Elizabeth Warren? Seriously?

[ChrisL]

So Pogo, Elizabeth admits that represented herself as a native American at several different colleges that she attended. She was also listed as a minority in several different articles that featured her as a member of staff.

When confronted, she eventually admitted (after some denial of knowing about it at all), that she had in fact done this. She said her reason was because she wanted to "meet other people like me." When confronted with the fact that there was no traceable lineage to any kind of native American heritage in her family tree, she said that she based it upon stories told to her by her elder family members.

Now, I think you would have to be either dishonest or a complete retard to represent yourself as a minority based upon such things. I think any reasonable person would agree with that assessment too.

 

[Pogo]

Nobody in Lizzy Cheekbones family was Cherokee, therefore she's lying.

It's that simple!

Your proof, sir...
Your proof, sir...
Your proof, sir...
Your proof, sir...

Here's the proof Lizzy Cheekbones is Lying

"The Great Grandparents
John Houston Crawford, the great grandfather of Ms. Warren, was the son of Preston H. Crawford and Edith May "Ede" Marsh. He was born in Laclede County, Missouri, on March 26, 1858. He was found on the 1860 US Census as John H. Crauford, living in Hooker, Laclede County, Missouri, with his parents and siblings; race listed as white. He was found on the 1870 US Census living in Hooker, Laclede County, Missouri, with his father and siblings; race listed as white. He was found on the 1880 US Census as JH Crawford, living in Grant, Johnson County, Arkansas with his wife, children and a farm laboror; race listed as white. He was found on the 1900 US Census as John H. Crofford, living in Township 12, CherokeeNation, Indian Territory with his children- RENTS; race listed as white,found on the regular census schedule, not the Special Schedule for Indians. He married Sarah E. Smith on September 2, 1904 in Laclede County, Missouri. He was found on the 1910 US Census listed as JH Crowford, living in Wetumka Ward 4, Hughes County, Oklahoma with his wife, two of his children and a step-daughter; race listed as white. He died January 23, 1924 and was buried in Wetumka Cemetery in Wetumka, Hughes County, Oklahoma.

Read more: Thoughts from Polly s Granddaughter Elizabeth Warren s Ancestry - Part 1

This is not "proof" sir. This is a bowl of cherrypicks. The body of Elizabeth Warren's (or anybody's) ancestry cannot be limited to two seleted great-grandparents. Have a four-year-old explain this to you.

Quoting my analogy from before what you're trying to cherrypick here is the equivalent of:
"Barack O'bama's mother was white, and so were both her parents; therefore he has no black ancestry".

It's horseshit.

 

[Antares]

You could never spank me kid, you ain't up to it.

I've already shown that a professional couldn't find that lineage.

I'm surprised YOU came back to take my foot up your ass.

And I already showed you that a professional already did. From the same org you cited.

Go louder, maybe it'll... get pulled from the internet. Yeah that's the ticket.

Doesn't matter anyway; the burden is yours to prove the negative; it isn't hers to prove the positive.

So then, she is just stupid, right? I mean, everyone knows that you cannot claim that you are minority without some kind of record of being so, besides family stories. And THIS is the woman that you want running our country? Yikes! Lol! I was hoping you were more intelligent than Elizabeth.

Umm... no. Failing your own burden of proof doesn't make a third party "stupid" because you can't do it. Not on this planet. Nor did she claim "minority" which you also can't prove.

As far as "who I want running this country" I've said nothing about that because I know nothing about that. I know three people who have indicated they're probably interested in running, and none of them is Liz Warren.

But feel free to fail to prove that too.

Oh, but she did. She is either stupid (even I would know not to portray myself as a minority without proper documentation), or she is just plain dishonest. Kind of like you actually!

Your proof, madam...
Your proof, madam...
Your proof, madam...
Your proof, madam...

Talk is cheap.

I don't know,maybe it's just me....but with you being nothing but a five dollar ho...I'd say you were the "cheap"one

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Nobody in Lizzy Cheekbones family was Cherokee, therefore she's lying.

It's that simple!

Your proof, sir...
Your proof, sir...
Your proof, sir...
Your proof, sir...

Here's the proof Lizzy Cheekbones is Lying

"The Great Grandparents
John Houston Crawford, the great grandfather of Ms. Warren, was the son of Preston H. Crawford and Edith May "Ede" Marsh. He was born in Laclede County, Missouri, on March 26, 1858. He was found on the 1860 US Census as John H. Crauford, living in Hooker, Laclede County, Missouri, with his parents and siblings; race listed as white. He was found on the 1870 US Census living in Hooker, Laclede County, Missouri, with his father and siblings; race listed as white. He was found on the 1880 US Census as JH Crawford, living in Grant, Johnson County, Arkansas with his wife, children and a farm laboror; race listed as white. He was found on the 1900 US Census as John H. Crofford, living in Township 12, CherokeeNation, Indian Territory with his children- RENTS; race listed as white,found on the regular census schedule, not the Special Schedule for Indians. He married Sarah E. Smith on September 2, 1904 in Laclede County, Missouri. He was found on the 1910 US Census listed as JH Crowford, living in Wetumka Ward 4, Hughes County, Oklahoma with his wife, two of his children and a step-daughter; race listed as white. He died January 23, 1924 and was buried in Wetumka Cemetery in Wetumka, Hughes County, Oklahoma.

Read more: Thoughts from Polly s Granddaughter Elizabeth Warren s Ancestry - Part 1

This is not "proof" sir. This is a bowl of cherrypicks. The body of Elizabeth Warren's (or anybody's) ancestry cannot be limited to two seleted great-grandparents. Have a four-year-old explain this to you.

Quoting my analogy from before what you're trying to cherrypick here is the equivalent of:
"Barack O'bama's mother was white, and so were both her parents; therefore he has no black ancestry".

It's horseshit.

Whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhat??

Are you now saying she was adopted?

Who was the Cherokee in her family?

Can you name him or her?

 

[Antares]

Pogo

What is combat?

 

[Antares]

JakeStarkey

Where in Omaha were you Jake?

 

[Pogo]

So Pogo, Elizabeth admits that represented herself as a native American at several different colleges that she attended. She was also listed as a minority in several different articles that featured her as a member of staff.

And you have two different things going on here you're trying to conflate hoping nobody notices, missy:

(one thing) - listed herself as "Native American"
(other thing) - was listed as a "minority"

I've color coded them so you're seeing eye dog can lead you to them.

Now we're off to English class. What do we notice that's different in the actions between these two:
1) "she listed herself"
2) "she was listed"
Who's doing the listing?

In example 1, "she" is doing her own listing ("herself" being reflexive). In example 2, some outside party is doing it. "Was listed" is passive voice. Means it was done TO or ABOUT her, by entites not stated. In this case we know that these entities were a couple of universities where she was employed.

That's not EW doing the listing. It's a university bureaucrat.

Now let's go to the original claim that started this bullshit-ball rolling - by a political election opponent. Scott Brown said,

“[Elizabeth Warren] checked the box. She had an opportunity, actually, to make a decision throughout her career. When she applied to Penn and Harvard, she checked the box claiming she was Native American, and, you know, clearly she’s not.”

Yet Penn and Harvard have gone on record saying she did no such thing, that they were not told or aware of any such ethnicity, and in fact the only "boxes" she "checked that we know of were (1) at the U of Texas (where they asked for ethnicity, the choices including "Native American or Alaskan Native") where she checked only "White" (and this would be after hiring anyway)*; and (2) at Rutgers where the application asked, “Are you interested in applying for admission under the Program for Minority Group Students?" where she checked “no”. Both of these are on record.

*(source here, which also notes:

>> Lopez said professors typically do not fill out standard job applications and instead rely on curriculum vitae when applying for jobs. Once hired, professors and other employees are required to fill out a larger biographical form, which includes the minority identification question. Lopez said the school’s records indicate that Warren did not update her form after she first filled it out, probably sometime around 1981. <<​

So there is no box to check upon application anyway. There may be such a box for those applying for janitor but this is a professional position -- which echoes my experience in the same institutions; you don't sit in the lobby filling out a standard employment form, you send a résumé, a CV and letters of recommendation)

So it would appear there is indeed a liar here, and he's so full of shit his name is Brown.

Not enough? Let's see what else ol' Brown-eyes said. This directly from their debate:
“Professor Warren claimed she was a Native American, a person of color -- and as you can see, she is not.”

Let that sink in... "as you can see". Really. See my earlier post of all those Cherokee faces.
"As you can see". I guess because hey, Elvis isn't wearing a feather headdress and patting his mouth going "woo-boo-boo". Della Reese isn't shooting arrows. Winston Churchill not smoke-um peace pipe. "As we can see", they can't be Native American.

Please.

Your other point that she used such status either to facilitate her hire at any of these institutions or receive advantages on its basis, have not only no evidence, but has been in fact contradicted by those institution's hiring personnel and Warren herself via the record of her specifically declining admission on that basis (Rutgers above).

When confronted, she eventually admitted (after some denial of knowing about it at all), that she had in fact done this. She said her reason was because she wanted to "meet other people like me." When confronted with the fact that there was no traceable lineage to any kind of native American heritage in her family tree, she said that she based it upon stories told to her by her elder family members.

Now, I think you would have to be either dishonest or a complete retard to represent yourself as a minority based upon such things. I think any reasonable person would agree with that assessment too.

Wrong. She "admitted" (your term) to having disclosed heritage into to Harvard and Penn after being already hired -- which is a different animal from what she may have listed for herself with AALS. Whatever the Ivy schools did with that info we touched on above (their actions, not hers); the AALS listing format -- which is unrelated to these school administrations -- does not specify "Native American"/"Black"/"Asian" etc, but simply the one broad category of "minority". And as we touched on before, "minority" in this age of Affirmative Action in its complete form includes women.

Now as to the "claim" basis (the weasel word "claim" is noted; it was no such thing), none of those listings, forms, interviews, etc require a documentation for validation. Where any such documentation IS required is in being counted as a member of the Cherokee Nation, i.e being a citizen of that nation. This is where the "documentation" fad keeps creeping in --- but Elizabeth Warren has never claimed to be a citizen of the Cherokee Nation. So that benchmark is also bullshit.

I mean I have Irish ethnicity -- plenty of it from both parents -- but that doesn't make me a damn citizen of Ireland, nor do I claim it does.

Finally (fair warning Frank--- stop reading here) we still have that inconvenient genealogy record from 1894.
Have a look at that crap Frank keeps posting ---- cherrypicked census forms from two great-grandparents (out of 8) stating "white" -- as if a box on a census form, checked in a time when checking "Indian" would have been self-identifying with a lower caste --- is somehow a more reliable indicator than family lore. How come you're not mocking Frank for that speciousity?

Family history is suspect but a census answer form is not?
Having it both ways: Priceless.

Oh wait, that would be confirmed family lore. Her siblings already corroborated it.

Your move.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

JakeStarkey

Where in Omaha were you Jake?

Jake is in Utah

 

[Antares]

JakeStarkey

Where in Omaha were you Jake?

Jake is in Utah

According to him he was here in Omaha yesterday.

 

[Pogo]

And I already showed you that a professional already did. From the same org you cited.

Go louder, maybe it'll... get pulled from the internet. Yeah that's the ticket.

Doesn't matter anyway; the burden is yours to prove the negative; it isn't hers to prove the positive.

So then, she is just stupid, right? I mean, everyone knows that you cannot claim that you are minority without some kind of record of being so, besides family stories. And THIS is the woman that you want running our country? Yikes! Lol! I was hoping you were more intelligent than Elizabeth.

Umm... no. Failing your own burden of proof doesn't make a third party "stupid" because you can't do it. Not on this planet. Nor did she claim "minority" which you also can't prove.

As far as "who I want running this country" I've said nothing about that because I know nothing about that. I know three people who have indicated they're probably interested in running, and none of them is Liz Warren.

But feel free to fail to prove that too.

Oh, but she did. She is either stupid (even I would know not to portray myself as a minority without proper documentation), or she is just plain dishonest. Kind of like you actually!

Your proof, madam...
Your proof, madam...
Your proof, madam...
Your proof, madam...

Talk is cheap.

Yes Lizzy has proved talk is very cheap. Where's her proof?

Your claim; your burden.
Can't handle the burden? Then don't make the claim.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So Pogo, Elizabeth admits that represented herself as a native American at several different colleges that she attended. She was also listed as a minority in several different articles that featured her as a member of staff.

And you have two different things going on here you're trying to conflate hoping nobody notices, missy:

(one thing) - listed herself as "Native American"
(other thing) - was listed as a "minority"

I've color coded them so you're seeing eye dog can lead you to them.

Now we're off to English class. What do we notice that's different in the actions between these two:
1) "she listed herself"
2) "she was listed"
Who's doing the listing?

In example 1, "she" is doing her own listing ("herself" being reflexive). In example 2, some outside party is doing it. "Was listed" is passive voice. Means it was done TO or ABOUT her, by entites not stated. In this case we know that these entities were a couple of universities where she was employed.

That's not EW doing the listing. It's a university bureaucrat.

Now let's go to the original claim that started this bullshit-ball rolling - by a political election opponent. Scott Brown said,

“[Elizabeth Warren] checked the box. She had an opportunity, actually, to make a decision throughout her career. When she applied to Penn and Harvard, she checked the box claiming she was Native American, and, you know, clearly she’s not.”

Yet Penn and Harvard have gone on record saying she did no such thing, that they were not told or aware of any such ethnicity, and in fact the only "boxes" she "checked that we know of were (1) at the U of Texas (where they asked for ethnicity, the choices including "Native American or Alaskan Native") where she checked only "White" (and this would be after hiring anyway)*; and (2) at Rutgers where the application asked, “Are you interested in applying for admission under the Program for Minority Group Students?" where she checked “no”. Both of these are on record.

*(source here, which also notes:

>> Lopez said professors typically do not fill out standard job applications and instead rely on curriculum vitae when applying for jobs. Once hired, professors and other employees are required to fill out a larger biographical form, which includes the minority identification question. Lopez said the school’s records indicate that Warren did not update her form after she first filled it out, probably sometime around 1981. <<​

So there is no box to check upon application anyway. There may be such a box for those applying for janitor but this is a professional position -- which echoes my experience in the same institutions; you don't sit in the lobby filling out a standard employment form, you send a résumé, a CV and letters of recommendation)

So it would appear there is indeed a liar here, and he's so full of shit his name is Brown.

Not enough? Let's see what else ol' Brown-eyes said. This directly from their debate:
“Professor Warren claimed she was a Native American, a person of color -- and as you can see, she is not.”

Let that sink in... "as you can see". Really. See my earlier post of all those Cherokee faces.
"As you can see". I guess because hey, Elvis isn't wearing a feather headdress and patting his mouth going "woo-boo-boo". Della Reese isn't shooting arrows. Winston Churchill not smoke-um peace pipe. "As we can see", they can't be Native American.

Please.

Your other point that she used such status either to facilitate her hire at any of these institutions or receive advantages on its basis, have not only no evidence, but has been in fact contradicted by those institution's hiring personnel and Warren herself via the record of her specifically declining admission on that basis (Rutgers above).

When confronted, she eventually admitted (after some denial of knowing about it at all), that she had in fact done this. She said her reason was because she wanted to "meet other people like me." When confronted with the fact that there was no traceable lineage to any kind of native American heritage in her family tree, she said that she based it upon stories told to her by her elder family members.

Now, I think you would have to be either dishonest or a complete retard to represent yourself as a minority based upon such things. I think any reasonable person would agree with that assessment too.

Wrong. She "admitted" (your term) to having disclosed heritage into to Harvard and Penn after being already hired -- which is a different animal from what she may have listed for herself with AALS. Whatever the Ivy schools did with that info we touched on above (their actions, not hers); the AALS listing format -- which is unrelated to these school administrations -- does not specify "Native American"/"Black"/"Asian" etc, but simply the one broad category of "minority". And as we touched on before, "minority" in this age of Affirmative Action in its complete form includes women.

Now as to the "claim" basis (the weasel word "claim" is noted; it was no such thing), none of those listings, forms, interviews, etc require a documentation for validation. Where any such documentation IS required is in being counted as a member of the Cherokee Nation, i.e being a citizen of that nation. This is where the "documentation" fad keeps creeping in --- but Elizabeth Warren has never claimed to be a citizen of the Cherokee Nation. So that benchmark is also bullshit.

I mean I have Irish ethnicity -- plenty of it from both parents -- but that doesn't make me a damn citizen of Ireland, nor do I claim it does.

Finally (fair warning Frank--- stop reading here) we still have that inconvenient genealogy record from 1894.
Have a look at that crap Frank keeps posting ---- cherrypicked census forms from two great-grandparents (out of 8) stating "white" -- as if a box on a census form, checked in a time when checking "Indian" would have been self-identifying with a lower caste --- is somehow a more reliable indicator than family lore. How come you're not mocking Frank for that speciousity?

Family history is suspect but a census answer form is not?
Having it both ways: Priceless.

Oh wait, that would be confirmed family lore. Her siblings already corroborated it.

Your move.

Pogo insists that Harvard and Penn listed Lizzy Cheekbones as Native American of their own volition. Further, since the great grandparents who live in Cherokee territory were white, it can only mean that Lizzy Cheekbones OTHER set of great grandparents, who neither Pogo nor Lizzy identify, must be Cherokee.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

JakeStarkey

Where in Omaha were you Jake?

Jake is in Utah

According to him he was here in Omaha yesterday.

He's also in TX and FL -- oh, and he's a Republican

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So then, she is just stupid, right? I mean, everyone knows that you cannot claim that you are minority without some kind of record of being so, besides family stories. And THIS is the woman that you want running our country? Yikes! Lol! I was hoping you were more intelligent than Elizabeth.

Umm... no. Failing your own burden of proof doesn't make a third party "stupid" because you can't do it. Not on this planet. Nor did she claim "minority" which you also can't prove.

As far as "who I want running this country" I've said nothing about that because I know nothing about that. I know three people who have indicated they're probably interested in running, and none of them is Liz Warren.

But feel free to fail to prove that too.

Oh, but she did. She is either stupid (even I would know not to portray myself as a minority without proper documentation), or she is just plain dishonest. Kind of like you actually!

Your proof, madam...
Your proof, madam...
Your proof, madam...
Your proof, madam...

Talk is cheap.

Yes Lizzy has proved talk is very cheap. Where's her proof?

Your claim; your burden.
Can't handle the burden? Then don't make the claim.

I showed you her ancestors were all white and therefore she's a liar

 

[Pogo]

Umm... no. Failing your own burden of proof doesn't make a third party "stupid" because you can't do it. Not on this planet. Nor did she claim "minority" which you also can't prove.

As far as "who I want running this country" I've said nothing about that because I know nothing about that. I know three people who have indicated they're probably interested in running, and none of them is Liz Warren.

But feel free to fail to prove that too.

Oh, but she did. She is either stupid (even I would know not to portray myself as a minority without proper documentation), or she is just plain dishonest. Kind of like you actually!

Your proof, madam...
Your proof, madam...
Your proof, madam...
Your proof, madam...

Talk is cheap.

Yes Lizzy has proved talk is very cheap. Where's her proof?

Your claim; your burden.
Can't handle the burden? Then don't make the claim.

I showed you her ancestors were all white and therefore she's a liar

Yyyyyyyah.

So you believe after fifty thousand years a human's ancestors reduce to two grea-grandparents.
Who presumably mate with what -- amoeba?

I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and guess that you don't work in the field of genealogy.
Or anything that involves logical deduction. Or thought.

 

[Pogo]

So Pogo, Elizabeth admits that represented herself as a native American at several different colleges that she attended. She was also listed as a minority in several different articles that featured her as a member of staff.

And you have two different things going on here you're trying to conflate hoping nobody notices, missy:

(one thing) - listed herself as "Native American"
(other thing) - was listed as a "minority"

I've color coded them so you're seeing eye dog can lead you to them.

Now we're off to English class. What do we notice that's different in the actions between these two:
1) "she listed herself"
2) "she was listed"
Who's doing the listing?

In example 1, "she" is doing her own listing ("herself" being reflexive). In example 2, some outside party is doing it. "Was listed" is passive voice. Means it was done TO or ABOUT her, by entites not stated. In this case we know that these entities were a couple of universities where she was employed.

That's not EW doing the listing. It's a university bureaucrat.

Now let's go to the original claim that started this bullshit-ball rolling - by a political election opponent. Scott Brown said,

“[Elizabeth Warren] checked the box. She had an opportunity, actually, to make a decision throughout her career. When she applied to Penn and Harvard, she checked the box claiming she was Native American, and, you know, clearly she’s not.”

Yet Penn and Harvard have gone on record saying she did no such thing, that they were not told or aware of any such ethnicity, and in fact the only "boxes" she "checked that we know of were (1) at the U of Texas (where they asked for ethnicity, the choices including "Native American or Alaskan Native") where she checked only "White" (and this would be after hiring anyway)*; and (2) at Rutgers where the application asked, “Are you interested in applying for admission under the Program for Minority Group Students?" where she checked “no”. Both of these are on record.

*(source here, which also notes:

>> Lopez said professors typically do not fill out standard job applications and instead rely on curriculum vitae when applying for jobs. Once hired, professors and other employees are required to fill out a larger biographical form, which includes the minority identification question. Lopez said the school’s records indicate that Warren did not update her form after she first filled it out, probably sometime around 1981. <<​

So there is no box to check upon application anyway. There may be such a box for those applying for janitor but this is a professional position -- which echoes my experience in the same institutions; you don't sit in the lobby filling out a standard employment form, you send a résumé, a CV and letters of recommendation)

So it would appear there is indeed a liar here, and he's so full of shit his name is Brown.

Not enough? Let's see what else ol' Brown-eyes said. This directly from their debate:
“Professor Warren claimed she was a Native American, a person of color -- and as you can see, she is not.”

Let that sink in... "as you can see". Really. See my earlier post of all those Cherokee faces.
"As you can see". I guess because hey, Elvis isn't wearing a feather headdress and patting his mouth going "woo-boo-boo". Della Reese isn't shooting arrows. Winston Churchill not smoke-um peace pipe. "As we can see", they can't be Native American.

Please.

Your other point that she used such status either to facilitate her hire at any of these institutions or receive advantages on its basis, have not only no evidence, but has been in fact contradicted by those institution's hiring personnel and Warren herself via the record of her specifically declining admission on that basis (Rutgers above).

When confronted, she eventually admitted (after some denial of knowing about it at all), that she had in fact done this. She said her reason was because she wanted to "meet other people like me." When confronted with the fact that there was no traceable lineage to any kind of native American heritage in her family tree, she said that she based it upon stories told to her by her elder family members.

Now, I think you would have to be either dishonest or a complete retard to represent yourself as a minority based upon such things. I think any reasonable person would agree with that assessment too.

Wrong. She "admitted" (your term) to having disclosed heritage into to Harvard and Penn after being already hired -- which is a different animal from what she may have listed for herself with AALS. Whatever the Ivy schools did with that info we touched on above (their actions, not hers); the AALS listing format -- which is unrelated to these school administrations -- does not specify "Native American"/"Black"/"Asian" etc, but simply the one broad category of "minority". And as we touched on before, "minority" in this age of Affirmative Action in its complete form includes women.

Now as to the "claim" basis (the weasel word "claim" is noted; it was no such thing), none of those listings, forms, interviews, etc require a documentation for validation. Where any such documentation IS required is in being counted as a member of the Cherokee Nation, i.e being a citizen of that nation. This is where the "documentation" fad keeps creeping in --- but Elizabeth Warren has never claimed to be a citizen of the Cherokee Nation. So that benchmark is also bullshit.

I mean I have Irish ethnicity -- plenty of it from both parents -- but that doesn't make me a damn citizen of Ireland, nor do I claim it does.

Finally (fair warning Frank--- stop reading here) we still have that inconvenient genealogy record from 1894.
Have a look at that crap Frank keeps posting ---- cherrypicked census forms from two great-grandparents (out of 8) stating "white" -- as if a box on a census form, checked in a time when checking "Indian" would have been self-identifying with a lower caste --- is somehow a more reliable indicator than family lore. How come you're not mocking Frank for that speciousity?

Family history is suspect but a census answer form is not?
Having it both ways: Priceless.

Oh wait, that would be confirmed family lore. Her siblings already corroborated it.

Your move.

Pogo insists that Harvard and Penn listed Lizzy Cheekbones as Native American of their own volition. Further, since the great grandparents who live in Cherokee territory were white, it can only mean that Lizzy Cheekbones OTHER set of great grandparents, who neither Pogo nor Lizzy identify, must be Cherokee.

That link you keep going over lists an "O.C. Sarah Smith".
She's listed as Cherokee, not amoeba. Funny how that works.

Yours in elucidation,
Captain Buzzkill

Now back to your regularly scheduled yoga position, the ostrichasana....

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Oh, but she did. She is either stupid (even I would know not to portray myself as a minority without proper documentation), or she is just plain dishonest. Kind of like you actually!

Your proof, madam...
Your proof, madam...
Your proof, madam...
Your proof, madam...

Talk is cheap.

Yes Lizzy has proved talk is very cheap. Where's her proof?

Your claim; your burden.
Can't handle the burden? Then don't make the claim.

I showed you her ancestors were all white and therefore she's a liar

Yyyyyyyah.

So you believe after fifty thousand years a human's ancestors reduce to two grea-grandparents.
Who presumably mate with what -- amoeba?

I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and guess that you don't work in the field of genealogy.
Or anything that involves logical deduction. Or thought.

There's something seriously fucking wrong with you.

Which of her ancestors were Cherokee? The great grandparents who lives in Cherokee territory were WHITE! Are you saying that she has other, as yet unidentified great grandparents who were Cherokees and living where -- in France?

Tell us again how Winston Churchill said Lizzy is an Indian

 

[Antares]

Your proof, madam...
Your proof, madam...
Your proof, madam...
Your proof, madam...

Talk is cheap.

Yes Lizzy has proved talk is very cheap. Where's her proof?

Your claim; your burden.
Can't handle the burden? Then don't make the claim.

I showed you her ancestors were all white and therefore she's a liar

Yyyyyyyah.

So you believe after fifty thousand years a human's ancestors reduce to two grea-grandparents.
Who presumably mate with what -- amoeba?

I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and guess that you don't work in the field of genealogy.
Or anything that involves logical deduction. Or thought.

There's something seriously fucking wrong with you.

Which of her ancestors were Cherokee? The great grandparents who lives in Cherokee territory were WHITE! Are you saying that she has other, as yet unidentified great grandparents who were Cherokees and living where -- in France?

Tell us again how Winston Churchill said Lizzy is an Indian

Pogo simply cannot EVER except that anyone from his side would or could do something wrong.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So Pogo, Elizabeth admits that represented herself as a native American at several different colleges that she attended. She was also listed as a minority in several different articles that featured her as a member of staff.

And you have two different things going on here you're trying to conflate hoping nobody notices, missy:

(one thing) - listed herself as "Native American"
(other thing) - was listed as a "minority"

I've color coded them so you're seeing eye dog can lead you to them.

Now we're off to English class. What do we notice that's different in the actions between these two:
1) "she listed herself"
2) "she was listed"
Who's doing the listing?

In example 1, "she" is doing her own listing ("herself" being reflexive). In example 2, some outside party is doing it. "Was listed" is passive voice. Means it was done TO or ABOUT her, by entites not stated. In this case we know that these entities were a couple of universities where she was employed.

That's not EW doing the listing. It's a university bureaucrat.

Now let's go to the original claim that started this bullshit-ball rolling - by a political election opponent. Scott Brown said,

“[Elizabeth Warren] checked the box. She had an opportunity, actually, to make a decision throughout her career. When she applied to Penn and Harvard, she checked the box claiming she was Native American, and, you know, clearly she’s not.”

Yet Penn and Harvard have gone on record saying she did no such thing, that they were not told or aware of any such ethnicity, and in fact the only "boxes" she "checked that we know of were (1) at the U of Texas (where they asked for ethnicity, the choices including "Native American or Alaskan Native") where she checked only "White" (and this would be after hiring anyway)*; and (2) at Rutgers where the application asked, “Are you interested in applying for admission under the Program for Minority Group Students?" where she checked “no”. Both of these are on record.

*(source here, which also notes:

>> Lopez said professors typically do not fill out standard job applications and instead rely on curriculum vitae when applying for jobs. Once hired, professors and other employees are required to fill out a larger biographical form, which includes the minority identification question. Lopez said the school’s records indicate that Warren did not update her form after she first filled it out, probably sometime around 1981. <<​

So there is no box to check upon application anyway. There may be such a box for those applying for janitor but this is a professional position -- which echoes my experience in the same institutions; you don't sit in the lobby filling out a standard employment form, you send a résumé, a CV and letters of recommendation)

So it would appear there is indeed a liar here, and he's so full of shit his name is Brown.

Not enough? Let's see what else ol' Brown-eyes said. This directly from their debate:
“Professor Warren claimed she was a Native American, a person of color -- and as you can see, she is not.”

Let that sink in... "as you can see". Really. See my earlier post of all those Cherokee faces.
"As you can see". I guess because hey, Elvis isn't wearing a feather headdress and patting his mouth going "woo-boo-boo". Della Reese isn't shooting arrows. Winston Churchill not smoke-um peace pipe. "As we can see", they can't be Native American.

Please.

Your other point that she used such status either to facilitate her hire at any of these institutions or receive advantages on its basis, have not only no evidence, but has been in fact contradicted by those institution's hiring personnel and Warren herself via the record of her specifically declining admission on that basis (Rutgers above).

When confronted, she eventually admitted (after some denial of knowing about it at all), that she had in fact done this. She said her reason was because she wanted to "meet other people like me." When confronted with the fact that there was no traceable lineage to any kind of native American heritage in her family tree, she said that she based it upon stories told to her by her elder family members.

Now, I think you would have to be either dishonest or a complete retard to represent yourself as a minority based upon such things. I think any reasonable person would agree with that assessment too.

Wrong. She "admitted" (your term) to having disclosed heritage into to Harvard and Penn after being already hired -- which is a different animal from what she may have listed for herself with AALS. Whatever the Ivy schools did with that info we touched on above (their actions, not hers); the AALS listing format -- which is unrelated to these school administrations -- does not specify "Native American"/"Black"/"Asian" etc, but simply the one broad category of "minority". And as we touched on before, "minority" in this age of Affirmative Action in its complete form includes women.

Now as to the "claim" basis (the weasel word "claim" is noted; it was no such thing), none of those listings, forms, interviews, etc require a documentation for validation. Where any such documentation IS required is in being counted as a member of the Cherokee Nation, i.e being a citizen of that nation. This is where the "documentation" fad keeps creeping in --- but Elizabeth Warren has never claimed to be a citizen of the Cherokee Nation. So that benchmark is also bullshit.

I mean I have Irish ethnicity -- plenty of it from both parents -- but that doesn't make me a damn citizen of Ireland, nor do I claim it does.

Finally (fair warning Frank--- stop reading here) we still have that inconvenient genealogy record from 1894.
Have a look at that crap Frank keeps posting ---- cherrypicked census forms from two great-grandparents (out of 8) stating "white" -- as if a box on a census form, checked in a time when checking "Indian" would have been self-identifying with a lower caste --- is somehow a more reliable indicator than family lore. How come you're not mocking Frank for that speciousity?

Family history is suspect but a census answer form is not?
Having it both ways: Priceless.

Oh wait, that would be confirmed family lore. Her siblings already corroborated it.

Your move.

Pogo insists that Harvard and Penn listed Lizzy Cheekbones as Native American of their own volition. Further, since the great grandparents who live in Cherokee territory were white, it can only mean that Lizzy Cheekbones OTHER set of great grandparents, who neither Pogo nor Lizzy identify, must be Cherokee.

That link you keep going over lists an "O.C. Sarah Smith".
She's listed as Cherokee, not amoeba. Funny how that works.

Yours in elucidation,
Captain Buzzkill

Now back to your regularly scheduled yoga position, the ostrichasana....

"The Great Grandparents

John Houston Crawford, the great grandfather of Ms. Warren, was the son of Preston H. Crawford and Edith May "Ede" Marsh. He was born in Laclede County, Missouri, on March 26, 1858. He was found on the 1860 US Census as John H. Crauford, living in Hooker, Laclede County, Missouri, with his parents and siblings; race listed as white. He was found on the 1870 US Census living in Hooker, Laclede County, Missouri, with his father and siblings; race listed as white. He was found on the 1880 US Census as JH Crawford, living in Grant, Johnson County, Arkansas with his wife, children and a farm laboror; race listed as white. He was found on the 1900 US Census as John H. Crofford, living in Township 12, CherokeeNation, Indian Territory with his children- RENTS; race listed as white,found on the regular census schedule, not the Special Schedule for Indians. He married Sarah E. Smith on September 2, 1904 in Laclede County, Missouri. He was found on the 1910 US Census listed as JH Crowford, living in Wetumka Ward 4, Hughes County, Oklahoma with his wife, two of his children and a step-daughter; race listed as white. He died January 23, 1924 and was buried in Wetumka Cemetery in Wetumka, Hughes County, Oklahoma.

Read more: Thoughts from Polly s Granddaughter Elizabeth Warren s Ancestry - Part 1

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So Pogo, Elizabeth admits that represented herself as a native American at several different colleges that she attended. She was also listed as a minority in several different articles that featured her as a member of staff.

And you have two different things going on here you're trying to conflate hoping nobody notices, missy:

(one thing) - listed herself as "Native American"
(other thing) - was listed as a "minority"

I've color coded them so you're seeing eye dog can lead you to them.

Now we're off to English class. What do we notice that's different in the actions between these two:
1) "she listed herself"
2) "she was listed"
Who's doing the listing?

In example 1, "she" is doing her own listing ("herself" being reflexive). In example 2, some outside party is doing it. "Was listed" is passive voice. Means it was done TO or ABOUT her, by entites not stated. In this case we know that these entities were a couple of universities where she was employed.

That's not EW doing the listing. It's a university bureaucrat.

Now let's go to the original claim that started this bullshit-ball rolling - by a political election opponent. Scott Brown said,

“[Elizabeth Warren] checked the box. She had an opportunity, actually, to make a decision throughout her career. When she applied to Penn and Harvard, she checked the box claiming she was Native American, and, you know, clearly she’s not.”

Yet Penn and Harvard have gone on record saying she did no such thing, that they were not told or aware of any such ethnicity, and in fact the only "boxes" she "checked that we know of were (1) at the U of Texas (where they asked for ethnicity, the choices including "Native American or Alaskan Native") where she checked only "White" (and this would be after hiring anyway)*; and (2) at Rutgers where the application asked, “Are you interested in applying for admission under the Program for Minority Group Students?" where she checked “no”. Both of these are on record.

*(source here, which also notes:

>> Lopez said professors typically do not fill out standard job applications and instead rely on curriculum vitae when applying for jobs. Once hired, professors and other employees are required to fill out a larger biographical form, which includes the minority identification question. Lopez said the school’s records indicate that Warren did not update her form after she first filled it out, probably sometime around 1981. <<​

So there is no box to check upon application anyway. There may be such a box for those applying for janitor but this is a professional position -- which echoes my experience in the same institutions; you don't sit in the lobby filling out a standard employment form, you send a résumé, a CV and letters of recommendation)

So it would appear there is indeed a liar here, and he's so full of shit his name is Brown.

Not enough? Let's see what else ol' Brown-eyes said. This directly from their debate:
“Professor Warren claimed she was a Native American, a person of color -- and as you can see, she is not.”

Let that sink in... "as you can see". Really. See my earlier post of all those Cherokee faces.
"As you can see". I guess because hey, Elvis isn't wearing a feather headdress and patting his mouth going "woo-boo-boo". Della Reese isn't shooting arrows. Winston Churchill not smoke-um peace pipe. "As we can see", they can't be Native American.

Please.

Your other point that she used such status either to facilitate her hire at any of these institutions or receive advantages on its basis, have not only no evidence, but has been in fact contradicted by those institution's hiring personnel and Warren herself via the record of her specifically declining admission on that basis (Rutgers above).

When confronted, she eventually admitted (after some denial of knowing about it at all), that she had in fact done this. She said her reason was because she wanted to "meet other people like me." When confronted with the fact that there was no traceable lineage to any kind of native American heritage in her family tree, she said that she based it upon stories told to her by her elder family members.

Now, I think you would have to be either dishonest or a complete retard to represent yourself as a minority based upon such things. I think any reasonable person would agree with that assessment too.

Wrong. She "admitted" (your term) to having disclosed heritage into to Harvard and Penn after being already hired -- which is a different animal from what she may have listed for herself with AALS. Whatever the Ivy schools did with that info we touched on above (their actions, not hers); the AALS listing format -- which is unrelated to these school administrations -- does not specify "Native American"/"Black"/"Asian" etc, but simply the one broad category of "minority". And as we touched on before, "minority" in this age of Affirmative Action in its complete form includes women.

Now as to the "claim" basis (the weasel word "claim" is noted; it was no such thing), none of those listings, forms, interviews, etc require a documentation for validation. Where any such documentation IS required is in being counted as a member of the Cherokee Nation, i.e being a citizen of that nation. This is where the "documentation" fad keeps creeping in --- but Elizabeth Warren has never claimed to be a citizen of the Cherokee Nation. So that benchmark is also bullshit.

I mean I have Irish ethnicity -- plenty of it from both parents -- but that doesn't make me a damn citizen of Ireland, nor do I claim it does.

Finally (fair warning Frank--- stop reading here) we still have that inconvenient genealogy record from 1894.
Have a look at that crap Frank keeps posting ---- cherrypicked census forms from two great-grandparents (out of 8) stating "white" -- as if a box on a census form, checked in a time when checking "Indian" would have been self-identifying with a lower caste --- is somehow a more reliable indicator than family lore. How come you're not mocking Frank for that speciousity?

Family history is suspect but a census answer form is not?
Having it both ways: Priceless.

Oh wait, that would be confirmed family lore. Her siblings already corroborated it.

Your move.

Pogo insists that Harvard and Penn listed Lizzy Cheekbones as Native American of their own volition. Further, since the great grandparents who live in Cherokee territory were white, it can only mean that Lizzy Cheekbones OTHER set of great grandparents, who neither Pogo nor Lizzy identify, must be Cherokee.

That link you keep going over lists an "O.C. Sarah Smith".
She's listed as Cherokee, not amoeba. Funny how that works.

Yours in elucidation,
Captain Buzzkill

Now back to your regularly scheduled yoga position, the ostrichasana....

You mean Oopsies Sarah Smith?
"
Lynda Smith, the amateur genealogist who unknowingly found herself at the root of the false “Elizabeth Warren is 1/32 Cherokee” meme introduced to the media by “noted” genealogist Chris Child of the New England Historic Genealogical Society, acknowledged in an email to me this past Saturday, May 12, that her statement in a March 2006 family newsletter upon which Mr. Child based his claim of Ms. Warren’s Cherokee ancestry was made with no supporting documentation. It was, in fact, an honest mistake that Ms. Smith now acknowledges is entirely without foundation.

Ms. Smith had been quoted in a statement in a March 2006 newsletter that William J. Crawford had listed his mother, Ms. Warren’s great-great-great grandmother O.C. Sarah Smith, as a Cherokee on an 1894 Oklahoma Territory marriage license application(emphasis added). In addition, she acknowledged that the same statement in her posting at a rootsweb page about William J. Crawford was made based on no documentation.

Ms. Smith was assisted in unraveling this mystery, and coming to the realization that this statement had no basis in documentation, by Sam Morningstar, a fellow amateur genealogist who states that he is an enrolled member in a Native American tribe. Mr. Morningstar began investigating Ms. Warren’s purported Cherokee ancestry on May 1, the day that “noted” genealogist Chris Child of the New England Historic Genealogical Society was quoted saying in the Boston Herald that he had discovered a “marriage certificate” from 1894 that confirmed Ms. Warren’s claim of Native American ancestry."

Amateur Genealogist Who Backed 1 32 Cherokee Warren Now Admits Mistake - Breitbart

 

[Vigilante]

Hey OCDPogo girl, you can use this while fighting for your commie bastard and "LEZBIAN" carpet muncher Lezzy Warren... you MIGHT need it!