Do you have a problem with Tennessee's "curbs [for] trans treatment and drag for children"?

[Jessica-stormlover]

But you don’t give a shit if that same girl is blown apart in a mask shooting event.

Oh wait… I forgot “thoughts and prayers”

Sadly, that is what it is really about. The same shit that develops the taliban to be who they're also drives these conservatives. They're anti-science freaks that only believe in stone age religious trash to shape their world views. Sadly, this means people have to fucking suffer.

 

[Robz]

Link?

Sure

Discusses social contagion. Best not to medicate trans youth. Majorities desist. And more.

Translaki | Nuoruusiän sukupuoliahdistusta hoitava professori sanoo ei alaikäisten juridisen sukupuolen korjaukselle

Nuoruusiässä identiteetin rakennus on kesken. Aikuisten ei pitäisi ryhtyä vahvistamaan eikä hillitsemään identiteettikokeiluja, jotka kuuluvat kasvuun, sanoo nuorisopsykiatrian professori Riittakerttu Kaltiala.

www.hs.fi

And here is the entire quote related to suicide:

ACTIVISTS AND ORGANIZATIONS THAT DEMAND HORMONE TREATMENTS AND LEGAL GENDER CONFIRMATION FOR MINORS , such as Seta, often repeat that trans youth have an increased risk of suicide and therefore urgently need treatment and support.

"It's purposeful disinformation, the spreading of which is irresponsible," says Kaltiala.


According to him, suicidal thoughts and behavior are also related to concurrent psychiatric disorders in young people who are considering their gender.


"Mentally healthy young people who experience their gender in a way that differs from their biological body are not automatically suicidal."


Suicide was a very rare event in the material of young people who applied for gender identity studies over a ten-year period.


On the other hand, in a large Swedish registry study, suicide mortality was clearly increased among adults who received gender reassignment treatments.


"Therefore, it is not justified to tell the parents of young people experiencing transgenderism that the young person is at risk of suicide without corrective treatment and that the danger can be countered with gender reassignment treatment," says Kaltiala.

 

[Robz]

This one looks at 56 studies and analyzes the results:

• Of 56 peer-reviewed studies, 52 (93 percent) found that gender transition improves the overall well-being of transgender people. The other 7 percent reported mixed or null findings. None of the reviewed studies showed that gender transition harms well-bein

You didn't provide a link for this, but it sounds like the abandoned "what we know project". Is it? I have not read all of the studies there, but have read quite a few. Did you happen to notice that many of the studies in the "shows benefit" category often don't show a benefit.

Is there one specific study they list that you think is very strong evidence that medicalization of kids is beneficial?

 

[Seymour Flops]

If you are going to claim “harm”, then you need actual data showing that, not personal testimonials.

If the harm is minimal then any benefit is that much more important.

Who would do a study and collect the data of the harm done to children given "gender affirming" hormones? Pfizer isn't going to fund that one, and anyone who does fund it will be attacked in media and by government. So no one studies that and the purpose of the attacks is fulfilled.

Really now? You’ve examined those studies? Here are some.

Better mental health found among transgender people who started hormones as teens

Transgender adults who started gender-affirming hormone therapy as teens had better mental health than those who waited until adulthood or wanted the treatment but never received it, a Stanford-led study found.

med.stanford.edu

That's not a study, it is an opinion piece about a study that the authors of the opinion don't link.

This one analyzes numerous studies looking at risks of hormone treatment:

The effects of gender-affirming hormone therapy on cardiovascular and skeletal health: A literature review

Approximately 1.5 million people in the United States currently identify as transgender. The use of gender affirming hormone therapy is integral to routine clinical care of transgender individuals, yet our understanding of the effects of this therapy ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

That's a study about cardivascular and skeletal benefits of hormones. If that study is valid, it argues for giving "gender affirming" care to everyone. Or it could simply mean that male hormones build strong bones, which makes sense.

This one looks at 56 studies and analyzes the results:

• Of 56 peer-reviewed studies, 52 (93 percent) found that gender transition improves the overall well-being of transgender people. The other 7 percent reported mixed or null findings. None of the reviewed studies showed that gender transition harms well-being.

No link to that study.

That is usually the first option, along with counseling…”social transitioning”, and I agree with it. If this is just a fad, it won’t last. Unfortunately, doing so is illegal in certain states.

In what state is it "illegal" to get counselling or to socially transition?

I think you mean that it is illegal in some states for schools to push it on very young children without informing parents.

Let the parents, in consultation with their doctor and child figure out the best of action. That is how it should be.

Left too long figure “figure things out” might mean those who can’t end up suicides.

Parents, yes. We agree on that. There are no studies showing increases in suicides for children who are not given hormones in an attempt to change their gender, only a supposed increase in suicidal ideation, in the study sponsored by Pfizer. If you are going to claim that children left to figure things out “end up in suicides”, then you need actual data showing that, not personal testimonials.

 

[HeyNorm]

Sadly, that is what it is really about. The same shit that develops the taliban to be who they're also drives these conservatives. They're anti-science freaks that only believe in stone age religious trash to shape their world views. Sadly, this means people have to fucking suffer.

Starts losing debate - draws religion in

 

[Robz]

That's a study about cardivascular and skeletal benefits of hormones. If that study is valid, it argues for giving "gender affirming" care to everyone. Or it could simply mean that male hormones build strong bones, which makes sense.

I have not looked at the bone density studies in a bit. What they show is that bone density does not build while using blockers When the kids go on CSH, the bone density will increase but will never reach the level of non blocked kids. In some bones, it's less of a difference than in others.

There was an article a while ago showing the health problems of straight, "normal" kids that had taken blockers when young for purposes of "being taller". Documenting the health consequences they faced and lawsuits the companies that manufactured them were facing.

Women fear drug they used to halt puberty led to health problems

Despite questions about Lupron’s lasting side effects and minimal study into its safety, the FDA sped approval of the drug to market.

www-pbs-org.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Seymour Flops]

I have not looked at the bone density studies in a bit. What they show is that bone density does not build while using blockers When the kids go on CSH, the bone density will increase but will never reach the level of non blocked kids. In some bones, it's less of a difference than in others.

There was an article a while ago showing the health problems of straight, "normal" kids that had taken blockers when young for purposes of "being taller". Documenting the health consequences they faced and lawsuits the companies that manufactured them were facing.

Women fear drug they used to halt puberty led to health problems

Despite questions about Lupron’s lasting side effects and minimal study into its safety, the FDA sped approval of the drug to market.

www-pbs-org.cdn.ampproject.org

You seem very knowledgable about it. I'll admit I prefer to find flaws in studies promoting the transgenderization of kids rather than proactively look for opposing research. I glad you're doing that.

We are still allowed to use common sense. We need not bow to politically and profit motivated pseudo-science. Common sense tells us it is a bad idea to allow adults to chemically alter children in an attempt to make them conform to an adult's idea of what the child's appearance should be.

 

[Dragonlady]

You seem very knowledgable about it. I'll admit I prefer to find flaws in studies promoting the transgenderization of kids rather than proactively look for opposing research. I glad you're doing that.

We are still allowed to use common sense. We need not bow to politically and profit motivated pseudo-science. Common sense tells us it is a bad idea to allow adults to chemically alter children in an attempt to make them conform to an adult's idea of what the child's appearance should be.

I would like to know why the State hasn't gone after USA Gymnastics, or the US Figure Skating Association both of which have been feeding puberty blockers to children for generations. A fact which has been widely known.

Why aren't they banning parents from taking their children to Catholic Churches which have paid out billions worldwide for sexually abusing children in their care?????

Why don't they go after plastic surgeons who turn people into monsters???

 

[Robz]

We are still allowed to use common sense. We need not bow to politically and profit motivated pseudo-science. Common sense tells us it is a bad idea to allow adults to chemically alter children in an attempt to make them conform to an adult's idea of what the child's appearance should be.

It seems i agree with you. It's fine if an adult chooses this for themselves. I have no doubt it helps a some percentage of them. With kids, it's a different story. The studies currently out, do not prove benefit of medical intervention over doing nothing. There are grandiose claims, but those are often walked back or just made up by the activists performing the studies.

Just one example of this occuring (there are others).

Rantz: Despite 'concerning' transgender study, UW kept quiet because of positive coverage

Emails show UW Medicine stayed quiet on corrections to a transgender study because it already received positive coverage.

mynorthwest-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Robz]

I would like to know why the State hasn't gone after USA Gymnastics, or the US Figure Skating Association both of which have been feeding puberty blockers to children for generations. A fact which has been widely known.

Why aren't they banning parents from taking their children to Catholic Churches which have paid out billions worldwide for sexually abusing children in their care?????

Why don't they go after plastic surgeons who turn people into monsters???

I had never seen a before picture of her. She was a beautiful lady.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

I’ll reiterate what I said to another poster.


Surgery on minors is extremely rare and I don’t have an issue with opposing it under 18.

However…that surgery argument is a strawman. You are using it to deflect.

The real issue is banning the use of puberty blockers, hormones or counseling that affirms gender identity.

This is a group with high rates of suicide and attempted suicide. The recommended therapies (not including surgery) have been shown to significantly reduce rates of suicide ideation and attempts.

Now that you have succeeded in banning these therapies in many states, what do you propose replacing them with? Has anything else showed a similar rate of improvement?

I don’t give a shit how rare it is. Whenever it does happen the doctors, nurses and any other support staff involved need to be sent to prison. They can be in the cell block next to anyone prescribing or giving puberty blockers to kids since those are just as destructive as the surgery. It has zero positive effects concerning suicide or anything else.

Here’s what you do. You get them some mental counciling and let them grow up. When they turn 18 they can make these decisions for themselves. The majority will grow out of their childish fantasies. Those that don’t? That’s the way it goes sometimes.

So instead of re-iterating how about you stop promoting and cheering on this child mutilation. You’re disgusting.

 

[Dragonlady]

I don’t give a shit how rare it is. Whenever it does happen the doctors, nurses and any other support staff involved need to be sent to prison. They can be in the cell block next to anyone prescribing or giving puberty blockers to kids since those are just as destructive as the surgery. It has zero positive effects concerning suicide or anything else.

Here’s what you do. You get them some mental counciling and let them grow up. When they turn 18 they can make these decisions for themselves. The majority will grow out of their childish fantasies. Those that don’t? That’s the way it goes sometimes.

So instead of re-iterating how about you stop promoting and cheering on this child mutilation. You’re disgusting.

By "rare", she means "never". So you have laws being passed against stuff that isn't happening, while ignoring the very real harms being done to children by the state's interference with the parents' rights and their physicians' guidance in their care and upbringing.

I trust these people to know what's best for these children far more than I trust idiots like YOU to decide that it's weird and sick, and should never happen, and the anti-gay/trans hate group that the Republican Party has become. For families who are dealing with the crisis of having a trans child, they are terrified as they are being legally prevented from getting help for their children, many of whom are already suicidal.

 

[Robz]

By "rare", she means "never". So you have laws being passed against stuff that isn't happening,

If i could prove surgeries on minors, would you be against that or would you justify... going to "it doesn't happen, but it's good that it does"?

 

[Seymour Flops]

I would like to know why the State hasn't gone after USA Gymnastics, or the US Figure Skating Association both of which have been feeding puberty blockers to children for generations. A fact which has been widely known.

I had no idea that was happening. It is absurdly inappropriate and harmful and should be banned. Any "doctor" who prescribes athletic performance enhancing drugs of any kind should be removed from the practice forever.

Why aren't they banning parents from taking their children to Catholic Churches which have paid out billions worldwide for sexually abusing children in their care?????

We would also need to ban parents from taking kids to public school due to rapes by boys allowed in girls restrooms if we follow that logic.

Why don't they go after plastic surgeons who turn people into monsters???

In general, I believe in allowing adults to do as they choose. he medical establishment should be policing themselves better than to encourage that.

 

[Frankenstein]

Tennessee curbs trans treatment and drag for children

The governor signs the laws as questions are asked about an old photo apparently of him in women's clothing.

www.bbc.com

Tennessee is putting in a place a law, Tennessee, right wing, religious, not very friendly towards LGBT.

The law bans "drag performances in front of children and restricting medical treatment for transgender youth."


Does anyone have a problem with this?
Drag performances are SEXUAL. Kids should not be going to strip clubs, they should not have anyone performing sexual or sex based dances. I even think that thinks twirking should be banned from videos that kids can get their hands on. The amount of obscene stuff that is allowed to be open to everyone seems like "free speech gone too far".

As for the treatment for transgender youths, no kid should be allowed to have such a LIFE ALTERING operation at such a young age. Most teenagers are FUCKED UP in the head going through hormone changes, they need time as an adult to make such decisions.

And most importantly they need (which they won't get in Tennessee, will they?) mental healthcare possibilities.

A lot of transgender people are dealing with mental health issues, and I believe many might think their problems will be solved by having this surgery. What is needed, and needed to start as soon as possible is a study on mental health and transgender people so that healthcare professionals can help such people as early as possible, so they don't end up destroying their lives for a mistaken hope.

Problem is they do not keep it in strip clubs

Drag story hour hosts, under attack, dig in their heels

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Protesters pray outside a library in New York City as Flame, a drag queen sporting a bright wig and a red gown, entertains the children inside by singing the ABCs, leading a coloring activity and reading books about how it’s OK to be different.

apnews.com

 

[Frankenstein]

The GOP hates little girls like this living their best lives. What a bunch of assholes.

He is mentally ill! Kind of like you

 

[Frankenstein]

So despite me posting a video of one giving her testimony the GOP members crawl into their little shells to pretend these people don't exist. Their assholes and cowards.

She isn't trans anything, he is still a boy, has no uterus and cannot be pregnant, you should be hung for supporting this insanity.

 

[Seymour Flops]

I had no idea that was happening. It is absurdly inappropriate and harmful and should be banned. Any "doctor" who prescribes athletic performance enhancing drugs of any kind should be removed from the practice forever.

We would also need to ban parents from taking kids to public school due to rapes by boys allowed in girls restrooms if we follow that logic.

In general, I believe in allowing adults to do as they choose. he medical establishment should be policing themselves better than to encourage that.

Sorry Coyote ! I did not answer your actual question but a different one. I don't like it when posters do that to me so I apologize.

As to why there aren't laws being passed Banning puberty blockers for gymnast and figure skaters, it's because it is not getting as much publicity as puberty blockers for supposedly transgender children. I would say the reason for that is that the crazy a stage mothers giving their kids puberty blockers for gymnastics and figure skating are doing just that giving it to their own kids. Not my kids, and not my grandkids.

The current controversy is so strong due to schools and teachers announcing that they have a duty to override the will of parents in "helping" students socially, chemically, and surgically transition. In truth, there is no transition. There is only alteration. Altering a person's name and pronouns is not particularly harmful in my opinion and is something we should be tolerant of.

I know many opponents of the child transgenderization movement will disagree. But to them I say, if a child's claim of transgenderism is a phase, as it will be in the overwhelming majority of cases, then respecting the child's feelings at that moment will make it much easier for them to respect their own feelings when they change their minds. Refusing to respect their wishes may only Galvanize their feelings and turn what could have been a phase of silliness into angry rebellion expressex through continued insistence on the claim of transgenderism.

Letting kids learn from their own mistakes was a key part of old school parenting. Still, it is parenting and parenting is a very private matter Within families. I don't criticize someone who refuses to acknowledge their child's wishes.

 

[Seymour Flops]

By "rare", she means "never". So you have laws being passed against stuff that isn't happening, while ignoring the very real harms being done to children by the state's interference with the parents' rights and their physicians' guidance in their care and upbringing.

Chloe’s story: puberty blockers at 13, a double mastectomy at 15 | MercatorNet

Chloe Cole, has testified before legislators about her sex-transition experience at the hands of gender-affirming doctors.

mercatornet.com

The California State Assembly has been studying a bill, SB 107, to declare the state a sanctuary for minors who have been denied transgender -affirming medicine and surgery elsewhere.

SB 107 would permit insurance companies, physicians, and contractors to disregard subpoenas about child custody if the child is being medically treated for gender dysphoria. It would also ban health care providers from providing medical information requested from another state if that state has a policy allowing civil action to be taken against individuals who perform “gender-affirming health care” on children.

A young California woman, Chloe Cole, has testified before legislators in her own state, in Louisiana, and in Florida about her experience at the hands of gender-affirming doctors. She began to transition to a male at 13; she had a double mastectomy at 15; and she detransitioned at 17. Her brief speech lays bare the iniquity of doctors and psychologists who exploit the confusion of children and adolescents.

My name is Chloe Cole, and I am from the Central Valley of California and a former transgender child patient. I am currently 17 years old and was medically transitioning from ages 13-16.

After I came out to my parents as a transgender boy at 12, I consulted a pediatric therapist in July of 2017 and was diagnosed with dysphoria by a ‘gender specialist’ the following month. The healthcare workers are trained to strictly follow the affirmative care system, even for child patients, in part because of California’s ‘conversion therapy’ ban. There was very little gatekeeping or other treatments suggested for my dysphoria.

When my parents asked about the efficacy of hormonal, surgical, and otherwise ‘affirming’ treatments in dysphoric children, their concerns were very quickly brushed aside by medical professionals. I didn’t even know detransitioners existed until I was one.

The only person who didn’t affirm me was the first endocrinologist I met. He refused to put me on blockers and expressed concerns for my cognitive development. However, it was easy to see another endocrinologist to get a prescription for blockers and testosterone, just like getting a getting a second opinion for any other medical concern. After only two or three appointments with the second endocrinologist, I was given paperwork and consent forms for puberty blockers (Lupron) and androgens (Depo-Testosterone), respectively. I began blockers in February of 2018, and one month later, I received my first testosterone shot. I received Lupron shots for about a year.

After two years on testosterone, I expressed to my therapist that I was seeking top surgery, or the removal of my breasts. I was recommended to another gender specialist, who then sent me to a gender-affirming surgeon. After my first consultation with the surgeon, my parents and I were encouraged to attend a ‘top surgery’ class, which had about 12 Female-to-Male (FTM) kids. I was immediately struck by how early some of them seemed in their transition and how some were much younger than I was; I was 15 at the time and had been transitioning for 3 years.

In retrospect, the class inadvertently helped to affirm my decision because of the sense of community provided by seeing girls like me going through the same thing. Despite all these consultations and classes, I don’t feel like I understood all the ramifications that came with any of the medical decisions I was making. I didn’t realize how traumatic the recovery would be, and it wasn’t until I was almost a year post-op, that I realized I may want to breastfeed my future children; I will never be able to do that as a mother.

The worst part about my transition would be the long-term health effects that I didn’t knowingly consent to at the time. I developed urinary tract issues during my transition that seem to have gotten worse since stopping testosterone. I have been getting blood clots in my urine and have an inability to fully empty my bladder. Because my reproductive system was still developing while I was on testosterone, the overall function of it is completely unknown. I have irreversible changes, and I may face complications for the rest of my life.

I was failed by modern medicine.”

This is the problem. Once a child is turned over the the child transgenderization industry, all they see are "gender specialists" and other kids that are part of the movement. It is a cult-like operation, complete with the child sexual exploitation that nearly all cults practice.

 

[Robz]

This is the problem. Once a child is turned over the the child transgenderization industry, all they see are "gender specialists" and other kids that are part of the movement. It is a cult-like operation, complete with the child sexual exploitation that nearly all cults practice.

There is proof of top surgeries from 12 and castration and neo vagina creation from 15. I wanted to see what she would say to my question first, though. I suspect she would instantly change from "it doesn't happen" to "its a great thing that it happens", as has become very common among some on the left. It's quite odd.