Do You View Socialism Positively?

[Derideo_Te]

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Your ignorance as to the definition of socialism doesn't alter the definition.

National Parks, police, fire depts, etc are all socialist by definition.

All of which are paid for by those who pay fed taxes which is roughly the top 50% of earners and corporations. The bottom 50% and all non-earners get a free ride.

100% of all taxpayers pay FICA taxes which is funding government spending.

Woo, Disingenuous much?
FICA taxes are Social Security and Medicare, both gov't mandated retirement INSURANCE policies.
The money that pays for our roads, parks, military, gov't operations, etc., etc., etc., is confiscated from the top 50% of earners and corporations. The bottom 50% and all non-earners get a free ride.

Woo, Disingenuous much?

Ironic!

What ... no defense of your bogus claim that all earners pay to fund the federal cost of operating America? I'm not surprised because it isn't true and I suspect you knew it when you made that claim. Thus, disingenuous.
Now see if you can support your "ironic" claim.

Money is fungible. There is no "lockbox" that says that taxes collected under FICA can only be spent for a single purpose. That you pretend otherwise is your problem. Taxes are collected from 100% of all taxpayers. That is an indisputable fact. The onus is still on you to prove that only funds "confiscated" (gotta when you use that ridiculous terminology) is used for roads, parks, police, etc.

 

[SAYIT]

Your ignorance as to the definition of socialism doesn't alter the definition.

National Parks, police, fire depts, etc are all socialist by definition.

All are paid for by those who pay fed taxes which is roughly the top 50% of earners and corporations. The bottom 50% and all non-earners get a free ride.

100% of all taxpayers pay FICA taxes which is funding government spending.

Woo, Disingenuous much?
FICA taxes are Social Security and Medicare, both gov't mandated INSURANCE policies.
The money that pays for our roads, parks, military, gov't operations, etc., etc., etc., is confiscated from the top 50% of earners and corporations. The bottom 50% and all non-earners get a free ride.

Woo, Disingenuous much?

Ironic!

Don't all you servile liberal turds all claim that FICA taxes don't go into the general fund?

Though there seems little to keep our elected officials from doing just that, FICA "taxes" are actually federally mandated retirement insurance premiums and are not to be used for any other purpose. Technically the gov't "borrows" FICA funds to cover current budget shortfalls.
Derido's claim that FICA funds are used for general expenditures (his way of "proving" that all taxpayers fund fed expenses) is just not true.
Roughly the bottom 50% of fed tax payers get a free ride on the backs of corporations and the upper 50%.

 

[Ibentoken]

All the changes were made purely for the benefit of politicians and their minions, not for the benefit of the people. The laws of economics do not change over time. If the government is set up correctly in the beginning, then it doesn't require changes in the rules. However, there have always been servile statist toadies bent on converting the USA from a nation of free people to a nation of serfs.

You've said many dumb things on this board - but that may be the dumbest. Corporations are constantly "gaming" the system - so government must change the rules to keep up. The founders didn't envision the world we currently live in. Things change. Shit happens. It ain't rocket science...

Free enterprise capitalism is from our founders. They sure didn't envision the government regulating our life from cradle to grave.

Does "free enterprise capitalism" mean government passing laws to help industry? As soon as the new government was in office they passed a bill helping industry.

No, it doesn't mean that. "Laizzes faire" means the government doesn't get involved at all. It doesn't regulate industry, and it doesn't help industry.

Is "laissez-faire" mentioned in the Constitution?

Yeah, right after abortion.

 

[Ibentoken]

It isn't the name, it's the system people live under. Call it whatever you want, I want to minimize what the state takes from me to redistribute to others and pet projects. We were not formed as a socialist country, capitalism made us number one and moving away from it is lowering quality of life and freedom for most of us. Putting a happy face on socialism to sell to the masses isn't going to improve our economy.

As a democracy continually makes adjustments to meet the needs of the people so our economic system makes changes to meet the needs of the people. We cannot keep either our government or our economic systems as they were in 1787. By making changes America has kept both its political system and economic system alive and well, Had we tried to keep them the same as in 1787 we might have lost both.
One of our big economic problems is keeping capitalism capitalistic.

All the changes were made purely for the benefit of politicians and their minions, not for the benefit of the people. The laws of economics do not change over time. If the government is set up correctly in the beginning, then it doesn't require changes in the rules. However, there have always been servile statist toadies bent on converting the USA from a nation of free people to a nation of serfs.

You've said many dumb things on this board - but that may be the dumbest. Corporations are constantly "gaming" the system - so government must change the rules to keep up. The founders didn't envision the world we currently live in. Things change. Shit happens. It ain't rocket science...

Free enterprise capitalism is from our founders. They sure didn't envision the government regulating our life from cradle to grave.

REALLY? Then there should be plenty of empirical evidence. Why don't you provide some?

Read a history book.

 

[Ibentoken]

Why did the founders bother to write a Constitution if they weren't trying to make our lives better?

The men who founded this nation were eagles. A sheep can't understand.

 

[SAYIT]

AIPAC

Nonsense. Here are the top 20 all time campaign donors from opensecrets.

The top 1 is the Dem PAC ActBlue. 12 of the 20 are unions - supporting the Dems. And then we have the banksters who support both parties.

View attachment 32144


Heavy Hitters Top All-Time Donors 1989-2014 OpenSecrets

Using that time frame to hide the Libertarian donations of the Koch Bros?

Have a problem with George Soros?

Please provide an example of a single nation that operates under a libertarian government.

When will liberal turds ever tire of asking this question that proves absolutely nothing?

When cornered by real facts they resort to "the Clinton Defense," which is to demand what "the definition of is, is."

 

[Lakhota]

Why did the founders bother to write a Constitution if they weren't trying to make our lives better?

The men who founded this nation were eagles. A sheep can't understand.

Yeah, they were writing with feathers in the light of kerosene lamps.

 

[Ibentoken]

Why did the founders bother to write a Constitution if they weren't trying to make our lives better?

The men who founded this nation were eagles. A sheep can't understand.

Yeah, they were writing with feathers in the light of kerosene lamps.

You don't understand. You're a sheep. You want government to take care of you from cradle to grave.

 

[MrDVS1]

The poll question: "Just off the top of your head, would you say you have a positive or negative image of socialism?"

Dems/left leaning - 53% pos ... 41% neg
Repubs/right leaning - 17% pos ... 79% neg
All Americans - 36% pos ... 68% neg

Strangely, Americans are almost unanimously positive about small biz (95%) and very positive about free enterprise (86%) and entrepreneurs (84%), all of which are contrary to socialism.

Socialism Viewed Positively by 36 of Americans

The economy is a sham, the free market a complete lie, people will eventually figure out that ending this nonsense called the economy, which is nothing more than a game of Monopoly that the wealthy are playing with everyone's life, is the way to go and only the greedy and oppressive at heart will mind

 

[Rikurzhen]

The paragraph I posted does a good job of explaining socialism.

"Socialism is not a political system, it's a way of distributing goods and services."

Here is an expanded view...

What is Socialism?
Central to the meaning of socialism is common ownership. This means the resources of the world being owned in common by the entire global population.

But does it really make sense for everybody to own everything in common? Of course, some goods tend to be for personal consumption, rather than to share—clothes, for example. People 'owning' certain personal possessions does not contradict the principle of a society based upon common ownership.

In practice, common ownership will mean everybody having the right to participate in decisions on how global resources will be used. It means nobody being able to take personal control of resources, beyond their own personal possessions.

Democratic control is therefore also essential to the meaning of socialism. Socialism will be a society in which everybody will have the right to participate in the social decisions that affect them. These decisions could be on a wide range of issues—one of the most important kinds of decision, for example, would be how to organise the production of goods and services.

Production under socialism would be directly and solely for use. With the natural and technical resources of the world held in common and controlled democratically, the sole object of production would be to meet human needs. This would entail an end to buying, selling and money. Instead, we would take freely what we had communally produced. The old slogan of "from each according to ability, to each according to needs" would apply.

So how would we decide what human needs are? This question takes us back to the concept of democracy, for the choices of society will reflect their needs. These needs will, of course, vary among different cultures and with individual preferences—but the democratic system could easily be designed to provide for this variety.

We cannot, of course, predict the exact form that would be taken by this future global democracy. The democratic system will itself be the outcome of future democratic decisions. We can however say that it is likely that decisions will need to be taken at a number of different levels—from local to global. This would help to streamline the democratic participation of every individual towards the issues that concern them.

In socialism, everybody would have free access to the goods and services designed to directly meet their needs and there need be no system of payment for the work that each individual contributes to producing them. All work would be on a voluntary basis. Producing for needs means that people would engage in work that has a direct usefulness. The satisfaction that this would provide, along with the increased opportunity to shape working patterns and conditions, would bring about new attitudes to work.

- See more at: What is Socialism World Socialist Movement

THIS IS SOCIALISM​

Therefore we demand:

11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.

12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.

15. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.

17. We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.​

 

[regent]

Another economic myth, the framers gave America a Constitution that gave us an economic system, and that system is.... Hughes in his "American Economic History" says "When the existing states elected their first president and launched a new form of government in 1789, they did not seem to recognize that a dynamic interpretation of their new Constitution could make the law an instrument for the redistribution of wealth and income."

 

[boedicca]

Money is fungible. There is no "lockbox" that says that taxes collected under FICA can only be spent for a single purpose.

And this is why SS is a total Ponzi Scam. You're right, there is no lockbox because it is just stuffed with IOUs to tax future generation for spending today.

The vast majority of taxpayers would have been much better off having personal investment accounts that actually earned something than this Fake Lockbox Ponzi Scheme.

 

[Rikurzhen]

What is so hard to understand? Socialism means EVERYONE has an equal say in how goods and services are distributed.

OK, you're fired from your job as a teacher because 4 parents have showed up after class and fired you and they outvote you 4 to 1. They've just expressed their equal say in how a service, teaching, is distributed.

 

[Rikurzhen]

If you believe that socialism is a form of government........you need to further your education.

Let me translate that for the benefit of normal people, if you believe that socialism is a form of government then you need to be educated until you submit to this definition. Socialists and liberals are, after all, the inventors of reeducation camps.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Damn straight- Every time the Pubs get in, they do away with regulations or look the other way at corruption- see W Booosh- their cronies run wild in a corrupt bubble, and taxpayers get to hold a giant bag o' shytte- AGAIN.

There's nothing wrong with socialism- NOT COMMUNISM, hater dupes- but a giant pile of Pub fear mongering BULLSHYTTE.

So why would a dyed-in-the-wool socialist want to live in America? This is hardly a "worker's paradise" and the chances of it becoming one in the near and perhaps even long term is decidedly slim. So why live here? Could it be the opportunities available in a society like this as opposed to a socialist one?

They want to "change", "fundamentally transform" and "remake" America.

And they see the opportunity to do so.

No surprise that they're gonna give it a shot.

.

But remember, a Liberal will always lie to your face and tell you that he loves America too. He just hates everything about it and wants to transform it, but don't you dare say that he hates America.

 

[boedicca]

Liberals love America so much that they want to change everything about it.

 

[Ibentoken]

Liberals are having a war on truth.

 

[Rikurzhen]

In pure socialism, there is no private ownership. Pure socialism calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources.

 

[Derideo_Te]

All are paid for by those who pay fed taxes which is roughly the top 50% of earners and corporations. The bottom 50% and all non-earners get a free ride.

100% of all taxpayers pay FICA taxes which is funding government spending.

Woo, Disingenuous much?
FICA taxes are Social Security and Medicare, both gov't mandated INSURANCE policies.
The money that pays for our roads, parks, military, gov't operations, etc., etc., etc., is confiscated from the top 50% of earners and corporations. The bottom 50% and all non-earners get a free ride.

Woo, Disingenuous much?

Ironic!

Don't all you servile liberal turds all claim that FICA taxes don't go into the general fund?

Though there seems little to keep our elected officials from doing just that, FICA "taxes" are actually federally mandated retirement insurance premiums and are not to be used for any other purpose. Technically the gov't "borrows" FICA funds to cover current budget shortfalls.
Derido's claim that FICA funds are used for general expenditures (his way of "proving" that all taxpayers fund fed expenses) is just not true.
Roughly the bottom 50% of fed tax payers get a free ride on the backs of corporations and the upper 50%.

Derido's claim that FICA funds are used for general expenditures (his way of "proving" that all taxpayers fund fed expenses) is just not true.

So you cannot refute the FACT that 100% of all taxpayers do pay taxes. Furthermore you cannot refute the FACT that tax funds are not specifically allocated therefore everyone is paying a share of all spending.

And yes, failing to be honest about those FACTS does make you disingenuous!

 

[Rikurzhen]

Conservatives like to pretend that socialism is synonymous with dictatorship and communism.

Most socialistic aspects of our economy are very good for capitalism. As defined by Adam Smith, not loons like Ayn Rand.

Funny definition of pretend that you're using. To Pretend - to appeal to historical examples.

Here's my suggestion to you socialists. Do what the libertarian tried, or are trying, to do with their Free State Project. You all move to Detroit or any other city/state and then use your power of Democracy to bring about and inflict socialism on each other and you show the rest of us how your system is better with communized ownership and control.