Do You SUPPORT Finding a Cure for Cancer?

[Cecilie1200]

Y

Did you bother to read the article you triumphantly produced as "proof" of what you want to believe? Did you see what the "poorer healthcare outcomes" are that you're trumpeting? Let me enlighten you.

"Life expectancy in the U.S. was the lowest of all 11 countries in the study, at 78.8 years; the range for other countries was 80.7 to 83.9 years."

Life expectancy, as you clearly are not aware, is not a result of healthcare.

"Overall, quality of care in the U.S. isn’t markedly different from that of other countries, and in fact excels in many areas. For example, the U.S. appears to have the best outcomes for those who have heart attacks or strokes, but is below average for avoidable hospitalizations for patients with diabetes and asthma."

Oh, look, one of your major points refuted by your own article.

For the record, those are the ONLY mentions of "poorer healthcare outcomes" in the entire article. That's it. That's all they have. "The US has a lower life expectancy than other countries." Never mind that there are large numbers of factors at play in the US life expectancy that have not a damned thing to do with healthcare.
[/QUOTE]
Yes I did read the article. That the US has the worst health outcomes is known to everyone, except perhaps some Americans and this article confirms this. That was my point, The poster was denying it and to you it appears to be something which has got your shoulders prickled. Learn to live with it or change it but stop feeling so godly when you are denying information known to the whole world. You pay on average twice as much for your health care as the other most wealthy countries but you have the poorest outcome. Have a cup of tea and face reality. What the article was suggesting was that the reason for this situation is not what is believed.
[/QUOTE]

I just heard, "I'm SURE that this is settled fact, so I didn't need to care that my own article didn't support me!"

I understood your point, Twinkie, so spare me the belabored explanation of your "brilliance" that I must have just missed, because that's the only way I could possibly continue to think you're dead wrong.

Yes, people spouting talking points that are utterly incorrect, and trying to substantiate them with articles that directly contradict them, then going right ahead with their idiocy when the facts are pointed out to them, does indeed "make my shoulders prickly", whatever the fuck that actually means. Stupidity is very offensive to me.

One more time for the "I don't need no facts, I already know what I'm going to believe!" amongst us: YOUR OWN ARTICLE says that the only evidence it has of "worse outcomes" is life expectancy rates, which have nothing to do with healthcare. Furthermore, YOUR OWN ARTICLE also says quality of care in the United States is "not markedly different from other countries, and excels in some areas".

So, "Well, everyone knows this, so just accept it and argue as though it's true" is not a valid answer. And no post from you will in any way be considered worthy of reading until you acknowledge that.

Do better, or begone and leave space for someone with intelligent things to say. My time is too important to be taken up by fools.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Ray from Cleveland

They simply pointed out that things are what I said. US citizens pay around 2 times as much for their healthcare but have the poorest outcomes. It is top Universities, Unless it is one of those very rare scandals their information will be accurate.

"My article said what I wanted it to say. I don't care that it said the opposite. It said what I want, because I WANT it to have said it. Now just accept it and argue as though I'm right!"

Continued failure as a thinking person.

 

[Ralph Norton]

Do you support funding research to find a cure to Cancer once and for all? Do you feel this is fair to folks in the past who had Cancer but had to suffer with no cure? What about the folks who have successfully beaten Cancer and lived to tell about it, would it be fair to them if we find a cure after they went through hell and all that hard work to beat it?


Thank you

To even ask this question shows how completely and utterly brainless you are.
Thank you

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

They simply pointed out that things are what I said. US citizens pay around 2 times as much for their healthcare but have the poorest outcomes. It is top Universities, Unless it is one of those very rare scandals their information will be accurate.

No, your article touched lightly on outcomes and provided no data for their claim. Most all of the world goes by WHO standards and their determinations. So if they are not using the WTO, then what are they using and what did they find?

I know our healthcare is expensive and I pointed out why. Everything in this country is political. But I also stated that every system in the world has problems. If not waiting times, the availability of medications, doctors, specialists and so on. We have an old saying in America: You get what you pay for. Healthcare is like any other industry. When you pay your employees the most, you will likely get the best employees that can be found.

In the US we understand how our politicians are trying to gain more and more control over the people, especially the Democrats. So what could happen to us if we give in to government healthcare?

Fat in Japan? You're breaking the law. - The World from PRX

As the health care debate rages in the US, Tokyo lawmakers set a maximum waist size. Are you too fat for Japan?

theworld.org

Obese patients and smokers banned from routine surgery in 'most severe ever' rationing in the NHS

Obese people will be routinely refused operations across the NHS, health service bosses have warned, after one authority said it would limit procedures on an unprecedented scale.

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[alexa]

No, your article touched lightly on outcomes and provided no data for their claim. Most all of the world goes by WHO standards and their determinations. So if they are not using the WTO, then what are they using and what did they find?

I know our healthcare is expensive and I pointed out why. Everything in this country is political. But I also stated that every system in the world has problems. If not waiting times, the availability of medications, doctors, specialists and so on. We have an old saying in America: You get what you pay for. Healthcare is like any other industry. When you pay your employees the most, you will likely get the best employees that can be found.

In the US we understand how our politicians are trying to gain more and more control over the people, especially the Democrats. So what could happen to us if we give in to government healthcare?

Fat in Japan? You're breaking the law. - The World from PRX

As the health care debate rages in the US, Tokyo lawmakers set a maximum waist size. Are you too fat for Japan?

theworld.org

Obese patients and smokers banned from routine surgery in 'most severe ever' rationing in the NHS

Obese people will be routinely refused operations across the NHS, health service bosses have warned, after one authority said it would limit procedures on an unprecedented scale.

www.telegraph.co.uk

That is irrelevant. The one issue you had with me was that i said that the US had the most expensive healthcare among rich countries and the poorest outcomes. This is a well known fact. The article talks about it. I have discovered while talking to you that you actually know that you have very poor outcomes. The article was reporting on research on that and said that the well worn reasons people suspected were likely not accurate. Now one thing you pulled me up on. The US has the poorest outcomes among rich developed countries despite spending about twice as much on healthcare. That is what you had denied. If you now acknowledge it is true then we can end this conversation. If you do not accept it is true then you are ignoring almost the entire world who know this and I very much doubt this is the case. You clearly do know.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That is irrelevant. The one issue you had with me was that i said that the US had the most expensive healthcare among rich countries and the poorest outcomes. This is a well known fact. The article talks about it. I have discovered while talking to you that you actually know that you have very poor outcomes. The article was reporting on research on that and said that the well worn reasons people suspected were likely not accurate. Now one thing you pulled me up on. The US has the poorest outcomes among rich developed countries despite spending about twice as much on healthcare. That is what you had denied. If you now acknowledge it is true then we can end this conversation. If you do not accept it is true then you are ignoring almost the entire world who know this and I very much doubt this is the case. You clearly do know.

First off I have no issues with you. Thus far it's been a pretty civilized conversation; that doesn't happen here much between two people on the opposite sides. Secondly I read the entire link you posted, and all it did was make some unfounded claim we have the worst results. It didn't say what they were basing that statement on, where they got their data from, what medical conditions they were speaking of, nothing. Just a generic statement.

I have no idea where you get this notion "it's a well known fact." If everybody knows except us, then were do they know this from? I would be willing to bet from the WHO. Where else would they get this idea from? And if it is the WHO, then I read that reporting from years ago, and their entire argument is we don't have socialized healthcare. That's it. They look at life expectancy only and make their judgement based on that as Cecilie1200 explained already. Also what was explained by both of us is that life expectancy is not always related to healthcare here or anyplace else for that matter.

If our healthcare was so bad, why are we loaded with people from other countries that have socialized medical care and (according to you) get better results than we do?