Don't be on the wrong side of history

[Old Rocks]

The bankrupt Medicare/Medicaid and nearly bankrupt Social Security are being touted as evidence of success??

Desperation really must be setting in!

At least he didn't mention Amtrak.

or the us post office........

When I was very young, a candy bar was a nickle, as was a stamp for a letter. Today, the candy bar is smaller, and costs 50 cents or more. The stamp for the letter costs far less than a candy bar, now. So I would have to say the Post Office has done rather well in keeping costs down. If a government run Health Care System could run that well, we will be very lucky.

 

[Old Rocks]

The largest part of the high costs of insurance are the captive customers they have because you cannot shop out of state.

If I wanted to cut my food and fuel bills, I damn shure wouldn't put Washinton politicians and bureaucrats in charge of them.

Good point, but would you buy lower cost food / fuel if the same stuff you were buying now were available from another source for 20% less?

Would you band together with your neighbors to share the cost of a sewage treatment facility big enough to take care of the whole neighborhood, instead of having everyone spend three times as much to buy or develop their own smaller plants?

Good government is not rocket science. Demand an end to professional lobbying.

-Joe

Lobbying will not end in yours or my lifetime Joe...that's the reality.

I think our government is trying to write a check it can't cover. We will not still get the quality of care that we have now with a government run healthcare system. The healthcare Doctors as a profession will wane, as people that would have gotten into the profession will go where the money is. The specialists will be at a decline because of the time and money they need to seek a specialist position..just won't be payoff in the end for them. Also, there will be less of them needed in a government run healthcare system.
No matter what the left says....people come to our country for life saving treatment that they can't get in a timely manner in their own country which has government run universal healthcare. We have a much higher survival rate with cancers, and heart disease because of the low wait time for tests and procedures.
But like I stated, I'm all for government oversight that will help reduce the cost and get the people who need insurance their just due. We have to eliminate frivolous lawsuites against the industry. Another poster mentioned with illegals, get them stabilized and deport them. We can't afford our citizens, and Mexico's also.

Our government, like any government is funded by it's citizens. So if we write a check for a real Health Care System, then someone, some Americans, will have to pay for it. That should come from a tax on all of us. And SS would be solvent for the foreseeable future if all Americans paid the percentage of their income that comes out of my check for SS.

 

[Old Rocks]

Untrue. Medical costs are not the problem... insurance costs are. Private bureaucracies spend 20 to 25 cents of your health care dollar on overhead and profits. Social Security, the best example of a public insurance company, spends less than 1 cent of your FICA tax dollar to administer the program.

If you could cut your food bill by 19 - 24%, would you?

If you could cut your fuel bill by 19 - 24%, would you?

If you could cut your taxes by 19 - 24%, would you?

It's not rocket science. Demand an end to professional, mercenary lobbying by the private insurance bureaucracies.

-Joe

you seem to forget that a lot of those costs are passed on from medicare/medicaid to the private insurance companies

Ding, ding, ding!!!

Because costs must be absorbed in someway, AND the government (medicare/medicaid) have made not costs adjustments in over ten years. Furthermore, insurances also drive down costs, which get passed to the uninsured. Not to mention, government programs do not pay timely.

OK. Make Medicare universal. Everyone has it. Now you have a whole bunch of young healthy people in the insurance pool, and the costs go way down. Might even be able to make those cost adjustments. Make the big pharmaceuticals bid for supplying the drugs. That alone would be a major cost saver.

 

[sealybobo]

I don't think there is one adult in America that disagrees with you on these points booboo. The difference is how do we get there, you say government, and the other side says it can be done without the government take over. Booboo there are more ways than just the government to get this done, and have the results that we all want.

The other side is fighting to keep the status quo. They did nothing the 6 years they were in charge. Now don't just blow that comment off. The Democrats tried to introduce healthcare reform bills to the floor and the GOP laughed at them. Now they want to go about fixing the problems, just in a different way? I don't believe them. Neither should you. The Democrats were elected to fix healthcare. This is the best solution. Hell, even the Dems tried to shit on single payer at first. Guys like Max Baucus didn't even want to give them a seat at the table. That should tell you that single payer is the best/only real option. Not a compromise, not a coop and certainly not a bill that the GOP or lobbyists help write.

We already know the insurance companies have gotten to the Democrats. Its only a matter of if the politicians fear they will lose their jobs if they don't get something passed. So they will pass some bullshit that won't work, and you wonder why government sucks. Get the god damned lobbyists out of washington. But that will never happen, so fuck it. I guess we will just stay with the status quo. Now if/when that happens, notice who will be laughing and happy. Willow Dive and Dude. All right wingers happy to stay with the status quo. So you want to find people who will disagree with me, there are three assholes right there.

And compromising on a strong public option is why nothing will get done. It has to be a strong public option. It needs to compete with the insurance companies to keep their costs down. Without this competition, they will keep jacking up their rates. And eventually the insurance companies should just go away. Go do something else. Go back to school. This is America. You can do it!! Quit whining. Sound familiar?

We need to take the for profits out of the equasion.

Or, there needs to be more competition. But they're all in collusion with each other. Its another monopoly like gas or electricity or banks. Sure they aren't true monopolies but you know what they're doing. Just like the capitalism we have sucks and the russian communism was corrupt.

We have said about communism, "its a good theory, but not good in practice". Well Capitalists are starting to give free market capitalism a bad name too. They want to socialize the losses and privatize the profits.

Booboo, I just don't think the government could ever get it right with healthcare, for a numbert of reasons. I think they could get it right with oversight of the healthcare.
The rest of your rant goes in one ear and out the other. I've heard it so many times from you that it's just old, and your opinion. It's OK, I get it, but I feel differently than you. You have a good day booboo. Buy the way, spend some money and buy a computer for the condo, then we can diagree on the weekends.

I got way better things to do on the weekends. Tonight I'm partying with my old highschool wrestling buddies who came in from out of town for a sort of reunion. Bar tonight, golf tomorrow. Then Sunday I'm going on the lake with my new neighbor/girlfriend and we're going to make deer jerkey with the last of my venison. I can't wait to put lotion on her!

 

[Meister]

Good point, but would you buy lower cost food / fuel if the same stuff you were buying now were available from another source for 20% less?

Would you band together with your neighbors to share the cost of a sewage treatment facility big enough to take care of the whole neighborhood, instead of having everyone spend three times as much to buy or develop their own smaller plants?

Good government is not rocket science. Demand an end to professional lobbying.

-Joe

Lobbying will not end in yours or my lifetime Joe...that's the reality.

I think our government is trying to write a check it can't cover. We will not still get the quality of care that we have now with a government run healthcare system. The healthcare Doctors as a profession will wane, as people that would have gotten into the profession will go where the money is. The specialists will be at a decline because of the time and money they need to seek a specialist position..just won't be payoff in the end for them. Also, there will be less of them needed in a government run healthcare system.
No matter what the left says....people come to our country for life saving treatment that they can't get in a timely manner in their own country which has government run universal healthcare. We have a much higher survival rate with cancers, and heart disease because of the low wait time for tests and procedures.
But like I stated, I'm all for government oversight that will help reduce the cost and get the people who need insurance their just due. We have to eliminate frivolous lawsuites against the industry. Another poster mentioned with illegals, get them stabilized and deport them. We can't afford our citizens, and Mexico's also.

Our government, like any government is funded by it's citizens. So if we write a check for a real Health Care System, then someone, some Americans, will have to pay for it. That should come from a tax on all of us. And SS would be solvent for the foreseeable future if all Americans paid the percentage of their income that comes out of my check for SS.

I was using a metaphor Old Rocks, but that's OK. Glad to see you pay into social security, though.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What I love about Libruls is that they are too stupid to realize that they will be ones who bear the brunt of the collapse of our Social programs. Raise you right hand if you got one of them new "Green Technology"Jobs or your Bag o' Free Stuff from Obama

Ahhh, that's why Marxists Love their Useful Idiots.

 

[Douger]

Perfect example of why we have to raise taxes on the wealthy.

I'm nowhere near wealthy.

But I will be because I deal in quality properties and projects, and use all the tools the wealthy (like Ted Kennedy) use to maintain and grow wealth.

Good luck with your OASI checks and Medicare, loser.

Hey That's funny !
You're gonna be living in a tent soon !
" Duh Amurkin Dreem"
Go take a nap............

 

[sealybobo]

Perfect example of why we have to raise taxes on the wealthy.

I'm nowhere near wealthy.

But I will be because I deal in quality properties and projects, and use all the tools the wealthy (like Ted Kennedy) use to maintain and grow wealth.

Good luck with your OASI checks and Medicare, loser.

Hey That's funny !
You're gonna be living in a tent soon !
" Duh Amurkin Dreem"
Go take a nap............

They told Dude that the free markets would save him money and the oil companies and insurance companies raised their rates. And the private companies are over in Iraq/Afganistan bankrupting us too.

And dudes house is worth less and his 401K took a dumb. Yea, let the free markets run the show.

And the private bankers stole our savings and then had us bail them out in the end.

Hell, even the car companies fucked us. They were able to write off billions in debt while simultaniously renigging on pensions, sending jobs overseas and breaking the unions.

Dude is an idiot. He thinks he's going to be rich. He doesn't even know what rich is. And he doesn't realize that the gap between the rich and middle class got wider. That means it will be harder for him to make it.

 

[Oddball]

Perfect example of why we have to raise taxes on the wealthy.

I'm nowhere near wealthy.

But I will be because I deal in quality properties and projects, and use all the tools the wealthy (like Ted Kennedy) use to maintain and grow wealth.

Good luck with your OASI checks and Medicare, loser.

Hey That's funny !
You're gonna be living in a tent soon !
" Duh Amurkin Dreem"
Go take a nap............

Nope....Both my personal condo and the family's spread in the north woods are paid for in full.

You lose, Buckwheat.

 

[Oddball]

I'm nowhere near wealthy.

But I will be because I deal in quality properties and projects, and use all the tools the wealthy (like Ted Kennedy) use to maintain and grow wealth.

Good luck with your OASI checks and Medicare, loser.

Hey That's funny !
You're gonna be living in a tent soon !
" Duh Amurkin Dreem"
Go take a nap............

They told Dude that the free markets would save him money and the oil companies and insurance companies raised their rates. And the private companies are over in Iraq/Afganistan bankrupting us too.

And dudes house is worth less and his 401K took a dumb. Yea, let the free markets run the show.

And the private bankers stole our savings and then had us bail them out in the end.

Hell, even the car companies fucked us. They were able to write off billions in debt while simultaniously renigging on pensions, sending jobs overseas and breaking the unions.

Dude is an idiot. He thinks he's going to be rich. He doesn't even know what rich is. And he doesn't realize that the gap between the rich and middle class got wider. That means it will be harder for him to make it.

Thanks for chiming in here to prove for one and all what a totally clueless blithering idiot you are.

You know absolutely zero about my personal finances, and will never know, dipshit.

 

[Bern80]

Why do you lie?

Every other Western democracy has a single payer system and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare, and they cover everyone with results that are as good or better than ours.

It is whinny little liars like you that are holding America back.

Okay.....trying to keep my HEAD from exploding here.....for the umteenth gazilionth time......plus one.

STOP MAKING THE MOST RETARDED ARGUMENT IN THE HISOTRY OF RETARDED ARGUMENTS.

CHEAPER DOES NOT EQUAL BETTER, THEY DO NOT RUN BETTER THAN OURS AS IT HAS BEEN SHOWN TIME AND TIME AGAN PEOPLE IN YOUR 'UTOPIA' COUNTRIES WAIT LONGER. AND THEY AREN'T COMPARABLE IN THE FIRST PLACE. WE (THE U.S.) ARE NOT EVERY OTHER COUNTRY. YOU CAN'T COMPARE APPLES TO ORANGES AND EXPECT TO HAVE ANYTHING REMOTELY RESEMBLING CREDIBILITY IN AN ARGUMENT.

 

[elvis]

I'm nowhere near wealthy.

But I will be because I deal in quality properties and projects, and use all the tools the wealthy (like Ted Kennedy) use to maintain and grow wealth.

Good luck with your OASI checks and Medicare, loser.

Hey That's funny !
You're gonna be living in a tent soon !
" Duh Amurkin Dreem"
Go take a nap............

They told Dude that the free markets would save him money and the oil companies and insurance companies raised their rates. And the private companies are over in Iraq/Afganistan bankrupting us too.

And dudes house is worth less and his 401K took a dumb. Yea, let the free markets run the show.

And the private bankers stole our savings and then had us bail them out in the end.

Hell, even the car companies fucked us. They were able to write off billions in debt while simultaniously renigging on pensions, sending jobs overseas and breaking the unions.

Dude is an idiot. He thinks he's going to be rich. He doesn't even know what rich is. And he doesn't realize that the gap between the rich and middle class got wider. That means it will be harder for him to make it.

fuck off, Marxist. oh and get back to work, you lazy fuck.

 

[ba1614]

I'm nowhere near wealthy.

But I will be because I deal in quality properties and projects, and use all the tools the wealthy (like Ted Kennedy) use to maintain and grow wealth.

Good luck with your OASI checks and Medicare, loser.

Hey That's funny !
You're gonna be living in a tent soon !
" Duh Amurkin Dreem"
Go take a nap............

Nope....Both my personal condo and the family's spread in the north woods are paid for in full.

You lose, Buckwheat.

Good for you dude. If more people looked after themselves responsibly like you and your family have the whole country would be in a lot better shape.
I've lived without many extravagances myself to get my place paid for 3yrs ago, and it's paying off now. There's some great opportunities out there right now if a person is in the position to take advantage of it.

 

[sealybobo]

Hey That's funny !
You're gonna be living in a tent soon !
" Duh Amurkin Dreem"
Go take a nap............

Nope....Both my personal condo and the family's spread in the north woods are paid for in full.

You lose, Buckwheat.

Good for you dude. If more people looked after themselves responsibly like you and your family have the whole country would be in a lot better shape.
I've lived without many extravagances myself to get my place paid for 3yrs ago, and it's paying off now. There's some great opportunities out there right now if a person is in the position to take advantage of it.

Yea, that's why the GOP and this shitty economy were really good for a few rich people. The top 2% maybe.

But for the rest of us, it sucked. Even if I make money on the foreclosure market, how much did my home and 401K tank?

PS. My union worker dad has two homes paid off.

Dude's daddy has 2 homes and you're congratulating Dude? Yea dude, way to be born with a silver spoon in your mouth. Consider many people don't grow up spoiled like you were.

 

[sealybobo]

Why do you lie?

Every other Western democracy has a single payer system and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare, and they cover everyone with results that are as good or better than ours.

It is whinny little liars like you that are holding America back.

Okay.....trying to keep my HEAD from exploding here.....for the umteenth gazilionth time......plus one.

STOP MAKING THE MOST RETARDED ARGUMENT IN THE HISOTRY OF RETARDED ARGUMENTS.

CHEAPER DOES NOT EQUAL BETTER, THEY DO NOT RUN BETTER THAN OURS AS IT HAS BEEN SHOWN TIME AND TIME AGAN PEOPLE IN YOUR 'UTOPIA' COUNTRIES WAIT LONGER. AND THEY AREN'T COMPARABLE IN THE FIRST PLACE. WE (THE U.S.) ARE NOT EVERY OTHER COUNTRY. YOU CAN'T COMPARE APPLES TO ORANGES AND EXPECT TO HAVE ANYTHING REMOTELY RESEMBLING CREDIBILITY IN AN ARGUMENT.

They aren't retarded. Your arguments are.

But you are right. More expensive doesn't always mean better either.

And yes they do run better than ours. Their people live longer and pay less. And everyone is covered.

How many Canadians would prefer our system to theirs? A little over 10%. That makes no sense if ours is better.

American cars are the best cars on earth. Maybe if I say it enough times you'll believe this too.

 

[Oddball]

This isn't about my daddy, asshole. This is about people, like myself, who put their financial houses in order, so we won't need gummint cheez.....Like you will.

Now, get back to work, you lazy fuck.

 

[Meister]

Why do you lie?

Every other Western democracy has a single payer system and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare, and they cover everyone with results that are as good or better than ours.

It is whinny little liars like you that are holding America back.

Okay.....trying to keep my HEAD from exploding here.....for the umteenth gazilionth time......plus one.

STOP MAKING THE MOST RETARDED ARGUMENT IN THE HISOTRY OF RETARDED ARGUMENTS.

CHEAPER DOES NOT EQUAL BETTER, THEY DO NOT RUN BETTER THAN OURS AS IT HAS BEEN SHOWN TIME AND TIME AGAN PEOPLE IN YOUR 'UTOPIA' COUNTRIES WAIT LONGER. AND THEY AREN'T COMPARABLE IN THE FIRST PLACE. WE (THE U.S.) ARE NOT EVERY OTHER COUNTRY. YOU CAN'T COMPARE APPLES TO ORANGES AND EXPECT TO HAVE ANYTHING REMOTELY RESEMBLING CREDIBILITY IN AN ARGUMENT.

They aren't retarded. Your arguments are.

But you are right. More expensive doesn't always mean better either.

And yes they do run better than ours. Their people live longer and pay less. And everyone is covered.

How many Canadians would prefer our system to theirs? A little over 10%. That makes no sense if ours is better.

American cars are the best cars on earth. Maybe if I say it enough times you'll believe this too.

Link?

 

[Bern80]

These guys are sooo scared that their healthcare is going to get worse because everyone is going to be covered. And they think their costs are going to go up.

They don't realize that is impossible. We are gettin ripped off right now.

So the CBO is just plain wrong huh. Have YOU noticed that it is ONLY the dems saying saying costs will not rise.

How exaclty is it impossible that costs won't go up. You dont get that it is not enough to be covered. Being covered does not equal access bobo.

No one argues that the system needs a change. Everyone, accept the dems, can see (or more likely the refuse to admit, or didn't take basic math or econ) however that their plan doesn't have much of a chance of hell of improving the health care system because that isn't what this has ever been about for them. It is about government running the system and masking some 3% of the population that is uninsured as a crisis.

 

[Bern80]

And yes they do run better than ours. Their people live longer and pay less. And everyone is covered.

Exhibit A of the second most retarded argument in the history of arguments. I'm gonna give you a chance here. You're really going to try to tell us that a countries healthcare system is the reason its citizens live longer?

How many Canadians would prefer our system to theirs? A little over 10%. That makes no sense if ours is better.

You didn't do well in debate did ya. Can you provide evidence of that number. Probably not, but lets assume it's true for the hell of it. How exactly does not wanting our system automatically translate into 90% of them liking their system.

American cars are the best cars on earth. Maybe if I say it enough times you'll believe this too.

When you actually get access to it it most definately is. Access is the issue and what you don't seem to get is that making it cheap won't improve that.

 

[elvis]

Hey That's funny !
You're gonna be living in a tent soon !
" Duh Amurkin Dreem"
Go take a nap............

They told Dude that the free markets would save him money and the oil companies and insurance companies raised their rates. And the private companies are over in Iraq/Afganistan bankrupting us too.

And dudes house is worth less and his 401K took a dumb. Yea, let the free markets run the show.

And the private bankers stole our savings and then had us bail them out in the end.

Hell, even the car companies fucked us. They were able to write off billions in debt while simultaniously renigging on pensions, sending jobs overseas and breaking the unions.

Dude is an idiot. He thinks he's going to be rich. He doesn't even know what rich is. And he doesn't realize that the gap between the rich and middle class got wider. That means it will be harder for him to make it.

fuck off, Marxist. oh and get back to work, you lazy fuck.

Wow. a neg rep from bobo. I must be doing something right.