Euthanasia

[rightwinger]

So being so spaced out on pain meds that all you can do is drool in a cup is OK with you?

Sorry but that's not living with dignity.

At that point you wake up each morning angry that you did not die during the night. Your day consists of existing in a drug induced haze or praying for time to pass so that you can get your next dose of morphine to end the pain.

That is not living, that is being forced to live

Forced by who? Ultimately, any person can take their life if they have the bare minimal ability. I object to them turfing that out to to the medical community.

Forced by archaic laws that are more concerned with religious opposition to a dignified end of life than the needs and desires of those who are suffering

 

[Skull Pilot]

And for the record, I think we're way too quick to euthanize animals as well.

I recognize we have that right, they are animals, here for our pleasure, and thus anyone who owns an animal has the right to off them for whatever reason. I think people take advantage of that and kill them for purely selfish reasons "she was *suffering* without recognizing the fact that animals are no affected by physical pain, discomfort, disfigurement in the same way that humans are. They do not experience the horror that we have the luxury of experiencing when faced with the less pleasant aspects of life and death.

But people are not animals, and we should never treat them as if they are.

Watch an animal bleed out internally from hemangiosarcoma and tell me you don't see terror in its eyes.

Once one of our family dogs had jumped the gate at our fence, but being where we were, we had a fence and gate topped with barbed wire. His entire gut was cut and his intestines were hanging out. He scooted to greet us when we found him within the bushes. It was a horrid experience and we did consider surgery... but the vet made it clear that the damage he had done to himself was likely irreversible. It was NOT an easy decision, pet or no, animal or other, I personally couldn't comprehend it ever being an easy decision. Most important decisions ARE NOT easy decisions.

So you would rather just give the dog pain meds instead of putting it down because of a mortal wound?

 

[Iridescence]

NOt now..

Oh wait, yes it is...Netherlands has been taken to task for authorizing euthanisation of CHILDREN who request it, without their parent's permission, and for authorizing euthanasia (and following through) for mentally ill people.

Now that we have a potential proverbial ball rolling.... Most mentally "ill" people are completely misunderstood and for the most part many are not at all ill.

Children (?) why so? Where's the resource of your information? I am certain there is more to this than merely putting children to death...

The ball is not rolling. The mentally ill are not deemed to have proper mental capacity to make a decision about ending their lives in this country.

Not only do we not facilitate their wishes, we committ them until they are not a harm to themselves and others.

I can telll you any "suicidal ideation" that demonstrates actionability (i.e. do they have a plan) is taken sersiously and warrants a consult (almost to the point of annoyance, as many people use it to malinger).

As for this country, we've actually swayed more to the side of "life". For a time, parents were allowed to refuse care for children born with Down's syndrome until they died of their co-morbidities. That is now expressly illegal (as it should be). You can look up the cases from the 60s at John Hopkins (this was happening all over the country, the cases at Hopkins were just the ones that made the news and changed policy).

I was not making such comments to support in any way euthanizing the deemed mentally "ill". To the contrary, I support better educating the masses about BOTH.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So being so spaced out on pain meds that all you can do is drool in a cup is OK with you?

Sorry but that's not living with dignity.

At that point you wake up each morning angry that you did not die during the night. Your day consists of existing in a drug induced haze or praying for time to pass so that you can get your next dose of morphine to end the pain.

That is not living, that is being forced to live

Forced by who? Ultimately, any person can take their life if they have the bare minimal ability. I object to them turfing that out to to the medical community.

And if he doesn't have the ability but asks someone else to do it?

 

[AVG-JOE]

If that other being as you put it expresses his desire to end his life and therefore his suffering we should not deny him the exercise of his rights over his own body.

THAT is the key for me... The exercise of personal choices over my own destiny.

"Are we a free people or not?"

Freedom and liberty do not extend to the freedom to kill other people. Whether at their request (very few people request euthanasia..what you're talking about is assisted suicide) or not.

As long as I get to make the decision ahead of time, assist me if I need assistance, allow a professional to take care of me if I need to be taken care of. I trust my family and friends to understand my wishes and I don't think it's asking too much of the rest of you to not prosecute when they see them carried out.

 

[koshergrl]

And that's a big mistake. You should never place that much trust in other people, especially when you're unable to speak for yourself.

 

[koshergrl]

I went through this with my mom (who has a history of depression). She is a nurse and went through a stage where she was insisting that we take on the burden of offing her if she ever became terribly ill.

I told her no. That if she saw she was going that way and wanted out, she'd better do it while she was able, because I wasn't going to live with that decision. It's not mine to make.

 

[AVG-JOE]

And this is what happens...we've removed all sense of responsibility of family from the process of death. Not only do they no longer bear the financial burden for the most part, they don't have to provide care any more, either. And the result of that is when they DO see pain, suffering, and the advent of death, they freak out..."KILL THEM OFF KILL THEM OFF OH THE HUMANITY!"

Grow up. Dying is a part of death. You don't get to hurry it along, or make the decision for other people that it's their time.

And yet the simple fact of Medicare represents a significant percentage of our population that simply wouldn't be here if not for Medicare. How many Americans meet death years sooner than they had to because they chose to smoke?

Our decisions do have consequences - both for hurrying death and for delaying death.

My life choices have been tediously average and I expect my life-span to be the same. When the end comes, if the prognosis doesn't see me able to wipe my own ass going forward, please be a pal and allow someone who cares about me to be my friend and pull the plug without fear of prosecution. They're going to have enough emotional turmoil over the decision as it is. I just hope I can look 'em in the eye and tell them it's o.k.

 

[AVG-JOE]

And taking them off life support is NOT euthanasia. Get that through your head.

Euthanasia is giving them a little push when removing artificial life support is not enough to end the madness. Same rules apply.

 

[koshergrl]

"Allow"...lol..as if you're granting them a favor.

I find it interesting that your litmus test is whether or not you can wipe your own ass.

What if you lose your arms in an accident? Should your wife opt out of life saving surgery to keep you from bleeding out based upon the fact that you won't be able to wipe your own ass when you wake up after surgery, and possibly never again after?

 

[rightwinger]

"Allow"...lol..as if you're granting them a favor.

I find it interesting that your litmus test is whether or not you can wipe your own ass.

What if you lose your arms in an accident? Should your wife opt out of life saving surgery to keep you from bleeding out based upon the fact that you won't be able to wipe your own ass when you wake up after surgery, and possibly never again after?

You are starting to lose it

 

[MikeK]

"Allow"...lol..as if you're granting them a favor.

I find it interesting that your litmus test is whether or not you can wipe your own ass.

What if you lose your arms in an accident? Should your wife opt out of life saving surgery to keep you from bleeding out based upon the fact that you won't be able to wipe your own ass when you wake up after surgery, and possibly never again after?

If I am put in such a position, and all that goes along with it, I want to go to sleep and not wake up again. No pain. No trauma. Just let me fall asleep in a clean bed, preferably in a narcotic haze, and say goodbye.

Because me without arms is not me.

 

[Iridescence]

Watch an animal bleed out internally from hemangiosarcoma and tell me you don't see terror in its eyes.

Once one of our family dogs had jumped the gate at our fence, but being where we were, we had a fence and gate topped with barbed wire. His entire gut was cut and his intestines were hanging out. He scooted to greet us when we found him within the bushes. It was a horrid experience and we did consider surgery... but the vet made it clear that the damage he had done to himself was likely irreversible. It was NOT an easy decision, pet or no, animal or other, I personally couldn't comprehend it ever being an easy decision. Most important decisions ARE NOT easy decisions.

So you would rather just give the dog pain meds instead of putting it down because of a mortal wound?

Obviously NOT. We only considered surgery until the vet said the damage he'd done was irreversible. We, within our uneducated about vet care minds, didn't comprehend that surgery would have meant continued pain and possibly severe infection. We were also young at heart and the thought of losing our pet, our beloved dog was immensely painful. Putting him down was obviously what we choose and it was obviously a necessarily difficult decision.

 

[koshergrl]

"Allow"...lol..as if you're granting them a favor.

I find it interesting that your litmus test is whether or not you can wipe your own ass.

What if you lose your arms in an accident? Should your wife opt out of life saving surgery to keep you from bleeding out based upon the fact that you won't be able to wipe your own ass when you wake up after surgery, and possibly never again after?

If I am put in such a position, and all that goes along with it, I want to go to sleep and not wake up again. No pain. No trauma. Just let me fall asleep in a clean bed, preferably in a narcotic haze, and say goodbye.

Because me without arms is not me.

Not now.

But once you lose them, it will be.

And RW...try to focus.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Euthanasia isn't allowing people who are dying a peaceful option. It's legalizing murder for convenience sake. That's the long and short of it.

Bullshit! You would allow a dog or a cat the mercy of being 'put to sleep' why wouldn't you allow a human the dignity of passing away when all hope has gone? People who claim to be kind to animals yet don't hold the same concept for human misery seem to have perverted priorities.

I am with Joe on this. No way would I want to live as a dwindling vegetable. It's no good for me and the pressure it puts on family and loved ones is something I wouldn't want to be responsible for.

You think this now. I've worked with many people who were very ill and dying and who had DNR orders. They all rescinded them when push came to shove.

I had the opposite experience when I worked for a fire department. A lot of CPR at the nursing home ends when the medic looks at the DNR. I've also seen family members visibly relieved when I stopped crushing on grandpas chest and just let him be. Only once did someone get hysterical when we stopped and she was quickly calmed by her brother when he reminded her of their fathers wishes for no tubes.

 

[Iridescence]

I suppose we've said all this to again say that to prosecute a certain somebody's death bed doctor is an absolute disrespect and awful thing to do... I also suppose we've said all this to say that many posters obviously don't feel like they have been loved well enough to know someone will be there without question to take care of them in the ways they have specified as their choice. Seems like we need more home healthcare providers and hospice volunteers to prove such thoughts wrong and to further prove that it could change the entire face of the medical industry not to mention the healthcare 'crisis'.

 

[Sky Dancer]

idiot.....

Nice and friendly response. You are the one who says you have no problem killing people.

Just responding to your nice friendly question sky....

Oh yeah, we're not friends. Oops.

 

[AVG-JOE]

And that's a big mistake. You should never place that much trust in other people, especially when you're unable to speak for yourself.

Ever driven over a bridge? Ever been a passenger on a plane? Those are activities that test my trust-o-meter - discussing my end of life choices with my family and friends is not. But maybe that's just me.

 

[syrenn]

Nice and friendly response. You are the one who says you have no problem killing people.

Just responding to your nice friendly question sky....

Oh yeah, we're not friends. Oops.

I guess you need a refresher on your question.

You work in medicine and kill your patients?

 

[koshergrl]

Sure...but just saying. It's one thing to put your trust in somebody when you're sitting right there, and you're able to make the choice to do it...(it's called throwing your heart over)....

It's another to say "hey if I'm unable to speak for myself, go ahead and kill me if you think it's best". Little bit different scenario.

And it's not just about whether or not they are capable of making an ethical decision..one assumes most of your loved ones will have your best interests at heart. It's also about the burden you place on THEM because you're too chicken shit to die as man has done since time immemorial...not on your own terms, but on the terms of whatever caprice of the world determines your method of going.