Does Mankind Deserve Continued Existence? Does Desire Equal Deserve?

[Procrustes Stretched]

"there is nothing real about social constructs" - Asclepias

Do living things desire existence.? Oh wait, the term 'desire' is a human construct too. but only when it human existence completely dies out, will human constructs be taken for real and supply an answer? Will that answer be 'a human construct too? oy vey! poor Asclepias-the-ass

Yes living things desire existence. You can observe that struggle in lower life forms or a sentient being can express it. In the case of humans "deserves" is the rationale/social construct used to give legitimacy to that desire. Its really very simple. I am amazed you dont get this and become stressed out and call me names instead.

Can you point to our purpose on earth and what would happen if we vanished? What niche in the biological chain do we occupy that cause the universe to cease to exist?

sentient beings? desire is a human construct.

Yes sentient. Can you answer my question?

two questions, not one.
from the OP:
there is no proof that mankind has to or deserves to exist outside of a genetic desire to.

when mankind ceases to exist the universe will not matter -- to man

It would seem from that statement you agree with me.

It would appear you agree with Dante. Dante has a 'yes and a no' to your question.

 

[Asclepias]

Yes living things desire existence. You can observe that struggle in lower life forms or a sentient being can express it. In the case of humans "deserves" is the rationale/social construct used to give legitimacy to that desire. Its really very simple. I am amazed you dont get this and become stressed out and call me names instead.

Can you point to our purpose on earth and what would happen if we vanished? What niche in the biological chain do we occupy that cause the universe to cease to exist?

sentient beings? desire is a human construct.

Yes sentient. Can you answer my question?

two questions, not one.
from the OP:
there is no proof that mankind has to or deserves to exist outside of a genetic desire to.

when mankind ceases to exist the universe will not matter -- to man

It would seem from that statement you agree with me.

It would appear you agree with Dante. Dante has a 'yes and a no' to your question.

You need to stop taking drugs and referring to yourself in the third person.

 

[BluePhantom]

This world needs an enema.

Does Mankind Deserve Continued Existence? Does Desire Equal Deserve?

How can anyone make a reasoned and honest argument than mankind 'deserves' to exist? It just doesn't seem possible. there is no proof that mankind has to or deserves to exist outside of a genetic desire to.

I imagine Adolph Hitler and Heinrich Himmler had a similar discussion

why not?

From a completely philosophical perspective there is no problem with the question at all. But it's a dangerous question..or least the application of the conclusion can be dangerous. It's the kind of question someone asks when they are seeking justification to do harm to another. Not that I am accusing you of that, just for the record.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

This world needs an enema.

Does Mankind Deserve Continued Existence? Does Desire Equal Deserve?

How can anyone make a reasoned and honest argument than mankind 'deserves' to exist? It just doesn't seem possible. there is no proof that mankind has to or deserves to exist outside of a genetic desire to.

I imagine Adolph Hitler and Heinrich Himmler had a similar discussion

why not?

From a completely philosophical perspective there is no problem with the question at all. But it's a dangerous question..or least the application of the conclusion can be dangerous. It's the kind of question someone asks when they are seeking justification to do harm to another. Not that I am accusing you of that, just for the record.

Applying the conclusion? I think the question(s) raised is legitimate. It neither advocates nor implies any action on the part of anyone. But I understand your reading int it.

 

[Dajjal]

In my spiritualist theology we are on a long road to a higher state of spiritual evolution. In the present state of mankind we may not deserve to have everlasting existence, nor do I think we would want it. But if you take the longer view that we incarnate thousands of times before reaching a higher spiritual state, then we go on evolving in higher realms as immortal beings, then it all makes sense. The limited lives we are leading now are just an early stage of our evolutionary potential.

spirituality? Dante asked about the real world, the physical one.

If you reduce mankind to nothing but a physical animal then we know for a fact that we will cease to exist.
The sun is going to die, and even if we managed to find other solar systems and travel there our whole galaxy is going to collide with Andromeda. In any case the theory is that if the universe continues to expand it will end up with nothing but dead stars. So mankind is obviously on a limited life cycle that will end sooner or later.

If that is the case then there is no meaning to the Idea of deserving to survive or not, because we will not.

But if there is a spiritual reality then life may continue on into eternity in another higher form.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

In my spiritualist theology we are on a long road to a higher state of spiritual evolution. In the present state of mankind we may not deserve to have everlasting existence, nor do I think we would want it. But if you take the longer view that we incarnate thousands of times before reaching a higher spiritual state, then we go on evolving in higher realms as immortal beings, then it all makes sense. The limited lives we are leading now are just an early stage of our evolutionary potential.

spirituality? Dante asked about the real world, the physical one.

If you reduce mankind to nothing but a physical animal then we know for a fact that we will cease to exist.
The sun is going to die, and even if we managed to find other solar systems and travel there our whole galaxy is going to collide with Andromeda. In any case the theory is that if the universe continues to expand it will end up with nothing but dead stars. So mankind is obviously on a limited life cycle that will end sooner or later.

If that is the case then there is no meaning to the Idea of deserving to survive or not, because we will not.

But if there is a spiritual reality then life may continue on into eternity in another higher form.

methinks you miss the point of even your own philosophy. no big deal. most people do.

“People say that what we’re all seeking is a meaning for life. I don’t think that’s what we’re really seeking. I think that what we’re seeking is an experience of being alive, so that our life experiences on the purely physical plane will have resonances with our own innermost being and reality, so that we actually feel the rapture of being alive.”

― Joseph Campbell, The Power of Myth

“The meaning of life is that it stops.” – Franz Kafka​

“Life is without meaning. You bring the meaning to it. The meaning of life is whatever you ascribe it to be. Being alive is the meaning.” – Joseph Campbell

 

[RandomVariable]

It depends greatly on why we were created. Without knowing this one could not possibly answer the question. Not that I would try to anyway.

 

[Meriweather]

It depends greatly on why we were created. Without knowing this one could not possibly answer the question. Not that I would try to anyway.

A character is one of Richard Bach's books remarked we are here for two reasons:

1. To learn.
2. To have fun.

IF we go with the premise mankind was created to learn and to have fun, how are we doing as a whole?

 

[RandomVariable]

It depends greatly on why we were created. Without knowing this one could not possibly answer the question. Not that I would try to anyway.

A character is one of Richard Bach's books remarked we are here for two reasons:

1. To learn.
2. To have fun.

IF we go with the premise mankind was created to learn and to have fun, how are we doing as a whole?

Since you twisted my arm so I will give my opinion.

There are two aspects of the question of continuality (new word I think). One is society and the other is the individual. Our society, speaking for America, is lead by people who do not fear God. I think separation of church and state is a good thing but a godless society leads to decline and decay. As far as individuals I have no clue. Take for example one of those really high resolution images of a breath taking landscape. They can can all sorts of words added to them; God is great, achieve more, love the moment, and on and on. Who loves the landscape more? This is also the question of who sees the beauty of the flower more? The painter or the scientist? It would really have to go back to why we were created. As far as I know the rule was follow the laws of Moses and the rest is all good. I do not think things are 'all good' at the moment though.

 

[Michelle420]

I see you have a hard time understanding things so I will dumb it down for you.

Deserve - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

deserve
: to be worthy of

Who makes the determination on if something is worthy?

Does Mankind Deserve Continued Existence? Does Desire Equal Deserve?

How can anyone make a reasoned and honest argument than mankind 'deserves' to exist? It just doesn't seem possible. there is no proof that mankind has to or deserves to exist outside of a genetic desire to.

I agree. Thats why I said it was a social construct. Not only is there no proof, the world would actually thrive without man. We have gotten away from living in harmony with the laws of nature. These laws were understood by the ancients.

"there is nothing real about social constructs" - Asclepias

Do living things desire existence.? Oh wait, the term 'desire' is a human construct too. but only when it human existence completely dies out, will human constructs be taken for real and supply an answer? Will that answer be 'a human construct too? oy vey! poor Asclepias-the-ass

Yes living things desire existence. You can observe that struggle in lower life forms or a sentient being can express it. In the case of humans "deserves" is the rationale/social construct used to give legitimacy to that desire. Its really very simple. I am amazed you dont get this and become stressed out and call me names instead.

Can you point to our purpose on earth and what would happen if we vanished? What niche in the biological chain do we occupy that cause the universe to cease to exist?

sentient beings? desire is a human construct.

You are stating human construct, so are you differentiating human construct from social construct or using different wording but meaning it as the same thing?

Desire :a strong feeling of wanting to have something or wishing for something to happen.
Deserve:do something or have or show qualities worthy of (reward or punishment).

Social Construction:

1. Social construction is how society groups people and how it privileges certain groups over others. For example, you are a woman or a man because society tells you that you are, not because you choose to be. Simple as that. Just like it tells you what race you're classified as and what social class you belong in.

2. Human societies, our nations, governments and laws, our great civilizations and political movements and foundational belief systems we all invest enormous resources, time and effort in upholding. Humans sacrifice our lives to defend the lines demarcated on a map, with pieces of paper we declare to be money. We live in a vast multi-layered web of social constructs that ultimately do not physically exist beyond the manifestation of those social constructs that we create in the physical world. In other words, our social constructs exist because we humans react to them, the way you cannot see the gravitational field of a star, but you can observe how planets orbit around it.

Human delusion and social constructs philosophy

The phenomenological analysis of everyday life, or rather of the subjective experience of
everyday life, refrains from any causal or genetic hypotheses, as well as from assertions about
the ontological status of the phenomena analyzed. It is important to remember this.
Commonsense contains innumerable pre- and quasi-scientific interpretations about everyday
reality, which it takes for granted. If we are to describe the reality of commonsense we must
refer to these interpretations, just as we must take account of its taken-for-granted character—
but we do so within phenomenological brackets.
Consciousness is always intentional; it always intends or is directed toward objects. We
can never apprehend some putative substratum of consciousness as such, only consciousness
of something or other. This is so regardless of whether the object of consciousness is
experienced as belonging to an external physical world or apprehended as an element of an
inward subjective reality.

http://people.morrisville.edu/~reym...Luckmann-Social_Construction-excerpt-1968.pdf

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

It depends greatly on why we were created. Without knowing this one could not possibly answer the question. Not that I would try to anyway.

Why we were created?

Imagining that human beings were created demands giving meaning to human existence.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Does Mankind Deserve Continued Existence? Does Desire Equal Deserve?

How can anyone make a reasoned and honest argument than mankind 'deserves' to exist? It just doesn't seem possible. there is no proof that mankind has to or deserves to exist outside of a genetic desire to.

I agree. Thats why I said it was a social construct. Not only is there no proof, the world would actually thrive without man. We have gotten away from living in harmony with the laws of nature. These laws were understood by the ancients.

"there is nothing real about social constructs" - Asclepias

Do living things desire existence.? Oh wait, the term 'desire' is a human construct too. but only when it human existence completely dies out, will human constructs be taken for real and supply an answer? Will that answer be 'a human construct too? oy vey! poor Asclepias-the-ass

Yes living things desire existence. You can observe that struggle in lower life forms or a sentient being can express it. In the case of humans "deserves" is the rationale/social construct used to give legitimacy to that desire. Its really very simple. I am amazed you dont get this and become stressed out and call me names instead.

Can you point to our purpose on earth and what would happen if we vanished? What niche in the biological chain do we occupy that cause the universe to cease to exist?

sentient beings? desire is a human construct.

You are stating human construct, so are you differentiating human construct from social construct or using different wording but meaning it as the same thing?

Desire :a strong feeling of wanting to have something or wishing for something to happen.
Deserve:do something or have or show qualities worthy of (reward or punishment).

Social Construction:

1. Social construction is how society groups people and how it privileges certain groups over others. For example, you are a woman or a man because society tells you that you are, not because you choose to be. Simple as that. Just like it tells you what race you're classified as and what social class you belong in.

2. Human societies, our nations, governments and laws, our great civilizations and political movements and foundational belief systems we all invest enormous resources, time and effort in upholding. Humans sacrifice our lives to defend the lines demarcated on a map, with pieces of paper we declare to be money. We live in a vast multi-layered web of social constructs that ultimately do not physically exist beyond the manifestation of those social constructs that we create in the physical world. In other words, our social constructs exist because we humans react to them, the way you cannot see the gravitational field of a star, but you can observe how planets orbit around it.

Human delusion and social constructs philosophy

The phenomenological analysis of everyday life, or rather of the subjective experience of
everyday life, refrains from any causal or genetic hypotheses, as well as from assertions about
the ontological status of the phenomena analyzed. It is important to remember this.
Commonsense contains innumerable pre- and quasi-scientific interpretations about everyday
reality, which it takes for granted. If we are to describe the reality of commonsense we must
refer to these interpretations, just as we must take account of its taken-for-granted character—
but we do so within phenomenological brackets.
Consciousness is always intentional; it always intends or is directed toward objects. We
can never apprehend some putative substratum of consciousness as such, only consciousness
of something or other. This is so regardless of whether the object of consciousness is
experienced as belonging to an external physical world or apprehended as an element of an
inward subjective reality.

http://people.morrisville.edu/~reym...Luckmann-Social_Construction-excerpt-1968.pdf

Does Mankind Deserve Continued Existence? Does Desire Equal Deserve?

How can anyone make a reasoned and honest argument than mankind 'deserves' to exist? It just doesn't seem possible. there is no proof that mankind has to or deserves to exist outside of a genetic desire to.

?

 

[Asclepias]

It depends greatly on why we were created. Without knowing this one could not possibly answer the question. Not that I would try to anyway.

Why we were created?

Imagining that human beings were created demands giving meaning to human existence.

If we were not created where did we come from? We had to be created. The question is are we special or do we have a mission above that of other animals?

 

[Michelle420]

Answers to your question can only be answered subjectively, and are biased by ones own social construction of reality.

Do you generic you think you deserve continued existence? is your reality of desire influencing that?

 

[RandomVariable]

It depends greatly on why we were created. Without knowing this one could not possibly answer the question. Not that I would try to anyway.

Why we were created?

Imagining that human beings were created demands giving meaning to human existence.

I do not know why we were created. I do know that we given certain rules to live by though. They do not really gives us an indication why we were created however. Also creation does not demand meaning.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

It depends greatly on why we were created. Without knowing this one could not possibly answer the question. Not that I would try to anyway.

Why we were created?

Imagining that human beings were created demands giving meaning to human existence.

If we were not created where did we come from? We had to be created. The question is are we special or do we have a mission above that of other animals?

creation supposes a creator.

come into being does not

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

It depends greatly on why we were created. Without knowing this one could not possibly answer the question. Not that I would try to anyway.

Why we were created?

Imagining that human beings were created demands giving meaning to human existence.

I do not know why we were created. I do know that we given certain rules to live by though. They do not really gives us an indication why we were created however. Also creation does not demand meaning.

rules are the most human construct there is next to meaning

 

[Asclepias]

It depends greatly on why we were created. Without knowing this one could not possibly answer the question. Not that I would try to anyway.

Why we were created?

Imagining that human beings were created demands giving meaning to human existence.

If we were not created where did we come from? We had to be created. The question is are we special or do we have a mission above that of other animals?

creation supposes a creator.

come into being does not

Nothing just comes into being. If you have proof of that lets see it.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

It depends greatly on why we were created. Without knowing this one could not possibly answer the question. Not that I would try to anyway.

Why we were created?

Imagining that human beings were created demands giving meaning to human existence.

If we were not created where did we come from? We had to be created. The question is are we special or do we have a mission above that of other animals?

creation supposes a creator.

come into being does not

Nothing just comes into being. If you have proof of that lets see it.

Gasses in space come together. Are you saying there is a great mixer overseeing the whole universe?

 

[RandomVariable]

I made cookies this morning. Does that count? (Well, I did not actually make any cookies but you understand I hope.)