Explain to us Libs, what is a living wage?

[JRK]

My thick fucking skull?
My thick fucking skull?
first it was I cannot spell, now its I am thick?
Bern I gave up on you along time ago. your so hung up that this issue has something to do with corporations.
There is no way to discuss this with a person who thinks that. They have no place in it. The consumer pays for it all and the only people this wage hurts is you and I
The only cause and effect it has on them is they have reached a place where they cannot compete with a company who pays a 15% rate when there paying a 25

Yes, your thick fucking skull. You STILL don't get it. You don't listen. It's that simple. I, while younger than you, have the ability to evaluate whether or not a proposed solution to a problem is a) ethical and b) actually going to work. Your's won't. For someone who claims to want to solve a problem I would figure that might be something you'd want to know.

Aren't you the one that told me corporations have to be part of the solution? You are the one making about corporations and what they have to do, not me.

Dude you have no issue with the govt mandating a wage that is so low we the tax payer have to kick in monies to subsidize it. Your so hung up on it your now questioning how smart I am
I have said this 20 times to your Bern. Its not changing except for our debt. Why you are so angry about this makes no sense to me, you got everything you want out of this

The government never should have mandated such a wage in the first place. So yes I do have a problem with it. Again you aren't listening. I get the whole not liking to subsidize people on welfare. YOUR SOLUTION WILL NOT FIX THAT PROBLEM. Anyone with rudimentary understanding of basic economics knows this. How about moving on to solutions that might actually work?

Bern Joes Garbage service make's a profit because of the people who get up, take care of his equipment and picks up the garbage every-day
Paying that person 8.00 an hour is a wage the federal govt set, not Joes Garbage service

Stop making shit up. Garbage men don't make min. wage. They're paid more because it's a job most people won't do. See? Scarcity effecting the cost of labor again. Why is it so damn hard for you to accept that earning enough to live on is YOUR responsibility and no one elses?

Bern 100s of thousands of men an women gave there live so I could form my own opinion and speak it freely, why does that scare you so much and make you so angry?
You claim I have no understanding of basic economics (this is not the first time) what do you base that on? that we dis agree?
Make shit up?
You want me to use Joes framing service?
Joes dump truck service?

Exactly ho did we set 7.75 an hour as an entry level wage? or 9-10 an hour as a labor
intensive wage Bern?

Bern the low end wage is based on the minimum wage. I do not understand what your so pissed about lower taxes and higher wages

 

[JRK]

STILL $11/hour, the equivalent of 1968's min wage. Do you want a diagram, Pub dupes? LOL Bring back demand...after the recovery, unfortunately....

"Bring back demand".

Funny you say that. Because you, the left wing, has praised the importation of tens of millions of ilegal aliens, aka, SURPLUS WORKERS.

In a supply and demand model, the more workers we have, the less demand employers have for labor. Thus, wages go down.

If we import workers + export jobs, we lose.

So, you lefties need to begin demanding the border be sealed, and increased deportation be continuted. That way, the supply of labor goes down, demand goes up, and wages will recover.

You in for that?

Seal it up, go back to allowing only those who do it right in

 

[JRK]

Bern there are just so many jobs in this country that pay more than 25,000 a year
I keep telling you somone has to take the garbage out and you keep ignoring that fact

Your lib side just showed it self with the cutting in defense spending. The constitution is very clear about defending this country
any-way we are getting further apart. I guess what your saying is cut everything and cut some things totally out

in 2007 we needed 163 billion dollars eliminated to have a balanced budget. That is a hint as to where the real peoblem is
It is with Obama at the trillion dollar level.

And you think the solution for trillion dollar deficits is raising the minimum wage? I suggest we get rid of Obama and those in Congress who have run up those trillion dollar deficits. They sure as hell didn't spend all that money or even more than a tiny fraction of it on folks earning less than $11/hour.

Ok...I have a deal...Let's raise the min wage to $10 and hour. Under one condition. That every federal employee except enlisted military take a 25% pay cut and they have to contribute 25% of their health insurance premiums and 25% of their pension. This includes ALL holders of federal elected office as well as Presidential appointees.
The way I see is ,accounting for federal wages and benefits, federal employees are overpaid.

Simply raising the retirement age and forcing them to invest in there own retirement (no
legacy cost on the tax payer) would save billions. I would not include the military in that program.
you have hit the nail on the head there. I also (Bern missed this one) realized my idea would not work on the state and local wages without including there legacy cost in there wages
Raising the minimum wage by cutting corporate taxes as well as additional measures for small business would break your local and state govt without adding there legacy cost to the bottom line
Bacon Davis is a guiding light.
Doing a Bacon Davis job that wage is suppose to have X amount for all of those legacy cost, this is why a laborer would make 11-13 on a Davis Bacon job (thats an estimate based on my last job managing one in 1999)
It has all of those legacy cost rolled up into a living wage. The employee can decide what he or she invests in

By the way some-one stated I had thought the minimum wage idea I have would rid the country of its trillion dollar yearly deficit, I have never claimed that. Riding us of Obama will only do that

 

[editec]

It might surprise most of you to learn that increased wages are the least important aspect of inflation.


I know it surprised me when I read it.


But as labor is typically the last group to get hold of those NEW fiat dollars, it does sort of make sense.

 

[JRK]

Ah, but you forget that many on the bottom rung of the pay scale will always be poor because they don't know how to be otherwise. And many don't want to know how to be otherwise. Many think poverty is a virtue.

I cannot argue that. I think in the south there are million though that make 9-11 an hour just because that is all there is
I guess I have never condoned giving any-one anything. I have no been home for 22 years for more than 8 months at a time because thats what I have to do to make the money I need to make to achieve my goals. Still not there.

Poverty is a culture that needs changing, but as you say some do not want changing is a reality

And yet here you are. Proposing that we give these people more money for no other reason than they need it. If you expect nothing of people, which is basically what you're saying when you mandate a living wage, you will get nothing from people. There are all kinds of people for whom good enough is good enough and they will never do more if nothing more is ever required of them. You are simply exacerbating that problem by ensuring whatever menial job they get out of high school will be enough to take care of them. Not because it's what their worth, but because you essentially said their life is not their responsibility.

BERN Stop it. Your smarter than that. No-one has said any-thing about giving one penny away

You are a water truck driver for company X and go to a Bacon Davis job
that $6.00 an hour raise you get will be because thats what the wage pays. You decide not to work at either wage, your gone

The lower tier wage is set by the federal govt's minimum wage, nothing else. The market will put in 10% profit with a 25% corporate tax with a 7.75 an hour wage or a 15% tax with a higher wage. Thats how the market works. When the govt puts them in a place they cannot compete with over seas, thats when you an issue
Just as they do in a bacon davis event (which in some events calls for a lower wage) they adjust there price to offset wages and taxes

 

[JRK]

The libs dont understand if they raise the min wage or have 15.00 an hour everything else raises and they will still be in the same position and just making more but also paying more for the goods.

Please cite historical evidence to justify your position.

Love bear missed the 500 threads that discussed a 40% corporate tax rate cut as a trade off. Also what got me on this idea was Australia is doing just that an making it work. Of course there dollar is 4 pennies different than ours (yes being a smart but) and there corporate tax rate is lower than ours

Simply put there making it work, why cannot we?
Some think we pay people 8.00 an hour because thats what there worth and that minimum wage has nothing to do with it

 

[francoHFW]

Implementing NHC will do more than anything to get people off welfare, medicaid/care.

When NHC bankrupts us, we won't be able to afford welfare, Medicaid and Medicare.

Of course, all evidence points to NHC SAVING money, 45k deaths, 750k bankuptcies, and our global competitiveness, but go with bought off RW BS, (Rush, Murdoch, Rev. Moon, Breitbart), dittohead...

 

[Bern80]

I cannot argue that. I think in the south there are million though that make 9-11 an hour just because that is all there is
I guess I have never condoned giving any-one anything. I have no been home for 22 years for more than 8 months at a time because thats what I have to do to make the money I need to make to achieve my goals. Still not there.

Poverty is a culture that needs changing, but as you say some do not want changing is a reality

And yet here you are. Proposing that we give these people more money for no other reason than they need it. If you expect nothing of people, which is basically what you're saying when you mandate a living wage, you will get nothing from people. There are all kinds of people for whom good enough is good enough and they will never do more if nothing more is ever required of them. You are simply exacerbating that problem by ensuring whatever menial job they get out of high school will be enough to take care of them. Not because it's what their worth, but because you essentially said their life is not their responsibility.

BERN Stop it. Your smarter than that. No-one has said any-thing about giving one penny away

You are a water truck driver for company X and go to a Bacon Davis job
that $6.00 an hour raise you get will be because thats what the wage pays. You decide not to work at either wage, your gone

The lower tier wage is set by the federal govt's minimum wage, nothing else. The market will put in 10% profit with a 25% corporate tax with a 7.75 an hour wage or a 15% tax with a higher wage. Thats how the market works. When the govt puts them in a place they cannot compete with over seas, thats when you an issue
Just as they do in a bacon davis event (which in some events calls for a lower wage) they adjust there price to offset wages and taxes

How exactly is making $6/hr one day and making $12/hr the next NOT simply giving away an extra $6/hr? Nothing more was required of the employee and the value of what he does sure as hell didn't double over night. You simply used government to force an employer to give away, YES, GIVE AWAY more money because you deem it's the employer's responsibility to pay everyone enough to live on. When something is given to someone with nothing expected in return for that something, that would be the definition of a give away.

 

[Bern80]

The libs dont understand if they raise the min wage or have 15.00 an hour everything else raises and they will still be in the same position and just making more but also paying more for the goods.

Please cite historical evidence to justify your position.

Love bear missed the 500 threads that discussed a 40% corporate tax rate cut as a trade off. Also what got me on this idea was Australia is doing just that an making it work. Of course there dollar is 4 pennies different than ours (yes being a smart but) and there corporate tax rate is lower than ours

Simply put there making it work, why cannot we?
Some think we pay people 8.00 an hour because thats what there worth and that minimum wage has nothing to do with it

And interestingly the same products sold here cost about 25% more there. Interesting that about how much you want the min wage to go up don't you think?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Implementing NHC will do more than anything to get people off welfare, medicaid/care.

When NHC bankrupts us, we won't be able to afford welfare, Medicaid and Medicare.

Of course, all evidence points to NHC SAVING money, 45k deaths, 750k bankuptcies, and our global competitiveness, but go with bought off RW BS, (Rush, Murdoch, Rev. Moon, Breitbart), dittohead...

Yeah, more government control always means savings.

 

[JRK]

And yet here you are. Proposing that we give these people more money for no other reason than they need it. If you expect nothing of people, which is basically what you're saying when you mandate a living wage, you will get nothing from people. There are all kinds of people for whom good enough is good enough and they will never do more if nothing more is ever required of them. You are simply exacerbating that problem by ensuring whatever menial job they get out of high school will be enough to take care of them. Not because it's what their worth, but because you essentially said their life is not their responsibility.

BERN Stop it. Your smarter than that. No-one has said any-thing about giving one penny away

You are a water truck driver for company X and go to a Bacon Davis job
that $6.00 an hour raise you get will be because thats what the wage pays. You decide not to work at either wage, your gone

The lower tier wage is set by the federal govt's minimum wage, nothing else. The market will put in 10% profit with a 25% corporate tax with a 7.75 an hour wage or a 15% tax with a higher wage. Thats how the market works. When the govt puts them in a place they cannot compete with over seas, thats when you an issue
Just as they do in a bacon davis event (which in some events calls for a lower wage) they adjust there price to offset wages and taxes

How exactly is making $6/hr one day and making $12/hr the next NOT simply giving away an extra $6/hr? Nothing more was required of the employee and the value of what he does sure as hell didn't double over night. You simply used government to force an employer to give away, YES, GIVE AWAY more money because you deem it's the employer's responsibility to pay everyone enough to live on. When something is given to someone with nothing expected in return for that something, that would be the definition of a give away.

Nothing is required of the employee?
If you say so
where I work I get up @ 0330
@ work 0530
Do the things I am expected to do and more
Leave @ 1730

Thats a full days work, that every-one does
The low end wage is set by the federal govt, not demand. Also this tranisiton would be over a 2-3 year period, just like the last one was
This would allow the companies to adapt as well as the employee

Bern I have no idea what you do for a living, in fact I suspect nothing the way you feel about the human part of this scenario
You are ruthless dude. At no time in this thread have I stated ant-body get anything for free. Accountablity and job demand would only go up

 

[JRK]

Bacon Davis also has no slot for a helper, (Apprentice) Bern maybe we have a minimum wage for straight labor of 10.00-11 and from there it goes to 13-15 for one that would actually be using tools of the trade
A shovel is not a tool of the trade
Laying sod
etc....

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

BERN Stop it. Your smarter than that. No-one has said any-thing about giving one penny away

You are a water truck driver for company X and go to a Bacon Davis job
that $6.00 an hour raise you get will be because thats what the wage pays. You decide not to work at either wage, your gone

The lower tier wage is set by the federal govt's minimum wage, nothing else. The market will put in 10% profit with a 25% corporate tax with a 7.75 an hour wage or a 15% tax with a higher wage. Thats how the market works. When the govt puts them in a place they cannot compete with over seas, thats when you an issue
Just as they do in a bacon davis event (which in some events calls for a lower wage) they adjust there price to offset wages and taxes

How exactly is making $6/hr one day and making $12/hr the next NOT simply giving away an extra $6/hr? Nothing more was required of the employee and the value of what he does sure as hell didn't double over night. You simply used government to force an employer to give away, YES, GIVE AWAY more money because you deem it's the employer's responsibility to pay everyone enough to live on. When something is given to someone with nothing expected in return for that something, that would be the definition of a give away.

Nothing is required of the employee?
If you say so
where I work I get up @ 0330
@ work 0530
Do the things I am expected to do and more
Leave @ 1730

Thats a full days work, that every-one does
The low end wage is set by the federal govt, not demand. Also this tranisiton would be over a 2-3 year period, just like the last one was
This would allow the companies to adapt as well as the employee

Bern I have no idea what you do for a living, in fact I suspect nothing the way you feel about the human part of this scenario
You are ruthless dude. At no time in this thread have I stated ant-body get anything for free. Accountablity and job demand would only go up

The low end wage is set by the federal govt, not demand.

All you need to do is increase the demand for your labor and your wage increases over the government set minimum.

 

[francoHFW]

STILL $11/hour, the equivalent of 1968's min wage. Do you want a diagram, Pub dupes? LOL Bring back demand...after the recovery, unfortunately....

"Bring back demand".

Funny you say that. Because you, the left wing, has praised the importation of tens of millions of ilegal aliens, aka, SURPLUS WORKERS.

In a supply and demand model, the more workers we have, the less demand employers have for labor. Thus, wages go down.

If we import workers + export jobs, we lose.

So, you lefties need to begin demanding the border be sealed, and increased deportation be continuted. That way, the supply of labor goes down, demand goes up, and wages will recover.

You in for that?

-What a pile of Pubcrap. A Berlin Wall would cost hundreds of billions of dollars, be totally un-American and wouldn't work! But great BS for the Pub Dupe hater/morons. Dems also like their immigration bills CONSTITUTIONAL and that DO SOMETHING beside harass ALL HISPANICS.

The only thing that will work is enforcing laws against employers, having a work/SS ID card with computer chip- pass the GD Schumer/Graham Bill. And yes, those espousing throwing all illegals out (67% pay taxes, 35% own homes, 94% of males WORK- PEW) are MORONS...

Time to figure out elitist Pubs don't actually WANT to fix this, just get elected on your worst instincts...

God bless Australia and NZ (and every modern country but us- it's amazing no dupes has screamed "Move there" or it's not the same: population, southern hemisphere, communists, our diversity (we HAVE to screw minorities!!) LOL yadda yadda- Horse patoot!!

 

[Bern80]

Bern 100s of thousands of men an women gave there live so I could form my own opinion and speak it freely, why does that scare you so much and make you so angry?

It angers me that we are getting dumber and more prone to feelings of entitlement as a country. Even you, someone who proclaims to be conservative has now jumped on the entitlement band wagon.

You claim I have no understanding of basic economics (this is not the first time) what do you base that on? that we dis agree?

No. Because you seem to think your pay increase occurs in a vacuum and nothing else in the market, not demand for labor, or the cost of goods and services, are going to react to that. Those that do understand basic economics know otherwise.

Bern the low end wage is based on the minimum wage. I do not understand what your so pissed about lower taxes and higher wages

For the most part, no it's not. I think you'll find there are actually pretty few jobs out there that pay only the min wage. They may not pay what you deem a living wage, but they do pay above the minimum wage. You're making a mountain out of mole hill here. Let's say the min wage went away altogethr. The wages of those making above min wage but lower than your living wage aren't going to change and even if those actually making the min wage do have their wages cut, it's going to be by very little.

 

[JRK]

When NHC bankrupts us, we won't be able to afford welfare, Medicaid and Medicare.

Of course, all evidence points to NHC SAVING money, 45k deaths, 750k bankuptcies, and our global competitiveness, but go with bought off RW BS, (Rush, Murdoch, Rev. Moon, Breitbart), dittohead...

Yeah, more government control always means savings.

My idea is to get govt out of our lives, not add more. The reason we have so much cost for medicare, medicade as well as welfare is people cannot make enough wealth to get out of that rut
Some think the jobs that are in a place now in where hiring is non existent can add another 20 million

al people have to do is try harder, according to them. I have 30 yers in my industry and here I sit making 420 a week from the state of Texas after going 17 years without this happening

 

[Bern80]

STILL $11/hour, the equivalent of 1968's min wage. Do you want a diagram, Pub dupes? LOL Bring back demand...after the recovery, unfortunately....

"Bring back demand".

Funny you say that. Because you, the left wing, has praised the importation of tens of millions of ilegal aliens, aka, SURPLUS WORKERS.

In a supply and demand model, the more workers we have, the less demand employers have for labor. Thus, wages go down.

If we import workers + export jobs, we lose.

So, you lefties need to begin demanding the border be sealed, and increased deportation be continuted. That way, the supply of labor goes down, demand goes up, and wages will recover.

You in for that?

-What a pile of Pubcrap. A Berlin Wall would cost hundreds of billions of dollars, be totally un-American and wouldn't work! But great BS for the Pub Dupe hater/morons. Dems also like their immigration bills CONSTITUTIONAL and that DO SOMETHING beside harass ALL HISPANICS.

The only thing that will work is enforcing laws against employers, having a work/SS ID card with computer chip- pass the GD Schumer/Graham Bill. And yes, those espousing throwing all illegals out (67% pay taxes, 35% own homes, 94% of males WORK- PEW) are MORONS...

Time to figure out elitist Pubs don't actually WANT to fix this, just get elected on your worst instincts...

God bless Australia and NZ (and every modern country but us- it's amazing no dupes has screamed "Move there" or it's not the same: population, southern hemisphere, communists, our diversity (we HAVE to screw minorities!!) LOL yadda yadda- Horse patoot!!

Still waiting for you to ask the avg. Australian consumer whether they would rather purchase things at our price or theres.

 

[francoHFW]

When NHC bankrupts us, we won't be able to afford welfare, Medicaid and Medicare.

Of course, all evidence points to NHC SAVING money, 45k deaths, 750k bankuptcies, and our global competitiveness, but go with bought off RW BS, (Rush, Murdoch, Rev. Moon, Breitbart), dittohead...

Yeah, more government control always means savings.

Thanks for the Pub mythology, but our "system" costs 18% of GDP, goes up 15% every year, SUQS! Gov't regulation WILL help, like in every othermodern country...so ignorant and brainwashed...talking points are just BS.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Of course, all evidence points to NHC SAVING money, 45k deaths, 750k bankuptcies, and our global competitiveness, but go with bought off RW BS, (Rush, Murdoch, Rev. Moon, Breitbart), dittohead...

Yeah, more government control always means savings.

My idea is to get govt out of our lives, not add more. The reason we have so much cost for medicare, medicade as well as welfare is people cannot make enough wealth to get out of that rut
Some think the jobs that are in a place now in where hiring is non existent can add another 20 million

al people have to do is try harder, according to them. I have 30 yers in my industry and here I sit making 420 a week from the state of Texas after going 17 years without this happening

Mandating a higher minimum will raise employment or lower employment?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Of course, all evidence points to NHC SAVING money, 45k deaths, 750k bankuptcies, and our global competitiveness, but go with bought off RW BS, (Rush, Murdoch, Rev. Moon, Breitbart), dittohead...

Yeah, more government control always means savings.

Thanks for the Pub mythology, but our "system" costs 18% of GDP, goes up 15% every year, SUQS! Gov't regulation WILL help, like in every othermodern country...so ignorant and brainwashed...talking points are just BS.

I guess long waiting periods and denial of treatment could reduce costs.
Of course when government gives away free medical care, demand increases.