Euthanasia

[Sky Dancer]

And you sky are ok with allowing pain and suffering.

I am ok with natural dying, and palliative care, which includes pain management. I have no problem with caring for someone who looks ugly and smells bad.

My convenience is not the issue. My wish to avoid the discomfort of having to see someone die is not the issue.

The loved one is.

And what makes you think that i am not alright with the care of the ugly and smelly people... Where do i say anything about convenience or inconvenience....

This issue is about the dying and the ones in pain.

you do have a way of confusing issues sky.

Your motivation is to kill another out of aversion.

Mine is to keep someone I love pain free while they die naturally.

I have no right to interfere. You think you do. You go ahead and play god then, and leave me and my loved ones alone.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Poor sky. No you don't get it at all do you.

Poor you. You don't get it. You didn't even read the poem, did you?

How can you possibly be in medicine and not open your heart?

It is impossible to take away another beings suffering completely. There is suffering at every stage of life; being born, getting sick, changing, growing, aging and finally dying.

We can choose to open our hearts to suffering or not.

The poem I shared points to the opening of the heart to a loved one's suffering.

 

[syrenn]

I am ok with natural dying, and palliative care, which includes pain management. I have no problem with caring for someone who looks ugly and smells bad.

My convenience is not the issue. My wish to avoid the discomfort of having to see someone die is not the issue.

The loved one is.

And what makes you think that i am not alright with the care of the ugly and smelly people... Where do i say anything about convenience or inconvenience....

This issue is about the dying and the ones in pain.

you do have a way of confusing issues sky.

Your motivation is to kill another out of aversion.

Mine is to keep someone I love pain free while they die naturally.

I have no right to interfere. You think you do. You go ahead and play god then, and leave me and my loved ones alone.

Really sky? Where do i ever say my motivations is out of aversion.

LINK it.

 

[Sky Dancer]

And what makes you think that i am not alright with the care of the ugly and smelly people... Where do i say anything about convenience or inconvenience....

This issue is about the dying and the ones in pain.

you do have a way of confusing issues sky.

Your motivation is to kill another out of aversion.

Mine is to keep someone I love pain free while they die naturally.

I have no right to interfere. You think you do. You go ahead and play god then, and leave me and my loved ones alone.

Really sky? Where do i ever say my motivations is out of aversion.

LINK it.

You have stated that you "can't stand" to see someone suffering so you'd have to kill them. That is aversion. Killing is aversion.

You stated that my friend on death row, who is innocent, should die. You said that out of aversion. You don't even know this person, and you'd kill him.

How many patients did you kill because you thought it was up to you to "put them out of their misery"?

You tell me I'm cruel because I gave my 15 year old loving care while he was dying?

My vet taught me how to monitor my dog's symptoms, provide pain medication and administer fluids and other treatments.

Very few pet owners are willing to take such an intensive hands-on approach to treatment or take the time to continually monitor their pet and stay in touch with the veterinary team the way my wife and I did. We did this out of love. He died naturally and pain free.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Kathryn Marocchino, Ph.D., Founder of The Nikki Hospice Foundation for Pets in Vallejo, CA, says with proper care and guidance, pet hospice provides a peaceful end for an animal and euthanasia is rarely necessary.

While my dog was dying, I provided loving physical, emotional and spiritual care for him. I consulted with my vet, nurses, and other people who provide hospice care for animals.

Charlie died a good death. I was his friend and family for 15 years.

 

[syrenn]

Your motivation is to kill another out of aversion.

Mine is to keep someone I love pain free while they die naturally.

I have no right to interfere. You think you do. You go ahead and play god then, and leave me and my loved ones alone.

Really sky? Where do i ever say my motivations is out of aversion.

LINK it.

You have stated that you "can't stand" to see someone suffering so you'd have to kill them. That is aversion. Killing is aversion.

You stated that my friend on death row, who is innocent, should die. You said that out of aversion. You don't even know this person, and you'd kill him.

How many patients did you kill because you thought it was up to you to "put them out of their misery"?

You tell me I'm cruel because I gave my 15 year old loving care while he was dying?

My vet taught me how to monitor my dog's symptoms, provide pain medication and administer fluids and other treatments.

Very few pet owners are willing to take such an intensive hands-on approach to treatment or take the time to continually monitor their pet and stay in touch with the veterinary team the way my wife and I did.

no link? I didn't think so.


If your friend is on death row... yes.. i want him dead. So does the state. I have NO issue with him being put down... or anyone else on death row for that matter. I would have no problem pushing the drugs into them either.

I see you are very guilty about your dog sky.... sad that he suffered so under orders by your lama. I hate tell you sky.. what you did for your dog.. i do on a regular basis. for kittens who are not mine....And when warranted... they get put down. The last kitten... poor thing was gasping for breath... but i am sure you would have been fine letting him gasp his last breath...even if it took a week.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Really sky? Where do i ever say my motivations is out of aversion.

LINK it.

You have stated that you "can't stand" to see someone suffering so you'd have to kill them. That is aversion. Killing is aversion.

You stated that my friend on death row, who is innocent, should die. You said that out of aversion. You don't even know this person, and you'd kill him.

How many patients did you kill because you thought it was up to you to "put them out of their misery"?

You tell me I'm cruel because I gave my 15 year old loving care while he was dying?

My vet taught me how to monitor my dog's symptoms, provide pain medication and administer fluids and other treatments.

Very few pet owners are willing to take such an intensive hands-on approach to treatment or take the time to continually monitor their pet and stay in touch with the veterinary team the way my wife and I did.

no link? I didn't think so.


If your friend is on death row... yes.. i want him dead. So does the state. I have NO issue with him being put down... or anyone else on death row for that matter. I would have no problem pushing the drugs into them either.

I see you are very guilty about your dog sky.... sad that he suffered so under orders by your lama. I hate tell you sky.. what you did for your dog.. i do on a regular basis. for kittens who are not mine....And when warranted... they get put down. The last kitten... poor thing was gasping for breath... but i am sure you would have been fine letting him gasp his last breath...even if it took a week.

No, that is not true. You think I'm cruel to animlas. I'm not. I give love to many beings.

I just don't kill them. I have ZERO guilt about my dog. None. I did right by him.

You would be lucky to know Jarvis Masters, my friend on Death Row. But you're so closed minded, you never will.

You would kill the innocent just because they'd been convicted. Sight unseen and with no knowledge of the circumstances you would kill my friend.

It makes me sick.

 

[NGSamson]

I am ok with natural dying, and palliative care, which includes pain management. I have no problem with caring for someone who looks ugly and smells bad.

My convenience is not the issue. My wish to avoid the discomfort of having to see someone die is not the issue.

The loved one is.

And what makes you think that i am not alright with the care of the ugly and smelly people... Where do i say anything about convenience or inconvenience....

This issue is about the dying and the ones in pain.

you do have a way of confusing issues sky.

Your motivation is to kill another out of aversion.

Mine is to keep someone I love pain free while they die naturally.

I have no right to interfere. You think you do. You go ahead and play god then, and leave me and my loved ones alone.

Not trying to be a smart ass, but this will sound bad. If the person you were speaking of was sick of managing the pain, and wanted to wear three extra morphine patches, and take a hand full of pills would you stop them even though there was nothing for them to look forward to but weeks or months of pain and suffering ? Wouldn't it be better for that person who is going to kill them selves and be found sprawled out on the floor by a loved one by a loved one to receive instruction, and assistance so they can die with dignity, and maybe softly surrounded by loved ones ?

 

[MikeK]

Oh please. I say "God" and "soul" in a post and that automatically removes my objectivity on this matter?

I admittedly am influenced by Freud's (et al) thinking on the matter of usage in ordinary speech. But if I happen to be far off base in this example, I apologize.

Of all the people on this thread, I am one of a handful of people whose thoughts and opinions are going to translate into actions. I'll have a DEA number if I finish school. So, you can dismiss my opinions because you deem them as "subjective". Here's some objective fact for you: I will follow the law and I will do what I deem to be right, regardless of what you think about it.

If your will is to follow the law it doesn't get more secular than that. But I suggest what you deem to be right today and what you might think is right after years of practice could be quite different (as per Dr. Jack Kevorkian's comments on his own change of attitude).

Thanks for informing me that humans are animals. You are right, I totally rejected that concept.

It is an extremely relevant concept in this discussion.

I can assure you, if anyone grieves more over the death of a pet then a human, their priorities are seriously out of whack.

I believe that depends on certain factors, such as the specific pet and the specific human.

My friend Lou has a Golden Retriever whom he dearly loves. But Lou, who is an essentially gentle soul and a genuinely nice person, is married to a Harpy. If I were married to that woman and could not free myself from her I would plot to kill her for the insurance money. If I were Lou there is no doubt in my mind whose death I would mourn and whose I would celebrate. So on this matter we strongly disagree.

I will also say that if I were a physician attending Dick Cheney who was dying of the most painful kind of cancer I would not euthanize him -- even if it were legal. In fact I would do my best to keep him alive and conscious for as long as I could.

And before we go there, I grew up on a farm. I had to euthanize a lot of livestock growing up. I will never make my son take part in that. I don't blame my family for having me in the process. I just now know that it's not something a young person should be tasked with doing.

Do you mean euthanize as in merciful dispatch to end a creature's suffering? Or do you mean slaughter?

I would not hesitate to euthanize a suffering animal but slaughtering is quite another thing.

 

[syrenn]

You have stated that you "can't stand" to see someone suffering so you'd have to kill them. That is aversion. Killing is aversion.

You stated that my friend on death row, who is innocent, should die. You said that out of aversion. You don't even know this person, and you'd kill him.

How many patients did you kill because you thought it was up to you to "put them out of their misery"?

You tell me I'm cruel because I gave my 15 year old loving care while he was dying?

My vet taught me how to monitor my dog's symptoms, provide pain medication and administer fluids and other treatments.

Very few pet owners are willing to take such an intensive hands-on approach to treatment or take the time to continually monitor their pet and stay in touch with the veterinary team the way my wife and I did.

no link? I didn't think so.


If your friend is on death row... yes.. i want him dead. So does the state. I have NO issue with him being put down... or anyone else on death row for that matter. I would have no problem pushing the drugs into them either.

I see you are very guilty about your dog sky.... sad that he suffered so under orders by your lama. I hate tell you sky.. what you did for your dog.. i do on a regular basis. for kittens who are not mine....And when warranted... they get put down. The last kitten... poor thing was gasping for breath... but i am sure you would have been fine letting him gasp his last breath...even if it took a week.

No, that is not true. You think I'm cruel to animlas. I'm not. I give love to many beings.

I just don't kill them. I have ZERO guilt about my dog. None. I did right by him.

You would be lucky to know Jarvis Masters, my friend on Death Row. But you're so closed minded, you never will.

You would kill the innocent just because they'd been convicted. You would do so out of hatred and vengeance.

I don't kill them either... i put them out of their pain and suffering. You know... euthanize them.


I dont care what his problem is or care to know him. I dont care that he is your friend. I dont give a rats ass that he is a bhuddist who writes books now. He is on death row. I am all for killing every one them on death row. Its called death row for a reason. Murdering them.... Putting them down like the animals they are.

So when you quote me on this... make sure you use the whole quote so it is in context.

 

[syrenn]

And what makes you think that i am not alright with the care of the ugly and smelly people... Where do i say anything about convenience or inconvenience....

This issue is about the dying and the ones in pain.

you do have a way of confusing issues sky.

Your motivation is to kill another out of aversion.

Mine is to keep someone I love pain free while they die naturally.

I have no right to interfere. You think you do. You go ahead and play god then, and leave me and my loved ones alone.

Not trying to be a smart ass, but this will sound bad. If the person you were speaking of was sick of managing the pain, and wanted to wear three extra morphine patches, and take a hand full of pills would you stop them even though there was nothing for them to look forward to but weeks or months of pain and suffering ? Wouldn't it be better for that person who is going to kill them selves and be found sprawled out on the floor by a loved one by a loved one to receive instruction, and assistance so they can die with dignity, and maybe softly surrounded by loved ones ?

She doesn't get that part.

 

[Sky Dancer]

no link? I didn't think so.


If your friend is on death row... yes.. i want him dead. So does the state. I have NO issue with him being put down... or anyone else on death row for that matter. I would have no problem pushing the drugs into them either.

I see you are very guilty about your dog sky.... sad that he suffered so under orders by your lama. I hate tell you sky.. what you did for your dog.. i do on a regular basis. for kittens who are not mine....And when warranted... they get put down. The last kitten... poor thing was gasping for breath... but i am sure you would have been fine letting him gasp his last breath...even if it took a week.

No, that is not true. You think I'm cruel to animlas. I'm not. I give love to many beings.

I just don't kill them. I have ZERO guilt about my dog. None. I did right by him.

You would be lucky to know Jarvis Masters, my friend on Death Row. But you're so closed minded, you never will.

You would kill the innocent just because they'd been convicted. You would do so out of hatred and vengeance.

I don't kill them either... i put them out of their pain and suffering. You know... euthanize them.


I dont care what his problem is or care to know him. I dont care that he is your friend. I dont give a rats ass that he is a bhuddist who writes books now. He is on death row. I am all for killing every one them on death row. Its called death row for a reason. Murdering them.... Putting them down like the animals they are.

So when you quote me on this... make sure you use the whole quote so it is in context.

What's your method? Suffocation? Drowning? Shooting them?

Jarvis Masters is not guilty. You disgust me for wishing him dead. Your post completely reveals the aversion I was referring to. Capital punishment is wrong because some innocent people are executed.

"Murder them. Put them down like the animals they are." Murder animals, the intent is clear.

Jarvis is a loved one of mine, a dear friend, and you would kill him. You disgust me.

 

[syrenn]

No, that is not true. You think I'm cruel to animlas. I'm not. I give love to many beings.

I just don't kill them. I have ZERO guilt about my dog. None. I did right by him.

You would be lucky to know Jarvis Masters, my friend on Death Row. But you're so closed minded, you never will.

You would kill the innocent just because they'd been convicted. You would do so out of hatred and vengeance.

I don't kill them either... i put them out of their pain and suffering. You know... euthanize them.


I dont care what his problem is or care to know him. I dont care that he is your friend. I dont give a rats ass that he is a bhuddist who writes books now. He is on death row. I am all for killing every one them on death row. Its called death row for a reason. Murdering them.... Putting them down like the animals they are.

So when you quote me on this... make sure you use the whole quote so it is in context.

What's your method? Suffocation? Drowning? Shooting them?

Jarvis Masters is not guilty. You disgust me for wishing him dead. Your post completely reveals the aversion I was referring to.

"Murder them. Put them down like the animals they are."

This is a loved one of mine and you would kill him. You disgust me.

I have no idea who he is sky...and i dont care who loves him. I am very sure everyone on death row has someone who loves them. It does not change the fact...he is on death row...i want him dead. It is personal to you since you love him. I don't know him...and don't give a shit about him. He is nothing personal to me.... except as a drain on my taxes.

For the death row animals... if they murdered.. i would have the same method applied to them.

 

[geauxtohell]

At that point you wake up each morning angry that you did not die during the night. Your day consists of existing in a drug induced haze or praying for time to pass so that you can get your next dose of morphine to end the pain.

That is not living, that is being forced to live

Forced by who? Ultimately, any person can take their life if they have the bare minimal ability. I object to them turfing that out to to the medical community.

Forced by archaic laws that are more concerned with religious opposition to a dignified end of life than the needs and desires of those who are suffering

That might be true, but you are still putting the responsibility of ending life on people who most likely don't want it.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I don't kill them either... i put them out of their pain and suffering. You know... euthanize them.


I dont care what his problem is or care to know him. I dont care that he is your friend. I dont give a rats ass that he is a bhuddist who writes books now. He is on death row. I am all for killing every one them on death row. Its called death row for a reason. Murdering them.... Putting them down like the animals they are.

So when you quote me on this... make sure you use the whole quote so it is in context.

What's your method? Suffocation? Drowning? Shooting them?

Jarvis Masters is not guilty. You disgust me for wishing him dead. Your post completely reveals the aversion I was referring to.

"Murder them. Put them down like the animals they are."

This is a loved one of mine and you would kill him. You disgust me.

I have no idea who he is sky...and i dont care who loves him. I am very sure everyone on death row has someone who loves them. It does not change the fact...he is on death row...i want him dead. It is personal to you since you love him. I don't know him...and don't give a shit about him. He is nothing personal to me.... except as a drain on my taxes.

For the death row animals... if they murdered.. i would have the same method applied to them.

Fine. I'm done talking to you. Bye. You would kill an innocent man and an innocent animal. You would kill the beings I love.

 

[geauxtohell]

Now that we have a potential proverbial ball rolling.... Most mentally "ill" people are completely misunderstood and for the most part many are not at all ill.

Children (?) why so? Where's the resource of your information? I am certain there is more to this than merely putting children to death...

The ball is not rolling. The mentally ill are not deemed to have proper mental capacity to make a decision about ending their lives in this country.

Not only do we not facilitate their wishes, we committ them until they are not a harm to themselves and others.

I can telll you any "suicidal ideation" that demonstrates actionability (i.e. do they have a plan) is taken sersiously and warrants a consult (almost to the point of annoyance, as many people use it to malinger).

As for this country, we've actually swayed more to the side of "life". For a time, parents were allowed to refuse care for children born with Down's syndrome until they died of their co-morbidities. That is now expressly illegal (as it should be). You can look up the cases from the 60s at John Hopkins (this was happening all over the country, the cases at Hopkins were just the ones that made the news and changed policy).

I was not making such comments to support in any way euthanizing the deemed mentally "ill". To the contrary, I support better educating the masses about BOTH.

I didn't mean to imply you were. I meant to state we go out of our way to prevent the suicidal from harming themselves.

 

[Sky Dancer]

The ball is not rolling. The mentally ill are not deemed to have proper mental capacity to make a decision about ending their lives in this country.

Not only do we not facilitate their wishes, we committ them until they are not a harm to themselves and others.

I can telll you any "suicidal ideation" that demonstrates actionability (i.e. do they have a plan) is taken sersiously and warrants a consult (almost to the point of annoyance, as many people use it to malinger).

As for this country, we've actually swayed more to the side of "life". For a time, parents were allowed to refuse care for children born with Down's syndrome until they died of their co-morbidities. That is now expressly illegal (as it should be). You can look up the cases from the 60s at John Hopkins (this was happening all over the country, the cases at Hopkins were just the ones that made the news and changed policy).

I was not making such comments to support in any way euthanizing the deemed mentally "ill". To the contrary, I support better educating the masses about BOTH.

I didn't mean to imply you were. I meant to state we go out of our way to prevent the suicidal from harming themselves.

If Syrenn knew someone was suicidal she'd probably lend them her gun.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I was not making such comments to support in any way euthanizing the deemed mentally "ill". To the contrary, I support better educating the masses about BOTH.

I didn't mean to imply you were. I meant to state we go out of our way to prevent the suicidal from harming themselves.

If Syrenn knew someone was suicidal she'd probably lend them her gun.

If a person wants to die why would you force them to live?

http://biopsychiatry.com/misc/suicide.html

 

[syrenn]

The ball is not rolling. The mentally ill are not deemed to have proper mental capacity to make a decision about ending their lives in this country.

Not only do we not facilitate their wishes, we committ them until they are not a harm to themselves and others.

I can telll you any "suicidal ideation" that demonstrates actionability (i.e. do they have a plan) is taken sersiously and warrants a consult (almost to the point of annoyance, as many people use it to malinger).

As for this country, we've actually swayed more to the side of "life". For a time, parents were allowed to refuse care for children born with Down's syndrome until they died of their co-morbidities. That is now expressly illegal (as it should be). You can look up the cases from the 60s at John Hopkins (this was happening all over the country, the cases at Hopkins were just the ones that made the news and changed policy).

I was not making such comments to support in any way euthanizing the deemed mentally "ill". To the contrary, I support better educating the masses about BOTH.

I didn't mean to imply you were. I meant to state we go out of our way to prevent the suicidal from harming themselves.

That is a different issue. If someone wants to end their lives... IMO it should be their choice and decision.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I didn't mean to imply you were. I meant to state we go out of our way to prevent the suicidal from harming themselves.

If Syrenn knew someone was suicidal she'd probably lend them her gun.

If a person wants to die why would you force them to live?

There is a difference between crisis counseling someone who is suicidal and "forcing them to live".

I'm just saying that respect for life is low on Syrenn's list. She is into executing, and taking the lives of those who are terminally ill.

I trust she would lend a gun to someone who was suicidal rather than try and help them.