Does Jesus have a soul?

[Foxfyre]

We have no evidence of God being a creator.

Yet God warned to fear the one who could kill souls. If Jesus had one then he could die and cannot be immortal.

Right?

Regards
DL

We have no 'evidence' as the world defines evidence that there is a soul either. But the Holy Spirit, God's spirit (soul), can and will teach us the truth of all these things. It is my experience and my belief that we only have to let Him in.

But the teachings of Jesus are pretty explicit that we should not fear those who can kill the body because they cannot touch the soul. In Matthew 10:28, Jesus is quoted as saying: "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Jesus indeed could die as a mortal man and he did so, voluntarily, as a blood sacrifice for the sins of us all. Was that necessary? I don't know, but it was what the people of that time could understand as necessary to fulfill the demands that they understood of God's Law.

But the spirit, the soul, was not killed that day, and the resurrection proved it, as well as fulfilled prophecy, that the soul lives on. Eternal life is a reality.

There is no evidence to substantiate that "Eternal life is a reality" anymore than there is any evidence to substantiate the existence of a creator. Your faith and belief that they exist is your right and I am prepared to defend your right to believe as you will. However the facts and evidence belong to everyone and cannot be refuted by anyone's beliefs no matter how sincere. The purpose of wonder is to stir curiosity and that leads to provable knowledge based upon peer reviewed repeatable results. It is upon that knowledge that we are able to understand reality and the universe in which we dwell. Knowledge is not inherently evil it is merely facts and evidence that we can choose to use or discard based upon our own personal preferences. So your assertion that "the resurrection proved it" is not knowledge but a belief that you are entitled to hold.

Much knowledge that we have comes by experience only. I believe the facts and evidence are available to everybody, and all anybody has to do to know that is to accept them. The only way to PROVE that a shadow is cast on a sunny day is to point to the shadow. How do you PROVE that shadows exist to somebody who has never had sight? How do you PROVE that being in love exists to somebody who has never experienced it? How do you PROVE that something is funny to the one who has never experienced humor? Once you experience these things you have evidence. It is no longer curiosity or wonder. You know it is real.

Likewise, how do you PROVE the existence of God, his Holy Spirit, and/or assurance of eternal life to somebody who has never experienced it? I KNOW this to be real. To be the truth. In order for YOU to know it, you have to receive it and experience it. (I would add that it is worth the trouble to do. )

 

[Derideo_Te]

We have no 'evidence' as the world defines evidence that there is a soul either. But the Holy Spirit, God's spirit (soul), can and will teach us the truth of all these things. It is my experience and my belief that we only have to let Him in.

But the teachings of Jesus are pretty explicit that we should not fear those who can kill the body because they cannot touch the soul. In Matthew 10:28, Jesus is quoted as saying: "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Jesus indeed could die as a mortal man and he did so, voluntarily, as a blood sacrifice for the sins of us all. Was that necessary? I don't know, but it was what the people of that time could understand as necessary to fulfill the demands that they understood of God's Law.

But the spirit, the soul, was not killed that day, and the resurrection proved it, as well as fulfilled prophecy, that the soul lives on. Eternal life is a reality.

There is no evidence to substantiate that "Eternal life is a reality" anymore than there is any evidence to substantiate the existence of a creator. Your faith and belief that they exist is your right and I am prepared to defend your right to believe as you will. However the facts and evidence belong to everyone and cannot be refuted by anyone's beliefs no matter how sincere. The purpose of wonder is to stir curiosity and that leads to provable knowledge based upon peer reviewed repeatable results. It is upon that knowledge that we are able to understand reality and the universe in which we dwell. Knowledge is not inherently evil it is merely facts and evidence that we can choose to use or discard based upon our own personal preferences. So your assertion that "the resurrection proved it" is not knowledge but a belief that you are entitled to hold.

Much knowledge that we have comes by experience only. I believe the facts and evidence are available to everybody, and all anybody has to do to know that is to accept them. The only way to PROVE that a shadow is cast on a sunny day is to point to the shadow. How do you PROVE that shadows exist to somebody who has never had sight? How do you PROVE that being in love exists to somebody who has never experienced it? How do you PROVE that something is funny to the one who has never experienced humor? Once you experience these things you have evidence. It is no longer curiosity or wonder. You know it is real.

Actually all of the things you stated above can be established by science. The photons of light behave in repeatable manners under given circumstances. The areas of the brain that show activity when people are in love or laughing are mapped and known. The anecdotal experience is not a substitute for empirical evidence.

Likewise, how do you PROVE the existence of God, his Holy Spirit, and/or assurance of eternal life to somebody who has never experienced it? I KNOW this to be real. To be the truth. In order for YOU to know it, you have to receive it and experience it. (I would add that it is worth the trouble to do. )

The life force, or spirit if you prefer, is in all living things. That is what distinguishes them from inanimate objects. That it exists is not in doubt. Your personal experiences however belong to you and no one else can have exactly the same experience since it is unique to you alone. We do have the power to share our experiences in our ability to communicate.

My only quibble that I have with you is your use of the term "prove". You cannot prove to anyone that there is "eternal life" just as I cannot prove the existence of a "creator". Instead what I think you are trying to convey is that you BELIEVE that there is eternal life. For you that is a wonderful personal experience and I am happy that you have it. When you are trying to communicate your personal experience you are within your rights to say that you BELIEVE this to be true. But it is misleading to say that you can PROVE it because you can't and that only weakens your position.

 

[Foxfyre]

There is no evidence to substantiate that "Eternal life is a reality" anymore than there is any evidence to substantiate the existence of a creator. Your faith and belief that they exist is your right and I am prepared to defend your right to believe as you will. However the facts and evidence belong to everyone and cannot be refuted by anyone's beliefs no matter how sincere. The purpose of wonder is to stir curiosity and that leads to provable knowledge based upon peer reviewed repeatable results. It is upon that knowledge that we are able to understand reality and the universe in which we dwell. Knowledge is not inherently evil it is merely facts and evidence that we can choose to use or discard based upon our own personal preferences. So your assertion that "the resurrection proved it" is not knowledge but a belief that you are entitled to hold.

Much knowledge that we have comes by experience only. I believe the facts and evidence are available to everybody, and all anybody has to do to know that is to accept them. The only way to PROVE that a shadow is cast on a sunny day is to point to the shadow. How do you PROVE that shadows exist to somebody who has never had sight? How do you PROVE that being in love exists to somebody who has never experienced it? How do you PROVE that something is funny to the one who has never experienced humor? Once you experience these things you have evidence. It is no longer curiosity or wonder. You know it is real.

Actually all of the things you stated above can be established by science. The photons of light behave in repeatable manners under given circumstances. The areas of the brain that show activity when people are in love or laughing are mapped and known. The anecdotal experience is not a substitute for empirical evidence.

Likewise, how do you PROVE the existence of God, his Holy Spirit, and/or assurance of eternal life to somebody who has never experienced it? I KNOW this to be real. To be the truth. In order for YOU to know it, you have to receive it and experience it. (I would add that it is worth the trouble to do. )

The life force, or spirit if you prefer, is in all living things. That is what distinguishes them from inanimate objects. That it exists is not in doubt. Your personal experiences however belong to you and no one else can have exactly the same experience since it is unique to you alone. We do have the power to share our experiences in our ability to communicate.

My only quibble that I have with you is your use of the term "prove". You cannot prove to anyone that there is "eternal life" just as I cannot prove the existence of a "creator". Instead what I think you are trying to convey is that you BELIEVE that there is eternal life. For you that is a wonderful personal experience and I am happy that you have it. When you are trying to communicate your personal experience you are within your rights to say that you BELIEVE this to be true. But it is misleading to say that you can PROVE it because you can't and that only weakens your position.

Sorry but you cannot prove something that you do not know exists no matter how much science is used.

I think you aren't reading well. I did not say that I could prove it. I said that it has been proved to me because I have experienced it. And I am saying that you can have the same experience and have the same proof. And there is nothing you can present to disprove my opinion about that.

 

[LittleNipper]

Galatians 5:22-23
New International Version (NIV)

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Cross references:Galatians 5:22 : Mt 7:16-20; Eph 5:9Galatians 5:22 : Col 3:12-15Galatians 5:22 : Mal 2:6Galatians 5:23 : S Ac 24:25Galatians 5:23 : ver 18

 

[Derideo_Te]

Sorry but you cannot prove something that you do not know exists no matter how much science is used.

So science hasn't proved that planets exist around other stars even though we did not know that they existed before science proved it? Then there is bacteria and viruses that we didn't know existed until science proved it. How about the existence of infrared light, x-rays, the ozone layer, deep ocean thermal vents or black holes?

I think you aren't reading well. I did not say that I could prove it. I said that it has been proved to me because I have experienced it. And I am saying that you can have the same experience and have the same proof. And there is nothing you can present to disprove my opinion about that.

So you "experienced" this "proof" but you cannot replicate the "proof"? That isn't "proof". That is merely an anecdotal experience. I am not trying to disprove your "experience" at all. I am merely trying to put it into the correct context which is not one of "proof" but of belief.

 

[GreatestIam]

Jesus told us that he was God. All the scriptures that speak of Jesus support the concept that Jesus was God in human form so that he could relate to us up close and personal in a manner that the people could understand.

In the Gospel According to John, begins with the verse:



Therefore the Christian belief is that God created it all, however He chose to do that, and that would include creating us and breathing life into us including what the Bible describes as our spiritual selves that indwell our physical bodies. Those spiritual selves are the 'soul' and of course Jesus had one, the spirit of God himself.

So in that sense, yes, I believe Jesus did indeed have a soul. He IS the soul/origin/creator of the entire universe. And all of us are souls that are little pieces of God himself, which is why I believe it is in the nature of humankind to naturally wonder about and seek God.

We have no evidence of God being a creator.

Yet God warned to fear the one who could kill souls. If Jesus had one then he could die and cannot be immortal.

Right?

Regards
DL

We have no 'evidence' as the world defines evidence that there is a soul either. But the Holy Spirit, God's spirit (soul), can and will teach us the truth of all these things. It is my experience and my belief that we only have to let Him in.

But the teachings of Jesus are pretty explicit that we should not fear those who can kill the body because they cannot touch the soul. In Matthew 10:28, Jesus is quoted as saying: "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Jesus indeed could die as a mortal man and he did so, voluntarily, as a blood sacrifice for the sins of us all. Was that necessary? I don't know, but it was what the people of that time could understand as necessary to fulfill the demands that they understood of God's Law.

But the spirit, the soul, was not killed that day, and the resurrection proved it, as well as fulfilled prophecy, that the soul lives on. Eternal life is a reality.

So God could not forgive sin before creating blood.
IOW, he decided that something had to die before he could forgive.

Yet there are many quotes that say he can.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U]Nothing but the blood? - YouTube[/ame]

What do you make of those quotes that refute what you said?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Jesus said he had a SPIRIT. "Father into your hands I commend my SPIRIT."

He is also said to have taken his body to heaven.
Did he?

Did he have a soul?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

[
Much knowledge that we have comes by experience only. I believe the facts and evidence are available to everybody, and all anybody has to do to know that is to accept them. The only way to PROVE that a shadow is cast on a sunny day is to point to the shadow. How do you PROVE that shadows exist to somebody who has never had sight? How do you PROVE that being in love exists to somebody who has never experienced it? How do you PROVE that something is funny to the one who has never experienced humor? Once you experience these things you have evidence. It is no longer curiosity or wonder. You know it is real.

Likewise, how do you PROVE the existence of God, his Holy Spirit, and/or assurance of eternal life to somebody who has never experienced it? I KNOW this to be real. To be the truth. In order for YOU to know it, you have to receive it and experience it. (I would add that it is worth the trouble to do. )

How did you experience being eternal?
Just KIS and tell us of the first 500 years.

Tell us about your apotheosis.

Regards
DL

 

[Foxfyre]

[
Much knowledge that we have comes by experience only. I believe the facts and evidence are available to everybody, and all anybody has to do to know that is to accept them. The only way to PROVE that a shadow is cast on a sunny day is to point to the shadow. How do you PROVE that shadows exist to somebody who has never had sight? How do you PROVE that being in love exists to somebody who has never experienced it? How do you PROVE that something is funny to the one who has never experienced humor? Once you experience these things you have evidence. It is no longer curiosity or wonder. You know it is real.

Likewise, how do you PROVE the existence of God, his Holy Spirit, and/or assurance of eternal life to somebody who has never experienced it? I KNOW this to be real. To be the truth. In order for YOU to know it, you have to receive it and experience it. (I would add that it is worth the trouble to do. )

How did you experience being eternal?
Just KIS and tell us of the first 500 years.

Tell us about your apotheosis.

Regards
DL

Let's just say that God has given me a sense of peace on the subject. And that this same peace is available to any who will receive it. It is rather like falling in love. There is no way to fully understand it without experiencing it.

 

[GreatestIam]

[
Much knowledge that we have comes by experience only. I believe the facts and evidence are available to everybody, and all anybody has to do to know that is to accept them. The only way to PROVE that a shadow is cast on a sunny day is to point to the shadow. How do you PROVE that shadows exist to somebody who has never had sight? How do you PROVE that being in love exists to somebody who has never experienced it? How do you PROVE that something is funny to the one who has never experienced humor? Once you experience these things you have evidence. It is no longer curiosity or wonder. You know it is real.

Likewise, how do you PROVE the existence of God, his Holy Spirit, and/or assurance of eternal life to somebody who has never experienced it? I KNOW this to be real. To be the truth. In order for YOU to know it, you have to receive it and experience it. (I would add that it is worth the trouble to do. )

How did you experience being eternal?
Just KIS and tell us of the first 500 years.

Tell us about your apotheosis.

Regards
DL

Let's just say that God has given me a sense of peace on the subject. And that this same peace is available to any who will receive it. It is rather like falling in love. There is no way to fully understand it without experiencing it.

A recant would have been more honest.
Any who have suffered apotheosis would not hesitate to speak of it.

Regards
DL

 

[Foxfyre]

How did you experience being eternal?
Just KIS and tell us of the first 500 years.

Tell us about your apotheosis.

Regards
DL

Let's just say that God has given me a sense of peace on the subject. And that this same peace is available to any who will receive it. It is rather like falling in love. There is no way to fully understand it without experiencing it.

A recant would have been more honest.
Any who have suffered apotheosis would not hesitate to speak of it.

Regards
DL

Apotheosis? Who in the world suggested that? Not that I deem it impossible in this mortal life, but for now we get only tiny glimpses. But in time it will be revealed to it.

You clearly do not understand, and of course until you allow yourself to experience the living God, you have no way to do so. It is the Christian belief that those without the Holy Spirit cannot. But I will pray that you will want the experience. All who want it, receive it.

Do have a wonderful day.

 

[Avatar4321]

If the "soul is the body and spirit united" then the soul must cease to exist when the body dies, right?

Furthermore you are anticipating a world full of "joyful" resurrected zombies since that is the only feasible means of reuniting flesh and spirit.

As far evidence goes you claimed to "see that we all have the Divine spark within us". Either you have evidence to prove what you claim or you are just seeing things that don't exist. Since you "copped out" of providing any evidence the latter must be true.

When the body dies, the soul dies. The Spirit remains awaiting the resurrection when the Spirit and body will be reunited into immortality.

Zombies, the undead, don't exist. Watch alittle less tv.

 

[Avatar4321]

Jesus said he had a SPIRIT. "Father into your hands I commend my SPIRIT."

And since we know He has a body as well, then we know He has a Soul.

 

[Avatar4321]

[quoteHow did you experience being eternal?
Just KIS and tell us of the first 500 years.

Tell us about your apotheosis.

Regards
DL

How can you claim to know of God without having an experience with Him?

 

[GreatestIam]

Let's just say that God has given me a sense of peace on the subject. And that this same peace is available to any who will receive it. It is rather like falling in love. There is no way to fully understand it without experiencing it.

A recant would have been more honest.
Any who have suffered apotheosis would not hesitate to speak of it.

Regards
DL

Apotheosis? Who in the world suggested that? Not that I deem it impossible in this mortal life, but for now we get only tiny glimpses. But in time it will be revealed to it.

You clearly do not understand, and of course until you allow yourself to experience the living God, you have no way to do so. It is the Christian belief that those without the Holy Spirit cannot. But I will pray that you will want the experience. All who want it, receive it.

Do have a wonderful day.

It is received through apotheosis. Remember Paul of Tarsus.

I am not surprised that you do not understand as you have never been touched by the spirit of God.

If so, give the message received that has nothing to do with scriptures but has to do with self-growth.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

[quoteHow did you experience being eternal?
Just KIS and tell us of the first 500 years.

Tell us about your apotheosis.

Regards
DL

How can you claim to know of God without having an experience with Him?

I do make that claim.

The Godhead I found just has nothing to do with your imaginary bible God.

The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Regards
DL

 

[Derideo_Te]

If the "soul is the body and spirit united" then the soul must cease to exist when the body dies, right?

Furthermore you are anticipating a world full of "joyful" resurrected zombies since that is the only feasible means of reuniting flesh and spirit.

As far evidence goes you claimed to "see that we all have the Divine spark within us". Either you have evidence to prove what you claim or you are just seeing things that don't exist. Since you "copped out" of providing any evidence the latter must be true.

When the body dies, the soul dies. The Spirit remains awaiting the resurrection when the Spirit and body will be reunited into immortality.

Zombies, the undead, don't exist. Watch alittle less tv.

Why couldn't you provide an answer to this question?

As far evidence goes you claimed to "see that we all have the Divine spark within us". Either you have evidence to prove what you claim or you are just seeing things that don't exist. Since you "copped out" of providing any evidence the latter must be true.

By allowing it to stand unanswered you are tacitly admitting that my supposition is correct.

 

[Foxfyre]

A recant would have been more honest.
Any who have suffered apotheosis would not hesitate to speak of it.

Regards
DL

Apotheosis? Who in the world suggested that? Not that I deem it impossible in this mortal life, but for now we get only tiny glimpses. But in time it will be revealed to it.

You clearly do not understand, and of course until you allow yourself to experience the living God, you have no way to do so. It is the Christian belief that those without the Holy Spirit cannot. But I will pray that you will want the experience. All who want it, receive it.

Do have a wonderful day.

It is received through apotheosis. Remember Paul of Tarsus.

I am not surprised that you do not understand as you have never been touched by the spirit of God.

If so, give the message received that has nothing to do with scriptures but has to do with self-growth.

Regards
DL

Do you suggest that every Christian must have the exact same experience in order to have had any experience with the Holy Spirit at all? Certainly Jesus did not have a single method of teaching or ministering during his ministry on Earth. Nor were any of those called to service in either the Old or New Testament called in exactly the same way. I can only urge you to open yourself to the experience. Then then and then only can you understand.

 

[Avatar4321]

If the "soul is the body and spirit united" then the soul must cease to exist when the body dies, right?

Furthermore you are anticipating a world full of "joyful" resurrected zombies since that is the only feasible means of reuniting flesh and spirit.

As far evidence goes you claimed to "see that we all have the Divine spark within us". Either you have evidence to prove what you claim or you are just seeing things that don't exist. Since you "copped out" of providing any evidence the latter must be true.

When the body dies, the soul dies. The Spirit remains awaiting the resurrection when the Spirit and body will be reunited into immortality.

Zombies, the undead, don't exist. Watch alittle less tv.

Why couldn't you provide an answer to this question?

As far evidence goes you claimed to "see that we all have the Divine spark within us". Either you have evidence to prove what you claim or you are just seeing things that don't exist. Since you "copped out" of providing any evidence the latter must be true.

By allowing it to stand unanswered you are tacitly admitting that my supposition is correct.

Because I felt it would be a waste of my time to repeat the same things I've mentioned countless times before.

 

[GreatestIam]

Apotheosis? Who in the world suggested that? Not that I deem it impossible in this mortal life, but for now we get only tiny glimpses. But in time it will be revealed to it.

You clearly do not understand, and of course until you allow yourself to experience the living God, you have no way to do so. It is the Christian belief that those without the Holy Spirit cannot. But I will pray that you will want the experience. All who want it, receive it.

Do have a wonderful day.

It is received through apotheosis. Remember Paul of Tarsus.

I am not surprised that you do not understand as you have never been touched by the spirit of God.

If so, give the message received that has nothing to do with scriptures but has to do with self-growth.

Regards
DL

Do you suggest that every Christian must have the exact same experience in order to have had any experience with the Holy Spirit at all? Certainly Jesus did not have a single method of teaching or ministering during his ministry on Earth. Nor were any of those called to service in either the Old or New Testament called in exactly the same way. I can only urge you to open yourself to the experience. Then then and then only can you understand.

I have and have been rewarded. I just spoke to that above.

I did not indicate that we all had the exact message or experience. I was asking for your anecdotal rendering and you refuse to give it. Why?

I showed mine and you will not show yours while denying me mine. Not quite kosher that.

Regards
DL