Explain to us Libs, what is a living wage?

[francoHFW]

STILL the equivalent of the min. wage in 1968, or $11.00.

 

[JRK]

why would it raise it a dime more?

Because most private businesses will not accept a loss in profitability. What they are losing in increased payroll expenses they have to make up for somewhere else. They charge more for the product, they cut back on hours, the have one person do the job that two people were doing or a combination of all of those things. But they have to maintain their profitablity. If they don't investors get discouraged in them and they lose even more money.

Your taking to a person who has estimated projects over 1 billion dollars

Have to call bullshit there. Whatever company is putting you in charge of billion dollar projects with the piss poor communication skills you have is in trouble.


You don't use roads? You don't enjoy the benefits of being protected by our military? Why kind of moronic argument is that. Taxes are collected from everybody and are spent for the benefit of EVERYBODY. Not just businesses.



If that's your argument, then you really can't fix that can you. If as you say, business always pass costs on to customers there isn't much way to get them to pay for anything is there? It's not like you can add a tax on their tax. If they just pass on to customers than raising wages to a living wage is pointless as well. That'll just get pased on too. Fortuantely your premise is bullshit so we don't really have to worry about it.

In return for those services WE grant these business, Mandating a minimum amount of pay to use these TAX PAYER funded items is not some evil liberal idea
Where you are so un educated in this matter would take hours to explain

Yes it is. There is nothing more liberal than absolving people of personal responsibility which mandating a living wage does in fact do.

THE CONSUMER PAYS FOR IT ALL, in return the corporations should have enough oversight to pay a living wage
And what you miss most of all here is they do not care. They will do an exersize just like i just did, adjust there cost and move on

What you miss most of all is you think corporations pay taxes, PEOPLE PAY THOSE TAXES, corporations just collect them

We desperatly need a lower corporate tax and a real living wage in this country

You argument carries no water. You believe business owns it all and the wealth I supply the US govt

As you noted above one of a businesses many expenses are taxes. They, like all of their other costs, determine what they can charge for a good or service. If one or some of their costs go up, labor, taxes, whatever, something else has to give if they want to maintain the same profitability as they did before their increased expenses. It might be passsing the expense on to the customer, but that will only work for a while as their will reach a point where the more and more customers refuse to pay the increased costs. Even if just their payroll expense increases due to a living wage they can still make cuts out of just payroll, They can cut hours, they can eliminate positions, they can elimintate benefts. Your living wage pay increase is not going to occur in a vacuum. You can't increase wages and expect every other business variable to stay the same. That is lunacy. That is why, AT BEST, your living wage increase will accomplish nothing or actually put the peple you wanted to help in an even worse position.

Get it through your entitlement adled, whiny little brain. YOUR EMPLOYER DOES NOT OWE YOU YOUR BASIC NEEDS. You owe it to yourself to do what it takes to achieve that.

moron?
liar?
whiney?
lanacy?

dude just because we see things different does not call for you to attack me, slander my name, and decide what is the truth about me and what is not

you idiot corporations do not pay taxes, people do.

alll you have done is give the conservative agenda a black eye with your childish name calling and slandering a good mans name

I have no reason to lie. Dude I have tried to teach you things you know nothing about, in return you act as though this is some kind of life and death debate that will cost you one penny
Your clueless as to what this really about, your cluless as to how business really is run, and there is no doubt in my mind after that childish rebuttle you just made a fool of your self sharing with the world your no older than 14

You win
we will keep the welfare number @ 600 billion and watch go up as these companies you claim owe the tax paye nothingr, keep collecting our wealth to pay there taxes and sit by and watch us pay our own also
this is just a discussion dude, its all it was. you think corporations are free to do as they please and offer nothing in return for the use of our wealth.
I am ok with that. I am not ok with your slander

 

[Foxfyre]

oh boy

of the 14 people who work in burger king
i estimate the bare composite rate would be 11.00 an hour
7 avg 14
7 avg 8 an hour

you change those who make 8 to 12, lets use 7 people
that mean the bare goes to
7 avg 14
7 avg 12
bare goes to 13 an hour
added cost per hour is 14 an hour

so without taking 2 minutes to do this exersize your claim is the 30 meals burger king sells in one hour would go up about 0.50 per meal would cause what exactly?

Causes people to change their behavior. People react when their financial situation changes. The second problem with your faux 'exercise' is the assumption that it would only raise the cost of a meal .50 cents. For the umpteenth time it's going to be pretty hard to make your point that uses scenarios that aren't grounded in reality. Your division of labor wages there isn't very realistic. It isn't going to be split 50/50 between high and low. Your avg. fast food chain has probably 1-2 mangers. 3-4 supervisors and maybe a dozen employees. Your figures amount to a 16% increase in payroll expenses. You're looney tunes if you think a company is going to accept a 16% decrease in profitability. There going to make it up somewhere. They might charge 16% more on everything they sell. That means a $4 meal turns to probaly a $4.69. If you think no one is going to re-think their lunch purchases as a result, you're an idiot. That is invariably going to lead to fewer customers. Or they are going to have adverse effect on the very people you claim to want to help. Instead of paying 7 people 12 an hour to come out the same on payroll expense they may say we can live with 4 people at $12/hr. Are you seeing the unintended consequences yet of your idiotic benevolence? Your benevolence causes people to lose their jobs. Or perhaps they cut back on hours for people to make up the difference.

The point is in some form or other the system is going to react to the mandated change in wages. About the last thing any private business will accept is a loss in profitability. They will cut jobs, hours, raise prices, whatever they have to do to maintain the same profitability they had before your benevolent wage increase. And the sad part is because they react they way they do the hourly pay increase is going to be nullified by a loss in hours or a loss in jobs all together.

Your idea fails on every front JRK. It does't accomplish what you think it will logistically. It also fails morally as making your employer responsible for your basic needs is not that their moral responsibility.

why would it raise it a dime more?
idiotic? its the way business sets there price for there product or service
why would you cut hours back? you are clueless as to how business works, OT is the only cost that they would look at and that effects the bottom line
Your taking to a person who has estimated projects over 1 billion dollars
Okay, it is not the employers responsibility. Then it is not mine to provide the tax-funded hi-way they use to delivar there goods
It is not my place to provide the monies to defend this country to protect there wealth, all of it
You want me to go on?
As a conservative the govt has its place, the only reason we have welfare is because the govt allows business to us these items we pay for, WE PAY FOR IT ALL. When I estimate a job there is a line item for all taxes, it is added to the bottom line
In return for those services WE grant these business, Mandating a minimum amount of pay to use these TAX PAYER funded items is not some evil liberal idea
Where you are so un educated in this matter would take hours to explain

THE CONSUMER PAYS FOR IT ALL, in return the corporations should have enough oversight to pay a living wage
And what you miss most of all here is they do not care. They will do an exersize just like i just did, adjust there cost and move on

What you miss most of all is you think corporations pay taxes, PEOPLE PAY THOSE TAXES, corporations just collect them

We desperatly need a lower corporate tax and a real living wage in this country

You argument carries no water. You believe business owns it all and the wealth I supply the US govt

It is a constitutional responsibility for the government to provide the common defense and it can assess whatever fees or taxes are necessary to do that.

You resent some of what the government considers to be the common defense? I do too.

We maybe if you opened your mind to the big picture, you can see that we, the tax payers, also resent the government taking our money that we prepared ourselves and worked to earn and giving that money to somebody who didn't bother to do that just so that other person can have a 'living wage' whatever that is.

 

[JRK]

No matter how one feels about this issue, a question for you bern 80
How does a corporation pay its taxes? where does the welath come from that payse ther taxes?

How does a corporation set its price in which it selld its goods?

How do we set the level in which a person becomes qualified for wellfare?

Bern-80 you have publicly slanderd my name over nothing, lets ee how smart you are for all of us Bern. you stated I was lair
Where have I lied Bern 80 link to it or shut up and go away

 

[JRK]

Causes people to change their behavior. People react when their financial situation changes. The second problem with your faux 'exercise' is the assumption that it would only raise the cost of a meal .50 cents. For the umpteenth time it's going to be pretty hard to make your point that uses scenarios that aren't grounded in reality. Your division of labor wages there isn't very realistic. It isn't going to be split 50/50 between high and low. Your avg. fast food chain has probably 1-2 mangers. 3-4 supervisors and maybe a dozen employees. Your figures amount to a 16% increase in payroll expenses. You're looney tunes if you think a company is going to accept a 16% decrease in profitability. There going to make it up somewhere. They might charge 16% more on everything they sell. That means a $4 meal turns to probaly a $4.69. If you think no one is going to re-think their lunch purchases as a result, you're an idiot. That is invariably going to lead to fewer customers. Or they are going to have adverse effect on the very people you claim to want to help. Instead of paying 7 people 12 an hour to come out the same on payroll expense they may say we can live with 4 people at $12/hr. Are you seeing the unintended consequences yet of your idiotic benevolence? Your benevolence causes people to lose their jobs. Or perhaps they cut back on hours for people to make up the difference.

The point is in some form or other the system is going to react to the mandated change in wages. About the last thing any private business will accept is a loss in profitability. They will cut jobs, hours, raise prices, whatever they have to do to maintain the same profitability they had before your benevolent wage increase. And the sad part is because they react they way they do the hourly pay increase is going to be nullified by a loss in hours or a loss in jobs all together.

Your idea fails on every front JRK. It does't accomplish what you think it will logistically. It also fails morally as making your employer responsible for your basic needs is not that their moral responsibility.

why would it raise it a dime more?
idiotic? its the way business sets there price for there product or service
why would you cut hours back? you are clueless as to how business works, OT is the only cost that they would look at and that effects the bottom line
Your taking to a person who has estimated projects over 1 billion dollars
Okay, it is not the employers responsibility. Then it is not mine to provide the tax-funded hi-way they use to delivar there goods
It is not my place to provide the monies to defend this country to protect there wealth, all of it
You want me to go on?
As a conservative the govt has its place, the only reason we have welfare is because the govt allows business to us these items we pay for, WE PAY FOR IT ALL. When I estimate a job there is a line item for all taxes, it is added to the bottom line
In return for those services WE grant these business, Mandating a minimum amount of pay to use these TAX PAYER funded items is not some evil liberal idea
Where you are so un educated in this matter would take hours to explain

THE CONSUMER PAYS FOR IT ALL, in return the corporations should have enough oversight to pay a living wage
And what you miss most of all here is they do not care. They will do an exersize just like i just did, adjust there cost and move on

What you miss most of all is you think corporations pay taxes, PEOPLE PAY THOSE TAXES, corporations just collect them

We desperatly need a lower corporate tax and a real living wage in this country

You argument carries no water. You believe business owns it all and the wealth I supply the US govt

It is a constitutional responsibility for the government to provide the common defense and it can assess whatever fees or taxes are necessary to do that.

You resent some of what the government considers to be the common defense? I do too.

We maybe if you opened your mind to the big picture, you can see that we, the tax payers, also resent the government taking our money that we prepared ourselves and worked to earn and giving that money to somebody who didn't bother to do that just so that other person can have a 'living wage' whatever that is.

I have never stated we need to be taking care of people who are lazy. There are a number of people who are doing the right things every day that are not making enough wealth to go beyond poverty
thats it, nothing else

 

[JRK]

Bern 80 we are still waiting. your being called out
how does a corporation pay its taxes Bern?
how do we establish the poverty level?
How does a coproration set its price for it service/product?
post a link to my lie bern, you called me a liar
were are waiting

 

[Bern80]

No matter how one feels about this issue, a question for you bern 80
How does a corporation pay its taxes? where does the welath come from that payse ther taxes?

How does a corporation set its price in which it selld its goods?

How do we set the level in which a person becomes qualified for wellfare?

Bern-80 you have publicly slanderd my name over nothing, lets ee how smart you are for all of us Bern. you stated I was lair
Where have I lied Bern 80 link to it or shut up and go away

Now I have to directly answer question from you, but you don't from me? Not gonna fly bud. You want courtesy from me, you'll get it when you extend it first.

Way way back when I asked you why is it your employers responsibility more so than your own, to provide for your basic needs? When you answer that I will more than happily respond to your questions. Deal?

 

[JRK]

No matter how one feels about this issue, a question for you bern 80
How does a corporation pay its taxes? where does the welath come from that payse ther taxes?

How does a corporation set its price in which it selld its goods?

How do we set the level in which a person becomes qualified for wellfare?

Bern-80 you have publicly slanderd my name over nothing, lets ee how smart you are for all of us Bern. you stated I was lair
Where have I lied Bern 80 link to it or shut up and go away

Now I have to directly answer question from you, but you don't from me? Not gonna fly bud. You want courtesy from me, you'll get it when you extend it first.

Way way back when I asked you why is it your employers responsibility more so than your own, to provide for your basic needs? When you answer that I will more than happily respond to your questions. Deal?

that is what we thought bud
I have never called you a liar
a moron

I answered the question, you cant see it
I have answered it every time and your so focused on anger you cannot see it
You have been called out
we are still waiting

 

[Foxfyre]

why would it raise it a dime more?
idiotic? its the way business sets there price for there product or service
why would you cut hours back? you are clueless as to how business works, OT is the only cost that they would look at and that effects the bottom line
Your taking to a person who has estimated projects over 1 billion dollars
Okay, it is not the employers responsibility. Then it is not mine to provide the tax-funded hi-way they use to delivar there goods
It is not my place to provide the monies to defend this country to protect there wealth, all of it
You want me to go on?
As a conservative the govt has its place, the only reason we have welfare is because the govt allows business to us these items we pay for, WE PAY FOR IT ALL. When I estimate a job there is a line item for all taxes, it is added to the bottom line
In return for those services WE grant these business, Mandating a minimum amount of pay to use these TAX PAYER funded items is not some evil liberal idea
Where you are so un educated in this matter would take hours to explain

THE CONSUMER PAYS FOR IT ALL, in return the corporations should have enough oversight to pay a living wage
And what you miss most of all here is they do not care. They will do an exersize just like i just did, adjust there cost and move on

What you miss most of all is you think corporations pay taxes, PEOPLE PAY THOSE TAXES, corporations just collect them

We desperatly need a lower corporate tax and a real living wage in this country

You argument carries no water. You believe business owns it all and the wealth I supply the US govt

It is a constitutional responsibility for the government to provide the common defense and it can assess whatever fees or taxes are necessary to do that.

You resent some of what the government considers to be the common defense? I do too.

We maybe if you opened your mind to the big picture, you can see that we, the tax payers, also resent the government taking our money that we prepared ourselves and worked to earn and giving that money to somebody who didn't bother to do that just so that other person can have a 'living wage' whatever that is.

I have never stated we need to be taking care of people who are lazy. There are a number of people who are doing the right things every day that are not making enough wealth to go beyond poverty
thats it, nothing else

The 'right thing' is what is subjective here though. You do the 'right thing' when you do what is necessary to make your labor marketable at a price that you can live on. Those who didn't do that didn't exactly do the 'right thing' did they? The person who majors in art history on Mom & Dad's dime and doesn't bother to acquire any marketable skills of any kind better have an in with a college, university, or major gallery that needs an 'expert' because he or she is otherwise going to be very very limited in what s/he can earn out there. When you make choices that severely limit what you are qualified to do, that is your problem. Or should be.

The government should not make it my problem.

 

[JRK]

Bern 80 we r still waiting
how does a corporation pay its taxes?
thats an easy one

 

[JRK]

It is a constitutional responsibility for the government to provide the common defense and it can assess whatever fees or taxes are necessary to do that.

You resent some of what the government considers to be the common defense? I do too.

We maybe if you opened your mind to the big picture, you can see that we, the tax payers, also resent the government taking our money that we prepared ourselves and worked to earn and giving that money to somebody who didn't bother to do that just so that other person can have a 'living wage' whatever that is.

I have never stated we need to be taking care of people who are lazy. There are a number of people who are doing the right things every day that are not making enough wealth to go beyond poverty
thats it, nothing else

The 'right thing' is what is subjective here though. You do the 'right thing' when you do what is necessary to make your labor marketable at a price that you can live on. Those who didn't do that didn't exactly do the 'right thing' did they? The person who majors in art history on Mom & Dad's dime and doesn't bother to acquire any marketable skills of any kind better have an in with a college, university, or major gallery that needs an 'expert' because he or she is otherwise going to be very very limited in what s/he can earn out there. When you make choices that severely limit what you are qualified to do, that is your problem. Or should be.

The government should not make it my problem.

If we go thru 600 billion in wealth in 2010 to pay for welfare, they made it our problrm

 

[JRK]

bern 80
we R still waiting
you called me a liar
How does corporations pay there taxes
simple question you cannot answer

 

[kwc57]

Bern 80 we r still waiting
how does a corporation pay its taxes?
thats an easy one

I think you owe him an answer before he will answer yours.

You know, I don't think anyone wants to make this personal, but when you've gone back and forth over this long of a period of time, certain things start to reveal themselves. The claims you make just don't stand up to scrutiny. People who do billion dollar projects know how to string a coherent sentence together with sentence structure, grammar, punctuation and capital letters. It makes your sentences understandable and readable. Honestly, I have to read your posts 3 or 4 times even to get what I think you mean to say. That alone makes us question your claims of knowing and having experience in the running of a business and human resources. It just doesn't show. The stuff you are advocating is so far out in left field that it can't be taken seriously. Add to that your claim that you are a staunch conservative when you have we conservatives scratching our collective heads over your liberal social engineering scheme. Things just don't add up which leads people to question your truthfullness and character. You keep saying that none of us understand what you are teaching us. We fully understand what you are saying and realize that it is utopian crap with no basis in reality. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

 

[Foxfyre]

Bern 80 we r still waiting
how does a corporation pay its taxes?
thats an easy one

I think you owe him an answer before he will answer yours.

You know, I don't think anyone wants to make this personal, but when you've gone back and forth over this long of a period of time, certain things start to reveal themselves. The claims you make just don't stand up to scrutiny. People who do billion dollar projects know how to string a coherent sentence together with sentence structure, grammar, punctuation and capital letters. It makes your sentences understandable and readable. Honestly, I have to read your posts 3 or 4 times even to get what I think you mean to say. That alone makes us question your claims of knowing and having experience in the running of a business and human resources. It just doesn't show. The stuff you are advocating is so far out in left field that it can't be taken seriously. Add to that your claim that you are a staunch conservative when you have we conservatives scratching our collective heads over your liberal social engineering scheme. Things just don't add up which leads people to question your truthfullness and character. You keep saying that none of us understand what you are teaching us. We fully understand what you are saying and realize that it is utopian crap with no basis in reality. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

And even if he IS actually running a business, which I agree does appear very suspect when reading what he is saying on this thread, the fact that his stated experience, if it is the real deal, is so different from all the rest of us who are or have run businesses does suggest an anomaly so pronounced it is hardly useful even for anecdotal evidence.

 

[Bern80]

No matter how one feels about this issue, a question for you bern 80
How does a corporation pay its taxes? where does the welath come from that payse ther taxes?

How does a corporation set its price in which it selld its goods?

How do we set the level in which a person becomes qualified for wellfare?

Bern-80 you have publicly slanderd my name over nothing, lets ee how smart you are for all of us Bern. you stated I was lair
Where have I lied Bern 80 link to it or shut up and go away

Now I have to directly answer question from you, but you don't from me? Not gonna fly bud. You want courtesy from me, you'll get it when you extend it first.

Way way back when I asked you why is it your employers responsibility more so than your own, to provide for your basic needs? When you answer that I will more than happily respond to your questions. Deal?

that is what we thought bud
I have never called you a liar
a moron

I answered the question, you cant see it
I have answered it every time and your so focused on anger you cannot see it
You have been called out
we are still waiting

There's no 'we' here pal. No one is on your side, here. Certainly no conservative is given this particular anti-conservative stance of yours. And no you never did answer the question. The closest you came was to say it was not a relevant question which is no answer at all. And I'm calling you a liar because it is simply very difficult for me to believe that anyone with your mentality and horrible writing skills, (half the problem here is I can't understand what the fuck you're saying half the time) would be entrusted by someone else to handle billion dollar projects.

 

[JRK]

Now I have to directly answer question from you, but you don't from me? Not gonna fly bud. You want courtesy from me, you'll get it when you extend it first.

Way way back when I asked you why is it your employers responsibility more so than your own, to provide for your basic needs? When you answer that I will more than happily respond to your questions. Deal?

that is what we thought bud
I have never called you a liar
a moron

I answered the question, you cant see it
I have answered it every time and your so focused on anger you cannot see it
You have been called out
we are still waiting

There's no 'we' here pal. No one is on your side, here. Certainly no conservative is given this particular anti-conservative stance of yours. And no you never did answer the question. The closest you came was to say it was not a relevant question which is no answer at all. And I'm calling you a liar because it is simply very difficult for me to believe that anyone with your mentality and horrible writing skills, (half the problem here is I can't understand what the fuck your saying half the time) would be entrusted by someone else to handle billion dollar projects.

you called me a fucking liar again
I ask you a simple question, U are so hung uo on being who an what you are you cannot even see what the answer is
now your calling me stupid
slander is an item that opens up a whole new world of possibilities
keep it up bern 80

 

[JRK]

Bern 80 we r still waiting
how does a corporation pay its taxes?
thats an easy one

I think you owe him an answer before he will answer yours.

You know, I don't think anyone wants to make this personal, but when you've gone back and forth over this long of a period of time, certain things start to reveal themselves. The claims you make just don't stand up to scrutiny. People who do billion dollar projects know how to string a coherent sentence together with sentence structure, grammar, punctuation and capital letters. It makes your sentences understandable and readable. Honestly, I have to read your posts 3 or 4 times even to get what I think you mean to say. That alone makes us question your claims of knowing and having experience in the running of a business and human resources. It just doesn't show. The stuff you are advocating is so far out in left field that it can't be taken seriously. Add to that your claim that you are a staunch conservative when you have we conservatives scratching our collective heads over your liberal social engineering scheme. Things just don't add up which leads people to question your truthfullness and character. You keep saying that none of us understand what you are teaching us. We fully understand what you are saying and realize that it is utopian crap with no basis in reality. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

I stated I estimated billion dollar projects
As far as my grammer goes and anyone taking me seriously, thats an issue that is yours, not mine
calling people a liar is the lowest form if scum that walks the face os the earth
I earned where I am in life, those who trust me do not need you or bern 80s approval

to be honest, I have grown very bored with this thread I started a long time ago

I am going tell you the same thing I tell evryone who thinks it is there place in life to attack others
Ignore me
I do not care, I have nom use for you

as far as being a conservative? I am the only one in this thread who has offerd a solution to our growing problem with wel fare and poverty

Instead of attacking people, where is your solution?

 

[JRK]

Now I have to directly answer question from you, but you don't from me? Not gonna fly bud. You want courtesy from me, you'll get it when you extend it first.

Way way back when I asked you why is it your employers responsibility more so than your own, to provide for your basic needs? When you answer that I will more than happily respond to your questions. Deal?

that is what we thought bud
I have never called you a liar
a moron

I answered the question, you cant see it
I have answered it every time and your so focused on anger you cannot see it
You have been called out
we are still waiting

There's no 'we' here pal. No one is on your side, here. Certainly no conservative is given this particular anti-conservative stance of yours. And no you never did answer the question. The closest you came was to say it was not a relevant question which is no answer at all. And I'm calling you a liar because it is simply very difficult for me to believe that anyone with your mentality and horrible writing skills, (half the problem here is I can't understand what the fuck your saying half the time) would be entrusted by someone else to handle billion dollar projects.

Pal I do not care the 3 of you are not on my side
whats your resolution to this problem? call me a liar?
What you cannot grasp is the answer is in the question. How do corporations pay there taxes? where does that wealth come from?

 

[JRK]

Bern 80 we r still waiting
how does a corporation pay its taxes?
thats an easy one

I think you owe him an answer before he will answer yours.

You know, I don't think anyone wants to make this personal, but when you've gone back and forth over this long of a period of time, certain things start to reveal themselves. The claims you make just don't stand up to scrutiny. People who do billion dollar projects know how to string a coherent sentence together with sentence structure, grammar, punctuation and capital letters. It makes your sentences understandable and readable. Honestly, I have to read your posts 3 or 4 times even to get what I think you mean to say. That alone makes us question your claims of knowing and having experience in the running of a business and human resources. It just doesn't show. The stuff you are advocating is so far out in left field that it can't be taken seriously. Add to that your claim that you are a staunch conservative when you have we conservatives scratching our collective heads over your liberal social engineering scheme. Things just don't add up which leads people to question your truthfullness and character. You keep saying that none of us understand what you are teaching us. We fully understand what you are saying and realize that it is utopian crap with no basis in reality. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

And even if he IS actually running a business, which I agree does appear very suspect when reading what he is saying on this thread, the fact that his stated experience, if it is the real deal, is so different from all the rest of us who are or have run businesses does suggest an anomaly so pronounced it is hardly useful even for anecdotal evidence.

Is this all you have left? attack the messanger?
The debate has never been about me and what it is do for a living

If any of you dis agree with my presentation then dis agree with it. Stating that it is not the employers resp. to pay a living wage only puts the burden on the tax payer
I keep asking one simple question to bern 80 and in return I get called a liar and stupid
you know wo that reminds me of?
Micheal Moore
every lib I know when they get to a place they cannot get too resorts to attacking the messanger so the message gets lost

 

[JRK]

We have a serious problem in this coutry that is costing the tax payer in all reality with medicare and medicad over 1 trillion dollars
I offer a free market solution and in the end get called a liar, stupid among other things
Thats ok, Its not me who ahs to sleep with thats who an what I am. What amazes me is no-one has put forth any other solutions
Bern-80 I ask you a smple question that instead of answering you called me a liar and stupid. Bill Moyer does the same when he gets backed into a corner

Let me answer it for you. The consumer pays all taxes. The burden of the poor is laid at the feet of the tax payer. Coroporate taxes on profit go up, the price of there product/service goes up

I have stated this a number of times and yet you seem to think thats ok, yet instead of explaining too all of us why, you call people a liar an stupid

Well what does that make bern? in the real world bern that makes you a defendant