Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

[Avatar4321]

funny.. I've found it to be the exact opposite. I find that faith expands and enlightens the mind and mote importantly it increases and opens the heart.

it's the misapplication of reason that get people to refuse to consider things outside ones immediate sense. They say I will not consider this or that unless I see evidence. Then they raise the bar of what they consider evidence so high that nothing will satisfy it. Instead of using reason to learn they use it as an excuse to not learn. Faith can likewise be misused.

faith allows people to expand their minds and consider things not immediately apparent. It allows people to learn where reason alone cannot.

I say reason alone but it's more misunderstanding of reason. People dont recognize the limitations of reason. Reason is only good if you have accurate data you are putting in.

those who misuse reason are likely to misunderstand faith as well. They are also likely to miss the opportunity of the heart

So faith then is only good when a person has inaccurate data.

And what kind of heart opening does that give you?

A nice self-induced self-gratifying feeling based on nothing accurate.

Mental masturbation.

Regards
DL

you just proved my point. You reject faith in Christ and have closed your hearty and mind rather than expanding it. When a man begins to truly rely on Christ Hid mind is open to things he has never considered because the Spirit of Truth enlightens His mind and teaches him the truth of all things.

in addition the Spirit shows us the love God has for us. As we see Gods love, we begin to seek after it and share it with others. We begin worrying about the welfare of others.

a rejection of that faith in Christ bring cynicism, despair, and end to growth

Love of God my ass. Only a big fool would think God can love at all.

The bastard has promised to destroy the majority of us while keeping just a few of his best in heaven.

You can shove that love exactly where you keep your head. Up his ass.

Thanks for showing all here how little of love your corrupt religion has taught you.

Regards
DL

you think God created us with the ability to love and yet doesn't know love? He is love. And He will show you if you let Him.

talk with Him. You'd be surprised what you learn. Especially when you let go of your anger

 

[orogenicman]

funny.. I've found it to be the exact opposite. I find that faith expands and enlightens the mind and mote importantly it increases and opens the heart.

it's the misapplication of reason that get people to refuse to consider things outside ones immediate sense. They say I will not consider this or that unless I see evidence. Then they raise the bar of what they consider evidence so high that nothing will satisfy it. Instead of using reason to learn they use it as an excuse to not learn. Faith can likewise be misused.

faith allows people to expand their minds and consider things not immediately apparent. It allows people to learn where reason alone cannot.

I say reason alone but it's more misunderstanding of reason. People dont recognize the limitations of reason. Reason is only good if you have accurate data you are putting in.

those who misuse reason are likely to misunderstand faith as well. They are also likely to miss the opportunity of the heart

So faith then is only good when a person has inaccurate data.

And what kind of heart opening does that give you?

A nice self-induced self-gratifying feeling based on nothing accurate.

Mental masturbation.

Regards
DL

you just proved my point. You reject faith in Christ and have closed your hearty and mind rather than expanding it. When a man begins to truly rely on Christ Hid mind is open to things he has never considered because the Spirit of Truth enlightens His mind and teaches him the truth of all things.

in addition the Spirit shows us the love God has for us. As we see Gods love, we begin to seek after it and share it with others. We begin worrying about the welfare of others.

a rejection of that faith in Christ bring cynicism, despair, and end to growth

Love of God my ass. Only a big fool would think God can love at all.

The bastard has promised to destroy the majority of us while keeping just a few of his best in heaven.

You can shove that love exactly where you keep your head. Up his ass.

Thanks for showing all here how little of love your corrupt religion has taught you.

Regards
DL

you think God created us with the ability to love and yet doesn't know love? He is love. And He will show you if you let Him.

talk with Him. You'd be surprised what you learn. Especially when you let go of your anger

Considering the fact that scientific evidence shows us that nature doesn't give a shit, what love do you suppose your god is demonstrating to us? It's a dog eat dog world out there. It always has been.

 

[DriftingSand]

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the O.T. says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did. “Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.

We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses.

Regards
DL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O1_3zBUKM8

Just the opposite!!! Faith opens the mind to greater possibilities. With faith comes hope and with hope comes joy. If not for my faith I'd have a very dim view of humanity and my own future. The opposite of faith is doubt. No faith = a life of pure doubt. However, I've seen the fruits of faith in my own life and in the lives of others. I've seen the Salvation Army do wonderful things for folks who were down and out and purely destitute. With doubt comes a prison of ones own making while faiths breaks the cage wide open!

IOW. You have faith because it feels good as it makes you hope your delusion is real. Delusion feels good to those who do not like to think ands who try to hide from reality.

Regards
DL

True ... faith DOES feel good; thus, the joy that comes with it. But faith is more than just a "feel good" feeling. It's a belief and an inner knowledge. I wish you could experience it. I don't know why many do and many don't. I count it as a gift.

Delusion is not a gift.

You speak of apotheosis and I claim that as well.

Why did mine send me to a moral religion and why did yours send you to one based on immoral barbaric human sacrifice that is somehow a good form of justice?

Regards
DL

Regards
DL

May I suggest that you pull out your dictionary and research some of the words you're throwing around in an erroneous manner.

 

[DriftingSand]

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the O.T. says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did. “Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.

We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses.

Regards
DL

“My belief in miracles cannot be considered a mystical belief: it is founded on human evidence, as is my belief in the discovery of America. It is, indeed, a simple logical fact that hardly needs to be recognized or interpreted. The extraordinary idea going around is that those who deny the miracle know how to consider the facts coolly and directly, while those who accept the miracle always relate the facts with the dogma previously accepted. In fact, the opposite is the case: the believers accept the miracle (with or without reason) because the evidence compels them to do so. The unbelievers deny it (with or without reason) because the doctrine they profess compels them to do so.”
– G.K. Chesterton from “Orthodoxy” (1908 a.d.)

This is how and where Theist apologists lose most of us- "the believers accept the miracle (with or without reason) because the evidence compels them to do so". If there is evidence that an event happened (no matter how improbable) then it is reasonable to believe that it indeed did happen. Without evidence there is no reason to absolutely believe an event happened no matter how probable. Inclusion in an ancient text is not evidence no matter how fervently a
particular group believes that text is somehow the inspired inerrant words of their chosen Deity. It is no more reasonable to believe a messiah want-to-be fed thousands with a few fish than it is to believe Theseus slew the Minotaur.

Atheists are too caught up in "reason." Can a single atheist give us a "reason" for the existence of the universe? If you believe that there is a reason for life and the universe then you have no choice but to conclude that it is a product of a master mind for "reason" is a product of the mind. If you reject the idea that life and the universe are products of "reason" then your entire thought process is based on a faulty premise thus, unreasonable. You can no longer demand "reason" from others.

 

[the_human_being]

Most faith-based people really don't want to share conversation with atheists in the first place. The real problem is that all atheists consider themselves to be so super-intelligent that they cannot engage in conversation within their own little niche without it ending in a fight over just who is the most intelligent and important. Atheist are all infected with illusion of grandeur and superiority complex. The reason atheists don't believe in God is because they consider themselves to be god. They have determined that they are far more intelligent than the Nazarene carpenter of long ago.

That likely happens when a Christian tells an atheist to turn or burn and start to believe on faith alone. I usually walk away when that superiority complex pops up. Only an overinflated ego will think it has access to a God of the whole universe.

Do you expect atheists to believe in a water walking God when they know about gravity?

How do you explain that?

Let us reason. Would a carpenter and fishermen be good candidates to start a new religion? They could not even read or write. How could they learn of their God?

Regards
DL

Actually, you will find on this forum whenever a Christian makes a statement of any kind, five atheists will start calling him stupid and ignorant and some even begin using profanities. All of them will right away tell each other how intelligent they are. Just as you did putting down a carpenter and a fisherman. I have met some of both who are very intelligent. I know a couple of home builders who are very intelligent and have made tons of money.

No, you are too intelligent to believe the God who created both the water and the law of gravity and who resides outside our dimensional constraints could walk on water let alone appear in a locked room with the doors and windows locked. I realize you are simply too intelligent to know anything about hyper-space travel.

If god created water and the law of gravity, who/what created god? Why would you worship a deity that doesn't reside in your universe? Such a god would have no vested interest in this universe, and so why would you trust such a deity to have your best interest in mind? Think about your response before you post, please. Hyper-space travel? Really? Facepalm, dude.

Why would you care what or whom I worship since you claim it doesn't exist? You make no sense. Why is God weighing upon your mind so much if He doesn't exist as you claim?

I don't care what you worship until your beliefs impinge on mine and/or those of others. And you religionists (particularly you Christians and Muslims) tend to impinge on everyone's beliefs, even those of your brother sects. That is when I respond.

Again your response falls on sand. I haven't preached to you or tried to save you or attempted to impose my views upon you. The truth is, I could care less about you.

 

[the_human_being]

Most faith-based people really don't want to share conversation with atheists in the first place. The real problem is that all atheists consider themselves to be so super-intelligent that they cannot engage in conversation within their own little niche without it ending in a fight over just who is the most intelligent and important. Atheist are all infected with illusion of grandeur and superiority complex. The reason atheists don't believe in God is because they consider themselves to be god. They have determined that they are far more intelligent than the Nazarene carpenter of long ago.

Well, none of that is true, except for the part where religionists don't want to talk with atheists. The real problem is not that atheists consider themselves to be superior to anyone else or everyone else. The problem is not that atheists believe themselves to be god (that would be silly since we don't believe in god). The problem is that religionists are too lazy to think things through, to afraid to rid themselves of long-held delusions and face reality. It doesn't take a superior intellect to do this. It only takes an honest, reasonable mind.

wow. I don't know where to begin. That post is drenched in irony and you probably dont even realize it.

the Lord was right He said there is darkness covering the eyes of the people.

"Man's paradigm of morality is religion based on axiomatic reasoning, not subject to objective proof, personified as God, omnipotent throughout time and space. According to this paradigm, Man need not strive to obtain knowledge from any source other than religion for all is given by God; submission to his God will make all known which man needs in his life, and the rest on a "need to know basis" will be revealed to him in the after world. This is a lazy system for man need not strive to find truth, but it is handed down from above: All things are known to God and all man needs to do is apply and follow these laws which are made known by individual revelation from God to man." -Professor Emeritus, James Conkin

The irony is that you don't see this dishonest, lazy system for what it really is, and instead of having a reasonable discussion about it, you hide behind 2,000 year old scripture as if is somehow valid in the face of 500 years of objective scientific revelation.

What you are proving above all here is that you just want to argue and attempt to showcase your intelligence. Typical atheist desire as I have pointed out.

I am flattered that you think I am intelligent. Thank you.

Actually, what I said was that YOU thought you were intelligent.

 

[the_human_being]

Most faith-based people really don't want to share conversation with atheists in the first place. The real problem is that all atheists consider themselves to be so super-intelligent that they cannot engage in conversation within their own little niche without it ending in a fight over just who is the most intelligent and important. Atheist are all infected with illusion of grandeur and superiority complex. The reason atheists don't believe in God is because they consider themselves to be god. They have determined that they are far more intelligent than the Nazarene carpenter of long ago.

Well, none of that is true, except for the part where religionists don't want to talk with atheists. The real problem is not that atheists consider themselves to be superior to anyone else or everyone else. The problem is not that atheists believe themselves to be god (that would be silly since we don't believe in god). The problem is that religionists are too lazy to think things through, to afraid to rid themselves of long-held delusions and face reality. It doesn't take a superior intellect to do this. It only takes an honest, reasonable mind.

wow. I don't know where to begin. That post is drenched in irony and you probably dont even realize it.

the Lord was right He said there is darkness covering the eyes of the people.

"Man's paradigm of morality is religion based on axiomatic reasoning, not subject to objective proof, personified as God, omnipotent throughout time and space. According to this paradigm, Man need not strive to obtain knowledge from any source other than religion for all is given by God; submission to his God will make all known which man needs in his life, and the rest on a "need to know basis" will be revealed to him in the after world. This is a lazy system for man need not strive to find truth, but it is handed down from above: All things are known to God and all man needs to do is apply and follow these laws which are made known by individual revelation from God to man." -Professor Emeritus, James Conkin

The irony is that you don't see this dishonest, lazy system for what it really is, and instead of having a reasonable discussion about it, you hide behind 2,000 year old scripture as if is somehow valid in the face of 500 years of objective scientific revelation.

The irony is that it is on your mind and not on mine. As I stated before, atheists cannot conversed with one another because they would be fighting over which one is the more intelligent.

Tell that to my atheist girlfriend. We get along better than I ever did with my Jewish wife.

You really flatter yourself. Actually, neither you, your girlfriend, or your wife interest me in the least.

 

[the_human_being]

Most faith-based people really don't want to share conversation with atheists in the first place. The real problem is that all atheists consider themselves to be so super-intelligent that they cannot engage in conversation within their own little niche without it ending in a fight over just who is the most intelligent and important. Atheist are all infected with illusion of grandeur and superiority complex. The reason atheists don't believe in God is because they consider themselves to be god. They have determined that they are far more intelligent than the Nazarene carpenter of long ago.

Well, none of that is true, except for the part where religionists don't want to talk with atheists. The real problem is not that atheists consider themselves to be superior to anyone else or everyone else. The problem is not that atheists believe themselves to be god (that would be silly since we don't believe in god). The problem is that religionists are too lazy to think things through, to afraid to rid themselves of long-held delusions and face reality. It doesn't take a superior intellect to do this. It only takes an honest, reasonable mind.

Of course I disagree. Were what you claim to be true, atheists would not have the question of God on their minds constantly and want to engage in any discussion of God. The real truth of the matter is simply that atheists are vain and simply must announce to anyone who will listen just how smart they deem themselves to be. It really gets tiring hearing it over and over.

Atheists constitute a very small minority in this country. That small minority is constantly accused by religious folk of "darkness" and "sin" and told to 'repent or go to hell" for the simple act of not believing as they do. Is it any wonder that they are constantly having to battle such people to have their views heard? I am sure it does get tiring for you to have to hear it over and over again. But then, if that is the case, why do people like you post such threads as this one? An atheist didn't start this thread. A religionist did. You people can dish it out, but you surely cannot take it.

But I didn't start the thread. I am me. He/she that started the thread is he/she. You fall on your butt yet again.

I didn't say you started the thread. I said people like you did. Try again.

There is no one like me. My DNA is unique unto myself. Try again to excuse your desire to showcase yourself.

 

[GreatestIam]

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the O.T. says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did. “Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.

We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses.

Regards
DL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O1_3zBUKM8

Just the opposite!!! Faith opens the mind to greater possibilities. With faith comes hope and with hope comes joy. If not for my faith I'd have a very dim view of humanity and my own future. The opposite of faith is doubt. No faith = a life of pure doubt. However, I've seen the fruits of faith in my own life and in the lives of others. I've seen the Salvation Army do wonderful things for folks who were down and out and purely destitute. With doubt comes a prison of ones own making while faiths breaks the cage wide open!

IOW. You have faith because it feels good as it makes you hope your delusion is real. Delusion feels good to those who do not like to think ands who try to hide from reality.

Regards
DL

True ... faith DOES feel good; thus, the joy that comes with it. But faith is more than just a "feel good" feeling. It's a belief and an inner knowledge. I wish you could experience it. I don't know why many do and many don't. I count it as a gift.

Delusion is not a gift.

You speak of apotheosis and I claim that as well.

Why did mine send me to a moral religion and why did yours send you to one based on immoral barbaric human sacrifice that is somehow a good form of justice?

Regards
DL

Regards
DL

May I suggest that you pull out your dictionary and research some of the words you're throwing around in an erroneous manner.

If I was wrong I am sure you would have went for the points by trying to look good by correcting me.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the O.T. says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did. “Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.

We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses.

Regards
DL

“My belief in miracles cannot be considered a mystical belief: it is founded on human evidence, as is my belief in the discovery of America. It is, indeed, a simple logical fact that hardly needs to be recognized or interpreted. The extraordinary idea going around is that those who deny the miracle know how to consider the facts coolly and directly, while those who accept the miracle always relate the facts with the dogma previously accepted. In fact, the opposite is the case: the believers accept the miracle (with or without reason) because the evidence compels them to do so. The unbelievers deny it (with or without reason) because the doctrine they profess compels them to do so.”
– G.K. Chesterton from “Orthodoxy” (1908 a.d.)

This is how and where Theist apologists lose most of us- "the believers accept the miracle (with or without reason) because the evidence compels them to do so". If there is evidence that an event happened (no matter how improbable) then it is reasonable to believe that it indeed did happen. Without evidence there is no reason to absolutely believe an event happened no matter how probable. Inclusion in an ancient text is not evidence no matter how fervently a
particular group believes that text is somehow the inspired inerrant words of their chosen Deity. It is no more reasonable to believe a messiah want-to-be fed thousands with a few fish than it is to believe Theseus slew the Minotaur.

Atheists are too caught up in "reason." Can a single atheist give us a "reason" for the existence of the universe? If you believe that there is a reason for life and the universe then you have no choice but to conclude that it is a product of a master mind for "reason" is a product of the mind. If you reject the idea that life and the universe are products of "reason" then your entire thought process is based on a faulty premise thus, unreasonable. You can no longer demand "reason" from others.

Let's see if you have the intelligence to understand this.



Regards
DL

 

[orogenicman]

That likely happens when a Christian tells an atheist to turn or burn and start to believe on faith alone. I usually walk away when that superiority complex pops up. Only an overinflated ego will think it has access to a God of the whole universe.

Do you expect atheists to believe in a water walking God when they know about gravity?

How do you explain that?

Let us reason. Would a carpenter and fishermen be good candidates to start a new religion? They could not even read or write. How could they learn of their God?

Regards
DL

Actually, you will find on this forum whenever a Christian makes a statement of any kind, five atheists will start calling him stupid and ignorant and some even begin using profanities. All of them will right away tell each other how intelligent they are. Just as you did putting down a carpenter and a fisherman. I have met some of both who are very intelligent. I know a couple of home builders who are very intelligent and have made tons of money.

No, you are too intelligent to believe the God who created both the water and the law of gravity and who resides outside our dimensional constraints could walk on water let alone appear in a locked room with the doors and windows locked. I realize you are simply too intelligent to know anything about hyper-space travel.

If god created water and the law of gravity, who/what created god? Why would you worship a deity that doesn't reside in your universe? Such a god would have no vested interest in this universe, and so why would you trust such a deity to have your best interest in mind? Think about your response before you post, please. Hyper-space travel? Really? Facepalm, dude.

Why would you care what or whom I worship since you claim it doesn't exist? You make no sense. Why is God weighing upon your mind so much if He doesn't exist as you claim?

I don't care what you worship until your beliefs impinge on mine and/or those of others. And you religionists (particularly you Christians and Muslims) tend to impinge on everyone's beliefs, even those of your brother sects. That is when I respond.

Again your response falls on sand. I haven't preached to you or tried to save you or attempted to impose my views upon you. The truth is, I could care less about you.

You have made incorrect and demeaning statements about atheists for no reason other than the fact of the hatred in your heart that you hold against them. So to tell me that you have not attempted to impose your views here is disingenuous, to say the least. Take an anger management class, dude.

 

[orogenicman]

Well, none of that is true, except for the part where religionists don't want to talk with atheists. The real problem is not that atheists consider themselves to be superior to anyone else or everyone else. The problem is not that atheists believe themselves to be god (that would be silly since we don't believe in god). The problem is that religionists are too lazy to think things through, to afraid to rid themselves of long-held delusions and face reality. It doesn't take a superior intellect to do this. It only takes an honest, reasonable mind.

wow. I don't know where to begin. That post is drenched in irony and you probably dont even realize it.

the Lord was right He said there is darkness covering the eyes of the people.

"Man's paradigm of morality is religion based on axiomatic reasoning, not subject to objective proof, personified as God, omnipotent throughout time and space. According to this paradigm, Man need not strive to obtain knowledge from any source other than religion for all is given by God; submission to his God will make all known which man needs in his life, and the rest on a "need to know basis" will be revealed to him in the after world. This is a lazy system for man need not strive to find truth, but it is handed down from above: All things are known to God and all man needs to do is apply and follow these laws which are made known by individual revelation from God to man." -Professor Emeritus, James Conkin

The irony is that you don't see this dishonest, lazy system for what it really is, and instead of having a reasonable discussion about it, you hide behind 2,000 year old scripture as if is somehow valid in the face of 500 years of objective scientific revelation.

What you are proving above all here is that you just want to argue and attempt to showcase your intelligence. Typical atheist desire as I have pointed out.

I am flattered that you think I am intelligent. Thank you.

Actually, what I said was that YOU thought you were intelligent.

Intelligence is relative. I'm pretty smart about some things, and less intelligent about others, just like everyone else. We all have our good and bad points. But one thing I won't do is apologize for my education, training, and life experiences. They are part of what defines who I am, and I'll not let pre-illiterate cowards belittle me for them. If you believe I am more intelligent than you, that's on you, not me. I've never made any effort to give anyone that impression, nor do I have any reason to do so. Obviously you do or you wouldn't continue to bring it up. Get over yourself already.

 

[Hollie]

funny.. I've found it to be the exact opposite. I find that faith expands and enlightens the mind and mote importantly it increases and opens the heart.

it's the misapplication of reason that get people to refuse to consider things outside ones immediate sense. They say I will not consider this or that unless I see evidence. Then they raise the bar of what they consider evidence so high that nothing will satisfy it. Instead of using reason to learn they use it as an excuse to not learn. Faith can likewise be misused.

faith allows people to expand their minds and consider things not immediately apparent. It allows people to learn where reason alone cannot.

I say reason alone but it's more misunderstanding of reason. People dont recognize the limitations of reason. Reason is only good if you have accurate data you are putting in.

those who misuse reason are likely to misunderstand faith as well. They are also likely to miss the opportunity of the heart

So faith then is only good when a person has inaccurate data.

And what kind of heart opening does that give you?

A nice self-induced self-gratifying feeling based on nothing accurate.

Mental masturbation.

Regards
DL

you just proved my point. You reject faith in Christ and have closed your hearty and mind rather than expanding it. When a man begins to truly rely on Christ Hid mind is open to things he has never considered because the Spirit of Truth enlightens His mind and teaches him the truth of all things.

in addition the Spirit shows us the love God has for us. As we see Gods love, we begin to seek after it and share it with others. We begin worrying about the welfare of others.

a rejection of that faith in Christ bring cynicism, despair, and end to growth

Love of God my ass. Only a big fool would think God can love at all.

The bastard has promised to destroy the majority of us while keeping just a few of his best in heaven.

You can shove that love exactly where you keep your head. Up his ass.

Thanks for showing all here how little of love your corrupt religion has taught you.

Regards
DL

you think God created us with the ability to love and yet doesn't know love? He is love. And He will show you if you let Him.

talk with Him. You'd be surprised what you learn. Especially when you let go of your anger

I'd like to ask your gawds about that little dalliance they orchestrated that caused most of humanity to be wiped from the planet.

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the O.T. says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did. “Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.

We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses.

Regards
DL

“My belief in miracles cannot be considered a mystical belief: it is founded on human evidence, as is my belief in the discovery of America. It is, indeed, a simple logical fact that hardly needs to be recognized or interpreted. The extraordinary idea going around is that those who deny the miracle know how to consider the facts coolly and directly, while those who accept the miracle always relate the facts with the dogma previously accepted. In fact, the opposite is the case: the believers accept the miracle (with or without reason) because the evidence compels them to do so. The unbelievers deny it (with or without reason) because the doctrine they profess compels them to do so.”
– G.K. Chesterton from “Orthodoxy” (1908 a.d.)

This is how and where Theist apologists lose most of us- "the believers accept the miracle (with or without reason) because the evidence compels them to do so". If there is evidence that an event happened (no matter how improbable) then it is reasonable to believe that it indeed did happen. Without evidence there is no reason to absolutely believe an event happened no matter how probable. Inclusion in an ancient text is not evidence no matter how fervently a
particular group believes that text is somehow the inspired inerrant words of their chosen Deity. It is no more reasonable to believe a messiah want-to-be fed thousands with a few fish than it is to believe Theseus slew the Minotaur.

Atheists are too caught up in "reason." Can a single atheist give us a "reason" for the existence of the universe? If you believe that there is a reason for life and the universe then you have no choice but to conclude that it is a product of a master mind for "reason" is a product of the mind. If you reject the idea that life and the universe are products of "reason" then your entire thought process is based on a faulty premise thus, unreasonable. You can no longer demand "reason" from others.

You're anthropomorphizing nature the same way you anthropomorphize you polytheistic gawds.

There is no argument to be made for the universe to have a reason for existence. That would imply intent. So yes, it is reasonable and rational to reject the idea that life and the universe are products of some underlying reason.

There is no reason to assume we won't find out more and more about the universe as time goes on. This is a very rational and empirical approach given the history of the growth of human knowledge. And, as we know, no discovery in the history of humanity has had a supernatural / magical causation.

Laws of physics don't "break down" per se, although it is a commonly used term even in the scientific community. They just describe different things. An effort has long been underway to come up with a Grand Unified Theory, or GUT. One theory that would explain everything. Although this has more to do with the four prime forces: Gravity, Electromagnetism, Strong Nuclear force, and Weak Nuclear force. So far 2 have been successfully combined, electromagnetism, and the weak nuclear force has been combined into the "Electro-Weak" force. If the supernatural does exist there is no way to ultimately define it within natural law. But, the fact that Newtonian mechanics break down on the quantum level does not mean that quantum phenomena do not exist. Within the total realm of physics we had to understand a new branch to explain phenomena which fall under the principles of relativity.

Religious zealots hijack this idea with sidestepping and denial. Empirically there is no reason to assume an asserted irrational / supernatural being will somehow be discovered by any rational means, and until such time as the idea of supermagical revelation or asserted "psychic methods" are shown conclusive (or is in any way demonstrated), this is what the zealots must contend with.

 

[orogenicman]

Well, none of that is true, except for the part where religionists don't want to talk with atheists. The real problem is not that atheists consider themselves to be superior to anyone else or everyone else. The problem is not that atheists believe themselves to be god (that would be silly since we don't believe in god). The problem is that religionists are too lazy to think things through, to afraid to rid themselves of long-held delusions and face reality. It doesn't take a superior intellect to do this. It only takes an honest, reasonable mind.

wow. I don't know where to begin. That post is drenched in irony and you probably dont even realize it.

the Lord was right He said there is darkness covering the eyes of the people.

"Man's paradigm of morality is religion based on axiomatic reasoning, not subject to objective proof, personified as God, omnipotent throughout time and space. According to this paradigm, Man need not strive to obtain knowledge from any source other than religion for all is given by God; submission to his God will make all known which man needs in his life, and the rest on a "need to know basis" will be revealed to him in the after world. This is a lazy system for man need not strive to find truth, but it is handed down from above: All things are known to God and all man needs to do is apply and follow these laws which are made known by individual revelation from God to man." -Professor Emeritus, James Conkin

The irony is that you don't see this dishonest, lazy system for what it really is, and instead of having a reasonable discussion about it, you hide behind 2,000 year old scripture as if is somehow valid in the face of 500 years of objective scientific revelation.

The irony is that it is on your mind and not on mine. As I stated before, atheists cannot conversed with one another because they would be fighting over which one is the more intelligent.

Tell that to my atheist girlfriend. We get along better than I ever did with my Jewish wife.

You really flatter yourself. Actually, neither you, your girlfriend, or your wife interest me in the least.

And yet you cannot resist responding to my posts? So either you are curious or you are a masochist. You don't actually seem to have much curiosity embedded in your personality, so I expect it is the latter. Correct me if I am wrong. Or not.

 

[orogenicman]

Well, none of that is true, except for the part where religionists don't want to talk with atheists. The real problem is not that atheists consider themselves to be superior to anyone else or everyone else. The problem is not that atheists believe themselves to be god (that would be silly since we don't believe in god). The problem is that religionists are too lazy to think things through, to afraid to rid themselves of long-held delusions and face reality. It doesn't take a superior intellect to do this. It only takes an honest, reasonable mind.

Of course I disagree. Were what you claim to be true, atheists would not have the question of God on their minds constantly and want to engage in any discussion of God. The real truth of the matter is simply that atheists are vain and simply must announce to anyone who will listen just how smart they deem themselves to be. It really gets tiring hearing it over and over.

Atheists constitute a very small minority in this country. That small minority is constantly accused by religious folk of "darkness" and "sin" and told to 'repent or go to hell" for the simple act of not believing as they do. Is it any wonder that they are constantly having to battle such people to have their views heard? I am sure it does get tiring for you to have to hear it over and over again. But then, if that is the case, why do people like you post such threads as this one? An atheist didn't start this thread. A religionist did. You people can dish it out, but you surely cannot take it.

But I didn't start the thread. I am me. He/she that started the thread is he/she. You fall on your butt yet again.

I didn't say you started the thread. I said people like you did. Try again.

There is no one like me. My DNA is unique unto myself. Try again to excuse your desire to showcase yourself.

Non-sequitur. But you knew that.

 

[turzovka]

There is no argument to be made for the universe to have a reason for existence. That would imply intent. So yes, it is reasonable and rational to reject the idea that life and the universe are products of some underlying reason.

So blind nature had no intent or reason for a pancreas appearing when the animal that preceded it had none? It was just another quirky anomaly and a crazy coincidence this organ had a valuable purpose?

Nature is awesome. Especially when one considers there are trillions of evolutionary changes necessary for primitive species to evolve into much more advanced species. And with all of the millions of fossils science has found and identified, you would think we would have found thousands or tens of thousands of “failed experiments.” But does not seem to be the case at all.

And we might also find tens of thousands of transitional fossils between the more primitive species and the more advanced one? For example, if birds came from reptiles I would like to see hundreds of half winged creature fossils, not just that same old one that looks like the road runner (archeo...) they keep having to reproduce for all their text books.

 

[the_human_being]

Actually, you will find on this forum whenever a Christian makes a statement of any kind, five atheists will start calling him stupid and ignorant and some even begin using profanities. All of them will right away tell each other how intelligent they are. Just as you did putting down a carpenter and a fisherman. I have met some of both who are very intelligent. I know a couple of home builders who are very intelligent and have made tons of money.

No, you are too intelligent to believe the God who created both the water and the law of gravity and who resides outside our dimensional constraints could walk on water let alone appear in a locked room with the doors and windows locked. I realize you are simply too intelligent to know anything about hyper-space travel.

If god created water and the law of gravity, who/what created god? Why would you worship a deity that doesn't reside in your universe? Such a god would have no vested interest in this universe, and so why would you trust such a deity to have your best interest in mind? Think about your response before you post, please. Hyper-space travel? Really? Facepalm, dude.

Why would you care what or whom I worship since you claim it doesn't exist? You make no sense. Why is God weighing upon your mind so much if He doesn't exist as you claim?

I don't care what you worship until your beliefs impinge on mine and/or those of others. And you religionists (particularly you Christians and Muslims) tend to impinge on everyone's beliefs, even those of your brother sects. That is when I respond.

Again your response falls on sand. I haven't preached to you or tried to save you or attempted to impose my views upon you. The truth is, I could care less about you.

You have made incorrect and demeaning statements about atheists for no reason other than the fact of the hatred in your heart that you hold against them. So to tell me that you have not attempted to impose your views here is disingenuous, to say the least. Take an anger management class, dude.

Indeed I made statements. Statements which you verified yourself.

 

[the_human_being]

Of course I disagree. Were what you claim to be true, atheists would not have the question of God on their minds constantly and want to engage in any discussion of God. The real truth of the matter is simply that atheists are vain and simply must announce to anyone who will listen just how smart they deem themselves to be. It really gets tiring hearing it over and over.

Atheists constitute a very small minority in this country. That small minority is constantly accused by religious folk of "darkness" and "sin" and told to 'repent or go to hell" for the simple act of not believing as they do. Is it any wonder that they are constantly having to battle such people to have their views heard? I am sure it does get tiring for you to have to hear it over and over again. But then, if that is the case, why do people like you post such threads as this one? An atheist didn't start this thread. A religionist did. You people can dish it out, but you surely cannot take it.

But I didn't start the thread. I am me. He/she that started the thread is he/she. You fall on your butt yet again.

I didn't say you started the thread. I said people like you did. Try again.

There is no one like me. My DNA is unique unto myself. Try again to excuse your desire to showcase yourself.

Non-sequitur. But you knew that.

Yes. There is very little which I require of you to tell me.

 

[the_human_being]

wow. I don't know where to begin. That post is drenched in irony and you probably dont even realize it.

the Lord was right He said there is darkness covering the eyes of the people.

"Man's paradigm of morality is religion based on axiomatic reasoning, not subject to objective proof, personified as God, omnipotent throughout time and space. According to this paradigm, Man need not strive to obtain knowledge from any source other than religion for all is given by God; submission to his God will make all known which man needs in his life, and the rest on a "need to know basis" will be revealed to him in the after world. This is a lazy system for man need not strive to find truth, but it is handed down from above: All things are known to God and all man needs to do is apply and follow these laws which are made known by individual revelation from God to man." -Professor Emeritus, James Conkin

The irony is that you don't see this dishonest, lazy system for what it really is, and instead of having a reasonable discussion about it, you hide behind 2,000 year old scripture as if is somehow valid in the face of 500 years of objective scientific revelation.

The irony is that it is on your mind and not on mine. As I stated before, atheists cannot conversed with one another because they would be fighting over which one is the more intelligent.

Tell that to my atheist girlfriend. We get along better than I ever did with my Jewish wife.

You really flatter yourself. Actually, neither you, your girlfriend, or your wife interest me in the least.

And yet you cannot resist responding to my posts? So either you are curious or you are a masochist. You don't actually seem to have much curiosity embedded in your personality, so I expect it is the latter. Correct me if I am wrong. Or not.

I enjoy toying with those who deem themselves elitists.

 

[the_human_being]

wow. I don't know where to begin. That post is drenched in irony and you probably dont even realize it.

the Lord was right He said there is darkness covering the eyes of the people.

"Man's paradigm of morality is religion based on axiomatic reasoning, not subject to objective proof, personified as God, omnipotent throughout time and space. According to this paradigm, Man need not strive to obtain knowledge from any source other than religion for all is given by God; submission to his God will make all known which man needs in his life, and the rest on a "need to know basis" will be revealed to him in the after world. This is a lazy system for man need not strive to find truth, but it is handed down from above: All things are known to God and all man needs to do is apply and follow these laws which are made known by individual revelation from God to man." -Professor Emeritus, James Conkin

The irony is that you don't see this dishonest, lazy system for what it really is, and instead of having a reasonable discussion about it, you hide behind 2,000 year old scripture as if is somehow valid in the face of 500 years of objective scientific revelation.

What you are proving above all here is that you just want to argue and attempt to showcase your intelligence. Typical atheist desire as I have pointed out.

I am flattered that you think I am intelligent. Thank you.

Actually, what I said was that YOU thought you were intelligent.

Intelligence is relative. I'm pretty smart about some things, and less intelligent about others, just like everyone else. We all have our good and bad points. But one thing I won't do is apologize for my education, training, and life experiences. They are part of what defines who I am, and I'll not let pre-illiterate cowards belittle me for them. If you believe I am more intelligent than you, that's on you, not me. I've never made any effort to give anyone that impression, nor do I have any reason to do so. Obviously you do or you wouldn't continue to bring it up. Get over yourself already.

You came on the thread and chose me to be the vehicle by which you desired to showcase your assumed superiority. I just slapped you down.