Does Jesus have a soul?

[GreatestIam]

Does Jesus have a soul?

The hierarchy in heaven is God above and all souls below his position followed by angels if you happen to believe in those. That being the case, the human part of Jesus would also be below God and not at the right hand of God. No human soul can sit beside or be equal to God.

The God part of Jesus would be equal to the Father and Holy Spirit thus indistinguishable from either if he manifested himself. He could then sit at God’s right hand but his soul, being less than God-like could not.

If Jesus is at the highest level with God and it is impossible for a soul to be at that level, this indicates that Jesus somehow had two consciousnesses, one divine and one human in the same body on earth and that they would separate upon reaching heaven. That or Jesus had no soul.

If Jesus was not divine and a part of that strange Trinity concept, then he could not sit at the right hand of God as only God can sit at the highest level.

I see an impossible catch 22 here and wondered if any Christian could shed some light to get out of this catch 22.

Regards
DL

 

[Avatar4321]

I see no reason to disbelieve the testimony of the Apostles and other eye witnesses that showed Christ at the right hand of the Father. Eye witnesses like the following:

And while we meditated upon these things, the Lord touched the eyes of our understandings and they were opened, and the glory of the Lord shone round about.

And we beheld the glory of the Son, on the right hand of the Father, and received of his fulness;

And saw the holy angels, and them who are sanctified before his throne, worshiping God, and the Lamb, who worship him forever and ever.

And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father— (D&C 76:19-23)

The problem with your premise is you don't understand what a soul is or what the Father can do.

You fail to see that we all have the Divine spark within us because we are the children of God.

 

[GreatestIam]

I see no reason to disbelieve the testimony of the Apostles and other eye witnesses that showed Christ at the right hand of the Father. Eye witnesses like the following:

And while we meditated upon these things, the Lord touched the eyes of our understandings and they were opened, and the glory of the Lord shone round about.

And we beheld the glory of the Son, on the right hand of the Father, and received of his fulness;

And saw the holy angels, and them who are sanctified before his throne, worshiping God, and the Lamb, who worship him forever and ever.

And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father— (D&C 76:19-23)

The problem with your premise is you don't understand what a soul is or what the Father can do.

You fail to see that we all have the Divine spark within us because we are the children of God.

I agree with your last.

As to understanding what the genocidal son murdering Father can do, you are also correct.

Tell us please how you or anyone else can fathom then God that is said to be unfathomable, unknowable and works in mysterious ways.

This I gota hear.

Before you enlighten us you may want to identify which story you follow.



Regards
DL

 

[Derideo_Te]

I see no reason to disbelieve the testimony of the Apostles and other eye witnesses that showed Christ at the right hand of the Father. Eye witnesses like the following:

Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable.

The problem with your premise is you don't understand what a soul is

Please enlighten us all as to what a soul is.

You fail to see that we all have the Divine spark within us because we are the children of God.

Presupposes facts not in evidence.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Does Jesus have a soul?

The hierarchy in heaven is God above and all souls below his position followed by angels if you happen to believe in those. That being the case, the human part of Jesus would also be below God and not at the right hand of God. No human soul can sit beside or be equal to God.

The God part of Jesus would be equal to the Father and Holy Spirit thus indistinguishable from either if he manifested himself. He could then sit at God’s right hand but his soul, being less than God-like could not.

If Jesus is at the highest level with God and it is impossible for a soul to be at that level, this indicates that Jesus somehow had two consciousnesses, one divine and one human in the same body on earth and that they would separate upon reaching heaven. That or Jesus had no soul.

If Jesus was not divine and a part of that strange Trinity concept, then he could not sit at the right hand of God as only God can sit at the highest level.

I see an impossible catch 22 here and wondered if any Christian could shed some light to get out of this catch 22.

Regards
DL

GIA, there is no catch22. All that is necessary is an understanding of the Trinity.
GOD, the Father
GOD, the Son
GOD, the Holy Spirit
One God, three different functions/hats
Three aspects of the same entity

I am going to just assume you have parents, a wife, and children for a moment. That makes you:
Great, the Son
Great, the Husband
Great, the Father
One man, three different functions/hats
Three aspects of the same entity.

 

[blackcherry]

Does Jesus have a soul?

Wh cares , is my immediate response ? And by the same silly token , Did Buddha wear red pants?
Non believers reject the whole silly premise , replete with undefined terms . And rightly so , from the perspectives of logic and communication .
Believers just produce unverifiable gobbledygook usually employing another undefined term --- the Trinity -- and then tell you , regardless , that god is without definition .
A meaningless discussion . And if Christians are comforted by gobbledygook , let them be happy .Their intentions are essentially reasonable even if their thinking is distinctly not .

 

[The Irish Ram]

Then there is that pesky prophecy, replete with information only one that can see the end from the beginning could predict.
Thousands of years ago, He told us Israel would become a nation in 1 day.
Can you predict for me who will win the pennant later on this year?
He told us Israel would be surrounded by it's enemies.
Can you see who will win the Belmont Stakes?
He predicted that European countries would unite.
Can you tell me what I will be making for supper tonight?
Why not?

 

[GreatestIam]

Does Jesus have a soul?

The hierarchy in heaven is God above and all souls below his position followed by angels if you happen to believe in those. That being the case, the human part of Jesus would also be below God and not at the right hand of God. No human soul can sit beside or be equal to God.

The God part of Jesus would be equal to the Father and Holy Spirit thus indistinguishable from either if he manifested himself. He could then sit at God’s right hand but his soul, being less than God-like could not.

If Jesus is at the highest level with God and it is impossible for a soul to be at that level, this indicates that Jesus somehow had two consciousnesses, one divine and one human in the same body on earth and that they would separate upon reaching heaven. That or Jesus had no soul.

If Jesus was not divine and a part of that strange Trinity concept, then he could not sit at the right hand of God as only God can sit at the highest level.

I see an impossible catch 22 here and wondered if any Christian could shed some light to get out of this catch 22.

Regards
DL

GIA, there is no catch22. All that is necessary is an understanding of the Trinity.
GOD, the Father
GOD, the Son
GOD, the Holy Spirit
One God, three different functions/hats
Three aspects of the same entity

I am going to just assume you have parents, a wife, and children for a moment. That makes you:
Great, the Son
Great, the Husband
Great, the Father
One man, three different functions/hats
Three aspects of the same entity.

Sure. But tell us now how I can sacrifice something to myself or how I can ask myself why I have forsaken myself.

As to my best answer to your Trinity. Gibberish.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VsN3IG1HtQ]Christian concept of TRINITY EXPOSED - YouTube[/ame]


Gibberish.

That is why it was not formalized till Constantine forced it down Christianity's reluctant throat by force.

Originally Posted by animefan48
Well, the reality is most Christians do buy into the trinity doctrine because of persecution of the early Gnostics and non-Trinitarians, and the religious councils were dissenters were forced to agree to a Trinitarian theology. Many Unitarian and Universalist theologies argue that when Jesus said he was the way, he meant that he was an example of how to live to be united/reunited with God. As for the name, God does give other names for himself including the Alpha and Omega, as well as some believe a name that should not be written (or even spoken I believe). Honestly, I think using the name I Am That I Am would just be confusing and convoluted, seriously. I seriously do not believe that it is a continuation of Gnostic/mystical/Unitarian suppression. Even the Gnostic and mystical traditions within Islam and Christianity do not tend to use that name, and among the 99 Names of Allah, I did not find that one. Also, many Rastafarians believe that the Holy Spirit lives in humans and will sometimes say I and I instead of we, yet they don't seem to use the name I Am for God/Jah either, so I really don't think it can be related to suppressing mystical and Gnostic interpretations. I think that originally oppressing those ideas and decreeing them heretical are quite enough, the early Church did such a good job that after the split many Protestant groups continued to condemn mystical and later Gnostic sects and theologies.


Yup, the bishops voted and it was settled for all time!!1 (Some say the preliminary votes were 150 something to 140 something in favor of the trinity)

But then Constantine stepped in: After a prolonged and inconclusive debate, the impatient Constantine intervened to force an end to the conflict by demanding the adoption of the creed. The vote was taken under threat of exile for any who did not support the decision favored by Constantine. (And later, they fully endorsed the trinity idea when it all happened again at the council of Constantinople in AD 381, where only Trinitarians were invited to attend. Surprise! They also managed to carry a vote in favor of the Trinity.)

http://home.pacific.net.au/~amaxwell/bdigest/bd12bbs.tx


Even a Trinitarian scholar admits the Earliest & Original beliefs were NOT Trinitarian!

The trinity formulation is a later corruption away from the earliest & original beliefs!

"It must be admitted by everyone who has the rudiments of an historical sense that the doctrine of the Trinity, as a doctrine, formed no part of the original message. St Paul knew it not, and would have been unable to understand the meaning of the terms used in the theological formula on which the Church ultimately agreed".
Dr. W R Matthews, Dean of St Paul's Cathedral, "God in Christian Thought and Experience", p.180

"In order to understand the doctrine of the Trinity it is necessary to understand that the doctrine is a development, and why it developed. ... It is a waste of time to attempt to read Trinitarian doctrine directly off the pages of the New Testament".
R Hanson: "Reasonable Belief, A survey of the Christian Faith, p.171-173, 1980

The doctrine of the Trinity is not taught in the Old Testament.
New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. XIV, p. 306.

"The formulation ‘One God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.... Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective"
New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. 14, p. 299.

"The formulation ‘One God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.... Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective" (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. 14, p. 299).

"Fourth-century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary a deviation from this teaching" (The Encyclopedia Americana, p. 1956, p. 2941).

Was Jesus God to Paul and other early Christians? No. . . . .
(Source: How the Bible became the Bible by Donald L. O'Dell - ISBN 0-7414-2993-4 Published by INFINITY Publishing.com)

Regards
DL

 

[Underhill]

On a similar vein.

Are zombies and vampires related by blood? Or is it simply coincidence that both are called undead?

 

[GreatestIam]

Does Jesus have a soul?

Wh cares , is my immediate response ? And by the same silly token , Did Buddha wear red pants?
Non believers reject the whole silly premise , replete with undefined terms . And rightly so , from the perspectives of logic and communication .
Believers just produce unverifiable gobbledygook usually employing another undefined term --- the Trinity -- and then tell you , regardless , that god is without definition .
A meaningless discussion . And if Christians are comforted by gobbledygook , let them be happy .Their intentions are essentially reasonable even if their thinking is distinctly not .

If only it were so I would be in total agreement with you my friend.

Does what I show and say below jive with your, "Their intentions are essentially reasonable ".

It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists as well as those who do not believe. They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief or not. They make us all into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic are evil.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHaClUCw4&feature=PlayList&p=5123864A5243470E&index=0&playnext=1]Religulous [part 1] - YouTube[/ame]

They also do much harm to their own.

African witches and Jesus
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI&feature=related]In The name Of Jesus: Child Witches (1 of 2) - YouTube[/ame]

Jesus Camp 1of 9
LiveLeak.com - Jesus Camp - Part 1 (3)

Death to Gays.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Zg_BVzw&feature=related]Rachel Maddow interviews David Bahati - Part 1 - YouTube[/ame]

For evil to grow my friends, all good people need do is nothing.
Fight them when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

 

[The Irish Ram]

The only time Christ didn't call His Father, Abba, was when He was hanging on that cross. That's because Christ traded places with us. I was the one, you were the one, who called Christ's Father, God. Not Jesus. It was our sin, that caused God to turn away. He can't look upon sin, and that day, Christ was a rapist, a murder, a thief........

Odd that we can comprehend an abused child's (Sybil for one) ability to fracture her personality into dozens of separate entities, each serving a different function, and yet can't envision God, having the same ability.

Did Paul consider Christ God? You bet he did. So did the rest of them:

Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.”

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Hebrews 1:8,9 - But to the Son He (God) says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

 

[Foxfyre]

Jesus told us that he was God. All the scriptures that speak of Jesus support the concept that Jesus was God in human form so that he could relate to us up close and personal in a manner that the people could understand.

In the Gospel According to John, begins with the verse:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. (NIV)

Therefore the Christian belief is that God created it all, however He chose to do that, and that would include creating us and breathing life into us including what the Bible describes as our spiritual selves that indwell our physical bodies. Those spiritual selves are the 'soul' and of course Jesus had one, the spirit of God himself.

So in that sense, yes, I believe Jesus did indeed have a soul. He IS the soul/origin/creator of the entire universe. And all of us are souls that are little pieces of God himself, which is why I believe it is in the nature of humankind to naturally wonder about and seek God.

 

[Avatar4321]

I see no reason to disbelieve the testimony of the Apostles and other eye witnesses that showed Christ at the right hand of the Father. Eye witnesses like the following:

Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable.

The problem with your premise is you don't understand what a soul is

Please enlighten us all as to what a soul is.

You fail to see that we all have the Divine spark within us because we are the children of God.

Presupposes facts not in evidence.

The soul is the body and spirit united. That's why when the spirit entered Adam's body he became a living soul.

It's only when the Spirit and the flesh are united that a fullness of joy can occur. That's why the resurrection of the dead is so important.

We haven't been discussing evidence.

 

[GreatestIam]

The only time Christ didn't call His Father, Abba, was when He was hanging on that cross. That's because Christ traded places with us. I was the one, you were the one, who called Christ's Father, God. Not Jesus. It was our sin, that caused God to turn away. He can't look upon sin, and that day, Christ was a rapist, a murder, a thief........
]

If Jesus was God then he would know all that the Father knows and he did not.
The time of the end only the Father knows said Jesus.

As to taking your wickedness from you.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psalm 49:7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

Only those with no moral sense will try to profit from the murder of an innocent man.

No noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Jesus told us that he was God. All the scriptures that speak of Jesus support the concept that Jesus was God in human form so that he could relate to us up close and personal in a manner that the people could understand.

In the Gospel According to John, begins with the verse:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. (NIV)

Therefore the Christian belief is that God created it all, however He chose to do that, and that would include creating us and breathing life into us including what the Bible describes as our spiritual selves that indwell our physical bodies. Those spiritual selves are the 'soul' and of course Jesus had one, the spirit of God himself.

So in that sense, yes, I believe Jesus did indeed have a soul. He IS the soul/origin/creator of the entire universe. And all of us are souls that are little pieces of God himself, which is why I believe it is in the nature of humankind to naturally wonder about and seek God.

We have no evidence of God being a creator.

Yet God warned to fear the one who could kill souls. If Jesus had one then he could die and cannot be immortal.

Right?

Regards
DL

 

[Intense]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcJmAKpMdQE]"Little Bit O' Soul" - The Little Darlings (ORIGINAL VERSION 1965) - YouTube[/ame]
"Little Bit O' Soul" - The Little Darlings (ORIGINAL VERSION 1965)

 

[Derideo_Te]

I see no reason to disbelieve the testimony of the Apostles and other eye witnesses that showed Christ at the right hand of the Father. Eye witnesses like the following:

Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable.



Please enlighten us all as to what a soul is.

You fail to see that we all have the Divine spark within us because we are the children of God.

Presupposes facts not in evidence.

The soul is the body and spirit united. That's why when the spirit entered Adam's body he became a living soul.

It's only when the Spirit and the flesh are united that a fullness of joy can occur. That's why the resurrection of the dead is so important.

We haven't been discussing evidence.

If the "soul is the body and spirit united" then the soul must cease to exist when the body dies, right?

Furthermore you are anticipating a world full of "joyful" resurrected zombies since that is the only feasible means of reuniting flesh and spirit.

As far evidence goes you claimed to "see that we all have the Divine spark within us". Either you have evidence to prove what you claim or you are just seeing things that don't exist. Since you "copped out" of providing any evidence the latter must be true.

 

[Foxfyre]

Jesus told us that he was God. All the scriptures that speak of Jesus support the concept that Jesus was God in human form so that he could relate to us up close and personal in a manner that the people could understand.

In the Gospel According to John, begins with the verse:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. (NIV)

Therefore the Christian belief is that God created it all, however He chose to do that, and that would include creating us and breathing life into us including what the Bible describes as our spiritual selves that indwell our physical bodies. Those spiritual selves are the 'soul' and of course Jesus had one, the spirit of God himself.

So in that sense, yes, I believe Jesus did indeed have a soul. He IS the soul/origin/creator of the entire universe. And all of us are souls that are little pieces of God himself, which is why I believe it is in the nature of humankind to naturally wonder about and seek God.

We have no evidence of God being a creator.

Yet God warned to fear the one who could kill souls. If Jesus had one then he could die and cannot be immortal.

Right?

Regards
DL

We have no 'evidence' as the world defines evidence that there is a soul either. But the Holy Spirit, God's spirit (soul), can and will teach us the truth of all these things. It is my experience and my belief that we only have to let Him in.

But the teachings of Jesus are pretty explicit that we should not fear those who can kill the body because they cannot touch the soul. In Matthew 10:28, Jesus is quoted as saying: "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Jesus indeed could die as a mortal man and he did so, voluntarily, as a blood sacrifice for the sins of us all. Was that necessary? I don't know, but it was what the people of that time could understand as necessary to fulfill the demands that they understood of God's Law.

But the spirit, the soul, was not killed that day, and the resurrection proved it, as well as fulfilled prophecy, that the soul lives on. Eternal life is a reality.

 

[LittleNipper]

Jesus said he had a SPIRIT. "Father into your hands I commend my SPIRIT."

 

[Derideo_Te]

Jesus told us that he was God. All the scriptures that speak of Jesus support the concept that Jesus was God in human form so that he could relate to us up close and personal in a manner that the people could understand.

In the Gospel According to John, begins with the verse:



Therefore the Christian belief is that God created it all, however He chose to do that, and that would include creating us and breathing life into us including what the Bible describes as our spiritual selves that indwell our physical bodies. Those spiritual selves are the 'soul' and of course Jesus had one, the spirit of God himself.

So in that sense, yes, I believe Jesus did indeed have a soul. He IS the soul/origin/creator of the entire universe. And all of us are souls that are little pieces of God himself, which is why I believe it is in the nature of humankind to naturally wonder about and seek God.

We have no evidence of God being a creator.

Yet God warned to fear the one who could kill souls. If Jesus had one then he could die and cannot be immortal.

Right?

Regards
DL

We have no 'evidence' as the world defines evidence that there is a soul either. But the Holy Spirit, God's spirit (soul), can and will teach us the truth of all these things. It is my experience and my belief that we only have to let Him in.

But the teachings of Jesus are pretty explicit that we should not fear those who can kill the body because they cannot touch the soul. In Matthew 10:28, Jesus is quoted as saying: "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Jesus indeed could die as a mortal man and he did so, voluntarily, as a blood sacrifice for the sins of us all. Was that necessary? I don't know, but it was what the people of that time could understand as necessary to fulfill the demands that they understood of God's Law.

But the spirit, the soul, was not killed that day, and the resurrection proved it, as well as fulfilled prophecy, that the soul lives on. Eternal life is a reality.

There is no evidence to substantiate that "Eternal life is a reality" anymore than there is any evidence to substantiate the existence of a creator. Your faith and belief that they exist is your right and I am prepared to defend your right to believe as you will. However the facts and evidence belong to everyone and cannot be refuted by anyone's beliefs no matter how sincere. The purpose of wonder is to stir curiosity and that leads to provable knowledge based upon peer reviewed repeatable results. It is upon that knowledge that we are able to understand reality and the universe in which we dwell. Knowledge is not inherently evil it is merely facts and evidence that we can choose to use or discard based upon our own personal preferences. So your assertion that "the resurrection proved it" is not knowledge but a belief that you are entitled to hold.