Dolphins players take a knee

[katsteve2012]

NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem

Colin Kaepernick has thanked Miami Dolphins duo Kenny Stills and Albert Wilson after they kneeled during the US national anthem on Sunday.

It comes after Nike decided to use Kaepernick as the face of a new campaign.

Kaepernick was the first NFL player to kneel during the national anthem to highlight racial injustice.


It seems to be impossible to discuss this protest in a rational way on this board.Clearly there are deep issues here that should be addressed but the reaction of the President and his attack dogs have made this impossible.

I dont know how representative the racist posters on the "race relations" forum are of America as a whole but it looks like the civil rights movement drove the racism underground and that hatred still exists.

Why cant the US leave the hatred in the past ?

I'll go along with FORCING PEOPLE at gunpoint to stand for our freedoms (see the irony?) when conservatives stop using the confederate flag as their flag of choice.......Why should I have more respect for the flag of our nation when they have NONE?

I could never figure why Black G.I.s put their lives on the line for a country that kept them as second class citizens.

My father and several uncles were some of the black military personnel who joined the armed services in spite of being viewed as
second class citizens.

Their idealism and belief in the possibility that they would be viewed more favorably for serving, was what motivated them to do so. They all ended up feeling that if they could do it over; that they would not repeat the same mistake.

 

[Correll]

Then what binds you to your fellow citizens? Or motivates you to sacrifice for the common good, or work towards common goals?

What you are describing is what a society looks like, in it's late decline, when the very idea of loyalty to the society, is considered passe.

Future museums will have posts like yours to show how your culture died.

It's ridiculous to assert that symbols create ties that bind. Symbols don't create anything, they are merely representations of things.

I did not assert the symbols create anything. That was all in your head.

America has changed since the National Anthem and Flag were created. Therefore what they represent has changed, yet they as symbols remain the same.

Irrelevant. I have changed since I was born, yet my name remains the same. So fucking what?

If you want people to respect the symbol you first have to create the ties that bind.

I agree completely. We used to have such ties. What happened? We do need to consider how to create such healthy "ties" in our society, and crafty policies that foster that.

I know that is difficult for people who espouse individualism as an overarching ideology.

Incorrect. It only looks that way because we are so often opposed to collectivists who espouse the State over everything, as an overarching ideology.

You only raise the specter of society when you can wield it as a bludgeon to bash your opponents in the political arena. Other than that, in your mind, we are nothing but individuals competing for the spoils in an unfair world with no moral justification for creating an inclusive society.

That has nothing to do with anything I have ever said, or supported.

Your flag represents a failing society, it doesn't deserve respect.

Thank you for admitting that you do not respect our society.


ANd that is what this is about. Anti-Americans publicly expressing their disrespect for America, AND Americans, during an unity ritual.


This is an attack on the "ties that bind" US together, and a healthy society would, at the very least, ostracize the pieces of shit that did it.


I agree that the flag represents a declining, or "failing" society. BUt part of the process of healing, is to stop allowing anti-American pieces of shit to shit all over US.

 

[Correll]

It is a mistake of certain critics to limit their disrespect to just the armed forces, the kneelers are disrespecting the entire nation.


I understand your claim. Neither repeating it, nor suggesting that I read up on it, is a supporting argument, you fool.

They aren't disrespecting anything, you ignorant idiot.

It's an unity ritual that calls for standing to show unity and respect.


THe Kneelers do the exact opposite of what is done to show respect.


Their actions are exactly the opposite of what you would do to show respect.


The exact opposite of respect is disrespect.


YOu are the ignorant idiot here.

How can these lads feel unity to people who they feel oppress them ?

The same way the vast majority of people in societies have though the vast majority of history.

And those societies that failed at that, were conquered by those that succeeded.

I have never stood for the union jack or sang god save the queen. I turn the volume down when it comes on the tv. I feel no affinity for it and it does not represent me. But I abide by the laws and I pay my taxes. That is all any of us has to do to be a part of any society.

Then what binds you to your fellow citizens? Or motivates you to sacrifice for the common good, or work towards common goals?

What you are describing is what a society looks like, in it's late decline, when the very idea of loyalty to the society, is considered passe.

Future museums will have posts like yours to show how your culture died.

So you vilify these players for exercising their right to protest. You show no empathy and make no effort to understand what they are upset about. You really are the most sanctimonious,hypocritical trash I can imagine.

I AM NOT VILIFYING THEM FOR EXERCISING THEIR RIGHT TO PROTEST.


I AM VILIFYING THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE SAYING.


And do you even consider it vilifying? YOu have no patriotism. Do you even consider it an insult to say that someone has no patriotism?


You have no patriotism. Hell, you turn it down when your anthem comes on the radio. That is more that just no patriotism, that is antipathy.

You misunderstand me. I am Welsh not British. I have no loyalty to the English hierarchy.

Yeah, I knew that.

And you have no loyalty to your fellow citizens.

 

[Correll]

You must have your eyes closed. That is all they are doing.

The argument is that they are showing disrespect to the FLag, the symbol of the nation.


Discussing that is not using the flag to win any argument.

No,they take it further and accuse these youngsters are disrespecting the armed forces. Its pretty standard chauvanism. I suggest that you read up on the subject.

Agreed. Quite a few veterans believe that the reason for their service was to allow the citizens of this country to be free to exercise their freedom. As long as it does not violate the law. And there is no law being broken.


If Kaepernick and other NFL players kneeling is offensive to the self righteous, judgemental lot of this country, their choice in exercising their own freedom should be obvious.

Don't watch the NFL.

After doing my own reading and even talking to some NFL players that I personally know, my own belief is that they are not anti American, they are peacefully protesting what is an injustice from their prospective. #45 publicly ranting "Fire the SOBS" is what is ignorant, divisive and un American.

Kaepernick has shown more patriotism and goodwill by quietly taking action to help other Americans who are in need than the vast majority of those who express outrage at him exercising his rights.



What Colin Kaepernick's Philanthropy Tells Us About His Vision for Social Change in America

I think that there is a certain class of people who live with a suppressed anger just waiting for an outlet.

No doubt. It's easy to read between the lines of what they say, and see what it is that they are really disturbed about.

Dude. You should NEVER read between the lines. No liberal should.

 

[Tehon]

I did not assert the symbols create anything. That was all in your head.

You very clearly think that symbols create unity.

This is an attack on the "ties that bind" US together

 

[Tehon]

ANd that is what this is about. Anti-Americans publicly expressing their disrespect for America, AND Americans, during an unity ritual.

That is only what this is about to you. Other people, myself included, see it as something much bigger.

 

[Correll]

I did not assert the symbols create anything. That was all in your head.

You very clearly think that symbols create unity.

This is an attack on the "ties that bind" US together

What the fuck are you saying? Is this just a moronic word game to distract from the fact that you admitted that you disrespect the country?

 

[Correll]

ANd that is what this is about. Anti-Americans publicly expressing their disrespect for America, AND Americans, during an unity ritual.

That is only what this is about to you. Other people, myself included, see it as something much bigger.

There is very little bigger than fighting against the decline of our society.

 

[Tehon]

I did not assert the symbols create anything. That was all in your head.

You very clearly think that symbols create unity.

This is an attack on the "ties that bind" US together

What the fuck are you saying? Is this just a moronic word game to distract from the fact that you admitted that you disrespect the country?

Lol, no secrets bud, I'm here everyday expressing my dissatisfaction with the way the country has developed.

 

[Correll]

I did not assert the symbols create anything. That was all in your head.

You very clearly think that symbols create unity.

This is an attack on the "ties that bind" US together

What the fuck are you saying? Is this just a moronic word game to distract from the fact that you admitted that you disrespect the country?

Lol, no secrets bud, I'm here everyday expressing my dissatisfaction with the way the country has developed.

My position is that the kneelers are expressing anti-Americanism, when they kneel.


YOu claim that they are not.


I am a Patriot.


You have disrespect for this nation.


ANd that's what this is about. You support anti-Americans because you are one.

And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

They aren't disrespecting anything, you ignorant idiot.

It's an unity ritual that calls for standing to show unity and respect.


THe Kneelers do the exact opposite of what is done to show respect.


Their actions are exactly the opposite of what you would do to show respect.


The exact opposite of respect is disrespect.


YOu are the ignorant idiot here.

How can these lads feel unity to people who they feel oppress them ?

The same way the vast majority of people in societies have though the vast majority of history.

And those societies that failed at that, were conquered by those that succeeded.

I have never stood for the union jack or sang god save the queen. I turn the volume down when it comes on the tv. I feel no affinity for it and it does not represent me. But I abide by the laws and I pay my taxes. That is all any of us has to do to be a part of any society.

Then what binds you to your fellow citizens? Or motivates you to sacrifice for the common good, or work towards common goals?

What you are describing is what a society looks like, in it's late decline, when the very idea of loyalty to the society, is considered passe.

Future museums will have posts like yours to show how your culture died.

So you vilify these players for exercising their right to protest. You show no empathy and make no effort to understand what they are upset about. You really are the most sanctimonious,hypocritical trash I can imagine.

I AM NOT VILIFYING THEM FOR EXERCISING THEIR RIGHT TO PROTEST.


I AM VILIFYING THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE SAYING.


And do you even consider it vilifying? YOu have no patriotism. Do you even consider it an insult to say that someone has no patriotism?


You have no patriotism. Hell, you turn it down when your anthem comes on the radio. That is more that just no patriotism, that is antipathy.

You misunderstand me. I am Welsh not British. I have no loyalty to the English hierarchy.

Yeah, I knew that.

And you have no loyalty to your fellow citizens.

And who are my "fellow citizens" ?

 

[Tehon]

I did not assert the symbols create anything. That was all in your head.

You very clearly think that symbols create unity.

This is an attack on the "ties that bind" US together

What the fuck are you saying? Is this just a moronic word game to distract from the fact that you admitted that you disrespect the country?

Lol, no secrets bud, I'm here everyday expressing my dissatisfaction with the way the country has developed.

My position is that the kneelers are expressing anti-Americanism, when they kneel.


YOu claim that they are not.


I am a Patriot.


You have disrespect for this nation.


ANd that's what this is about. You support anti-Americans because you are one.

And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.

I'm truly honored to be in you presence, patriot.

 

[Correll]

It's an unity ritual that calls for standing to show unity and respect.


THe Kneelers do the exact opposite of what is done to show respect.


Their actions are exactly the opposite of what you would do to show respect.


The exact opposite of respect is disrespect.


YOu are the ignorant idiot here.

How can these lads feel unity to people who they feel oppress them ?

The same way the vast majority of people in societies have though the vast majority of history.

And those societies that failed at that, were conquered by those that succeeded.

I have never stood for the union jack or sang god save the queen. I turn the volume down when it comes on the tv. I feel no affinity for it and it does not represent me. But I abide by the laws and I pay my taxes. That is all any of us has to do to be a part of any society.

Then what binds you to your fellow citizens? Or motivates you to sacrifice for the common good, or work towards common goals?

What you are describing is what a society looks like, in it's late decline, when the very idea of loyalty to the society, is considered passe.

Future museums will have posts like yours to show how your culture died.

So you vilify these players for exercising their right to protest. You show no empathy and make no effort to understand what they are upset about. You really are the most sanctimonious,hypocritical trash I can imagine.

I AM NOT VILIFYING THEM FOR EXERCISING THEIR RIGHT TO PROTEST.


I AM VILIFYING THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE SAYING.


And do you even consider it vilifying? YOu have no patriotism. Do you even consider it an insult to say that someone has no patriotism?


You have no patriotism. Hell, you turn it down when your anthem comes on the radio. That is more that just no patriotism, that is antipathy.

You misunderstand me. I am Welsh not British. I have no loyalty to the English hierarchy.

Yeah, I knew that.

And you have no loyalty to your fellow citizens.

And who are my "fellow citizens" ?

LOL!!!!!


Thanks for proving my point. How can you be loyal to people, when you are pretending to not know who they are.


Of course you support the Kneelers. YOu think patriotism, at least to a western nation, is inherently wrong.


BUT, you are too dishonest to admit it.


And that is what this is about. Anti-Americanism and those who support it.

 

[Correll]

I did not assert the symbols create anything. That was all in your head.

You very clearly think that symbols create unity.

This is an attack on the "ties that bind" US together

What the fuck are you saying? Is this just a moronic word game to distract from the fact that you admitted that you disrespect the country?

Lol, no secrets bud, I'm here everyday expressing my dissatisfaction with the way the country has developed.

My position is that the kneelers are expressing anti-Americanism, when they kneel.


YOu claim that they are not.


I am a Patriot.


You have disrespect for this nation.


ANd that's what this is about. You support anti-Americans because you are one.

And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.

I'm truly honored to be in you presence, patriot.

Wow. A personal attack to avoid addressing a point. I never saw that from a liberal before.


lol!!!!


ANd that's what this is about. You support anti-Americans because you are one.

And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.

 

[Tehon]

You very clearly think that symbols create unity.

What the fuck are you saying? Is this just a moronic word game to distract from the fact that you admitted that you disrespect the country?

Lol, no secrets bud, I'm here everyday expressing my dissatisfaction with the way the country has developed.

My position is that the kneelers are expressing anti-Americanism, when they kneel.


YOu claim that they are not.


I am a Patriot.


You have disrespect for this nation.


ANd that's what this is about. You support anti-Americans because you are one.

And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.

I'm truly honored to be in you presence, patriot.

Wow. A personal attack to avoid addressing a point. I never saw that from a liberal before.


lol!!!!


ANd that's what this is about. You support anti-Americans because you are one.

And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.

I heard you the first time.

 

[Correll]

What the fuck are you saying? Is this just a moronic word game to distract from the fact that you admitted that you disrespect the country?

Lol, no secrets bud, I'm here everyday expressing my dissatisfaction with the way the country has developed.

My position is that the kneelers are expressing anti-Americanism, when they kneel.


YOu claim that they are not.


I am a Patriot.


You have disrespect for this nation.


ANd that's what this is about. You support anti-Americans because you are one.

And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.

I'm truly honored to be in you presence, patriot.

Wow. A personal attack to avoid addressing a point. I never saw that from a liberal before.


lol!!!!


ANd that's what this is about. You support anti-Americans because you are one.

And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.

I heard you the first time.

But instead of addressing it, you dodged. as you just did again.


ANd that's what this is about. You support anti-Americans because you are one.

And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.

 

[Tehon]

Lol, no secrets bud, I'm here everyday expressing my dissatisfaction with the way the country has developed.

My position is that the kneelers are expressing anti-Americanism, when they kneel.


YOu claim that they are not.


I am a Patriot.


You have disrespect for this nation.


ANd that's what this is about. You support anti-Americans because you are one.

And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.

I'm truly honored to be in you presence, patriot.

Wow. A personal attack to avoid addressing a point. I never saw that from a liberal before.


lol!!!!


ANd that's what this is about. You support anti-Americans because you are one.

And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.

I heard you the first time.

But instead of addressing it, you dodged. as you just did again.


ANd that's what this is about. You support anti-Americans because you are one.

And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.

What am I lying about exactly?

 

[Correll]

My position is that the kneelers are expressing anti-Americanism, when they kneel.


YOu claim that they are not.


I am a Patriot.


You have disrespect for this nation.


ANd that's what this is about. You support anti-Americans because you are one.

And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.

I'm truly honored to be in you presence, patriot.

Wow. A personal attack to avoid addressing a point. I never saw that from a liberal before.


lol!!!!


ANd that's what this is about. You support anti-Americans because you are one.

And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.

I heard you the first time.

But instead of addressing it, you dodged. as you just did again.


ANd that's what this is about. You support anti-Americans because you are one.

And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.

What am I lying about exactly?

That you claim to support the kneelers because their message is so important, and that their intent is NOT to disrespect the flag and the nation for which it stands.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

6-10. Worry about practice vs. making dumbass political statements.

 

[katsteve2012]

The argument is that they are showing disrespect to the FLag, the symbol of the nation.


Discussing that is not using the flag to win any argument.

No,they take it further and accuse these youngsters are disrespecting the armed forces. Its pretty standard chauvanism. I suggest that you read up on the subject.

Agreed. Quite a few veterans believe that the reason for their service was to allow the citizens of this country to be free to exercise their freedom. As long as it does not violate the law. And there is no law being broken.


If Kaepernick and other NFL players kneeling is offensive to the self righteous, judgemental lot of this country, their choice in exercising their own freedom should be obvious.

Don't watch the NFL.

After doing my own reading and even talking to some NFL players that I personally know, my own belief is that they are not anti American, they are peacefully protesting what is an injustice from their prospective. #45 publicly ranting "Fire the SOBS" is what is ignorant, divisive and un American.

Kaepernick has shown more patriotism and goodwill by quietly taking action to help other Americans who are in need than the vast majority of those who express outrage at him exercising his rights.



What Colin Kaepernick's Philanthropy Tells Us About His Vision for Social Change in America

I think that there is a certain class of people who live with a suppressed anger just waiting for an outlet.

No doubt. It's easy to read between the lines of what they say, and see what it is that they are really disturbed about.

Dude. You should NEVER read between the lines. No liberal should.

Don't concern yourself with what I read and HOW I read it. That is really none of your business. And as far as your obsession over whether or not I am a liberal, you do not know that for certain.

Now. Go away. I was not addressing you personally, nor would I. For any reason.