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Dow drops 653 pts in 1/2 day - Trump blames (of course) somebody else....

From the NYTimes
Economy Is Strong. Leadership Is Shaky. Which Will Win Out in 2019?

Moves like Mnuchin’s phone calls to bank C.E.O.s could create a broader crisis of confidence.


Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin in early December. Over the weekend, he seemed to be trying to reassure financial markets. He spread some alarm instead.CreditEvan Vucci/Associated Pre

By Neil Irwin

  • Dec. 24, 2018
Sometime in the last couple of months, predictions of a major economic downturn or recession in 2019 went from being a crank view to the conventional wisdom.

It is true that the global economy is sputtering, and that the stock market is in its worst pullback in a decade, with the Standard & Poor’s 500 index down more than 19 percent since Sept. 20 as of Monday’s close. But this sense of gloom and pessimism has gotten ahead of the facts on the ground, especially concerning the United States economy.

The real risk is not that insurmountable challenges knock the economy off course. It is that poor leadership converts moderate economic shocks into a crisis.

The combination of erratic behavior from the president and a thinly staffed government in the United States; the potential crises facing other major economies; and the lack of trust amid allies and major trade partners could make routine economic challenges turn into something worse.

corporateexecutives. And over the weekend Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin called bank C.E.O.s to seek assurance that their institutions were sufficiently liquid to keep lending to consumers and businesses, according to a Treasury announcement.

It was the kind of disclosure that risked causing more damage than it was intended to prevent. If a top health official announced that he had convened conversations with top pharmaceutical C.E.O.s and was pleased to learn there were no drug shortages, your first response would not be relief but to ask, “Wait, we need to worry about drug shortages?”

Then there are the president’s repeated attacks on a Federal Reserve led by his own appointees. Just in the last three days, that has included reports that President Trump has discussed the legally dubious move of trying to fire the Fed chairman Jerome Powell, efforts by administration officials to play down that possibility, and a renewed presidential Twitter attack Monday morning.




Donald J. Trump

✔@realDonaldTrump

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1077231267559755776

The only problem our economy has is the Fed. They don’t have a feel for the Market, they don’t understand necessary Trade Wars or Strong Dollars or even Democrat Shutdowns over Borders. The Fed is like a powerful golfer who can’t score because he has no touch - he can’t puttt10:55 AM - Dec 24, 2018
 
Duh Donald blaming the Fed Reserve and wants to deny:

1. HIS government shutdown
2. Erratic, out of nowhere Middle East policy change and
3. Firing of an admired and venerable former Marine General, Jim Mattis.

Biggest drop in the stock market since

He's the biggest fuck up to enter the White House since Harding.
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Dow Drops Below 22K, Stocks Trade Lower as Wall Street Can't Shake Steep Slide
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You butt hurt liberals never take responsibility for your sorry ass actions. Deny, deny, deny, then you fucking wonder why the shit is going to crap...
Wait. So liberals are too blame?
 
You turds still don't get this, and if you are bright enough to understand it...and still deny it....you fuckers are born Socialists!
wkjnxVG.jpg

Dude, c'mon.

That's silly.
 
Duh Donald blaming the Fed Reserve and wants to deny:

1. HIS government shutdown
2. Erratic, out of nowhere Middle East policy change and
3. Firing of an admired and venerable former Marine General, Jim Mattis.

Biggest drop in the stock market since

He's the biggest fuck up to enter the White House since Harding.
.
.
Dow Drops Below 22K, Stocks Trade Lower as Wall Street Can't Shake Steep Slide
.
.

Shut down "da gubermint" and they can leave it that way. for all I care.

Leftards couldn't careless about spending billions for wetbacks whose women aim their uteruses at us and squirt out anchor babies that we pay the cost of.....and why would they? Leftards are depending on them as the foundation of their next voter bloc. God knows that they have all the coveted traits the demcrat commie party looks for like being uneducated, poorly skilled and dependent on "gubermint"
handouts.

Erratic Middle East policy by removing our troops from Syria? A place they shouldn't have been sent too to begin with? You are afraid of the CIA/deep state proxy army and how they might be emboldened to come to America? But yet you don't give a shit about a porous southern border?

GFO.....


Mattis is a war hawk and I never liked the fact that he was appointed. The military industrial complex/deep state had plans for Syria....tough shit. Putin would never allow that to happen. Funny how leftards are all of the sudden so eager for war with Russia......so fucking butthurt over the election while believing that it was the ROOSKIES that exposed the crooked, corrupt and criminal DNC that they want vengeance? Lace up those army boots, grab your purse and shag-ass over there....take ALL your leftards with you.
 
I've been wondering about the back end of the loan and loan companies I mentioned. I'm assuming that the loans are actually covered and not spun off into shit CDOs and the like. That would at least stop too much contagion if the shit hit the fan. And again, I agree that this stuff by itself is not systemic.

We backed out of high yield when we backed out of equities last month. We use funds and not individual bonds, so it wasn't worth it.

Interesting perspective, thanks.
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The loans are housed to a large extent in structured products - CLOs - as well as BDCs and other non-bank institutions. But they aren't systematic to the financial system because they aren't sitting on the books of highly leveraged, regulated banking institutions.

Remember, during the GFC, the big, large banks were leveraged up to 30:1, and even higher if you included the off-balance sheet SIVs and such. The GSEs were leveraged 100:1. So when the housing bubble collapsed, it wiped out the equity of the banking system as total net equity in the banking system effectively went below zero. That froze everything, and the economy collapsed. Today, leverage in the banking system is 10-12:1, and equity is at the highest level in decades.

During the GFC, CLO equity was actually made whole, even though they were very volatile, which is pretty amazing when you think about it. That's because the income of the structures that waterfalled down to the equity exceeded the default and recovery rates of the underlying loans. That may not happen this time as I think recovery rates will be lower. But the equity of CLOs aren't held by banks. They are held by hedge funds, insurance companies, pensions, sovereign wealth funds, etc. Those pools of capital aren't systematic. If those groups sustain losses, it won't matter much to the rest of the system.

Where there could be real fireworks is in the ETF markets. There is a liquidity mismatch between the assets and liabilities, particularly in the bond ETFs. If the selling gets out of hand, you could see a run on ETFs where they freeze redemptions. That's not systematic like 08-09, but it could hurt confidence. Personally, I wouldn't mind because then we'd come in and start buying the bonds at 80-85 cents on the dollar!

The real systematic risk is overseas, particularly in China, which has an unbalanced, debt-fueled economy that is a disaster waiting to happen; and Italy, if they eventually leave the eurozone. If either of those implode, look out.
Yeah, I go back and forth on ETFs, particularly on the bond side. Liquidity is always an issue, and I'm just more warm & fuzzy on active management for fixed income. You're right, the market (including me) doesn't have 100% confidence in bond ETFs for that reason. I wonder what a freeze-up in bond ETFs would actually look like in real time. Wouldn't this require a fairly sharp spike to happen?

And I'm not sure what I think of this notion of non-banks holding the CLOs. My impulse is that banks are already fat enough. On the other hand, having those other investors hold them has its own risks. I may just be be overly sensitive because of the mechanics of the Meltdown. What do you guys think of that?
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Sears came into existence providing consumers with a cornucopia of things delivered to them directly. A company with that history should have seen coming the opportunity that Amazon seized.
Big corporations often blow their position through losing original sense and devolving into a distracted group of overpaid, barely competent managers expert only at maintaining their position.
Religions and similar human constructs seem to suffer similar fates. Exciting ideas at the start, then big success, then large organization, then, decay. Nations, ideologies...human failure to learn from human history.
 
I hope these GD TrumpenBITCHES don't pretend they weren't in his corner all the way until the day AFTER he makes this place completed FUBAR!

It was only Weeks ago Obama was taking credit. Now, he runs.
He could take credit for leaving a strong and growing economy to the moron who patted himself on the back for doing it all by himself Face it ,,,We have an egotistical moron in our WH and the sooner he goes the better off our country will be
 
Yeah, I go back and forth on ETFs, particularly on the bond side. Liquidity is always an issue, and I'm just more warm & fuzzy on active management for fixed income. You're right, the market (including me) doesn't have 100% confidence in bond ETFs for that reason. I wonder what a freeze-up in bond ETFs would actually look like in real time. Wouldn't this require a fairly sharp spike to happen?

And I'm not sure what I think of this notion of non-banks holding the CLOs. My impulse is that banks are already fat enough. On the other hand, having those other investors hold them has its own risks. I may just be be overly sensitive because of the mechanics of the Meltdown. What do you guys think of that?
.

I could see people selling the high yield ETFs first, then people starting to panic and selling the loan ETFs and maybe the IG ETFs as well. A lot of people are in loan ETFs because of the floating rate, but loans have had a negative correlation to Treasuries, and can lose money when the value of the principle goes down. In fairness, though, the high yield ETFs were crushed in 08-09 and they survived, and what we are going through now won't be anywhere near as bad as that. My worry is that so many people were hungry for yield that they bought these things thinking they are something that they are not.

The institutions can handle them. The total loan market is worth $1 trillion. I can't remember exactly how big the CLO market is, but I think it's in the $400-$500 billion range. The equity is about 10% of the structure, so that's $40-$50 billion in exposure. If the default rate spikes to 10% - which would be extremely high - and the recovery rate 50% - which would be very low - that would imply $20-$25 billion in losses, which is manageable. The bailout of AIG alone was $85 billion. So it's not that big of a problem. Especially when you consider that CLO equity lost exactly $0 in principle during the greatest economic crisis of our lifetimes.
 
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Leaving now Just want to give an extra thanks to toro and mac for great educational posts Hope we run across each other again
 
Duh Donald blaming the Fed Reserve and wants to deny:

1. HIS government shutdown
2. Erratic, out of nowhere Middle East policy change and
3. Firing of an admired and venerable former Marine General, Jim Mattis.

Biggest drop in the stock market since

He's the biggest fuck up to enter the White House since Harding.
.
.
Dow Drops Below 22K, Stocks Trade Lower as Wall Street Can't Shake Steep Slide
.
.

Awesome!
Burn this motherfucker to the fucking ground.
I hope the god that the government never recovers from what is happening and all the failed government get a permanent furlough, that the Democrats could of avoided by putting a measly ole 5 billion in the budget for the wall, that the US people want. But instead the Democrats want illegals to be here, they want more Radical Muslims from the middle east here, and like Obama did with Mattis, fired someone who follows the Democrats more than the people.
American people? Voted overwhelmingly anti trump and the GOP in last elections.
Yeah, in 2018 the votes just kept showing up, recount after recount. Some not even filled out..
9 million ? Show us evidence.
 
Awesome!
Burn this motherfucker to the fucking ground.
I hope the god that the government never recovers from what is happening and all the failed government get a permanent furlough, that the Democrats could of avoided by putting a measly ole 5 billion in the budget for the wall, that the US people want. But instead the Democrats want illegals to be here, they want more Radical Muslims from the middle east here, and like Obama did with Mattis, fired someone who follows the Democrats more than the people.
American people? Voted overwhelmingly anti trump and the GOP in last elections.
Then how did the GOP gain in the Senate?
Looool can someone explain to this guy please.
I understand it completely. Democrat candidate gets 20 million votes over his opponent in the House. Republican candidate gets only 2000 votes over his opponent in the Senate. Therefore, according to your warped thinking the American people are voting overwhelmingly for democrats. Your point is a meaningless one. The real point is that our founders devised a beautiful system of checks and balances. You also forget that the Senate is where ALL judges are confirmed. Good luck with that when Ginsberg falls over into her soup.
The founders were short sighted, democracy is the rule of the majority...not being dragged by a lunatic regressive 26% of the filth that live mostly in shithole areas in the US. It's gonna be 2019 and you still wanna be ruled by a law that dates 300 years ago?
 
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Duh Donald blaming the Fed Reserve and wants to deny:

1. HIS government shutdown
2. Erratic, out of nowhere Middle East policy change and
3. Firing of an admired and venerable former Marine General, Jim Mattis.

Biggest drop in the stock market since

He's the biggest fuck up to enter the White House since Harding.
.
.
Dow Drops Below 22K, Stocks Trade Lower as Wall Street Can't Shake Steep Slide
.
.

The stock market is going down because interest rates are rising and the Fed is reducing the size of its balance sheet.

Trump's tariffs and his idiotic bleatings about Powell are adding to it, but Trump isn't the primary cause of the decline.

You are mostly correct. The Trump haters here will never accept that.
Yes the market loves the uncertainty trump brings to our nation

Idiot.

the market loved what he brought. that's why it went up sharply as soon as he was elected.
 
LOLOL

Moron...

Obama:
  • DJIA: UP 149%
  • NASDAQ: UP 265%
  • S&P500: UP 167%
Trump:
  • DJIA: UP 10%
  • NASDAQ: UP 11%
  • S&P500: UP 4%


Yeah, there was no place to go but up with Obama. Misleading post. Then again, you are the epitome of a dishonest hack, almost FakeyJakey level.

He's complete moron, but has a loud mouth and thinks that makes a difference.
 
I hope the god that the government never recovers from what is happening and all the failed government get a permanent furlough, that the Democrats could of avoided by putting a measly ole 5 billion in the budget for the wall, that the US people want. But instead the Democrats want illegals to be here, they want more Radical Muslims from the middle east here, and like Obama did with Mattis, fired someone who follows the Democrats more than the people.
American people? Voted overwhelmingly anti trump and the GOP in last elections.
Then how did the GOP gain in the Senate?
Looool can someone explain to this guy please.
I understand it completely. Democrat candidate gets 20 million votes over his opponent in the House. Republican candidate gets only 2000 votes over his opponent in the Senate. Therefore, according to your warped thinking the American people are voting overwhelmingly for democrats. Your point is a meaningless one. The real point is that our founders devised a beautiful system of checks and balances. You also forget that the Senate is where ALL judges are confirmed. Good luck with that when Ginsberg falls over into her soup.
The founders were short sighted, democracy is the rule of the majority...not being dragged by a lunatic regressive 26% of the filth that live mostly in shithole areas in the US. It's gonna be 2019 and you still wanna be ruled by a law that dates 300 years ago?

This is why we need to keep foreign piece of shits out of our country....They hate the U.S. Constitution and the dynamics which built the greatest nation on the planet...Take your raghead ass back to where you came from.....PLEASE!
 

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