Does anyone care we won the war in IRAQ?

[MikeK]

That's always been the tricky part of trying to explain middle eastern terrorism. Alliances are loose and convenient. This was not a war on bin laden nor a war on al qaeda. It was a war on all terrorist groups identified as significant threats.

Zarqawi was an al qaeda "affiliate" for quite some time before he located in Afghanistan. He trained terrorists for bin laden and did the same thing in Iraq. He did not publicly identify as part of al qaeda until 2004. That's a distinction without a difference.

As to his "enemy of Saddam" comment, again the alliances are loose and convenient. Ansar Al-Islam was infiltrated and controlled by members of Saddam's Republican Guard.

Here's another real tricky part -- and one which might be of special interest to you:

(Excerpt)

Israel Perhaps the Major Beneficiary of U.S.-led InvasionAnalysis - By N Janardhan

DUBAI, Apr 23, 2003 (IPS) - It is the U.S.-led forces that occupy Iraq after invading it more than a month ago, but the biggest beneficiary of Gulf War III - without firing a bullet - is Israel, say Middle East analysts.

Notwithstanding the political and economic interests that the United States had in targeting Iraq, says Umaimmah al-Jalahmmah, "the Jews were the driving force behind the war, with powerful pro-Israel lobbies in Washington seeking the destruction of one of the main threats to the Jewish state."

Al-Jalahmmah is professor of Islamic studies at King Faisal University in Saudi Arabia.

PV Vivekanand, chief editor of 'The Gulf Today' newspaper, agrees when he speaks of "the marriage between the Jewish lobby in the United States and the symbols of Christian extremism in Washington."

The two Middle East specialists see themselves vindicated by the views expressed in the now-famous white paper written in 1996 for the then Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu - titled 'A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm' - in the context of the Palestinian-Israeli peace talks.

The premise, which targets the Palestinian struggle for freedom, gains credibility because most of the authors were affiliated to pro-Israeli organisations. Some of them hold or held influential posts in the Bush administration. Prominent among them was the Pentagon Defence Policy Board member Richard Perle.

Another author Douglas Feith, who is presently undersecretary of defence and policy adviser at the Pentagon, is a member of the Zionist Organisation of America.


Read more here: IRAQ: Israel Perhaps the Major Beneficiary of U.S.-led Invasion - IPS ipsnews.net

(Close)

 

[Unkotare]

I want to ask the right-wingers a favor? Stop getting your information from the Republican Party, which controls talk radio. And I don't want you to accept my narrative either. I want you to research the complicated history of the region. This will help you hold our presidents accountable when they ask the nation to go to war - which is bankrupting the taxpayer. If you are so worried about evil dictators, than stop voting for politicians who put these dictators in power. At least study the region so that you can contribute to the dialogue.

Below is a link to a pretty good overview of American intervention in the region written by the right-leaning CATO institute. I'm only asking you to read one small history of the region, written by an organization which does not like liberal democrats. You don't want to end up like JRK, who means well but doesn't talk about history with any degree of complexity. He seems to be getting 100% of his information from government t - Republican government. Don't trust Washington for your history. Do some work. We're begging you to become more educated on this stuff. We're begging you to ask your leaders better questions. We can't afford your stupidity any longer. We've run out of money.

And I'm asking presumptuous, arrogant fucks like you to shove it up your ass. You come across like a 7 year old kid who reads something in his big-print encyclopedia and then proceeds to run around pestering everyone with "I'll bet you didn't know..." Yes, kid, we knew, now STFU. Do you have any idea what a clown it makes you look like when you try to strut around like you personally unearthed some secret documents just because your ignorant ass finally got around to reading a little about well-known history?

Why don't you turn off CNN, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, the New York Times, shit, all that crap just because I've decided you should? I won't ask you to turn off liberal talk radio because the last time liberals tried to compete there it went over like a druken pilot at an airshow, but why don't you take your "the GOP controls talk radio!" conspiracy nonsense and tuck it back up in your colon where it belongs? I'm not begging you to become more educated, because reading a few summaries then putting on your Indiana Jones hat and feeling superior is about all you half-wit liberals can be expected to do. I'm telling you to shut the fuck up and give it a rest with the presumptuous bullshit. You're only embarrassing yourself.

 

[MikeK]

Condi was protecting classified information
The yellow cake was discovered by US troops after the 2003 US invasion of Iraq at the Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Facility south of Baghdad, and was placed under the control of the International Atomic Energy Agency."
Evidence of WMDs presence in Iraq. - a knol by Luis T. Puig

You are clinging tenaciously to a web of lies. Again, go here and start unweaving it: snopes.com: Yellowcake Uranium Removed from Iraq

There was no WMD program. There were no WMDs. Any type of WMD-related materials found in Iraq were remnants and vestiges of the pre-1991 hostility with Iran, including chemicals we provided. There was no Al Qaeda in Iraq. Bush is a war criminal. So is Cheney. So is Condoleeza Rice. So are many members of the Bush Administration.

Learn the truth!

 

[Charles_Main]

I have realized that the liberals are going to do what ever it takes to taint the great victory in Iraq
Does anyone realize that war is over and it looks like we will be 100% gone in 6 months?
That there is a republic in place?
and that women vote and hold office?
I had no idea that the liberal media and there cock suckers would go to the level they have to make the troops look bad and make the success they fought hard for look like, well ask Drock and that crew
I dont even know how to explain it
DOES ANYBODY CARE WE WON?

The War in Iraq proved 2 things beyond a doubt.

1. The US military possess an Incredible ability to dismantle Conventional Armies, and capture Territory in on Unprecedented speed, even when the Defender out numbers us on the ground by a large margin.

2. While the US military can in fact dismantle a conventional Military like Iraq's, and dispose of the leadership with ease with only 150,000 Troops. To Occupy, Pacify, and bring security and stability to that country after you have won. Is a nearly impossible task with only 150,000 Troops.

The Failure in Iraq was that we were not ready after we won the war. To Secure the Country, stop the looting, and get things stable and under control quick enough. It simply was not possible with so few troops.

my guess is if we had, had about 500,000 Troops over and above the 150,000 shock troops that Carried out the Initial Invasion. Ready to flood in and secure the Country, and put a stop to Looting, and reprisals, and get things back to Livable ASAP. Things would have turned out much better, in a much shorter time, In Iraq.

We are currently doing the same thing in Afghanistan. To truly Control, and stabilize that Country we need more than Double the troops there, and we need to Balance being careful with our Troops ability to effectively go after the enemy. The Current Obama ROE's in Afghanistan are appalling, and should shock every American. The Constraints put on the troops, pertaining to who and when they can shoot, where they can patrol, and how and when they can get air support. Means that basically we have taken the Jedi Nights of Modern Warfare, The Most advanced and Best Equipped and supported troops in the World, and are asking them to fight on our enemies terms. Down and dirty, house to house, man to man with little if no air support, and Rules of Engagement so constraining as to make it impossible for them to complete the task.

 

[Charles_Main]

Condi was protecting classified information
The yellow cake was discovered by US troops after the 2003 US invasion of Iraq at the Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Facility south of Baghdad, and was placed under the control of the International Atomic Energy Agency."
Evidence of WMDs presence in Iraq. - a knol by Luis T. Puig

You are clinging tenaciously to a web of lies. Again, go here and start unweaving it: snopes.com: Yellowcake Uranium Removed from Iraq

There was no WMD program. There were no WMDs. Any type of WMD-related materia found in Iraq were remnants and vestiges of the pre-1991 hostility with Iran, including chemicals we provided. There was no Al Qaeda in Iraq. Bush is a war criminal. So is Cheney. So is Condoleeza Rice. So are many member of the Bush Administration.

Learn the truth!

None of that matters. The Plain fact is Saddam went on letting us believe he still had them. He denied in Public, but blocked inspections and played games that led most of the worlds Intel Community to believe he was still hiding something. He played cat and mouse and the Cat called the Bluff. Had he fully cooperated with the Inspections, and not played any games, Bush would not have been able to use WMD as a reason to go into Iraq.

Me Personally I never thought we needed WMD to justify going in, in the first place. I thought the timing was horrible. However I do believe after ignoring UN mandate after UN mandate, and continuing to attempt to shoot down US and other Countries planes that were patrolling a UN mandated no fly zone, set up to Protect Iraqis from Saddam. Was plenty of Justification to Remove Saddam.

Any one of you people who supports the Action In Libya is a hypocrite if you say I am wrong. Even with out the Threat of WMD, Saddam was a killer, and had killed Millions of his own. Including with Chemical Weapons. He was in defiance of 19 UN Resolutions, and firing on Our planes in the No fly Zone. Kaddafi on the other hand gave up all his WMDS Publicly, and yet based only on Humanitarian Reasons Liberals support Obama's attack on Libya, and ignore than there were Compelling Humanitarian reason to remove saddam as well.

 

[MikeK]

JRK, you wrote: "By late 2003, even the Bush White House’s staunchest defenders were starting to give up on the idea that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq."

If I'm not mistaken, that's the year I read Centcom stuff online, and they actually told about finding the stuff. First, they reported finding several million confidential papers in one of Saddam's capital and that it looked hopeful they could follow the trail of the WMDs. I'm pretty sure they reported finding a passel of bombs, some of which had traces of nuclear material that had been removed from them. They also reported finding a stock of deadly Sarin-type gas, enough to kill several hundreds of thousands of people and moreover, the gas was 10x as potent as regular Sarin, which is highly deadly. They also reported finding 36 gravesites with thousands and thousands of people in them who'd been mass-slaughtered. Men. Women. Children. Babies. Old people. All dead. There were pictures to back them up, pictures of people crying while our troops stood by them.

Did you also read a lot of stories about atrocities the Iraqi troops had committed in Kuwait -- all of which turned out to be boldface lies?

In the way of any exceptional weapon-making materials and that sarin gas munitions, all of that stuff was largely decayed remnants of Iraq's war with Iran. And he got most if not all of it from us.

So don't be so quick to believe everything the Bush Administration told you. There is plenty of credible evidence that proves it was lies. All of it.

 

[Londoner]

Londoner:

I don't see anything NEW here that I haven't heard on "right wing talk radio". So what if the US has a bad track record of picking convienient volatile fools?

....

I think you make good points about Clinton and the Dems being true partners in the War. Regime change in Iraq was a Clinton policy, and it is relatively benign compared to the Carter Doctrine where the US openly declared that it would use military force to protect its access to oil. I think we tend underestimate the ways in which US intervention has lead to blowback. I think by focusing exclusively on Hussein's aggression, and not mentioning the long history of British colonialism followed by US and Soviet intervention in the region, we lose the necessary context for understanding (and perhaps) preventing blowback. I think it is naive to claim that the US is civilizing/saving/protecting the world from barbarians like Hussein (who, irony of ironies, thrives in a world where superpowers install brutal dictators like Hussein because these monsters are both willing and strong enough to protect the interests of the superpower).

Here is my wish. Why can't we just admit that life is a jungle, and bad stuff happens, sometimes because of us. Why does history - as written by the winners - have to be narrated with such self-serving garbage about fairness and freedom and humanitarian blah blah? What's wrong if we have blood in our gas tank, or if we have to play hardball in a region? Life is a bitch; go to the plains of Africa. Living things eat other living things. Superpowers are no different despite their press clippings. Regardless, I think its possible that Hussein's aggression, though absolutely real, was used as a context for an intervention that had nothing to do with his relative danger to the American homeland. The US had/has a much bigger problem: China and India are here - and their appetite for the black stuff is going up, way up. So we're doing what all powerful nations do: fighting for control over the resources that make the world go round.

(And yes, sometimes the subjects of control - that natives - take action and fight back - taking innocent lives)

Let's call a spade a spade. Britain wasn't on some grand civilizing mission, saving India - it was there for the salt. That's what capital does. It goes wherever it needs to go, and it occasionally spills blood. The US is like any other big powerful animal that needs to feed. I say have thy feast and be done with it! but please stop telling me how good you are. That insults my intelligence. (Surely you remember Michael soliciting Fredo's confession?)

 

[francoHFW]

Libya cost about a billion, not 2 trillion. FCS

 

[Vanquish]

I want to ask the right-wingers a favor? Stop getting your information from the Republican Party, which controls talk radio. And I don't want you to accept my narrative either. I want you to research the complicated history of the region. This will help you hold our presidents accountable when they ask the nation to go to war - which is bankrupting the taxpayer. If you are so worried about evil dictators, than stop voting for politicians who put these dictators in power. At least study the region so that you can contribute to the dialogue.

Below is a link to a pretty good overview of American intervention in the region written by the right-leaning CATO institute. I'm only asking you to read one small history of the region, written by an organization which does not like liberal democrats. You don't want to end up like JRK, who means well but doesn't talk about history with any degree of complexity. He seems to be getting 100% of his information from government t - Republican government. Don't trust Washington for your history. Do some work. We're begging you to become more educated on this stuff. We're begging you to ask your leaders better questions. We can't afford your stupidity any longer. We've run out of money.

And I'm asking presumptuous, arrogant fucks like you to shove it up your ass. You come across like a 7 year old kid who reads something in his big-print encyclopedia and then proceeds to run around pestering everyone with "I'll bet you didn't know..." Yes, kid, we knew, now STFU. Do you have any idea what a clown it makes you look like when you try to strut around like you personally unearthed some secret documents just because your ignorant ass finally got around to reading a little about well-known history?

Why don't you turn off CNN, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, the New York Times, shit, all that crap just because I've decided you should? I won't ask you to turn off liberal talk radio because the last time liberals tried to compete there it went over like a druken pilot at an airshow, but why don't you take your "the GOP controls talk radio!" conspiracy nonsense and tuck it back up in your colon where it belongs? I'm not begging you to become more educated, because reading a few summaries then putting on your Indiana Jones hat and feeling superior is about all you half-wit liberals can be expected to do. I'm telling you to shut the fuck up and give it a rest with the presumptuous bullshit. You're only embarrassing yourself.

Unkotare, you're hopeless, mate.

All he's saying is that you need to research for yourself, not quote conservative talking points. That shouldn't be too insulting. What do you respond with? Proof that you're pretty much a jerkwhole. You're insulting yourself.

 

[Unkotare]

All he's saying is that you need to research for yourself, not quote conservative talking points. That shouldn't be too insulting. What do you respond with? Proof that you're pretty much a jerkwhole. You're insulting yourself.

If you ask real nice maybe he'll let you borrow his big-print Children's Book of Modern History. Then you can both put on matching short pants and run around pestering everyone with, "I'll bet you didn't know..." What fun!

 

[NYcarbineer]

Evidence of WMDs presence in Iraq. - a knol by Luis T. Puig
the yellow cake has more than one story

Obama stimulus package cost more than Iraq War - Washington DC Political Buzz | Examiner.com

the 800 billion
that has not had bases closed in Saudi and numerous ones in Kuwait closed along with the UNs extra cost we were funding in that number

this is all I have ever said bud
its the side of this story you on left ignore

Why did George Bush admit there were no WMD's, if there were?

 

[theliq]

Didn't KNOW YOU HAD.....what do you constituted
as winning,putting in a corrupt PUPPET Government ??????We will see after you leave but I doubt you've WON!!!!!! anything But RESPECT To Your Military and your co-partners from other countries including the Best Force...THE AUSTRALIANS

I have realized that the liberals are going to do what ever it takes to taint the great victory in Iraq
Does anyone realize that war is over and it looks like we will be 100% gone in 6 months?
That there is a republic in place?
and that women vote and hold office?
I had no idea that the liberal media and there cock suckers would go to the level they have to make the troops look bad and make the success they fought hard for look like, well ask Drock and that crew
I dont even know how to explain it
DOES ANYBODY CARE WE WON?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Evidence of WMDs presence in Iraq. - a knol by Luis T. Puig

Let's just look at ONE item in your link.

"(CNN) -- The CIA has in its hands the critical parts of a key piece of Iraqi nuclear technology -- parts needed to develop a bomb program -- that were dug up in a back yard in Baghdad, CNN has learned.

The parts, with accompanying plans, were unearthed by Iraqi scientist Mahdi Obeidi who had hidden them under a rose bush in his garden 12 years ago under orders from Qusay Hussein and Saddam Hussein's then son-in-law, Hussein Kamel."

Mahdi Obeidi wrote a book entitled 'The Bomb in My Garden', reviewed here:

The Washington Monthly

As the reviewer points out:

Saddam didn't have a bomb program in place after 1991. But that's not all: not only didn't he have an active program, but Mahdi makes it clear that he couldn't have had a program. There are half a dozen extremely advanced technologies involved that Iraq could get only from foreign sources, and even with a porous embargo in place it was just laughable to think they could get their hands on them.

In other words, all the prewar nonsense about a "smoking gun that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud" was just that: nonsense. And not just nonsense, but stuff the Bushies obviously knew was nonsense. It's impossible to read this book and not come to that conclusion.

Ironically, you are citing references that support the non-existence of WMD's.

 

[zonly1]

Evidence of WMDs presence in Iraq. - a knol by Luis T. Puig
the yellow cake has more than one story

Obama stimulus package cost more than Iraq War - Washington DC Political Buzz | Examiner.com

the 800 billion
that has not had bases closed in Saudi and numerous ones in Kuwait closed along with the UNs extra cost we were funding in that number

this is all I have ever said bud
its the side of this story you on left ignore

Why did George Bush admit there were no WMD's, if there were?

Arm chair quarterbacks are a dime a dozen.
What was Bush suppose to say after Saddam's interrogation confession?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Condi was protecting classified information
The yellow cake was discovered by US troops after the 2003 US invasion of Iraq at the Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Facility south of Baghdad, and was placed under the control of the International Atomic Energy Agency."
Evidence of WMDs presence in Iraq. - a knol by Luis T. Puig

You are clinging tenaciously to a web of lies. Again, go here and start unweaving it: snopes.com: Yellowcake Uranium Removed from Iraq

There was no WMD program. There were no WMDs. Any type of WMD-related materia found in Iraq were remnants and vestiges of the pre-1991 hostility with Iran, including chemicals we provided. There was no Al Qaeda in Iraq. Bush is a war criminal. So is Cheney. So is Condoleeza Rice. So are many members of the Bush Administration.

Learn the truth!

Highlighting the salient point of the snopes article:

The yellowcake removed from Iraq in 2008 was material that had long since been identified, documented, and stored in sealed containers under the supervision of UN inspectors. It was not a 'secret' cache that was recently 'discovered' by the US, and the yellowcake had not been purchased by Iraq in the years immediately preceding the 2003 invasion. The uranium was the remnants of decades-old nuclear reactor projects that had been put out of commission many years earlier: one reactor at Al Tuwaitha was bombed by Israel in 1981, and another was bombed and disabled during Operation Desert Storm in 1991.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I have realized that the liberals are going to do what ever it takes to taint the great victory in Iraq
Does anyone realize that war is over and it looks like we will be 100% gone in 6 months?
That there is a republic in place?
and that women vote and hold office?
I had no idea that the liberal media and there cock suckers would go to the level they have to make the troops look bad and make the success they fought hard for look like, well ask Drock and that crew
I dont even know how to explain it
DOES ANYBODY CARE WE WON?

What exactly did we win? A generation of traumatic head injuries?

and that women vote and hold office?

I'm sorry, I didn't get the memo - we went to Iraq to advance women's rights? That's funny. I don't recall either the Democrats or the Republicans lamenting about the rights of women in Iraq prior to the time we bombed them.


Its funny how when you start dropping bombs on people - all of a sudden, their social issues become so damn important. Who gives a fuck how many women are raped and never hold office in Africa's waring nations? it doesn't matter - we aren't bombing Congo, so fuck the people there. When we BOMB you THEN we'll give a shit - until then - FUCK YOU *******


Do you wanna know how many Americans gave a shit about how women were treated in Afghanistan before we started bombing them?

 

[NoNukes]

I have realized that the liberals are going to do what ever it takes to taint the great victory in Iraq
Does anyone realize that war is over and it looks like we will be 100% gone in 6 months?
That there is a republic in place?
and that women vote and hold office?
I had no idea that the liberal media and there cock suckers would go to the level they have to make the troops look bad and make the success they fought hard for look like, well ask Drock and that crew
I dont even know how to explain it
DOES ANYBODY CARE WE WON?

The War in Iraq proved 2 things beyond a doubt.

1. The US military possess an Incredible ability to dismantle Conventional Armies, and capture Territory in on Unprecedented speed, even when the Defender out numbers us on the ground by a large margin.

2. While the US military can in fact dismantle a conventional Military like Iraq's, and dispose of the leadership with ease with only 150,000 Troops. To Occupy, Pacify, and bring security and stability to that country after you have won. Is a nearly impossible task with only 150,000 Troops.

The Failure in Iraq was that we were not ready after we won the war. To Secure the Country, stop the looting, and get things stable and under control quick enough. It simply was not possible with so few troops.

my guess is if we had, had about 500,000 Troops over and above the 150,000 shock troops that Carried out the Initial Invasion. Ready to flood in and secure the Country, and put a stop to Looting, and reprisals, and get things back to Livable ASAP. Things would have turned out much better, in a much shorter time, In Iraq.

We are currently doing the same thing in Afghanistan. To truly Control, and stabilize that Country we need more than Double the troops there, and we need to Balance being careful with our Troops ability to effectively go after the enemy. The Current Obama ROE's in Afghanistan are appalling, and should shock every American. The Constraints put on the troops, pertaining to who and when they can shoot, where they can patrol, and how and when they can get air support. Means that basically we have taken the Jedi Nights of Modern Warfare, The Most advanced and Best Equipped and supported troops in the World, and are asking them to fight on our enemies terms. Down and dirty, house to house, man to man with little if no air support, and Rules of Engagement so constraining as to make it impossible for them to complete the task.

the US was successful in Iraq at such a great speed because they paid off many of Saddam's people to do nothing.-

 

[Unkotare]

[

the US was successful in Iraq at such a great speed because they paid off many of Saddam's people to do nothing.-

You are a true moron.

 

[Unkotare]

I have realized that the liberals are going to do what ever it takes to taint the great victory in Iraq
Does anyone realize that war is over and it looks like we will be 100% gone in 6 months?
That there is a republic in place?
and that women vote and hold office?
I had no idea that the liberal media and there cock suckers would go to the level they have to make the troops look bad and make the success they fought hard for look like, well ask Drock and that crew
I dont even know how to explain it
DOES ANYBODY CARE WE WON?

What exactly did we win? A generation of traumatic head injuries?

and that women vote and hold office?

I'm sorry, I didn't get the memo - we went to Iraq to advance women's rights? That's funny. I don't recall either the Democrats or the Republicans lamenting about the rights of women in Iraq prior to the time we bombed them.


Its funny how when you start dropping bombs on people - all of a sudden, their social issues become so damn important. Who gives a fuck how many women are raped and never hold office in Africa's waring nations? it doesn't matter - we aren't bombing Congo, so fuck the people there. When we BOMB you THEN we'll give a shit - until then - FUCK YOU *******


Do you wanna know how many Americans gave a shit about how women were treated in Afghanistan before we started bombing them?

Fuck YOU, you worthless bag of shit.

 

[NoNukes]

[

the US was successful in Iraq at such a great speed because they paid off many of Saddam's people to do nothing.-

You are a true moron.

A true moron is a person who only has an insult as opposed to an intelligent retort.

Saddam complained loudly about his betrayal by his people who accepted money from the CIA to not resist. Perhaps like many things, it did not make it into the American media. I have a much better vantage point from where I live.