Family Kicked Off Flight After Daughter With Autism Deemed 'Disruptive'

[Esmeralda]

Have to keep in mind that people with severe autism and other 'out of control' disabilities may look like people, but strictly speaking they're not. A person has a functional frontal lobe which governs our actions in public. If you're so disabled you can't control yourself, then you're basicly a wild animal without a leash. If you wouldn't welcome a gorilla or bear on a plane because it might stomp around or attack people, why apply a different standard to a severely disabled human?

Don't let emotions overrule your common sense.

May you burn in hell.

You wouldn't know what common sense was if it smacked you in the face.

 

[Roadrunner]

United did the right thing. PERIOD. Their spectrum problem is not worth the lives of 250 people trying to get to their own spectrums.

And is that the new word for uncontrollable handicapped people? SPECTRUMS?

Wow you don't even know why I used "spectrum." Don't unsubscribe! Then how will your ignorant ass learn anything? Gracie Gracie Gracie Gracie Gracie Gracie Gracie Gracie Gracie

Don't call me again. I have no clue why you use spectrum, don't care. Fuck off.

Yeah Gracie, ignorance is bliss.

All respect lost for you. I liked you for a very long time. No more.

I can hear poor Gracie sobbing from here, you meanie.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Think of this another way: if we tolerate this sort of thing what's to stop religious people from bringing their "possessed by demons" kids on planes? Do we tolerate that too?

It's like rides at amusement parks, if you're not tall enough or weigh too much you're not allowed on the amsuement. That's for your safety and the safety of everyone. You don't get waved by because you have some abnormality in your brain, it's absolutely the same issue.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Have to keep in mind that people with severe autism and other 'out of control' disabilities may look like people, but strictly speaking they're not. A person has a functional frontal lobe which governs our actions in public. If you're so disabled you can't control yourself, then you're basicly a wild animal without a leash. If you wouldn't welcome a gorilla or bear on a plane because it might stomp around or attack people, why apply a different standard to a severely disabled human?

Don't let emotions overrule your common sense.

May you burn in hell.

You wouldn't know what common sense was if it smacked you in the face.

As my Mom has said, "You're the only one who always tells the truth."

If you wanna live in la-la land where everyone's equal and we change rules on the fly to suit an individual that's on you. I'm not willing to compromise safety and order because some poor unforunate can't control themselves.

 

[Esmeralda]

And maybe you can tell me why?!
While our government(i understand that there are two words to describe that - "Double Standards") are trying to make lives of one part of our society better, they forget about other...
How long will we see such incompetence?!
An Oregon mom has filed a complaint against United Airlines after it removed her and family from a flight because it said her 15-year-old daughter, who has autism, had become "disruptive."
Family Kicked Off Flight After Daughter With Autism Deemed Disruptive - NBC News
The woman, Dr. Donna Beegle of Tigard, Oregon — a prominent advocate for anti-poverty programs who frequently consults with state and federal government agencies — was returning home with her family from a trip to Walt Disney World last week when her daughter Juliette became agitated because she was hungry during a layover in Houston, Beegle said.

So we as a society should set the bar low enough so people with disabilities can meet it? Should we change traffic lights too to 'kinda red' and if you stop or just slow down alittle that's "good enough?"

If someone with disabilities can't adapt to the norms and standards of the rest of society stay home. Sorry but we can't just let people with problems act however they may in public. There are safety concerns and public good interests.

You really, really are not one to talk about other people's issues and limitations.

 

[Roadrunner]

It's pretty damn sad that some folks decide to not like ya any more because someone disagrees with something.
And if it is that easy to do for a topic on a message board, I can imagine what COULD have happened on the plane with 250 passengers and possibly one very out of control autistic child.

It may seem or even be intolerant of folks who paid for their ticket to ride and safely land without having to deal with what the parents of this child deal with every day, but that is the way it is. It does not mean nobody is unsympathetic, either. It means one versus 250 and what MIGHT have happened.

What if someone were heading home because a loved one died or was dying in a hospital and the anguish they are feeling, doomed to watch this girl blow a gasket in a plane where everyone is crammed together? Do they not count because the girl has a handicap and the mother didn't feed her a "hot meal" before boarding? Or those who worked 70 hours a week to pay for a vacation from their very stressful jobs to get a plane ticket to take them to peace and quiet only to be fucked watching and listening to MAYBE the kid having a hissy? And what about the captain, the crew? Nowadays, flying is dangerous. And stressful. She should have fed her kid what the kid wanted and gave her a pill to keep her calm just like folks do when they have to go to the dentist. It is not abuse to keep the kid happily sleepy and those in close proximity STUCK on a plane 30,000 feet in the air not having to deal with her.

But...those who say these things are awful, horrible, unsympathetic human beings and shame on us, I guess.

Not.

I wish they had ejection seats for parents with asshole kids.

Just push a button, and out they go.

I grew up with autism, and I admit I'm divided on this issue. I can see why the airline would remove the child, but it never should have come to that. Why couldn't the airline provide a child with autism a first class meal? Not for the sake of the other passengers, but for the sake of not being another heartless corporation.

Why weren't they asked to provide one before taking off?

Why didn't the parents have a thermos with a meal for the kid?

Why didn't they pay for 1st class if they needed first class?

But let's blame it on a heartless corporation.

Yeah, that's the ticket, corporate greed caused this.

 

[Esmeralda]

Have to keep in mind that people with severe autism and other 'out of control' disabilities may look like people, but strictly speaking they're not. A person has a functional frontal lobe which governs our actions in public. If you're so disabled you can't control yourself, then you're basicly a wild animal without a leash. If you wouldn't welcome a gorilla or bear on a plane because it might stomp around or attack people, why apply a different standard to a severely disabled human?

Don't let emotions overrule your common sense.

May you burn in hell.

You wouldn't know what common sense was if it smacked you in the face.

As my Mom has said, "You're the only one who always tells the truth."

If you wanna live in la-la land where everyone's equal and we change rules on the fly to suit an individual that's on you. I'm not willing to compromise safety and order because some poor unforunate can't control themselves.

You are one sick MF, and I'm not talking about just your posts in this thread but your posts throughout the board. If anyone belongs in a psycho ward, it is you.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Have to keep in mind that people with severe autism and other 'out of control' disabilities may look like people, but strictly speaking they're not. A person has a functional frontal lobe which governs our actions in public. If you're so disabled you can't control yourself, then you're basicly a wild animal without a leash. If you wouldn't welcome a gorilla or bear on a plane because it might stomp around or attack people, why apply a different standard to a severely disabled human?

Don't let emotions overrule your common sense.

May you burn in hell.

You wouldn't know what common sense was if it smacked you in the face.

As my Mom has said, "You're the only one who always tells the truth."

If you wanna live in la-la land where everyone's equal and we change rules on the fly to suit an individual that's on you. I'm not willing to compromise safety and order because some poor unforunate can't control themselves.

You are one sick MF, and I'm not talking about just your posts in this thread but your posts throughout the board. If anyone belongs in a psycho ward, it is you.

Instead of venting your emotional issues, how about demonstrating with facts and evidence how someone's wrong. If you can't, count to 10 and think happy thoughts instead.

 

[Esmeralda]

Have to keep in mind that people with severe autism and other 'out of control' disabilities may look like people, but strictly speaking they're not. A person has a functional frontal lobe which governs our actions in public. If you're so disabled you can't control yourself, then you're basicly a wild animal without a leash. If you wouldn't welcome a gorilla or bear on a plane because it might stomp around or attack people, why apply a different standard to a severely disabled human?

Don't let emotions overrule your common sense.

May you burn in hell.

You wouldn't know what common sense was if it smacked you in the face.

As my Mom has said, "You're the only one who always tells the truth."

If you wanna live in la-la land where everyone's equal and we change rules on the fly to suit an individual that's on you. I'm not willing to compromise safety and order because some poor unforunate can't control themselves.

You are one sick MF, and I'm not talking about just your posts in this thread but your posts throughout the board. If anyone belongs in a psycho ward, it is you.

Instead of venting your emotional issues, how about demonstrating with facts and evidence how someone's wrong. If you can't, count to 10 and think happy thoughts instead.

You are an AH. Read the thread. I have posted many times in the thread and have made my position explicitly clear, with reasoning and evidence. I'm certainly not going to repeat it all for you. And do not expect me to respond to you again: you are not worthy of my attention.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Have to keep in mind that people with severe autism and other 'out of control' disabilities may look like people, but strictly speaking they're not. A person has a functional frontal lobe which governs our actions in public. If you're so disabled you can't control yourself, then you're basicly a wild animal without a leash. If you wouldn't welcome a gorilla or bear on a plane because it might stomp around or attack people, why apply a different standard to a severely disabled human?

Don't let emotions overrule your common sense.

May you burn in hell.

You wouldn't know what common sense was if it smacked you in the face.

As my Mom has said, "You're the only one who always tells the truth."

If you wanna live in la-la land where everyone's equal and we change rules on the fly to suit an individual that's on you. I'm not willing to compromise safety and order because some poor unforunate can't control themselves.

You are one sick MF, and I'm not talking about just your posts in this thread but your posts throughout the board. If anyone belongs in a psycho ward, it is you.

Instead of venting your emotional issues, how about demonstrating with facts and evidence how someone's wrong. If you can't, count to 10 and think happy thoughts instead.

You are an AH. Read the thread. I have posted many times in the thread and have made my position explicitly clear, with reasoning and evidence. I'm certainly not going to repeat it all for you. And do not expect me to respond to you again: you are not worthy of my attention.

My way keeps flights safe for all.

Your way turns a flight into a kindergarten nightmare with screaming kids running around.

 

[pinqy]

Why weren't they asked to provide one before taking off?[/qutoe]
Because it wasn't known it would be necessary.

Why didn't the parents have a thermos with a meal for the kid?

Because the plan was that they would eat before boarding. it could not be predicted that the girl would refuse.

Why didn't they pay for 1st class if they needed first class?

they didn't need first class...just a hot meal. And again, could not have been predicted.

 

[Papageorgio]

Why weren't they asked to provide one before taking off?[/qutoe]
Because it wasn't known it would be necessary.

Why didn't the parents have a thermos with a meal for the kid?

Because the plan was that they would eat before boarding. it could not be predicted that the girl would refuse.

Why didn't they pay for 1st class if they needed first class?

they didn't need first class...just a hot meal. And again, could not have been predicted.

Well the mother stated her girl only liked hot meals. So, it was very predictable.

 

[Flopper]

The girl is 15, 120 lbs according to the mother. Normal flight from Orlando to DC is about 2.30 hours. Seems that this could have been prevented simply by the parents feeding the child 'hot food' before they left.

From the mother's comment she claimed she had a bag full of the girl's 'favorite treats' but she said she became agitated because of hunger and would only eat hot food.

This is all very weird.

You've never had to deal with an autistic child. They are EXACTLY like that.

I've taught many autistic special needs children. I currently work with 3 autistic young adults. Exactly like what, are you implying?

I've no doubt she became distraught over hunger and quickly was placated when fed. I don't think that the family should have been removed from the plane based on the story thus far. It sounds like she had regained control.

My question though was why was she on a plane for a relatively short flight, hungry? The mother said that the daughter will only eat 'hot food.' Ok, could have packed something in thermos, but why not have just grabbed a meal before boarding? More to the point, the mother later wrote a comment, in reply to comments directed towards her, stating that they had a bag full of daughter's favorite treats. Being reasonable, perhaps the daughter will eat 'non-hot' food, after a meal? Still begs the question why she wasn't fed before boarding.

Maybe they tried and she wouldn't eat before boarding and then AFTER boarding suddenly decided she was hungry. You talk about all your expertise with autistic children, but as a father of a real autistic child, nothing about this story strikes me as odd. My son is wired the same way.

The two main issues here are, imo, that the 'child's' behavior is unpredictable. For a 2.5 hour flight, though she may have regained a calm appearance at the beginning of the flight, the pilot does not know if she will stay that way for 2.5 hours. The other important point is that this 'child' weighs 120 pounds. She is the size of an adult woman, and probably just as strong. If she became violent, and the mother said there was potential for violence, what might have happened? We don't know, but the pilot has an obligation to all the passengers and crew on that plane to remove the potential of violence and continue with a safe and calm flight. Safety first.

I don't blame the child, of course, but I think the parents made poor decisions.

I think all too often we look for someone to blame for every unfortunate event in the news. I don't blame the airline. They did exactly as they should, look after the safety and comfort of the passengers. It's also hard to fault the mother. She said the child had been flying since she was was a baby without incident.

 

[Flopper]

It's sad how terrified people in this country are of people with autism; as evidenced in this thread. Thank goodness awareness is increasing.

I don't think anyone on this thread (though I do disagree with some posters'comments) is 'terrified'of people with autism. If you fly regularly, you are aware of the perspective of regular passengers regarding a calm, orderly and safe flight. The mother herself warned of the potential for violence.

This issue is not about being afraid of autism. It is about how this type of situation should be handled by the parents so what happened here doesn't happen.

Calming down an autistic child can be difficult and sometimes impossible. If you know their triggers, you can often avoid problems. However, once triggered, it can be very difficult to calm them and sometime impossible.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

It's sad how terrified people in this country are of people with autism; as evidenced in this thread. Thank goodness awareness is increasing.

Really? Terrified? Pahlease. You surprise me. A screaming kid...young or old...disrupting others and possibly causing harm to themselves or to others is not "terrified".

Terrified was the right word. Try seeing it from my point of view.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

It's sad how terrified people in this country are of people with autism; as evidenced in this thread. Thank goodness awareness is increasing.

I don't think anyone on this thread (though I do disagree with some posters'comments) is 'terrified'of people with autism. If you fly regularly, you are aware of the perspective of regular passengers regarding a calm, orderly and safe flight. The mother herself warned of the potential for violence.

This issue is not about being afraid of autism. It is about how this type of situation should be handled by the parents so what happened here doesn't happen.

Calming down an autistic child can be difficult and sometimes impossible. If you know their triggers, you can often avoid problems. However, once triggered, it can be very difficult to calm them and sometime impossible.

You have to figure out a way to put them back in control of their environment. It can be very challenging.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

If i had to put up with one second of that horse shit, i would want my money back from the airline. For the amount i pay for a ticket, i expect there to be order on the ride.

I'd rather sit next to this girl and her family than an asshole like yourself.

No... you wouldnt.

I would. I can tolerate a child with autism. I can't tolerate shameless assholes.

If you sat next to me, you would have no reason to think I'm an asshole. I would respect your space and I'd be polite. I might even share my snacks with you.

You would definitely prefer to sit next to me.

Oh ignorance is bliss I'd suppose.

How about this, I'd offer to switch seats with you if you were upset about a child with autism sitting next to you. Not for your sake, but so the family wouldn't have to deal with an ignorant rube. Deal?

They just don't understand. I've learned not to take it personally.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Lets go with another scenario. So...United shows they have a heart and the captain does NOT remove her. She goes wild, someone gets hurt or worse, the girl reaches an exit door or kicks something that causes a problem with the plane. Are they still heartless to the girl or are they heartless to the other passengers?

How many autistic children do you think have boarded a plane before? Probably thousands. How many have brought down a plane? How many children in general have been disruptive on a plane? This is only making news because they removed the child from the flight. There is no indication that this girl was a risk to the passengers.

Her mother said she could be violent. Seems to me the mom is what made the red flags wave. And if they were midflight takeoff...or soon after taking off, the crew does not prep hot meals. Nothing is ready.
Again, it is not the airlines problem OR the passengers problem. It is the parents problem if their child "can become violent".

I agree that the mother making that comment was a mistake. I'm autistic. I can become violent, but rarely do. In the end I think the biggest mistake was the mother making that comment, but I still think the airline acted incorrectly.

My son is high functioning too. I hope he turns out to be as articulate, intelligent, and interactive as you clearly are.

 

[Flopper]

Have to keep in mind that people with severe autism and other 'out of control' disabilities may look like people, but strictly speaking they're not. A person has a functional frontal lobe which governs our actions in public. If you're so disabled you can't control yourself, then you're basicly a wild animal without a leash. If you wouldn't welcome a gorilla or bear on a plane because it might stomp around or attack people, why apply a different standard to a severely disabled human?

Don't let emotions overrule your common sense.

And maybe you can tell me why?!
While our government(i understand that there are two words to describe that - "Double Standards") are trying to make lives of one part of our society better, they forget about other...
How long will we see such incompetence?!
An Oregon mom has filed a complaint against United Airlines after it removed her and family from a flight because it said her 15-year-old daughter, who has autism, had become "disruptive."
Family Kicked Off Flight After Daughter With Autism Deemed Disruptive - NBC News
The woman, Dr. Donna Beegle of Tigard, Oregon — a prominent advocate for anti-poverty programs who frequently consults with state and federal government agencies — was returning home with her family from a trip to Walt Disney World last week when her daughter Juliette became agitated because she was hungry during a layover in Houston, Beegle said.

So we as a society should set the bar low enough so people with disabilities can meet it? Should we change traffic lights too to 'kinda red' and if you stop or just slow down alittle that's "good enough?"

If someone with disabilities can't adapt to the norms and standards of the rest of society stay home. Sorry but we can't just let people with problems act however they may in public. There are safety concerns and public good interests.

This girl just was hungry!
She wasn't aggressive, she did nothing to be blamed for, she just wanted to eat, there was no reason to call cops, because they could just find some ****ing food for this girl, because she's member of our society too.
>Should we change traffic lights too to 'kinda red'
We already created traffic light for color blind people for example.

She did something that prompted the incident. A person with a personality quirk doesn't get a plane's detination changed. And it wasn't she was hungry. It was oweing to her condition, she had to have it her way. Sorry but society doesn't adapt itself to an individual's demands. You play by society's rules or you stay indoors at home.

Society has laws and standards of behaviour ALL are held to. If we suddenly apply a sidfferent standard for those with disabilities, where do we draw the line? How disabled do you have to be to be exempt from standards governing behaviour? What about retardation? Can you just be dumb and get a pass? What about other conditions? Can you run up and down the aisle with your pants down around your ankles screaming at the top of your lungs because you're disabled to?

The girl was a safety concern. If when she doesn't get her way she's prone to scratching and biting she shouldn't be allowed on planes EVER. Wanna take your spastic child to a chaotic amusement park with flashing lights, vast crowds, and people in costumes to see what happens, go ahead. But you don't endanger the public putting them onto a plane whose safety hinges on people following safety rules.

Society does hold people with some disabilities to different standards. Persons not capable of controlling and unaware of their actions are not held responsible for them.

Autistic children particular those on the higher end of the spectrum can seem perfectly normal but once triggered, they can have some pretty bizarre behavior. The problem for most parents with autism is anticipating the triggers. You can't just keep these kids at home all the time. Higher level autistic kids can be perfectly normal 99% of the time, then some trigger sets them off.

 

[Flopper]

It's sad how terrified people in this country are of people with autism; as evidenced in this thread. Thank goodness awareness is increasing.

I don't think anyone on this thread (though I do disagree with some posters'comments) is 'terrified'of people with autism. If you fly regularly, you are aware of the perspective of regular passengers regarding a calm, orderly and safe flight. The mother herself warned of the potential for violence.

This issue is not about being afraid of autism. It is about how this type of situation should be handled by the parents so what happened here doesn't happen.

Calming down an autistic child can be difficult and sometimes impossible. If you know their triggers, you can often avoid problems. However, once triggered, it can be very difficult to calm them and sometime impossible.

You have to figure out a way to put them back in control of their environment. It can be very challenging.

That's true. Usually it involves removing whatever triggered the episode. That can be difficult it you are trapped on an airliner.