Doolittle Raid brilliant strategy or desperate risk

[namvet]

Not strategic at all, merely tactical. It was of almost no military consequence, but great propaganda effect. It was important to American morale at the cost of valuable lives, of course, but such is war.

I think you're confused regarding the definitions of strategic and tactical. To say it helped American morale, proves that it was strategic victory. For it to be a tactical victory, it would have had to significantly effect some aspect of Japan's war machine, which it did not.

No, I'm not confusing anything. I didn't say it was a tactical victory. I was saying that, as a military operation, it was tactical. Normandy was strategic, Midway could be called strategic. A bombing mission is tactical. The effect on America was like a little whiff of cocaine; it made the country feel good, briefly.

no it wasn't coke or a brief high. it kick started the biggest war production in history which continued till war's end.

 

[whitehall]

Halsey did NOT force any decision. it was Doolittle's call all the way. the attack was designed to show it could be done with minimum resources available and to lift morale back here for people going into the war plants. and prove to Japan the price paid for missing the carriers at Pearl.

they struck back at midway. that's another story

It was Halsey's carrier. Doolittle was along for the ride and hopefully a completed mission. It was Halsey's decision to launch the doomed planes four hundred miles short of the original plan.

 

[namvet]

Halsey did NOT force any decision. it was Doolittle's call all the way. the attack was designed to show it could be done with minimum resources available and to lift morale back here for people going into the war plants. and prove to Japan the price paid for missing the carriers at Pearl.

they struck back at midway. that's another story

It was Halsey's carrier. Doolittle was along for the ride and hopefully a completed mission. It was Halsey's decision to launch the doomed planes four hundred miles short of the original plan.

Doolittle and Hornet skipper Captain Marc Mitscher decided to launch the B-25s immediately

Halsey had no say. he was charged with the saftey of the TF

Doolittle Raid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[whitehall]

Halsey did NOT force any decision. it was Doolittle's call all the way. the attack was designed to show it could be done with minimum resources available and to lift morale back here for people going into the war plants. and prove to Japan the price paid for missing the carriers at Pearl.

they struck back at midway. that's another story

It was Halsey's carrier. Doolittle was along for the ride and hopefully a completed mission. It was Halsey's decision to launch the doomed planes four hundred miles short of the original plan.

Doolittle and Hornet skipper Captain Marc Mitscher decided to launch the B-25s immediately

Halsey had no say. he was charged with the saftey of the TF

Doolittle Raid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Have it your way. Doolittle probably spotted the Japanese picket ships and decided to protect the carrier by launching the mission 400 miles too soon and dooming the pilots who had at best a 50-50 chance if the mission went off as planned.

 

[Politico]

It was a hail mary strike nothng more. They knew it wouldn't really amount to anything.

 

[editec]

Not strategic at all, merely tactical. It was of almost no military consequence, but great propaganda effect. It was important to American morale at the cost of valuable lives, of course, but such is war.

I think you're confused regarding the definitions of strategic and tactical. To say it helped American morale, proves that it was strategic victory. For it to be a tactical victory, it would have had to significantly effect some aspect of Japan's war machine, which it did not.

You are right about that, Kon.

I meant the raid lacked significant martial strategic value, but you are correct in pointing out that NATIONAL MORALE is a strategic issue, too.

Therefore of course that raid had strategic merit.

 

[namvet]

It was Halsey's carrier. Doolittle was along for the ride and hopefully a completed mission. It was Halsey's decision to launch the doomed planes four hundred miles short of the original plan.

Doolittle and Hornet skipper Captain Marc Mitscher decided to launch the B-25s immediately

Halsey had no say. he was charged with the saftey of the TF

Doolittle Raid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Have it your way. Doolittle probably spotted the Japanese picket ships and decided to protect the carrier by launching the mission 400 miles too soon and dooming the pilots who had at best a 50-50 chance if the mission went off as planned.

the crews were all volunteers and made well aware of the risks involved. the Raid tested Doolittles' metal. decisions like this were made by upper commands on both sides. it goes with the job.

Halsey would have his metal put to the acid test when he was ordered to take over at Guadalcanal.

 

[whitehall]

The original point is that the Japanese knew it was a desperate strike that originated from a carrier so the myth that the attack caused panic and distrust of their defenses is probably untrue. You can parse words like "strategy" and "tactics" but the only success was in the propaganda value and the US needed good news even if we lost pilots that we desperately needed and bombers that were in short supply. It gave Spencer Tracy and Van Johnson juicy roles to play and continued the propaganda.

 

[editec]

The original point is that the Japanese knew it was a desperate strike that originated from a carrier so the myth that the attack caused panic and distrust of their defenses is probably untrue. You can parse words like "strategy" and "tactics" but the only success was in the propaganda value and the US needed good news even if we lost pilots that we desperately needed and bombers that were in short supply. It gave Spencer Tracy and Van Johnson juicy roles to play and continued the propaganda.

Oh I think it probably effected the Japanese as much as the Americans.

It was the first foreign offensive strike on Japanese soil for centuries.

 

[there4eyeM]

And Sgt. York in WWI effected a strategic victory over Germany, too.

Why do you want to change the meaning of words?

 

[namvet]

The original point is that the Japanese knew it was a desperate strike that originated from a carrier so the myth that the attack caused panic and distrust of their defenses is probably untrue. You can parse words like "strategy" and "tactics" but the only success was in the propaganda value and the US needed good news even if we lost pilots that we desperately needed and bombers that were in short supply. It gave Spencer Tracy and Van Johnson juicy roles to play and continued the propaganda.

Oh I think it probably effected the Japanese as much as the Americans.

It was the first foreign offensive strike on Japanese soil for centuries.

that's true. it was a a surprise attack. although damage was minor the military was forced to apologize for risking the emporer's life. add to it flying B-25's from a carrier was impossible. at first they didn't buy it. they thought the attack came from China.

 

[there4eyeM]

From Wikipedia:
"In military usage, a military tactic is used by a military unit of no larger than a division to implement a specific mission and achieve a specific objective, or to advance toward a specific goal.

The terms tactic and strategy are often confused: tactics are the actual means used to gain an objective, while strategy is the overall campaign plan, which may involve complex operational patterns, activity, and decision-making that lead to tactical execution. The United States Department of Defense Dictionary of Military Terms[1] defines the tactical level as
“ ...The level of war at which battles and engagements are planned and executed to accomplish military objectives assigned to tactical units or task forces. Activities at this level focus on the ordered arrangement and maneuver of combat elements in relation to each other and to the enemy to achieve combat objectives. ”

If, for example, the overall goal is to win a war against another country, one strategy might be to undermine the other nation's ability to wage war by preemptively annihilating their military forces. The tactics involved might describe specific actions taken in specific locations, like surprise attacks on military facilities, missile attacks on offensive weapon stockpiles, and the specific techniques involved in accomplishing such objectives."

 

[namvet]

this is the actual war plant my mom worked at during the war building the B-25 bomber

Assembling B-25 bombers at North American Aviation. Kansas City, Kansas, October 1942. Reproduction from color slide. Photo by Alfred T. Palmer. Prints and Photographs Division, Library of Congress #

 

[Unkotare]

We just passed the 70'th anniversary of Doolittle's daring raid on 4/18/42. Did it have an unintended consequence of galvanizing the Japanese civilians support for the war? .

Civilian support for the war, or more generally for government authority in any form, was already as high as it was going to be. The silent opposition many felt became more silent as the situation escalated, and the very small vocal opposition evaporated almost entirely, due to fear and/or elimination.

 

[namvet]

Civilians were slaves. their opinion meant nothing

 

[Unkotare]

Civilians were slaves. their opinion meant nothing

Don't overdo it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Doolittle Raid brilliant strategy or desperate risk?

Both.

 

[namvet]

Civilians were slaves. their opinion meant nothing

Don't overdo it.

its a fact

 

[Unkotare]

Civilians were slaves. their opinion meant nothing

Don't overdo it.

its a fact

It's pointless, empty hyperbole.

 

[whitehall]

Common sense would tell you that the loss of every plane and about a dozen men killed or captured in a raid that did minimal damage was an abject failure but everything was political to the FDR administration. Before the media became cynical you could even call it a "mission accomplished" moment with FDR joking about the planes taking off from Shangra La. With the cooperation of the more than willing media, FDR turned a risky, some would say foolhardy adventure into a political opportunity. I have an original April 26 1942 full page "picture parade" section from the Philadelphia Inquirer (there were no photos) by staff artist William Pollock titled "First Raid over Tokyo. It is a terrific fantasy account in color showing Tokyo in flames and American bombers (and fighters) heroically inflicting maximum damage. It was a wonderful piece of propaganda when we needed it most and the feeling still lasts 70 years later.