End Green Energy Subsidies Now!

[dblack]

The fracking issue is worrisome. It's clearly been fast-tracked as a strategic foreign policy decision, and in that sense it's been quite successful. But damn, I've been traveling a fair amount lately and looking down from a plane, you see those frackking wells everywhere. We're literally busting up the bedrock all over the country. I sure hope it's worth the long term costs. It's hard to believe there won't be some downside to it. We're all-in though, that's for damned sure.

I'm confused by that. There are a lot less fracking wells, which is actually horizontal fracking, than there were vertical fracking wells. Entire fields of vertical fracking wells are being replaced by handfuls of wells. That doesn't change your point, I just found the observation odd. Are you sure you're looking at the right thng?

Pretty sure. I don't know the actual counts, but the last three times I've flown I've seen them. All over the Rockies in Colorado, all over west Texas, and throughout the Poconos in PA. And I confirmed my sitings. I need to look into the details though. I'm not signing any petitions just yet.

 

[kaz]

[Fracking's great. Gets rid of billions of gallons of fresh water that we don't need.

Even the EPA says you are full of shit. You know a liberal is seriously full of shit when the EPA says you are full of shit. Wow. You have to reek, it's coming out of your ears. I'd wash those clothes. Maybe you should burn them.

Fracking uses tens of billions of gallons of fresh water. Please link to an EPA site which says this is not true. Thank you.

I thought it was a reference to contaminated water. The EPA has found no evidence of that.

you thought?

well, there's the problem.

its about the amount of water used .. the western portion of the country is under drought conditions .. fracking is taking part in the western portion of the country and using water that part of the country doesn't have ... get it ?

Danger !!! a thinking moron escaped the asylum. Hide !

Thanks for the explanation. I'll check you out next time I'm on the playground.

I said what I thought it meant, nice you being a dick about it and all. Thanks for that.

 

[kaz]

The fracking issue is worrisome. It's clearly been fast-tracked as a strategic foreign policy decision, and in that sense it's been quite successful. But damn, I've been traveling a fair amount lately and looking down from a plane, you see those frackking wells everywhere. We're literally busting up the bedrock all over the country. I sure hope it's worth the long term costs. It's hard to believe there won't be some downside to it. We're all-in though, that's for damned sure.

I'm confused by that. There are a lot less fracking wells, which is actually horizontal fracking, than there were vertical fracking wells. Entire fields of vertical fracking wells are being replaced by handfuls of wells. That doesn't change your point, I just found the observation odd. Are you sure you're looking at the right thng?

Pretty sure. I don't know the actual counts, but the last three times I've flown I've seen them. All over the Rockies in Colorado, all over west Texas, and throughout the Poconos in PA. And I confirmed my sitings. I need to look into the details though. I'm not signing any petitions just yet.

You could be right for sure, just asking based on what i know. My time in the energy industry was always in office buildings, not out on the fields.

 

[westwall]

Green energy has always been more expensive than traditional fuels. Which is why the industry wouldn't exist without extensive gov't subsidies. Those subsidies cost taxpayers real money and distort the market for energy. Wind power has been subsidized since the 1980s (maybe more)..
Especially now with oil prices plunging due to increased production (take that, you "we're running out of oil" milquetoasts) the difference between green and traditional energy is even more.
Time to pull the plug on this expensive waste of taxpayer resource.

No, you're wrong as usual. Instead of following your stupid fucking suggestions what we ought to do is devote massive resources into research and development of new energy technologies so that this country can lead the way into the 21st century instead of lagging behind with the energy solutions and technology of the 19th century.

I hate to break it to you but windmills have been around for oh several hundred years now and electric vehicles originated at the same time as ICE powered vehicles. Both of your technologies lost out to fossil fuel powered alternatives because the FF systems WORK BETTER and MORE EFFICIENTLY!

The morons pushing outdated tech is YOU!

Petroleum fueled internal combustion engines were 19th century innovations. If we follow your logic this must be the technological bottleneck, and there's no need to research better technologies because what we have already works. Sounds like a real spirit of innovation and enterprise. And people wonder why the Chinese and Germans are kicking our ass right now, they are poised to make the next technological leap. We are rapidly becoming a second rate economy.

So were electric vehicles. The Chinese are kicking our asses because they employ slave labor. The Germans aren't kicking our asses in anything but automobiles (those they do real well!) and if you haven't figured it out yet, they are going backward as regards power generation. They are building new coal fired plants and closing nukes.

My personal opinion is that Toyota's Fuel Cell is going to be the death knell of the EV. THAT is truly the high tech solution to the problem.

 

[billyerock1991]

Green energy has always been more expensive than traditional fuels. Which is why the industry wouldn't exist without extensive gov't subsidies. Those subsidies cost taxpayers real money and distort the market for energy. Wind power has been subsidized since the 1980s (maybe more)..
Especially now with oil prices plunging due to increased production (take that, you "we're running out of oil" milquetoasts) the difference between green and traditional energy is even more.
Time to pull the plug on this expensive waste of taxpayer resource.

as stupid as your post is I haven't paid one dime more the 8 dollars every month... when I was paying 350 to 400 dollars a month... thanks to green energy, I don't pay these high charges that you and others pay... thanks to green energies we are paying less for gas for our cars... what the hell is wrong with you... you have a couple business who ran their companies poorly and now you want to cut subsidies??? it's ok with you to let oil companies get subsidies and not green energy ???? really??? are you this moronic????

 

[JFK_USA]

I love this Ignore feature on the new software.

Because being open to new ideas is hard for you? Green energy is the future. It's sustainable and will not run out (at least for another billion or so years.)

 

[Discombobulated]

You seem confused, I never mentioned anything about oil companies. But I can certainly understand why oil companies wouldn't want people to be energy independent.

You seem unable to answer simple questions in a direct manner.
This is because you are both stupid and ill informed.

Which questions are those professor? I didn't see you ask any.

Questions are usually indicated by a special mark that looks like this: ?
Just to make this easy I'll repost them.
What does that even mean?
do you think if gov't stops subsidizing green energy then all research will just go away?
Didnt you post that oil companies themselves are investing in energy research?

Again you are confused. No, I didn't post anything about oil companies. If you have any further earth shattering questions maybe you could simply review the thread so you can figure out what you think you're talking about.

Unable to answer simple questions.
Yeah, you're stupid all right.

I'm sure you'll figure out what ever it is you want to ask eventually.

 

[dblack]

I love this Ignore feature on the new software.

Because being open to new ideas is hard for you? Green energy is the future. It's sustainable and will not run out (at least for another billion or so years.)

It's likely to. We definitely need something new. But which technologies are worth investing in, and which are a wasted effort?

The real question, in the political context, is "how do we decide?" Do we rely on individual judgement and let people make their own decisions on which technologies to support? Or do we take a vote, and force everyone down the same path?

 

[Discombobulated]

Green energy has always been more expensive than traditional fuels. Which is why the industry wouldn't exist without extensive gov't subsidies. Those subsidies cost taxpayers real money and distort the market for energy. Wind power has been subsidized since the 1980s (maybe more)..
Especially now with oil prices plunging due to increased production (take that, you "we're running out of oil" milquetoasts) the difference between green and traditional energy is even more.
Time to pull the plug on this expensive waste of taxpayer resource.

No, you're wrong as usual. Instead of following your stupid fucking suggestions what we ought to do is devote massive resources into research and development of new energy technologies so that this country can lead the way into the 21st century instead of lagging behind with the energy solutions and technology of the 19th century.

I hate to break it to you but windmills have been around for oh several hundred years now and electric vehicles originated at the same time as ICE powered vehicles. Both of your technologies lost out to fossil fuel powered alternatives because the FF systems WORK BETTER and MORE EFFICIENTLY!

The morons pushing outdated tech is YOU!

Petroleum fueled internal combustion engines were 19th century innovations. If we follow your logic this must be the technological bottleneck, and there's no need to research better technologies because what we have already works. Sounds like a real spirit of innovation and enterprise. And people wonder why the Chinese and Germans are kicking our ass right now, they are poised to make the next technological leap. We are rapidly becoming a second rate economy.

So were electric vehicles. The Chinese are kicking our asses because they employ slave labor. The Germans aren't kicking our asses in anything but automobiles (those they do real well!) and if you haven't figured it out yet, they are going backward as regards power generation. They are building new coal fired plants and closing nukes.

My personal opinion is that Toyota's Fuel Cell is going to be the death knell of the EV. THAT is truly the high tech solution to the problem.

Let's imagine the rabbi and you getting into the way back machine and being present to make commentary to historic figures about important historical events.

Westwall and Rabbi meet Copernicus: "What the heck do you mean the sun doesn't orbit the earth, that's just stupid, no one will ever believe that."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Galileo: " What planets? I don't see anything."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Descarte: " I don't know what you're talking about dude, that sounds like some hippie bullshit to me."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Newton: " Well duh, what other direction is it going to fall?"

Westwall and Rabbi meet Henry Ford: " This is an idea that will never sell. Who wants to give up horses?"

Westwall and Rabbi meet the Wright Brothers: " That thing will never fly."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Wernher von Braun: " Yeah sure, maybe you better call Buck Rogers."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Steve Jobs: " I don't get it, what will people do with their own personal computers?"

 

[westwall]

Green energy has always been more expensive than traditional fuels. Which is why the industry wouldn't exist without extensive gov't subsidies. Those subsidies cost taxpayers real money and distort the market for energy. Wind power has been subsidized since the 1980s (maybe more)..
Especially now with oil prices plunging due to increased production (take that, you "we're running out of oil" milquetoasts) the difference between green and traditional energy is even more.
Time to pull the plug on this expensive waste of taxpayer resource.

No, you're wrong as usual. Instead of following your stupid fucking suggestions what we ought to do is devote massive resources into research and development of new energy technologies so that this country can lead the way into the 21st century instead of lagging behind with the energy solutions and technology of the 19th century.

I hate to break it to you but windmills have been around for oh several hundred years now and electric vehicles originated at the same time as ICE powered vehicles. Both of your technologies lost out to fossil fuel powered alternatives because the FF systems WORK BETTER and MORE EFFICIENTLY!

The morons pushing outdated tech is YOU!

Petroleum fueled internal combustion engines were 19th century innovations. If we follow your logic this must be the technological bottleneck, and there's no need to research better technologies because what we have already works. Sounds like a real spirit of innovation and enterprise. And people wonder why the Chinese and Germans are kicking our ass right now, they are poised to make the next technological leap. We are rapidly becoming a second rate economy.

So were electric vehicles. The Chinese are kicking our asses because they employ slave labor. The Germans aren't kicking our asses in anything but automobiles (those they do real well!) and if you haven't figured it out yet, they are going backward as regards power generation. They are building new coal fired plants and closing nukes.

My personal opinion is that Toyota's Fuel Cell is going to be the death knell of the EV. THAT is truly the high tech solution to the problem.

Let's imagine the rabbi and you getting into the way back machine and being present to make commentary to historic figures about important historical events.

Westwall and Rabbi meet Copernicus: "What the heck do you mean the sun doesn't orbit the earth, that's just stupid, no one will ever believe that."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Galileo: " What planets? I don't see anything."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Descarte: " I don't know what you're talking about dude, that sounds like some hippie bullshit to me."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Newton: " Well duh, what other direction is it going to fall?"

Westwall and Rabbi meet Henry Ford: " This is an idea that will never sell. Who wants to give up horses?"

Westwall and Rabbi meet the Wright Brothers: " That thing will never fly."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Wernher von Braun: " Yeah sure, maybe you better call Buck Rogers."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Steve Jobs: " I don't get it, what will people do with their own personal computers?"

Here I am advocating for FUEL CELLS you imbecile (which are WAAAAAAYYY more high tech than the crap you're pushing) and you say I'm the anti tech person? Wake the hell up moron, it's you and yours who are the Neanderthals when it comes to high tech solutions to our very real problems.

Your juvenile insults do nothing but place you firmly in the tin foil hat wearing group of 'tards.

 

[Old Rocks]

You may be advocating fuel cells, Walleyes, but the market seems to be advocating batteries at present.

 

[Discombobulated]

No, you're wrong as usual. Instead of following your stupid fucking suggestions what we ought to do is devote massive resources into research and development of new energy technologies so that this country can lead the way into the 21st century instead of lagging behind with the energy solutions and technology of the 19th century.

I hate to break it to you but windmills have been around for oh several hundred years now and electric vehicles originated at the same time as ICE powered vehicles. Both of your technologies lost out to fossil fuel powered alternatives because the FF systems WORK BETTER and MORE EFFICIENTLY!

The morons pushing outdated tech is YOU!

Petroleum fueled internal combustion engines were 19th century innovations. If we follow your logic this must be the technological bottleneck, and there's no need to research better technologies because what we have already works. Sounds like a real spirit of innovation and enterprise. And people wonder why the Chinese and Germans are kicking our ass right now, they are poised to make the next technological leap. We are rapidly becoming a second rate economy.

So were electric vehicles. The Chinese are kicking our asses because they employ slave labor. The Germans aren't kicking our asses in anything but automobiles (those they do real well!) and if you haven't figured it out yet, they are going backward as regards power generation. They are building new coal fired plants and closing nukes.

My personal opinion is that Toyota's Fuel Cell is going to be the death knell of the EV. THAT is truly the high tech solution to the problem.

Let's imagine the rabbi and you getting into the way back machine and being present to make commentary to historic figures about important historical events.

Westwall and Rabbi meet Copernicus: "What the heck do you mean the sun doesn't orbit the earth, that's just stupid, no one will ever believe that."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Galileo: " What planets? I don't see anything."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Descarte: " I don't know what you're talking about dude, that sounds like some hippie bullshit to me."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Newton: " Well duh, what other direction is it going to fall?"

Westwall and Rabbi meet Henry Ford: " This is an idea that will never sell. Who wants to give up horses?"

Westwall and Rabbi meet the Wright Brothers: " That thing will never fly."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Wernher von Braun: " Yeah sure, maybe you better call Buck Rogers."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Steve Jobs: " I don't get it, what will people do with their own personal computers?"

Here I am advocating for FUEL CELLS you imbecile (which are WAAAAAAYYY more high tech than the crap you're pushing) and you say I'm the anti tech person? Wake the hell up moron, it's you and yours who are the Neanderthals when it comes to high tech solutions to our very real problems.

Your juvenile insults do nothing but place you firmly in the tin foil hat wearing group of 'tards.

See if you can guess why a Neanderthal doesn't pay for electricity, but in fact sells it to the power company.

 

[westwall]

You may be advocating fuel cells, Walleyes, but the market seems to be advocating batteries at present.

Only thanks to massive government support. Take that away, and the taxpayer money that somehow always seems to find its way into the pockets of the super rich you claim to hate. Toyota did the fuel cell thing all on its own. They couldn't find a decent hydrogen tank maker so they build their own which caused the price to plummet. Now others will be able to purchase those tanks from them and the whole market will increase thanks to that fact.

Batteries are old hat olfraud. They've been around for well over a century and are at the limits of their performance absent a paradigm level breakthrough.

You're just pissed that a private company did the work.

 

[westwall]

I hate to break it to you but windmills have been around for oh several hundred years now and electric vehicles originated at the same time as ICE powered vehicles. Both of your technologies lost out to fossil fuel powered alternatives because the FF systems WORK BETTER and MORE EFFICIENTLY!

The morons pushing outdated tech is YOU!

Petroleum fueled internal combustion engines were 19th century innovations. If we follow your logic this must be the technological bottleneck, and there's no need to research better technologies because what we have already works. Sounds like a real spirit of innovation and enterprise. And people wonder why the Chinese and Germans are kicking our ass right now, they are poised to make the next technological leap. We are rapidly becoming a second rate economy.

So were electric vehicles. The Chinese are kicking our asses because they employ slave labor. The Germans aren't kicking our asses in anything but automobiles (those they do real well!) and if you haven't figured it out yet, they are going backward as regards power generation. They are building new coal fired plants and closing nukes.

My personal opinion is that Toyota's Fuel Cell is going to be the death knell of the EV. THAT is truly the high tech solution to the problem.

Let's imagine the rabbi and you getting into the way back machine and being present to make commentary to historic figures about important historical events.

Westwall and Rabbi meet Copernicus: "What the heck do you mean the sun doesn't orbit the earth, that's just stupid, no one will ever believe that."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Galileo: " What planets? I don't see anything."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Descarte: " I don't know what you're talking about dude, that sounds like some hippie bullshit to me."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Newton: " Well duh, what other direction is it going to fall?"

Westwall and Rabbi meet Henry Ford: " This is an idea that will never sell. Who wants to give up horses?"

Westwall and Rabbi meet the Wright Brothers: " That thing will never fly."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Wernher von Braun: " Yeah sure, maybe you better call Buck Rogers."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Steve Jobs: " I don't get it, what will people do with their own personal computers?"

Here I am advocating for FUEL CELLS you imbecile (which are WAAAAAAYYY more high tech than the crap you're pushing) and you say I'm the anti tech person? Wake the hell up moron, it's you and yours who are the Neanderthals when it comes to high tech solutions to our very real problems.

Your juvenile insults do nothing but place you firmly in the tin foil hat wearing group of 'tards.

See if you can guess why a Neanderthal doesn't pay for electricity, but in fact sells it to the power company.

Yeah sure buddy. Here in the real world those windmills suck the big wazoo. Le's take a look at wind shall we? We've already shown how a 1.6 BILLION dollar solar plant, designed by MIT and Harvard educated super duper engineers can't be made to work as advertised, so how about them windmills you all are pushing?


How totally unsurprising that they too are nothing but hype. You clowns are good at hype, but little else.




"The electricity produced by NV Energy’s $46 million wind rebate program has fallen far short of expectations.
In a startling example, the city of Reno’s wind turbines — for which the city received more than $150,000 in rate-payer funded rebates — produced dramatically less electricity than the manufacturers of its turbines promised.
“These manufacturers, when they gave us the turbines, they said they were designed to be mounted on a parapet at this height, and that’s what we did,” said Jason Geddes, who runs the city of Reno’s renewable energy program. “But when we started getting actual wind flow patterns, we realized their claims were wrong.”

Steve Marcus
Jinxiang Lu, left, Chairman/CEO of A-Power, Senate Majority leader Harry Reid, center, and Kai Huang, deputy mayor of Shenyang, China, stand during the dedication of a new A-Power Energy Generation Systems manufacturing facility in Henderson Tuesday, October 12, 2010. The company, based in China, will produce wind turbines and LED lighting.
As first reported by the Reno Gazette-Journal, one turbine that cost the city $21,000 to install saved the city $4 on its energy bill. Overall, $416,000 worth of turbines have netted the city $2,800 in energy savings.



NV Energy windmill program generates rebates little electricity - Las Vegas Sun News

 

[Discombobulated]

Petroleum fueled internal combustion engines were 19th century innovations. If we follow your logic this must be the technological bottleneck, and there's no need to research better technologies because what we have already works. Sounds like a real spirit of innovation and enterprise. And people wonder why the Chinese and Germans are kicking our ass right now, they are poised to make the next technological leap. We are rapidly becoming a second rate economy.

So were electric vehicles. The Chinese are kicking our asses because they employ slave labor. The Germans aren't kicking our asses in anything but automobiles (those they do real well!) and if you haven't figured it out yet, they are going backward as regards power generation. They are building new coal fired plants and closing nukes.

My personal opinion is that Toyota's Fuel Cell is going to be the death knell of the EV. THAT is truly the high tech solution to the problem.

Let's imagine the rabbi and you getting into the way back machine and being present to make commentary to historic figures about important historical events.

Westwall and Rabbi meet Copernicus: "What the heck do you mean the sun doesn't orbit the earth, that's just stupid, no one will ever believe that."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Galileo: " What planets? I don't see anything."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Descarte: " I don't know what you're talking about dude, that sounds like some hippie bullshit to me."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Newton: " Well duh, what other direction is it going to fall?"

Westwall and Rabbi meet Henry Ford: " This is an idea that will never sell. Who wants to give up horses?"

Westwall and Rabbi meet the Wright Brothers: " That thing will never fly."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Wernher von Braun: " Yeah sure, maybe you better call Buck Rogers."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Steve Jobs: " I don't get it, what will people do with their own personal computers?"

Here I am advocating for FUEL CELLS you imbecile (which are WAAAAAAYYY more high tech than the crap you're pushing) and you say I'm the anti tech person? Wake the hell up moron, it's you and yours who are the Neanderthals when it comes to high tech solutions to our very real problems.

Your juvenile insults do nothing but place you firmly in the tin foil hat wearing group of 'tards.

See if you can guess why a Neanderthal doesn't pay for electricity, but in fact sells it to the power company.

Yeah sure buddy. Here in the real world those windmills suck the big wazoo. Le's take a look at wind shall we? We've already shown how a 1.6 BILLION dollar solar plant, designed by MIT and Harvard educated super duper engineers can't be made to work as advertised, so how about them windmills you all are pushing?


How totally unsurprising that they too are nothing but hype. You clowns are good at hype, but little else.




"The electricity produced by NV Energy’s $46 million wind rebate program has fallen far short of expectations.
In a startling example, the city of Reno’s wind turbines — for which the city received more than $150,000 in rate-payer funded rebates — produced dramatically less electricity than the manufacturers of its turbines promised.
“These manufacturers, when they gave us the turbines, they said they were designed to be mounted on a parapet at this height, and that’s what we did,” said Jason Geddes, who runs the city of Reno’s renewable energy program. “But when we started getting actual wind flow patterns, we realized their claims were wrong.”

Steve Marcus
Jinxiang Lu, left, Chairman/CEO of A-Power, Senate Majority leader Harry Reid, center, and Kai Huang, deputy mayor of Shenyang, China, stand during the dedication of a new A-Power Energy Generation Systems manufacturing facility in Henderson Tuesday, October 12, 2010. The company, based in China, will produce wind turbines and LED lighting.
As first reported by the Reno Gazette-Journal, one turbine that cost the city $21,000 to install saved the city $4 on its energy bill. Overall, $416,000 worth of turbines have netted the city $2,800 in energy savings.



NV Energy windmill program generates rebates little electricity - Las Vegas Sun News

Who's talking about windmills? I sell hundreds of dollars worth of electricity to the power company every year, just upgraded my system last year. Solar becomes more and more efficient all the time.
Homepage Service Organizsation

 

[The Rabbi]

I love this Ignore feature on the new software.

Because being open to new ideas is hard for you? Green energy is the future. It's sustainable and will not run out (at least for another billion or so years.)

Because ignoring ignorant fools makes my life better.
Green energy is one of the biggest public policy failures to come down the pike in a long time. It will never be competitive with fossil fuels and will bring more waste, corruption, and pollution than anything else.
Who would have foreseen that windmills would end up killing millions of birds a year?

 

[Discombobulated]

I love this Ignore feature on the new software.

Because being open to new ideas is hard for you? Green energy is the future. It's sustainable and will not run out (at least for another billion or so years.)

Because ignoring ignorant fools makes my life better.
Green energy is one of the biggest public policy failures to come down the pike in a long time. It will never be competitive with fossil fuels and will bring more waste, corruption, and pollution than anything else.
Who would have foreseen that windmills would end up killing millions of birds a year?

 

[Old Rocks]

Hey Walleyes. Unsubsidized wind, 3.7 cents a kilowatt. The best dirty coal can do is 6.6 cents a kilowatt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/b...-win-on-price-vs-conventional-fuels.html?_r=0

In Texas, Austin Energy signed a deal this spring for 20 years of output from a solar farm at less than 5 cents a kilowatt-hour. In September, the Grand River Dam Authority in Oklahoma announced its approval of a new agreement to buy power from a new wind farm expected to be completed next year. Grand River estimated the deal would save its customers roughly $50 million from the project.

And, also in Oklahoma, American Electric Power ended up tripling the amount of wind power it had originally sought after seeing how low the bids came in last year.

“Wind was on sale — it was a Blue Light Special,” said Jay Godfrey, managing director of renewable energy for the company. He noted that Oklahoma, unlike many states, did not require utilities to buy power from renewable sources.

“We were doing it because it made sense for our ratepayers,” he said.

According to a study by the investment banking firm Lazard, the cost of utility-scale solar energy is as low as 5.6 cents a kilowatt-hour, and wind is as low as 1.4 cents. In comparison, natural gas comes at 6.1 cents a kilowatt-hour on the low end and coal at 6.6 cents. Without subsidies, the firm’s analysis shows, solar costs about 7.2 cents a kilowatt-hour at the low end, with wind at 3.7 cents.

So wind now is about half the cost of dirty coal, and solar is quite close to the price of dirty coal, and will be a lot cheaper than coal by 2020. Grid scale batteries will be coming online in 2018, big time. And all of this is happening in those ultra-liberal states of Oklahoma and Texas. Get in these boys way, Walleyes, and they will run right over you.

 

[westwall]

So were electric vehicles. The Chinese are kicking our asses because they employ slave labor. The Germans aren't kicking our asses in anything but automobiles (those they do real well!) and if you haven't figured it out yet, they are going backward as regards power generation. They are building new coal fired plants and closing nukes.

My personal opinion is that Toyota's Fuel Cell is going to be the death knell of the EV. THAT is truly the high tech solution to the problem.

Let's imagine the rabbi and you getting into the way back machine and being present to make commentary to historic figures about important historical events.

Westwall and Rabbi meet Copernicus: "What the heck do you mean the sun doesn't orbit the earth, that's just stupid, no one will ever believe that."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Galileo: " What planets? I don't see anything."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Descarte: " I don't know what you're talking about dude, that sounds like some hippie bullshit to me."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Newton: " Well duh, what other direction is it going to fall?"

Westwall and Rabbi meet Henry Ford: " This is an idea that will never sell. Who wants to give up horses?"

Westwall and Rabbi meet the Wright Brothers: " That thing will never fly."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Wernher von Braun: " Yeah sure, maybe you better call Buck Rogers."

Westwall and Rabbi meet Steve Jobs: " I don't get it, what will people do with their own personal computers?"

Here I am advocating for FUEL CELLS you imbecile (which are WAAAAAAYYY more high tech than the crap you're pushing) and you say I'm the anti tech person? Wake the hell up moron, it's you and yours who are the Neanderthals when it comes to high tech solutions to our very real problems.

Your juvenile insults do nothing but place you firmly in the tin foil hat wearing group of 'tards.

See if you can guess why a Neanderthal doesn't pay for electricity, but in fact sells it to the power company.

Yeah sure buddy. Here in the real world those windmills suck the big wazoo. Le's take a look at wind shall we? We've already shown how a 1.6 BILLION dollar solar plant, designed by MIT and Harvard educated super duper engineers can't be made to work as advertised, so how about them windmills you all are pushing?


How totally unsurprising that they too are nothing but hype. You clowns are good at hype, but little else.




"The electricity produced by NV Energy’s $46 million wind rebate program has fallen far short of expectations.
In a startling example, the city of Reno’s wind turbines — for which the city received more than $150,000 in rate-payer funded rebates — produced dramatically less electricity than the manufacturers of its turbines promised.
“These manufacturers, when they gave us the turbines, they said they were designed to be mounted on a parapet at this height, and that’s what we did,” said Jason Geddes, who runs the city of Reno’s renewable energy program. “But when we started getting actual wind flow patterns, we realized their claims were wrong.”

Steve Marcus
Jinxiang Lu, left, Chairman/CEO of A-Power, Senate Majority leader Harry Reid, center, and Kai Huang, deputy mayor of Shenyang, China, stand during the dedication of a new A-Power Energy Generation Systems manufacturing facility in Henderson Tuesday, October 12, 2010. The company, based in China, will produce wind turbines and LED lighting.
As first reported by the Reno Gazette-Journal, one turbine that cost the city $21,000 to install saved the city $4 on its energy bill. Overall, $416,000 worth of turbines have netted the city $2,800 in energy savings.



NV Energy windmill program generates rebates little electricity - Las Vegas Sun News

Who's talking about windmills? I sell hundreds of dollars worth of electricity to the power company every year, just upgraded my system last year. Solar becomes more and more efficient all the time.
Homepage Service Organizsation

Sure you do.

 

[westwall]

Hey Walleyes. Unsubsidized wind, 3.7 cents a kilowatt. The best dirty coal can do is 6.6 cents a kilowatt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/b...-win-on-price-vs-conventional-fuels.html?_r=0

In Texas, Austin Energy signed a deal this spring for 20 years of output from a solar farm at less than 5 cents a kilowatt-hour. In September, the Grand River Dam Authority in Oklahoma announced its approval of a new agreement to buy power from a new wind farm expected to be completed next year. Grand River estimated the deal would save its customers roughly $50 million from the project.

And, also in Oklahoma, American Electric Power ended up tripling the amount of wind power it had originally sought after seeing how low the bids came in last year.

“Wind was on sale — it was a Blue Light Special,” said Jay Godfrey, managing director of renewable energy for the company. He noted that Oklahoma, unlike many states, did not require utilities to buy power from renewable sources.

“We were doing it because it made sense for our ratepayers,” he said.

According to a study by the investment banking firm Lazard, the cost of utility-scale solar energy is as low as 5.6 cents a kilowatt-hour, and wind is as low as 1.4 cents. In comparison, natural gas comes at 6.1 cents a kilowatt-hour on the low end and coal at 6.6 cents. Without subsidies, the firm’s analysis shows, solar costs about 7.2 cents a kilowatt-hour at the low end, with wind at 3.7 cents.

So wind now is about half the cost of dirty coal, and solar is quite close to the price of dirty coal, and will be a lot cheaper than coal by 2020. Grid scale batteries will be coming online in 2018, big time. And all of this is happening in those ultra-liberal states of Oklahoma and Texas. Get in these boys way, Walleyes, and they will run right over you.

I guess you missed this part.....

"Those prices were made possible by generous subsidies that could soon diminish or expire, but recent analyses show that even without those subsidies, alternative energies can often compete with traditional sources."

I would love to see the "study" that claims that without the "generous subsidies" they can still compete.

I have to have to hand it to you, when you go full stupid you really go for it!