Explain to us Libs, what is a living wage?

[francoHFW]

ALL jobs are worth $11/hour, Elitist (you wish) dittohead. Once we get past this obscenity of a Pub boom and bust economy...

 

[kwc57]

A. For the trillionth time, the poor pay as much %wise to the gov't as the rich, dittoheads.
B. STILL $11, equivalent of 1968 min wage. Bring back demand, Myopic (racist?) tools of the greedy rich.

You're still full of shit. Percent wise, the top 1% pay 39% of federal income taxes. Of the other 99%, 47% pay 0% of federal income taxes. Who isn't paying their "fair share"?

Horse patoot, Rush. Rich pay about 20% in the real world, while payroll taxes add up to more than income taxes for the first time, not to mention property, gas, and the ridiculous fees these days.... Change the channel and stop repeating BS Pubspin.

I see the truth hurts. Pull your head out of your ass.

 

[Bern80]

ALL jobs are worth $11/hour, Elitist (you wish) dittohead. Once we get past this obscenity of a Pub boom and bust economy...

Dude have you not figured out yet that the reason people don't respond to you is not because you're right about anything? It's because no one can understand what the fuck you're saying half the time. One person who can't coherently write in complete sentences is enough for one thread.

 

[Foxfyre]

Bern is correct about that. Most folks don't respond to the childish taunts, leftist platitudes, innuendo, ad hominem, or nasty insults unless they enjoy the food fight scene. And left wing sound bites are just too predictable and borning to make good conversation material. As I don't enjoy or participate in the food fights, juvenile taunts and ad hominem sure isn't the way to engage me in conversation.

 

[JRK]

Bern paying people a fair wage for a fair days work is not working. Paying that same person a good wage for a good days work needs to be tried
what is not moral about that?

It isn't working because you have an unreasonable expectation. You are expecting an outcome from a transaction that was never meant nor should be meant to to produce the outcome you want. Your employer is a buyer, just like you are a buyer. What he is buying is your labor and he is paying you what it is worth to him. What you need to live on has exactly ZERO to do with what your compensation is. it is analgous to a quote from Einstein.

"Everyone is a genius, but if you grade a fish on it's ability to climb a tree, it's going to feel stupid all it's life." You are expecting an outcome of an employer it never had any intention of explicitly providing. Granted it happens for most as a byproduct. But no one goes into business for the purpose of providing for someone elses needs. But you expect that of them anyway and as such are a failure in your eyes. But the issue isn't there failure in your goals. The issue is you demaning an outcome from something that was never meant to produce that outcome.

So here more specifically is what isn't working and maybe then you will see what the actual solution is. What isn't working is expecting that getting a job, ANY job is going to provide you enough to live on. It doesn't work that way because in the financial transacton of compensation between employer and employee your employer is not concerned with what you need to live on. He/she is concerned with the value of what he is purchasing (your skills). If the value of your skills turn out to be less than what you can live on than what needs to change is YOU, not how much your employer pays you. YOU need to figure out what you need to to do to make enough to live on. It is NOT government's job to give you or make your employer give you enough to take care of yourself.

And please give us the detail as to how cutting a corporate tax 150 billion in exchange for raising the minimum wage 150 billion will not work?

The problem is assuming such an exchange would happen. The only way it would is if you actially mandate both of those things. 1)Make all employers pay a living wage and 2) cut the corporate tax rate. Because simply instituting one is not going to change the other. Cutting the corprate tax rate isn't going to make a job that was once worth $8.00/hr now worth $12.00/hour

your first response up top is the same babble as well your second
The govt mandates you an I pay corporations taxes, you have no issue with that. I say that the fedearl govt mandates we pay less in Taxes for the corporation and take that same money and mandate a higher wage than what is mandated now, and you go off of the reservation about morales and cutting taxes being a liberal idea

Bern whats your fix?

 

[JRK]

Bern is correct about that. Most folks don't respond to the childish taunts, leftist platitudes, innuendo, ad hominem, or nasty insults unless they enjoy the food fight scene. And left wing sound bites are just too predictable and borning to make good conversation material. As I don't enjoy or participate in the food fights, juvenile taunts and ad hominem sure isn't the way to engage me in conversation.

Problem is he is not far behind them. There comes a time in which one has to agree to dis agree
He reached that with me a week ago. I have asked him countless times what would he do different
Still waiting

But he is not near as bad as that thread your response was too

 

[Foxfyre]

Bern is correct about that. Most folks don't respond to the childish taunts, leftist platitudes, innuendo, ad hominem, or nasty insults unless they enjoy the food fight scene. And left wing sound bites are just too predictable and borning to make good conversation material. As I don't enjoy or participate in the food fights, juvenile taunts and ad hominem sure isn't the way to engage me in conversation.

Problem is he is not far behind them. There comes a time in which one has to agree to dis agree
He reached that with me a week ago. I have asked him countless times what would he do different
Still waiting

But he is not near as bad as that thread your response was too

Do different about what? A living wage? I think he has been pretty specific, as have several of us, that the most humane, productive, and constructive way to deal with that is to allow the free market to work. He opposes the government dictating that and rejects the notion that 'minimum wage' was ever intended to be a 'living wage'. We'll probably find things to fuss and feud about on other issues, but I believe that Bern and I are on the same page on that particular issue.

If you get government out of it, what do you replace it with? That's like asking that if you put out a fire, what do you replace it with? Government meddling in business--taxation, regulation, mandates, manipulation etc.--is a good deal of what has gotten us into this mess. I am for getting government out of it all except for what regulation is necessary to protect all our rights and what taxation is absolutely necessary to do the necessary functions of government only.

We don't have to replace that with anything or do anything differently as the private sector will then take over and will invariably do it better.

 

[JRK]

Bern is correct about that. Most folks don't respond to the childish taunts, leftist platitudes, innuendo, ad hominem, or nasty insults unless they enjoy the food fight scene. And left wing sound bites are just too predictable and borning to make good conversation material. As I don't enjoy or participate in the food fights, juvenile taunts and ad hominem sure isn't the way to engage me in conversation.

Problem is he is not far behind them. There comes a time in which one has to agree to dis agree
He reached that with me a week ago. I have asked him countless times what would he do different
Still waiting

But he is not near as bad as that thread your response was too

Do different about what? A living wage? I think he has been pretty specific, as have several of us, that the most humane, productive, and constructive way to deal with that is to allow the free market to work. He opposes the government dictating that and rejects the notion that 'minimum wage' was ever intended to be a 'living wage'. We'll probably find things to fuss and feud about on other issues, but I believe that Bern and I are on the same page on that particular issue.

If you get government out of it, what do you replace it with? That's like asking that if you put out a fire, what do you replace it with? Government meddling in business--taxation, regulation, mandates, manipulation etc.--is a good deal of what has gotten us into this mess. I am for getting government out of it all except for what regulation is necessary to protect all our rights and what taxation is absolutely necessary to do the necessary functions of government only.

We don't have to replace that with anything or do anything differently as the private sector will then take over and will invariably do it better.

You got all of that out of what he has said? why did you not let him say it?
No I understand what you have said and ypu have very respectful, but neither of you have offered a resolution to this mess

Look, you and Bern are going to get your way. Status quo. Hi taxes, low wages for the bottom tier while the middle class gets squezzed for it
The federal govt is not getting out of the well-fare business unless we change the amount of those on the bottom make, it is the only way
The only way we can lower taxes is to end these entitlements programs. That only can be done if the EARN enough to move out of that number that allows them to fall within that group

WE HAVE NO CHOICE except cut defense, really to fix this mess the defense budget going to 0 will not fix it
DFefense spending is a mandate and is a cost I fully support

 

[francoHFW]

On the other hand, I'm always right and never lie. So vote for me, George R. Tirebiter.

Google Stephane Mallarme and Modern Rhetoric.

 

[Bern80]

Bern is correct about that. Most folks don't respond to the childish taunts, leftist platitudes, innuendo, ad hominem, or nasty insults unless they enjoy the food fight scene. And left wing sound bites are just too predictable and borning to make good conversation material. As I don't enjoy or participate in the food fights, juvenile taunts and ad hominem sure isn't the way to engage me in conversation.

Oh it's not that. It's worse! I literally do not know what he is trying to say. What am I supposed to get out of constantly posting $11/hr in 1968?

 

[JRK]

Bern is correct about that. Most folks don't respond to the childish taunts, leftist platitudes, innuendo, ad hominem, or nasty insults unless they enjoy the food fight scene. And left wing sound bites are just too predictable and borning to make good conversation material. As I don't enjoy or participate in the food fights, juvenile taunts and ad hominem sure isn't the way to engage me in conversation.

Oh it's not that. It's worse! I literally do not know what he is trying to say. What am I supposed to get out of constantly posting $11/hr in 1968?

that inflation has not kept up with the minimum wage, the rest is jibberish

 

[Bern80]

Problem is he is not far behind them. There comes a time in which one has to agree to dis agree
He reached that with me a week ago. I have asked him countless times what would he do different
Still waiting

But he is not near as bad as that thread your response was too

Do different about what? A living wage? I think he has been pretty specific, as have several of us, that the most humane, productive, and constructive way to deal with that is to allow the free market to work. He opposes the government dictating that and rejects the notion that 'minimum wage' was ever intended to be a 'living wage'. We'll probably find things to fuss and feud about on other issues, but I believe that Bern and I are on the same page on that particular issue.

If you get government out of it, what do you replace it with? That's like asking that if you put out a fire, what do you replace it with? Government meddling in business--taxation, regulation, mandates, manipulation etc.--is a good deal of what has gotten us into this mess. I am for getting government out of it all except for what regulation is necessary to protect all our rights and what taxation is absolutely necessary to do the necessary functions of government only.

We don't have to replace that with anything or do anything differently as the private sector will then take over and will invariably do it better.

You got all of that out of what he has said? why did you not let him say it?
No I understand what you have said and ypu have very respectful, but neither of you have offered a resolution to this mess

Look, you and Bern are going to get your way. Status quo. Hi taxes, low wages for the bottom tier while the middle class gets squezzed for it
The federal govt is not getting out of the well-fare business unless we change the amount of those on the bottom make, it is the only way
The only way we can lower taxes is to end these entitlements programs. That only can be done if the EARN enough to move out of that number that allows them to fall within that group

WE HAVE NO CHOICE except cut defense, really to fix this mess the defense budget going to 0 will not fix it
DFefense spending is a mandate and is a cost I fully support

I have told you on numerous occassion what the solution is. PROBLEM: A person is not making enough to provide for their needs and needs welfare. MY SOLUTION: Do something that does or works you toward making enough to live on.

You're never going to end all welfare JRK. There are always going to be people that leigitimately need government assistance and there's always going to be a group of people who let someone else take care of them if allowed.

Our way is not a preference for high taxes and low wages. You keep saying that and that is why I call you dishonest. Applying a postion to a someone that they don't actually have is the equivalent of arguing against a shadow. We can cut taxes a ton. Government simply has to decided that it's going to reign itself in. Nothing can be off the table as far as cuts, including defense. The defense budger could be cut in HALF and we could do just as good a job defending the country. We have to stop talking about cutting the budgets of departements and start cutting out entire departments.

 

[Foxfyre]

Problem is he is not far behind them. There comes a time in which one has to agree to dis agree
He reached that with me a week ago. I have asked him countless times what would he do different
Still waiting

But he is not near as bad as that thread your response was too

Do different about what? A living wage? I think he has been pretty specific, as have several of us, that the most humane, productive, and constructive way to deal with that is to allow the free market to work. He opposes the government dictating that and rejects the notion that 'minimum wage' was ever intended to be a 'living wage'. We'll probably find things to fuss and feud about on other issues, but I believe that Bern and I are on the same page on that particular issue.

If you get government out of it, what do you replace it with? That's like asking that if you put out a fire, what do you replace it with? Government meddling in business--taxation, regulation, mandates, manipulation etc.--is a good deal of what has gotten us into this mess. I am for getting government out of it all except for what regulation is necessary to protect all our rights and what taxation is absolutely necessary to do the necessary functions of government only.

We don't have to replace that with anything or do anything differently as the private sector will then take over and will invariably do it better.

You got all of that out of what he has said? why did you not let him say it?
No I understand what you have said and ypu have very respectful, but neither of you have offered a resolution to this mess

Look, you and Bern are going to get your way. Status quo. Hi taxes, low wages for the bottom tier while the middle class gets squezzed for it
The federal govt is not getting out of the well-fare business unless we change the amount of those on the bottom make, it is the only way
The only way we can lower taxes is to end these entitlements programs. That only can be done if the EARN enough to move out of that number that allows them to fall within that group

WE HAVE NO CHOICE except cut defense, really to fix this mess the defense budget going to 0 will not fix it
DFefense spending is a mandate and is a cost I fully support

The government is not going to get out of the welfare business until we make it illegal for the federal government to dispense any form of welfare or other benevolence or favors to any kind of special interest. If you raise the minimum wage, Congress will simply raise the threshhold at which people qualify for welfare. Keeping people dependent on government is how they increase their power, prestige, influence, and personal fortunes and they aren't about to cut off a huge segment of society that they pay to keep them in their lucrative positions.

I agree we should not cut defense. But there are hundreds of billions we can cut from the defense budget without cutting defense one cent. The national defense and the defense budget are not necessarily the same thing.

 

[kwc57]

Bern is correct about that. Most folks don't respond to the childish taunts, leftist platitudes, innuendo, ad hominem, or nasty insults unless they enjoy the food fight scene. And left wing sound bites are just too predictable and borning to make good conversation material. As I don't enjoy or participate in the food fights, juvenile taunts and ad hominem sure isn't the way to engage me in conversation.

Problem is he is not far behind them. There comes a time in which one has to agree to dis agree
He reached that with me a week ago. I have asked him countless times what would he do different
Still waiting

But he is not near as bad as that thread your response was too

Again, with all due respect......you are either willfully ignorant or just plain stupid. You have had it spelled out to you by Bern, Fox and myself repeatedly in clear, concise and coherent messages and you are acting like an insolent little child who refuses to listen. Your solution relies on the government reducing corporate taxes in order for businesses to have the extra money to for some odd reason, pay a wage that is higher than the value of a particular job. First, good luck on getting government to reduce taxes. We are in an environment right now where our government wants to heavily increase taxes across the board. Second, if the government mandates a higher wage, it is just growing the government even bigger. Forcing a company to pay a wage is not a free market solution nor conservative. Third, if companies were forced to pay a higher wage, they would either lay off people or cut there hours in addition to raiasing their prices to cover the additional cost. Now all of those folks who aren't making enough are suddenly not making enough again. I know you don't agree with that, but from a "conservative" stance, you are out numbered 3 to 1.

Perhaps it's time to just walk away or start another thread with an OP that states ALL of your thoughts instead of changing them as the thread progresses. A bit of advice, think your post out first and type it into software with a spell checker. Read it for clarity and then read it again. Read it one more time. Use good punctuation and capital letters where needed. It will go a long way to being taken serious, because your many of your posts sound like they were written by someone who English is their second language.

 

[JRK]

Do different about what? A living wage? I think he has been pretty specific, as have several of us, that the most humane, productive, and constructive way to deal with that is to allow the free market to work. He opposes the government dictating that and rejects the notion that 'minimum wage' was ever intended to be a 'living wage'. We'll probably find things to fuss and feud about on other issues, but I believe that Bern and I are on the same page on that particular issue.

If you get government out of it, what do you replace it with? That's like asking that if you put out a fire, what do you replace it with? Government meddling in business--taxation, regulation, mandates, manipulation etc.--is a good deal of what has gotten us into this mess. I am for getting government out of it all except for what regulation is necessary to protect all our rights and what taxation is absolutely necessary to do the necessary functions of government only.

We don't have to replace that with anything or do anything differently as the private sector will then take over and will invariably do it better.

You got all of that out of what he has said? why did you not let him say it?
No I understand what you have said and ypu have very respectful, but neither of you have offered a resolution to this mess

Look, you and Bern are going to get your way. Status quo. Hi taxes, low wages for the bottom tier while the middle class gets squezzed for it
The federal govt is not getting out of the well-fare business unless we change the amount of those on the bottom make, it is the only way
The only way we can lower taxes is to end these entitlements programs. That only can be done if the EARN enough to move out of that number that allows them to fall within that group

WE HAVE NO CHOICE except cut defense, really to fix this mess the defense budget going to 0 will not fix it
DFefense spending is a mandate and is a cost I fully support

I have told you on numerous occassion what the solution is. PROBLEM: A person is not making enough to provide for their needs and needs welfare. MY SOLUTION: Do something that does or works you toward making enough to live on.

You're never going to end all welfare JRK. There are always going to be people that leigitimately need government assistance and there's always going to be a group of people who let someone else take care of them if allowed.

Our way is not a preference for high taxes and low wages. You keep saying that and that is why I call you dishonest. Applying a postion to a someone that they don't actually have is the equivalent of arguing against a shadow. We can cut taxes a ton. Government simply has to decided that it's going to reign itself in. Nothing can be off the table as far as cuts, including defense. The defense budger could be cut in HALF and we could do just as good a job defending the country. We have to stop talking about cutting the budgets of departements and start cutting out entire departments.

Bern there are just so many jobs in this country that pay more than 25,000 a year
I keep telling you somone has to take the garbage out and you keep ignoring that fact

Your lib side just showed it self with the cutting in defense spending. The constitution is very clear about defending this country
any-way we are getting further apart. I guess what your saying is cut everything and cut some things totally out

in 2007 we needed 163 billion dollars eliminated to have a balanced budget. That is a hint as to where the real peoblem is
It is with Obama at the trillion dollar level.

 

[JRK]

Bern is correct about that. Most folks don't respond to the childish taunts, leftist platitudes, innuendo, ad hominem, or nasty insults unless they enjoy the food fight scene. And left wing sound bites are just too predictable and borning to make good conversation material. As I don't enjoy or participate in the food fights, juvenile taunts and ad hominem sure isn't the way to engage me in conversation.

Problem is he is not far behind them. There comes a time in which one has to agree to dis agree
He reached that with me a week ago. I have asked him countless times what would he do different
Still waiting

But he is not near as bad as that thread your response was too

Again, with all due respect......you are either willfully ignorant or just plain stupid. You have had it spelled out to you by Bern, Fox and myself repeatedly in clear, concise and coherent messages and you are acting like an insolent little child who refuses to listen. Your solution relies on the government reducing corporate taxes in order for businesses to have the extra money to for some odd reason, pay a wage that is higher than the value of a particular job. First, good luck on getting government to reduce taxes. We are in an environment right now where our government wants to heavily increase taxes across the board. Second, if the government mandates a higher wage, it is just growing the government even bigger. Forcing a company to pay a wage is not a free market solution nor conservative. Third, if companies were forced to pay a higher wage, they would either lay off people or cut there hours in addition to raiasing their prices to cover the additional cost. Now all of those folks who aren't making enough are suddenly not making enough again. I know you don't agree with that, but from a "conservative" stance, you are out numbered 3 to 1.

Perhaps it's time to just walk away or start another thread with an OP that states ALL of your thoughts instead of changing them as the thread progresses. A bit of advice, think your post out first and type it into software with a spell checker. Read it for clarity and then read it again. Read it one more time. Use good punctuation and capital letters where needed. It will go a long way to being taken serious, because your many of your posts sound like they were written by someone who English is their second language.

You do not have to take me serious bud
I do not have time to use word, copy it and paste it here
If you are thru attacking me, have a good day

This thread has had close to if not over 1000 responses. My spelling and grammer was not on trial here

 

[Foxfyre]

You got all of that out of what he has said? why did you not let him say it?
No I understand what you have said and ypu have very respectful, but neither of you have offered a resolution to this mess

Look, you and Bern are going to get your way. Status quo. Hi taxes, low wages for the bottom tier while the middle class gets squezzed for it
The federal govt is not getting out of the well-fare business unless we change the amount of those on the bottom make, it is the only way
The only way we can lower taxes is to end these entitlements programs. That only can be done if the EARN enough to move out of that number that allows them to fall within that group

WE HAVE NO CHOICE except cut defense, really to fix this mess the defense budget going to 0 will not fix it
DFefense spending is a mandate and is a cost I fully support

I have told you on numerous occassion what the solution is. PROBLEM: A person is not making enough to provide for their needs and needs welfare. MY SOLUTION: Do something that does or works you toward making enough to live on.

You're never going to end all welfare JRK. There are always going to be people that leigitimately need government assistance and there's always going to be a group of people who let someone else take care of them if allowed.

Our way is not a preference for high taxes and low wages. You keep saying that and that is why I call you dishonest. Applying a postion to a someone that they don't actually have is the equivalent of arguing against a shadow. We can cut taxes a ton. Government simply has to decided that it's going to reign itself in. Nothing can be off the table as far as cuts, including defense. The defense budger could be cut in HALF and we could do just as good a job defending the country. We have to stop talking about cutting the budgets of departements and start cutting out entire departments.

Bern there are just so many jobs in this country that pay more than 25,000 a year
I keep telling you somone has to take the garbage out and you keep ignoring that fact

Your lib side just showed it self with the cutting in defense spending. The constitution is very clear about defending this country
any-way we are getting further apart. I guess what your saying is cut everything and cut some things totally out

in 2007 we needed 163 billion dollars eliminated to have a balanced budget. That is a hint as to where the real peoblem is
It is with Obama at the trillion dollar level.

And you think the solution for trillion dollar deficits is raising the minimum wage? I suggest we get rid of Obama and those in Congress who have run up those trillion dollar deficits. They sure as hell didn't spend all that money or even more than a tiny fraction of it on folks earning less than $11/hour.

 

[JRK]

Let me make something clear here
I am not applying for a job
If any of you have an issue with the text messages you read from people who have huge hands like I do and are at the same time day trading stocks, then ignore them.
This is a place to discuss the issue we face as a country, not attacking those who you feel need help with there hands that are the size of a jubliee watermelon
And no I am not fat either.

 

[Bern80]

Bern there are just so many jobs in this country that pay more than 25,000 a year
I keep telling you somone has to take the garbage out and you keep ignoring that fact

I have never ignored that fact. I quite clearly stated that taking out the trash would be a job better suited to someone who does not going to use that job as the sole means of providing for themselves.

Your lib side just showed it self with the cutting in defense spending. The constitution is very clear about defending this country
any-way we are getting further apart. I guess what your saying is cut everything and cut some things totally out

Yes some things need to be cut totally. Our federal government has over stepped its bounds. It has its nose in places it has no business in. As Fox i believe pointed out defending the country and the budget of the department of defense are two different things. I'm talking about reducing the ability to defend the country. I am talking about cutting the defense budget. Just an example; do we really need a military base in a hundred odd countries around the globe? We can do just as good a job of defending the country and still cut significantly what the defense department spends.

 

[Bern80]

Let me make something clear here
I am not applying for a job
If any of you have an issue with the text messages you read from people who have huge hands like I do and are at the same time day trading stocks, then ignore them.
This is a place to discuss the issue we face as a country, not attacking those who you feel need help with there hands that are the size of a jubliee watermelon
And no I am not fat either.

We aren't trying to make fun of you. The simple fact is some of your sentences are constructed so poorly that it isn't possible to understand the message you're sending. It isn't even about disagreeing with you at that point. I can't disagree with what you're saying if I can't even tell what you're saying in the first place.