in Uganda that provides the first definitive evidence for this long-suspected function of this behavior.

Read more at: Why chimpanzees attack and kill each other

For myself, I'll cite Jane Goodall's study of chimpanzees as the natural analogy to human tribal customs that evolves into law (and which codes morality). Furthermore, we consistently see humans -- with no specific religious connotation, have survival-based laws that preclude wanton murder and thievery. Further still, we see simple indigenous tribes have better morality than industrial nations have -- for instance, many tribes have no concept of thievery because they communally share everything.

You made a statement that you refuse to support. Can you support it?
 
Seriously. Let's look at some of the most crazy mass murders in the world. The Crusades, and the subsequent Inquisitions.

Dictated by somebody's "god".

And it made Christianity rule the world.

Murder, rape, genocide, pedophilia, torture, corruption, and slander, made Christianity what it is today.

That's great stuff to try to live up to, if you're an asshole.

And that also applies to other religions. But Christianity is the bitch, because followers say they are against it, but instead they promote it. To this day, especially the little kid stuff... Fucking sick assholes!

You are wrong again. You do not present any evidence to back it up while I do. State atheism killed more people than any other group or ideology.

Atheist regimes in 20th century alone killed more people than all world religions killed in the last 20 centuries put together.

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,00 people murdered
Jozef Stalin (USSR 1932-39 only) 15,000,000 people murdered
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000 people murdered
Kim II Sung (North Korea 1948-94) 1.6 million people murdered
Tito (Yugoslavia 1945-1987) 570,000 people murdered
Suharto (Communists 1967-66) 500,000 people murdered
Ante Pavelic (Croatia 1941-45) 359,000 people murdered
Ho Chi Min (Vietnam 1953-56) 200,000 people murdered
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 people murdered
Adolf Hitler, secular and anti-religion (Germany 1939-1945) 12,000,000 people murdered

Atheist Murderers
Atheist Murderers

Top 10 People Who Gave Atheism a Bad Name
10 People Who Give Atheism a Bad Name - Listverse

The issue with your simple cutting and pasting is that you're not understanding what you're cutting and pasting.

You're too lazy to actually examine the numbers so I did it for you.

Firstly, your whining regarding Mao and Stalin is mis-placed. Their motivations speak to political ideologies. Your claims to Atheism as the motivation for the atrocities is sweepingly ignorant. The atrocities of communism is overshadowed by the acts of specific individuals.


Let's see how well the numbers balance down the list, shall we?:

There is no question about Pol Pot - Commie/Authoritarian, no doubt about it.<-- Not religious (and not disputed!)

The Monguls were not Christians or Moslems. If anything their beliefs were more like your Eskimo religion.<-- Religious!

Manchu were possibly believers in Confucianism, but they were just as ruthless as Christians or Moslems.<-- Religious!

Taiping Rebellion was either Buddhism or Confucianism related.<-- RELIGIOUS!

While the Annihilation of the American Indians, might be attributed to Christian, it was in reality a clash of a "Stone Age" culture with one that was moving into the "Industrial Age". <-- NON RELIGIOUS!

Joe Stalin, Mao, a real Communist atheist.<-- Not religious and NOT DISPUTED!

The Mideast Slave trade was run by Moslems, and of course there were ideological perspectives involved as well as a mercantile motive.<-- RELIGIOUS!

The Atlantic Slave could clearly be laid on the hands of Christians.<-- RELIGIOUS!

Timur Lenk was a Turkish Mongul whose conquests rivaled Ghengis Khan. He was not a Christian or Moslem - merely killed lots of them!<-- Not religious, perhaps!

The Kaiser, Archduke Ferdinand, King George, Tsar, and the French were all Christian (but the Turks were Islamic). Although WWII was largely about power and control, Nazism was deeply rooted in christianity <-- Religious!

The Russian Civil War was the Whites (Christians) against the Reds (Atheistic Communist Bolsheviks). Flip a coin, but the Bolsheviks started it! The Czar instituted pogroms against the Jews, <-- Religious!

The Thuggee were a Hindhu cult.<--- Religious!

Rome falls to the pagan Barbarians!<-- "Pagans" had religious beliefs. So did Rome. --RELIGIOUS!

The Thirty Year War involved Christian Europe, again more about power than religion!<--Religious!

The Congo Free State included imperialism and colonialism attributed to a number of European Christian States. It wasn't entirely about religion, however.<-- Religious!

The Chinese Civil War involved atheistic Marxist under Mao, and Buddhists or Confucians under the Nationalist banner. <-- BOTH!

The Crusades<-- Religious!

Spanish Inquisition<-- Religious!

Spanish conquest of South America<-- Religious!

The moslem rape of the Indian Subcontinent stands as one of the greatest genocides in human history. Some 80 million people may have been killed <== RELIGIOUS

The moslem conquest of Europe shortly after the death of the Islam's man-god: muhammud, is impossible to calculate. <-- RELIGIOUS!

Any fair tallying of the numbers will put your communist-Marxist ideology in the running for really "evil" category! HOWEVER – Marxism, which defines an ideology, was the prime motivator for Lenin, Stalin Mao, Pol Pot and Kim Jong. Atheism was not a motivating factor in their atrocities.

So – tally the score. Religion “"wins"”.

What's important to understand though is that it has always been the religions that have perpetrated the greatest horrors, mass murders and suffering. Look around you though, It’s you wonderful religious folks who are suicide bombers, airline hijackers, mass murderers, etc., etc. Hey, it's theists who claim that they have morals of a divine nature to adhere to -- it's theism that claims a "better person" comes from a deep faith. The fact is, it's a sham.

Total numbers is what we were discussing and I was pointing out State Atheism which is politically based killed the most people throughout history. Today, it is associated with secular humanism and socialism. In the past, it was associated with Marxism and Marxist humanism.

Generally speaking, people consider these killings to be politically motivated instead of religious motivations. However, that isn't to state that religion did not play any part. We know of religious based killings and this is going on today. Thus, if someone like RWS, who sounds like a purist, state it's religious-based and that atheism and all other religions are involved, then it is hard to make an argument against it. (Even Buddhism has killed people.) So, in this discussion, it is considered religious killings with a political motivation. For example, the killings in London by Islamicists are against atheists. I suspect the killings in France are the same motivation. Not to say, other religious people aren't killed but I don't think they are the targets.

List of terrorist incidents in London
List of terrorist incidents in London - Wikipedia

List of terrorist incidents in France
List of terrorist incidents in France - Wikipedia

State Atheism is not politically based. Political Ideologies such as communism, Marxism, Leninist political doctrines, etc., do not use atheism as a basis for political doctrine.

BTW, it is nonsensical to suggest that the killings in London or Spain (or elsewhere in Europe), by Islamicists are against atheists.

When Islamic killers slaughtered 191 innocent Spaniards in Madrid, it had nothing to do with Atheists. it was ostensibly provoked by the Aznar administration's decision to send Spanish troops into Iraq as part of the U.S.-led coalition (or the Crusaders, as the mujahideen like to call them). And that's fair in the gee-had playbook. But that horrific terror attack, was also about something less temporal and more profound. It's about the Islamic legal concept of waqf.

In Arabic, waqf can literally mean prevention, restraint, or retention. In Islam, a waqf is any property that has been given for the benefit of islamics, in perpetuity, and to please God. It is essentially making land, or other material, God's property, not to be taken back by anyone. It is an important part of sharia law, and has several purposes. In this case, we are concerned with its ramifications in connection with land—essentially any land previously conquered by Islam.

>>State Atheism is not politically based. Political Ideologies such as communism, Marxism, Leninist political doctrines, etc., do not use atheism as a basis for political doctrine.<<

So wrong. You should read The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx. He explains how to use atheism to further communism. We see that today with secular humanism and socialism as stated already.

This is my post on this as we are off topic.

Yes, I explained that to you. Communism, Marxism, Leninist political doctrines are exactly that: political doctrines. They use many elements to craft, reinforce and bolster social policy.
 
Seriously. Let's look at some of the most crazy mass murders in the world. The Crusades, and the subsequent Inquisitions.

Dictated by somebody's "god".

And it made Christianity rule the world.

Murder, rape, genocide, pedophilia, torture, corruption, and slander, made Christianity what it is today.

That's great stuff to try to live up to, if you're an asshole.

And that also applies to other religions. But Christianity is the bitch, because followers say they are against it, but instead they promote it. To this day, especially the little kid stuff... Fucking sick assholes!

You are wrong again. You do not present any evidence to back it up while I do. State atheism killed more people than any other group or ideology.

Atheist regimes in 20th century alone killed more people than all world religions killed in the last 20 centuries put together.

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,00 people murdered
Jozef Stalin (USSR 1932-39 only) 15,000,000 people murdered
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000 people murdered
Kim II Sung (North Korea 1948-94) 1.6 million people murdered
Tito (Yugoslavia 1945-1987) 570,000 people murdered
Suharto (Communists 1967-66) 500,000 people murdered
Ante Pavelic (Croatia 1941-45) 359,000 people murdered
Ho Chi Min (Vietnam 1953-56) 200,000 people murdered
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 people murdered
Adolf Hitler, secular and anti-religion (Germany 1939-1945) 12,000,000 people murdered

Atheist Murderers
Atheist Murderers

Top 10 People Who Gave Atheism a Bad Name
10 People Who Give Atheism a Bad Name - Listverse

The issue with your simple cutting and pasting is that you're not understanding what you're cutting and pasting.

You're too lazy to actually examine the numbers so I did it for you.

Firstly, your whining regarding Mao and Stalin is mis-placed. Their motivations speak to political ideologies. Your claims to Atheism as the motivation for the atrocities is sweepingly ignorant. The atrocities of communism is overshadowed by the acts of specific individuals.


Let's see how well the numbers balance down the list, shall we?:

There is no question about Pol Pot - Commie/Authoritarian, no doubt about it.<-- Not religious (and not disputed!)

The Monguls were not Christians or Moslems. If anything their beliefs were more like your Eskimo religion.<-- Religious!

Manchu were possibly believers in Confucianism, but they were just as ruthless as Christians or Moslems.<-- Religious!

Taiping Rebellion was either Buddhism or Confucianism related.<-- RELIGIOUS!

While the Annihilation of the American Indians, might be attributed to Christian, it was in reality a clash of a "Stone Age" culture with one that was moving into the "Industrial Age". <-- NON RELIGIOUS!

Joe Stalin, Mao, a real Communist atheist.<-- Not religious and NOT DISPUTED!

The Mideast Slave trade was run by Moslems, and of course there were ideological perspectives involved as well as a mercantile motive.<-- RELIGIOUS!

The Atlantic Slave could clearly be laid on the hands of Christians.<-- RELIGIOUS!

Timur Lenk was a Turkish Mongul whose conquests rivaled Ghengis Khan. He was not a Christian or Moslem - merely killed lots of them!<-- Not religious, perhaps!

The Kaiser, Archduke Ferdinand, King George, Tsar, and the French were all Christian (but the Turks were Islamic). Although WWII was largely about power and control, Nazism was deeply rooted in christianity <-- Religious!

The Russian Civil War was the Whites (Christians) against the Reds (Atheistic Communist Bolsheviks). Flip a coin, but the Bolsheviks started it! The Czar instituted pogroms against the Jews, <-- Religious!

The Thuggee were a Hindhu cult.<--- Religious!

Rome falls to the pagan Barbarians!<-- "Pagans" had religious beliefs. So did Rome. --RELIGIOUS!

The Thirty Year War involved Christian Europe, again more about power than religion!<--Religious!

The Congo Free State included imperialism and colonialism attributed to a number of European Christian States. It wasn't entirely about religion, however.<-- Religious!

The Chinese Civil War involved atheistic Marxist under Mao, and Buddhists or Confucians under the Nationalist banner. <-- BOTH!

The Crusades<-- Religious!

Spanish Inquisition<-- Religious!

Spanish conquest of South America<-- Religious!

The moslem rape of the Indian Subcontinent stands as one of the greatest genocides in human history. Some 80 million people may have been killed <== RELIGIOUS

The moslem conquest of Europe shortly after the death of the Islam's man-god: muhammud, is impossible to calculate. <-- RELIGIOUS!

Any fair tallying of the numbers will put your communist-Marxist ideology in the running for really "evil" category! HOWEVER – Marxism, which defines an ideology, was the prime motivator for Lenin, Stalin Mao, Pol Pot and Kim Jong. Atheism was not a motivating factor in their atrocities.

So – tally the score. Religion “"wins"”.

What's important to understand though is that it has always been the religions that have perpetrated the greatest horrors, mass murders and suffering. Look around you though, It’s you wonderful religious folks who are suicide bombers, airline hijackers, mass murderers, etc., etc. Hey, it's theists who claim that they have morals of a divine nature to adhere to -- it's theism that claims a "better person" comes from a deep faith. The fact is, it's a sham.
A couple of differences there, but otherwise.... high five!!!!

What a great post!
 
How many times do I have to say... Socialism and Nazism are religions.

You can't get mass amounts of people to willfully kill and die, unless they believe in a religion. Or are defending against a religion.

Religion is the tool to create wars. And none of them are true.

No one's denying that, but stating atheism murdered the most people. When one has no objective morality, these things happen. Or are you too hypocritical to be able to admit it?

Socialism and Nazism together murdered the most people. But those are religions as I've stated. Christianity is a very close 2nd. Jews and Muslims are very close 3rds.

Being an atheist has nothing to do with that. We just scratch our heads wondering how people can be so crazy...

Why not get along?
Christianity killed NO ONE. Anyone who murders the innocent is NOT a practicing Christian. The Christian faith condemns murder. Islam and Atheism does not.
wow, really?
 
Speaking of which, to get back to the topic, do monkeys/apes kill each other besides survival? In other words, they may do it for fun or pleasure.
They may kill each other, but it's usually over domination.

Just like religious humans.
 
We're no different

We're just like other apes and monkeys. And other mammals, and reptiles and fish, and probably those fake dinosaurs too!
 
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2009-02-18-cartoon.jpg


Bigly!

That'll teach them to go monkeying up 5th Ave.
 
Speaking of which, to get back to the topic, do monkeys/apes kill each other besides survival? In other words, they may do it for fun or pleasure.

Support your statement that monkeys/apes may kill each other for fun.

I asked a question. Can you answer it?

You made an utterly indefensible statement which you obviously cannot support.

Why chimpanzees attack and kill each other

Bands of chimpanzees violently kill individuals from neighboring groups in order to expand their own territory, according to a 10-year study of a chimp community in Uganda that provides the first definitive evidence for this long-suspected function of this behavior.

Read more at: Why chimpanzees attack and kill each other

For myself, I'll cite Jane Goodall's study of chimpanzees as the natural analogy to human tribal customs that evolves into law (and which codes morality). Furthermore, we consistently see humans -- with no specific religious connotation, have survival-based laws that preclude wanton murder and thievery. Further still, we see simple indigenous tribes have better morality than industrial nations have -- for instance, many tribes have no concept of thievery because they communally share everything.

You made a statement that you refuse to support. Can you support it?

Again, I asked a question to get back on topic. I don't think it's just territorial, but to attract better mates. Both exhibit behaviors to attract better mates.

Monkey Reproduction - Monkey Facts and Information

Here's two troubling, puzzling videos though which triggered my question. They are attacking their own as food and also killing a defenseless baby. Graphic, so you may not want to watch. Your link discusses it and tries to tie it to human warfare which has nothing to do with it. The so-called apes to humans theory is suppose to be the other way. They can be trained to be social and domesticated, but the wild monkeys are dangerous to humans.



 

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