Family Court orders Dad not to take child to catholic church

[Ravi]

Quit being a retard, Soggy. toadyfold said it is possible the guy was devout all along. That is impossible because if he was devout all along he wouldn't have renounced Jesus. I realize your pathetic little brain can't comprehend what it means to be devout in a religion...so perhaps you can't quit being a retard.

btw, I didn't say a woman should have more authority. I said the custodial parent should. In this case, it happens to be the woman.

The only ones crying the sky is falling are you, toadyfold, and the hysterical "men" that are upset that daddy got smacked down for using his daughter as a tool.

 

[California Girl]

Quit being a retard, Soggy. toadyfold said it is possible the guy was devout all along. That is impossible because if he was devout all along he wouldn't have renounced Jesus. I realize your pathetic little brain can't comprehend what it means to be devout in a religion...so perhaps you can't quit being a retard.

btw, I didn't say a woman should have more authority. I said the custodial parent should. In this case, it happens to be the woman.

The only ones crying the sky is falling are you, toadyfold, and the hysterical "men" that are upset that daddy got smacked down for using his daughter as a tool.

So the only relevance is that of primary custody? And the non custodial parent - who is fully meeting their obligation to pay child support? Their opinion is of no relevance?

Personally, grown ups should be able to put any differences aside and do what it is in the best interest of the child. Just sayin'. In a family where both parents have different religions, that includes giving the child a grounding in both faiths and allow the child to make its own decisions when it is old enough to do so.

 

[Shogun]

Quit being a retard, Soggy. toadyfold said it is possible the guy was devout all along. That is impossible because if he was devout all along he wouldn't have renounced Jesus. I realize your pathetic little brain can't comprehend what it means to be devout in a religion...so perhaps you can't quit being a retard.

btw, I didn't say a woman should have more authority. I said the custodial parent should. In this case, it happens to be the woman.

The only ones crying the sky is falling are you, toadyfold, and the hysterical "men" that are upset that daddy got smacked down for using his daughter as a tool.

You can't see into the man's heart, Ravi. People do things in order to pacify inlaws. That you think questioning his faith means something is laughable. He won't be the first OR last partner in a relationship to make a concession for the sake of a relationship. I guess I don't really have to ask why you don't seem to be privy to this process.

and, again, from the tone of your victimized post it's pretty clear why you have no problem extending the claws as if the man raped you. Clearly, he has balls and must pay. Especially since you seem dense as hell in regards to the mother's laughable reaction to sprinkled water as if she were not also using her kid as a pawn. But, she's got a 'giner so it's ok.

 

[Ravi]

Quit being a retard, Soggy. toadyfold said it is possible the guy was devout all along. That is impossible because if he was devout all along he wouldn't have renounced Jesus. I realize your pathetic little brain can't comprehend what it means to be devout in a religion...so perhaps you can't quit being a retard.

btw, I didn't say a woman should have more authority. I said the custodial parent should. In this case, it happens to be the woman.

The only ones crying the sky is falling are you, toadyfold, and the hysterical "men" that are upset that daddy got smacked down for using his daughter as a tool.

So the only relevance is that of primary custody? And the non custodial parent - who is fully meeting their obligation to pay child support? Their opinion is of no relevance?

Personally, grown ups should be able to put any differences aside and do what it is in the best interest of the child. Just sayin'. In a family where both parents have different religions, that includes giving the child a grounding in both faiths and allow the child to make its own decisions when it is old enough to do so.

Absolutely. Call me when you find this nirvana. In the meantime, quit sticking up for an idiot that used his daughter as a tool.

 

[Ravi]

Quit being a retard, Soggy. toadyfold said it is possible the guy was devout all along. That is impossible because if he was devout all along he wouldn't have renounced Jesus. I realize your pathetic little brain can't comprehend what it means to be devout in a religion...so perhaps you can't quit being a retard.

btw, I didn't say a woman should have more authority. I said the custodial parent should. In this case, it happens to be the woman.

The only ones crying the sky is falling are you, toadyfold, and the hysterical "men" that are upset that daddy got smacked down for using his daughter as a tool.

You can't see into the man's heart, Ravi. People do things in order to pacify inlaws. That you think questioning his faith means something is laughable. He won't be the first OR last partner in a relationship to make a concession for the sake of a relationship. I guess I don't really have to ask why you don't seem to be privy to this process.

and, again, from the tone of your victimized post it's pretty clear why you have no problem extending the claws as if the man raped you. Clearly, he has balls and must pay. Especially since you seem dense as hell in regards to the mother's laughable reaction to sprinkled water as if she were not also using her kid as a pawn. But, she's got a 'giner so it's ok.

Yep...you cannot help but be the retard. I will concede that point since you can't understand that someone cannot be a devout Catholic and turn their back on Jesus at the same time.

 

[manifold]

If one goes with the fastest horse in this race then clearly one would surmise that this guy doesn't really care that much about his daugter's religion and he's just doing this to be a doucher.

But that is still not a fact. It is entirely possible that he has always been a devout Catholic at heart and he now wants to take the opportunity to share this with his daughter.

Maybe one day Ravi, Jillian et al will learn to tell the difference between fact and assumption.

Uh huh...if that were true he would never have converted.

I said "at heart"

I would think that if you're going to make the effort to bold something, you might actually consider reading it.

 

[manifold]

Uh huh...if that were true he would never have converted.

riiiight.. because no one has ever made choices to compromise personal standards for the sake of a relationship... I'm pretty sure that if this case had the woman bending her faith in order to acclimate to HIS family you wouldn't even be able to climb out of screaming bloody fucking murder to address the religious exposure to the child.

Your well known bias against Jews pretty much excludes you from the discussion.

However, a devout Catholic would never convert to another religion for any reason whatsoever. Ditto with any devout believer. Jesus freaks don't turn their backs on Jesus and claim he isn't the Lord.

Soggy's bias against Jews pales in comparison to your bias against men.

true story.

 

[Ravi]

If one goes with the fastest horse in this race then clearly one would surmise that this guy doesn't really care that much about his daugter's religion and he's just doing this to be a doucher.

But that is still not a fact. It is entirely possible that he has always been a devout Catholic at heart and he now wants to take the opportunity to share this with his daughter.

Maybe one day Ravi, Jillian et al will learn to tell the difference between fact and assumption.

Uh huh...if that were true he would never have converted.

I said "at heart"

I would think that if you're going to make the effort to bold something, you might actually consider reading it.

riiiight...because a devout Catholic at heart would turn his back on Jesus.

 

[jillian]

Jillian, I would ask a question. Passing on your faith is important to you as it should be. Why can you not see that it might also be important to me as a Christian to pass my faith on to my children and extending that to the father in this case?

I agree that in this case, it appears that the father is using his daughter to get back at the mother and that is wrong, but he should have the right to expose his daughter to his faith and thus to his own upbringing. Don't you agree?

Immie

if he converted (which I hadn't seen before) his religion is jewish. So what religion is he passing on? The one he didn't believe in enough to keep?

And the answer is no. Not when their understanding is otherwise.

I have a cousin and a friend who each agreed to raise their child catholic for their husbands. End of story... there IS no other religion to be taught to the kids under those circumstances.

The father's whims are irrelevant and harmful to the child. Mostly, lots of things happen in healthy relationships, such as children being exposed to both of their parents' beliefs. When there has been a divorce, someone gets final say. And under these circumstances mom wins. Under other circumstances dad would.

for example...if i married an atheist who thought it emotionally harmful for his children to be exposed to religion...and i agreed to abide by that when i got married. i'd be obligated to see that through.

 

[Immanuel]

Jillian, I would ask a question. Passing on your faith is important to you as it should be. Why can you not see that it might also be important to me as a Christian to pass my faith on to my children and extending that to the father in this case?

I agree that in this case, it appears that the father is using his daughter to get back at the mother and that is wrong, but he should have the right to expose his daughter to his faith and thus to his own upbringing. Don't you agree?

Immie

if he converted (which I hadn't seen before) his religion is jewish. So what religion is he passing on? The one he didn't believe in enough to keep?

And the answer is no. Not when their understanding is otherwise.

I have a cousin and a friend who each agreed to raise their child catholic for their husbands. End of story... there IS no other religion to be taught to the kids under those circumstances.

The father's whims are irrelevant and harmful to the child. Mostly, lots of things happen in healthy relationships, such as children being exposed to both of their parents' beliefs. When there has been a divorce, someone gets final say. And under these circumstances mom wins. Under other circumstances dad would.

for example...if i married an atheist who thought it emotionally harmful for his children to be exposed to religion...and i agreed to abide by that when i got married. i'd be obligated to see that through.

Thanks for the answer.

I happen to disagree with you about sharing faith but I appreciate your response.

I particularly disagree in the case of a healthy relationship. In a healthy relationship, I believe that the child should be exposed both parent's faith/heritage. In this case... well, I don't believe the father was so committed to his faith in the first place. Nor, I suppose, does it appear that he was all that committed to his wife and daughter, but then I don't believe that the story gives a reason for the divorce. It could have been the wife.

Would there be a difference if Ela was a child of a mixed race marriage? Shouldn't she be taught the heritage of both parents?

Whether or not the Reyes' actually made the agreement to raise Ela Jewish is not established as fact either. Mom says they did, Dad says that is not true.

i'd be obligated to see that through.

Would you really? Do you really believe that?

You are an attorney. I thought that one could not agree to give away one's rights. I do not think such an agreement would stand up in court especially if it is only verbal.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

One more thing Jillian, you stated that if he converted then he is Jewish.

What if he renounced the conversion or returned to Catholicism?

Immie

 

[jillian]

Jillian, I would ask a question. Passing on your faith is important to you as it should be. Why can you not see that it might also be important to me as a Christian to pass my faith on to my children and extending that to the father in this case?

I agree that in this case, it appears that the father is using his daughter to get back at the mother and that is wrong, but he should have the right to expose his daughter to his faith and thus to his own upbringing. Don't you agree?

Immie

if he converted (which I hadn't seen before) his religion is jewish. So what religion is he passing on? The one he didn't believe in enough to keep?

And the answer is no. Not when their understanding is otherwise.

I have a cousin and a friend who each agreed to raise their child catholic for their husbands. End of story... there IS no other religion to be taught to the kids under those circumstances.

The father's whims are irrelevant and harmful to the child. Mostly, lots of things happen in healthy relationships, such as children being exposed to both of their parents' beliefs. When there has been a divorce, someone gets final say. And under these circumstances mom wins. Under other circumstances dad would.

for example...if i married an atheist who thought it emotionally harmful for his children to be exposed to religion...and i agreed to abide by that when i got married. i'd be obligated to see that through.

Thanks for the answer.

I happen to disagree with you about sharing faith but I appreciate your response.

I particularly disagree in the case of a healthy relationship. In a healthy relationship, I believe that the child should be exposed both parent's faith/heritage. In this case... well, I don't believe the father was so committed to his faith in the first place. Nor, I suppose, does it appear that he was all that committed to his wife and daughter, but then I don't believe that the story gives a reason for the divorce. It could have been the wife.

Would there be a difference if Ela was a child of a mixed race marriage? Shouldn't she be taught the heritage of both parents?

Whether or not the Reyes' actually made the agreement to raise Ela Jewish is not established as fact either. Mom says they did, Dad says that is not true.

Immie

no worries. the issue is interesting.

as for the agreement, it is found to be fact because the judge is the trier of fact in this case. and the judge clearly thought dad was lying. you seem to think, given the totality of the circumstances, that dad's story doesn't wash. i agree with that.

every case is different and there are no hard and fast rules. i can't imagine any set of circumstances where, in an inter racial relationship, anyone would consider denying the bi-racial child her heritage.

but religion is a funny thing. and if that was the deal they made, it was the deal they made. if they hadn't made any such agreement, different circumstance.

 

[jillian]

One more thing Jillian, you stated that if he converted then he is Jewish.

What if he renounced the conversion or returned to Catholicism?

Immie

then that's his business, imo. his whims shouldn't be allowed to impact the child negatively. you can't treat kids like yo yo's.

if he converted, then he clearly wanted a united front, religion-wise, for the sake of the child. and the fact that he's using it to bully the mom now that they're separated speaks volumes.

do you see it differently?

 

[Immanuel]

One more thing Jillian, you stated that if he converted then he is Jewish.

What if he renounced the conversion or returned to Catholicism?

Immie

then that's his business, imo. his whims shouldn't be allowed to impact the child negatively. you can't treat kids like yo yo's.

if he converted, then he clearly wanted a united front, religion-wise, for the sake of the child. and the fact that he's using it to bully the mom now that they're separated speaks volumes.

do you see it differently?

No, not in this case. I think he converted to get a piece of mom's tail. I do not think he was serious in his original faith, but then I don't know for sure.

The issue is kind of tough for me. I used to work for a Jewish Community Center. I was mildly insulted by the statements made by many of the Jewish people who worked there that would insinuate that they would not let me marry their daughters because I was not Jewish. Truthfully, it was bothersome, because I would have been accused of being anti-semetic if I had made similar statements.

I believe that they should have agreed to give Ela a taste of both faiths and let her make up her own mind later, but at three years old it is way too early to be going to these lengths. Also, that is what I believe they should have done, I don't know what they actually did.

Immie

 

[jillian]

One more thing Jillian, you stated that if he converted then he is Jewish.

What if he renounced the conversion or returned to Catholicism?

Immie

then that's his business, imo. his whims shouldn't be allowed to impact the child negatively. you can't treat kids like yo yo's.

if he converted, then he clearly wanted a united front, religion-wise, for the sake of the child. and the fact that he's using it to bully the mom now that they're separated speaks volumes.

do you see it differently?

No, not in this case. I think he converted to get a piece of mom's tail. I do not think he was serious in his original faith, but then I don't know for sure.

The issue is kind of tough for me. I used to work for a Jewish Community Center. I was mildly insulted by the statements made by many of the Jewish people who worked there that would insinuate that they would not let me marry their daughters because I was not Jewish. Truthfully, it was bothersome, because I would have been accused of being anti-semetic if I had made similar statements.

I believe that they should have agreed to give Ela a taste of both faiths and let her make up her own mind later, but at three years old it is way too early to be going to these lengths. Also, that is what I believe they should have done, I don't know what they actually did.

Immie

i understand why you'd be offended. but you also have to understand that many jews see marrying outside the faith as an act of destruction...particularly given the large number of jewish family lines that were destroyed circa WWII.

I don't know if the same people would have called you anti-semitic. For all you know, they'd have patted you on the back and agreed with you.

plus, i don't have to tell you the history. assimilation is a big no no for jews. It's one of the things that preserved the belief system and one of the things that isolates jews from others.

doesn't make it right... just is what it is.

as i told you, i have a cousin and a friend, both with catholic children.

my nephews have a jewish father and a protestant mother. she never converted and the boys were given both religions.

my brother is now remarried. his wife is catholic. she says she's converting to judiaism so their children, when they have any, will have two parents who are the same.

like i said, it depends on what they agree to.

 

[Kalam]

A Jewish judge was allowed to forbid a child's parent from "exposing her to any religion other than Judaism"? I find it interesting that people are actually defending this. This judge made an absolute mockery of the secular nature of America's judicial system, and now a man faces legal consequences for daring to expose his daughter to a goy religion.

If you don't want your child exposed to other beliefs, tough shit. Move to a theocracy or a country with less religious heterogeneity if your religious convictions are that frail. Baptism doesn't mean anything -- as a member of a multi-religious family, some of my relatives ensured that I was baptized as a Catholic when I was a baby. As you can see, it didn't have much of an effect.

 

[Shogun]

yea..... but so to do many, MANY white people think the exact same thing about their daughters marrying non-whites. The holocaust is no excuse for bigotry.

he makes a valid point about how one sided the acceptance of exclusivity is.

 

[Dr Grump]

if he converted, then he clearly wanted a united front, religion-wise, for the sake of the child. and the fact that he's using it to bully the mom now that they're separated speaks volumes.

do you see it differently?

Unlike the mum and her parents bullying him to convert in the first place?

 

[jillian]

if he converted, then he clearly wanted a united front, religion-wise, for the sake of the child. and the fact that he's using it to bully the mom now that they're separated speaks volumes.

do you see it differently?

Unlike the mum and her parents bullying him to convert in the first place?

what makes you think they did?

like i said. my first SIL didn't convert.

my current one says she wants to.

 

[Immanuel]

then that's his business, imo. his whims shouldn't be allowed to impact the child negatively. you can't treat kids like yo yo's.

if he converted, then he clearly wanted a united front, religion-wise, for the sake of the child. and the fact that he's using it to bully the mom now that they're separated speaks volumes.

do you see it differently?

No, not in this case. I think he converted to get a piece of mom's tail. I do not think he was serious in his original faith, but then I don't know for sure.

The issue is kind of tough for me. I used to work for a Jewish Community Center. I was mildly insulted by the statements made by many of the Jewish people who worked there that would insinuate that they would not let me marry their daughters because I was not Jewish. Truthfully, it was bothersome, because I would have been accused of being anti-semetic if I had made similar statements.

I believe that they should have agreed to give Ela a taste of both faiths and let her make up her own mind later, but at three years old it is way too early to be going to these lengths. Also, that is what I believe they should have done, I don't know what they actually did.

Immie

i understand why you'd be offended. but you also have to understand that many jews see marrying outside the faith as an act of destruction...particularly given the large number of jewish family lines that were destroyed circa WWII.

I don't know if the same people would have called you anti-semitic. For all you know, they'd have patted you on the back and agreed with you.

plus, i don't have to tell you the history. assimilation is a big no no for jews. It's one of the things that preserved the belief system and one of the things that isolates jews from others.

doesn't make it right... just is what it is.

as i told you, i have a cousin and a friend, both with catholic children.

my nephews have a jewish father and a protestant mother. she never converted and the boys were given both religions.

my brother is now remarried. his wife is catholic. she says she's converting to judiaism so their children, when they have any, will have two parents who are the same.

like i said, it depends on what they agree to.

I understand all that, but it doesn't make it any easier.

And I can honestly say that if one of my daughters came home and said they were going to marry a Jewish man and raise their children Jewish, I would not be thrilled... well, I would be thrilled for my daughters (whom I am convinced are going to be old maids) but I would not feel comfortable not being able to share my faith with my grandchildren. It is who I am.

Although, beyond that, it would not bother me if they did marry a Jewish man. I'd expect an invite to a few Passover Seders.

Immie