Dow drops 653 pts in 1/2 day - Trump blames (of course) somebody else....

[Marion Morrison]

Actually, it was 2 fed hikes under Obama and 7 under Trump. Six of which, occurred while the stock market was a strong bull market.

Federal Reserve Board - Open Market Operations

Do you not see the disparity in that? The Fed is raising rates too quickly. That's the main reason the market is tanking. Of course not, because this is you:

 

[Toro]

I agree that tariffs are a tax, but ultimately, I see the negotiating strategy of Trump as sound. Through the THREAT of tariffs he is attempting to get our trading partners to reduce, or eliminate theirs. Why is it OK for Europe, China, Japan, and many other counties to put huge tariffs on our goods, with no fear of accountability?

How has Trump retreated from globalization? Yes, he wants to retain U.S. Sovereignty, but we are certainly not isolationists.

BTW, I'm an Asset Manager so talk to some of the same kind of people you do. They've been wrong, as much as they've been right.

Well, the asset managers were definitely wrong about Trump being elected in the first place.

There are two arguments on tariffs. The first is a geopolitical, strategic argument. This argument is that China is challenging the US hegemonic power, and is stealing our technology to do so. Thus, we have to respond in ways to hurt the Chinese so they stop stealing our technology. I can't argue against that, because it's true. And if tariffs are a weapon in this new conflict, then I have no response.

The problem with that, though, is Trump is not thinking strategically. In fact, he's acting to harm the interests of the United States. If that was the primary motivation, then he wouldn't be pissing off our allies because our allies would be helping us. But he's pissing off our allies with his ridiculous trade wars. I'm Canadian by birth. And to listen to Trump say that Canada is ripping off the US is completely retarded. I was active politically with the Conservative Party in Canada when the original free trade agreement was being negotiated. The Canadian left - yes, historically it has been the left who has been opposed to free trade - were making the exact same arguments about Canadian jobs fleeing to the "low cost" US that the American opponents to NAFTA make about American jobs fleeing to low cost Mexico.

So I don't know if I buy this "getting a better deal" argument, particularly coming from a man so utterly inept at understanding basic economics as thinking that trade deficits are inherently bad.

 

[Pilot1]

Well at least we have a President that has a shot of understanding economics, and finance with his business background, and acumen, and he did go to a good business school, so he has the foundation. Unlike most former Presidents who have just been lawyers, and community organizers.

 

[Faun]

Duh Donald blaming the Fed Reserve and wants to deny:

1. HIS government shutdown
2. Erratic, out of nowhere Middle East policy change and
3. Firing of an admired and venerable former Marine General, Jim Mattis.

Biggest drop in the stock market since

He's the biggest fuck up to enter the White House since Harding.
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Dow Drops Below 22K, Stocks Trade Lower as Wall Street Can't Shake Steep Slide
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The stock market is going down because interest rates are rising and the Fed is reducing the size of its balance sheet.

Trump's tariffs and his idiotic bleatings about Powell are adding to it, but Trump isn't the primary cause of the decline.

You are mostly correct. The Trump haters here will never accept that.

Yes the market loves the uncertainty trump brings to our nation

It's not a coincidence the recent market slide began almost to the day that the government closed the books on the FY2018 budget, Trump's first completed budget year, and posted a total deficit of almost $1.3 trillion.

The market responded in kind.

 

[Mac1958]

Trump won't STFU, he's not going to change, he has no idea what he's doing. And Mnuchin's comments were a perfect example of a clueless administration.

I agree that this medicine is needed, as long as we're keeping an eye on things. Real estate has fallen off the table in important areas, and as you point out above, business capex may tail off. Plus we have this guy in the White House. We just have to keep our hands on the freakin' wheel here.
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I agree.

But again, the rise in real estate was induced in part, though not entirely, by the Fed and their ridiculously low interest rates. Oddly, we have a very bifurcated real estate market. We have too many upper end homes and not enough on the lower end. If you look at NAHB data, there's roughly 7 months of supply, slightly above the long-term average of ~6 months. But at the upper end, there's 9 months of supply and at the lower end, there's 3 months. All the homebuilders have been focusing on the upper end because they can make profits there but can't make a dime on the lower end because of increasing costs and regulations. And the silly prices are in certain metro areas. Where I live, home prices haven't gone crazy. But they have in other parts of the state.

There's also too much retail space and too many restaurants. Some of that supply is going to have to be wiped out.

Sure, the real estate explosion in many areas was fed by the Fed, no pun intended. And that's another thing - I suspect markets will remember the last time there was a real estate explosion and the shit hit the fan. Markets could easily over-react.

Powell's actions are the right thing, even if they're not good politically for one party. We've just gotta be careful here. The economy isn't that sturdy.
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[miketx]

Duh Donald blaming the Fed Reserve and wants to deny:

1. HIS government shutdown
2. Erratic, out of nowhere Middle East policy change and
3. Firing of an admired and venerable former Marine General, Jim Mattis.

Biggest drop in the stock market since

He's the biggest fuck up to enter the White House since Harding.
.
.
Dow Drops Below 22K, Stocks Trade Lower as Wall Street Can't Shake Steep Slide
.
.

Fed has raised the rates 4 times to hurt the Trump economy. Stop lying, that's why it's happening. The fed should be locked up.

 

[Mac1958]

Trump won't STFU, he's not going to change, he has no idea what he's doing. And Mnuchin's comments were a perfect example of a clueless administration.

I agree that this medicine is needed, as long as we're keeping an eye on things. Real estate has fallen off the table in important areas, and as you point out above, business capex may tail off. Plus we have this guy in the White House. We just have to keep our hands on the freakin' wheel here.
.

I agree.

But again, the rise in real estate was induced in part, though not entirely, by the Fed and their ridiculously low interest rates. Oddly, we have a very bifurcated real estate market. We have too many upper end homes and not enough on the lower end. If you look at NAHB data, there's roughly 7 months of supply, slightly above the long-term average of ~6 months. But at the upper end, there's 9 months of supply and at the lower end, there's 3 months. All the homebuilders have been focusing on the upper end because they can make profits there but can't make a dime on the lower end because of increasing costs and regulations. And the silly prices are in certain metro areas. Where I live, home prices haven't gone crazy. But they have in other parts of the state.

There's also too much retail space and too many restaurants. Some of that supply is going to have to be wiped out.

Sears is helping with that ,,Macy's closing many stores etc etc

You could shoot freakin' cannon through the major malls in my area without hurting anyone.

Brick & mortar is in real trouble, and I'll guarantee you that at some point Amazon will be in the crosshairs.
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[Faun]

Well at least we have a President that has a shot of understanding economics, and finance with his business background, and acumen, and he did go to a good business school, so he has the foundation. Unlike most former Presidents who have just been lawyers, and community organizers.

And he knows the best words. Like Covfefe.

 

[miketx]

I built this.

 

[Pilot1]

^^^^^Trickle up poverty. You didn't build that!!! Only government...……

Fundamental Transformation!!!

 

[miketx]

^^^^^Trickle up poverty. You didn't build that!!! Only government...……

Fundamental Transformation!!!

That sorry bastard did everything he could to hurt this country. And people begged for it.

 

[Marion Morrison]

^^^^^Trickle up poverty. You didn't build that!!! Only government...……

Fundamental Transformation!!!

That sorry bastard did everything he could to hurt this country. And people begged for it.

It's a good thing he was kinda lazy.

 

[Toro]

We've just gotta be careful here. The economy isn't that sturdy.

Mac1958

What are you seeing in the real economy?

 

[Mac1958]

We've just gotta be careful here. The economy isn't that sturdy.

Mac1958

What are you seeing in the real economy?

Real estate has me very concerned. It has completely vanished in some parts of the country, just dropped off the freakin' table, my area included. I had heard the same thing about capex, and that's another one. Wages still haven't increased enough. So even if many numbers still do look good overall, and they do, I think we've seen the best of this. If we head into a bear, that's going to start a chain reaction. The shit coming from DC is only making it shakier.

Would you like a sleeper issue? The shadow business loan area. The market is stuffed with companies offering business loans to anything that moves (sound familiar?) and the leverage is increasing. It reminds me of the days of 2006 and 2007 when home mortgage companies were offering those fucking insane 125% no doc loans. It's too easy. A lot of this money is coming from BDCs and (worse) non-traded BDCs (holy shit), and I don't like the way that smells at all.

Nothing is on fire right now. But I wouldn't make long term plans based on the status quo. We went to about 50% cash a month ago. I don't even trust bonds on either end right now.

 

[BS Filter]

Duh Donald blaming the Fed Reserve and wants to deny:

1. HIS government shutdown
2. Erratic, out of nowhere Middle East policy change and
3. Firing of an admired and venerable former Marine General, Jim Mattis.

Biggest drop in the stock market since

He's the biggest fuck up to enter the White House since Harding.
.
.
Dow Drops Below 22K, Stocks Trade Lower as Wall Street Can't Shake Steep Slide
.
.

Awesome!
Burn this motherfucker to the fucking ground.

I hope the god that the government never recovers from what is happening and all the failed government get a permanent furlough, that the Democrats could of avoided by putting a measly ole 5 billion in the budget for the wall, that the US people want. But instead the Democrats want illegals to be here, they want more Radical Muslims from the middle east here, and like Obama did with Mattis, fired someone who follows the Democrats more than the people.

American people? Voted overwhelmingly anti trump and the GOP in last elections.

Then how did the GOP gain in the Senate?

Looool can someone explain to this guy please.

I understand it completely. Democrat candidate gets 20 million votes over his opponent in the House. Republican candidate gets only 2000 votes over his opponent in the Senate. Therefore, according to your warped thinking the American people are voting overwhelmingly for democrats. Your point is a meaningless one. The real point is that our founders devised a beautiful system of checks and balances. You also forget that the Senate is where ALL judges are confirmed. Good luck with that when Ginsberg falls over into her soup.

 

[Marion Morrison]

LOLOL

Moron...

Obama:

• DJIA: UP 149%
• NASDAQ: UP 265%
• S&P500: UP 167%

Trump:

• DJIA: UP 10%
• NASDAQ: UP 11%
• S&P500: UP 4%

Yeah, there was no place to go but up with Obama. Misleading post. Then again, you are the epitome of a dishonest hack, almost FakeyJakey level.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

O was exponentially worse. Sorry bub, you're wrong again.

Sorry, bub, but it was Dubya who was worse, in case you've already forgotten the 2008 recession that was the worst since 1929.

Sad that you just blurt your feelings here instead of facts.

Worst economic crisis since the Great Depression? By a long shot.
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Facts are that W and O were the cream of the bottom of the outhouse.

And yet Rump easily slides below both, weird huh!

He hasnt reached those depths yet.

Yeah, he's gotta go up quite a bit.

No, O and W brought us endless wars, massive debt, failed foreign and domestic policies.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Duh Donald blaming the Fed Reserve and wants to deny:

1. HIS government shutdown
2. Erratic, out of nowhere Middle East policy change and
3. Firing of an admired and venerable former Marine General, Jim Mattis.

Biggest drop in the stock market since

He's the biggest fuck up to enter the White House since Harding.
.
.
Dow Drops Below 22K, Stocks Trade Lower as Wall Street Can't Shake Steep Slide
.
.

You are a left wing nut, and therefor stupid as hell. then why explain anything to you? I don't know except I have time and someone who thinks might read this.

The dive in the market is part correction and part due to the Fed and raising interest rates. Now, if you read this and believe it, congratulations, you are a little bit smarter that you were seconds ago. If you stick to your left wing stupidity and don't believe it well, I can't help you. Either way, bye.

When do you raise them then? When the market goes down?? The raise is protection if trumps economy goes to hell Then they can lower

Did you actually read my post?

Where did I say it was a bad thing? Raising the rates helps protect against inflation. It needs to be done. I don't get upset. I look at where my 401k was when 0bama the Idiot was in the WH and where it is now. I'm pretty happy about that.

LOLOL

Moron...

Obama:

• DJIA: UP 149%
• NASDAQ: UP 265%
• S&P500: UP 167%

Trump:

• DJIA: UP 10%
• NASDAQ: UP 11%
• S&P500: UP 4%

Lol.

 

[Crepitus]

Sorry, bub, but it was Dubya who was worse, in case you've already forgotten the 2008 recession that was the worst since 1929.

Sad that you just blurt your feelings here instead of facts.

Worst economic crisis since the Great Depression? By a long shot.
.
.
.

Facts are that W and O were the cream of the bottom of the outhouse.

And yet Rump easily slides below both, weird huh!

He hasnt reached those depths yet.

Yeah, he's gotta go up quite a bit.

No, O and W brought us endless wars, massive debt, failed foreign and domestic policies.

I know! It's hard to believe tRump could do worse!

But he has.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Facts are that W and O were the cream of the bottom of the outhouse.

And yet Rump easily slides below both, weird huh!

He hasnt reached those depths yet.

Yeah, he's gotta go up quite a bit.

No, O and W brought us endless wars, massive debt, failed foreign and domestic policies.

I know! It's hard to believe tRump could do worse!

But he has.

Lol, wrong again.