Fascism and the left wing

[JakeStarkey]

Well, I see very few realize that progressive statism (communism, fascism, totalitarianism, authoritarianism) have right and left wings.

 

[Wry Catcher]

A better definition than right or left is pragmatic and ideological. If we need to use the simple left-right paradigm those on the far left and those on the far right are ideological; those in the middle, moderate D's and moderate R's are practical, problem solvers.

Moderate D's seek change, hence they identify as progressives; moderate R's seek stability, hence they identify as conservatives. In a sane world the R's and D's work together and seek win-win solutions to the myriad problems facing We The People.

 

[AmyNation]

No. Fascism is a form of socialism.
.

Oh dear.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

And of course no amoint of information, dictionary definitions or sources could convince you of the fact that you are so obviously wrong.

The dictionaries are wrong. You are right.

Brilliant.


Definition of fascism
noun
[mass noun]

an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices: this is yet another example of health fascism in action

Definition of fascism - political system, politics and practice

Dictionaries are written by liberals. Anything in them that is even remotely political is bullshit.

*falls into a fit of giggles*

 

[Saigon]

A better definition than right or left is pragmatic and ideological. If we need to use the simple left-right paradigm those on the far left and those on the far right are ideological; those in the middle, moderate D's and moderate R's are practical, problem solvers.

Moderate D's seek change, hence they identify as progressives; moderate R's seek stability, hence they identify as conservatives. In a sane world the R's and D's work together and seek win-win solutions to the myriad problems facing We The People.

That's not bad thinking...but are pragmatism and ideology mutually exclusive?

 

[Saigon]

Oh dear.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

And of course no amoint of information, dictionary definitions or sources could convince you of the fact that you are so obviously wrong.

The dictionaries are wrong. You are right.

Brilliant.


Definition of fascism
noun
[mass noun]

an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices: this is yet another example of health fascism in action

Definition of fascism - political system, politics and practice

Dictionaries are written by liberals. Anything in them that is even remotely political is bullshit.

*falls into a fit of giggles*

I know, I know!!

I really do think that is one of the funniest things I have ever seen posted!

Just a priceless, wonderful post from BriPat.

 

[Wiseacre]

Well, I see very few realize that progressive statism (communism, fascism, totalitarianism, authoritarianism) have right and left wings.

Hard to understand how the right wing wants anything like progressive statism if any form. Any kind of reduction in individual rights and liberties is antithetical to conservatism, really doesn't matter what form it may take. Typically a progressive statist regime requires a large bureaucracy, and a military/police force to keep it in power. It's true that the right in this country wants a stronger military, but not for the purpose of taking control of the gov't.

Some point to issues such as abortion or gay rights as an example where the right seems to oppose an individual's rights. One might say the right isn't perfect when it comes to holding true to their own ideals. One might also say the left isn't either, but that's a discussion for another thread. Even if today's RWers play fast and loose with thir own ideology for political reasons, that does not change the fact that in theory the righties are supposed to be for smaller, limited gov't with less power and less intervention.

 

[Wry Catcher]

A better definition than right or left is pragmatic and ideological. If we need to use the simple left-right paradigm those on the far left and those on the far right are ideological; those in the middle, moderate D's and moderate R's are practical, problem solvers.

Moderate D's seek change, hence they identify as progressives; moderate R's seek stability, hence they identify as conservatives. In a sane world the R's and D's work together and seek win-win solutions to the myriad problems facing We The People.

That's not bad thinking...but are pragmatism and ideology mutually exclusive?

Not necessarily. One can be a committed pacifist and still use arms to kill a threat to themselves or their loved ones.

 

[bripat9643]

Not so fast.

FAIL

A lot can change in 20 years.


"Christianity is an invention of sick brains," Adolf Hitler, 13 December 1941.

"So it's not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death," Adolf Hitler, 14 October 1941.

You should be able to source those. Most of these "anti-christians" quotes are hearsay. They were never spoken in public nor appear in Hitler's writings.

Prove it. For that matter, prove anything you've quoted is factual.

The fact remains that Pope Pius signed a treaty with Hitler. The fact remains that it's been Christian doctrine to eradicate other religions.

Hitler was a natural progression of this doctrine.

Hitler signed a non-aggression treaty with Stalin. Does that make him a communist?

As usual, you're arguments are logical fallacies.

 

[bripat9643]

Therein is your problem, seeking simple answers to complex issues is ridiculous (which characterizes most if not all of your posts).

First, define "central planners"; I suspect you have no idea.

Another leftist runs away like a scared little puppy.

You're not only stupid you're an asshole too.

ROFL! Now he's whining like a puppy that hasn't been fed.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Nonetheless, when talking about gay rights or abortion or prohibition or prayer-in-the-public-school-room or other pet ideas, the so-called freedom-loving right will use progressive right-wing statism to ram it down everyoine's throats.

Well, I see very few realize that progressive statism (communism, fascism, totalitarianism, authoritarianism) have right and left wings.

Hard to understand how the right wing wants anything like progressive statism if any form. Any kind of reduction in individual rights and liberties is antithetical to conservatism, really doesn't matter what form it may take. Typically a progressive statist regime requires a large bureaucracy, and a military/police force to keep it in power. It's true that the right in this country wants a stronger military, but not for the purpose of taking control of the gov't.

Some point to issues such as abortion or gay rights as an example where the right seems to oppose an individual's rights. One might say the right isn't perfect when it comes to holding true to their own ideals. One might also say the left isn't either, but that's a discussion for another thread. Even if today's RWers play fast and loose with thir own ideology for political reasons, that does not change the fact that in theory the righties are supposed to be for smaller, limited gov't with less power and less intervention.

 

[percysunshine]

Now for a soap commercial break in the action;

 

[bripat9643]

Now you're arguing that socialism doesn't mean socialism.

You're ignoring the Hilter quote I posted. He says himself that he's a socialist. Respond to that.

It does now - it did not in 1924.

Hitler was a "National Socialist", i.e. Nazi. Which is entirely its own concept.

All that does is distinguish it from the communist brand of socialism which claimed to be "international."

Read on...

Hitler had objected to the party's previous leader's decision to use the word "Socialist" in its name as Hitler at the time instead preferred to use "Social Revolutionary". Upon taking over the leadership, Hitler kept the term but defined "socialism" as meaning a commitment of an individual to a community.

You haven't proved a thing. All you've done is regurgitate the pet theories of Marxist professors - Marxist propaganda, in other words.

Hitler also claimed that unconditional equality of opportunity for all "racially sound" Aryan males was the essence of the "Socialism" of "National Socialism".

How does that view conflict with being a socialist? All the socialists in this country claim to believe in equal opportunity.

National Socialism (common English short form Nazism, German: Nationalsozialismus) was the ideology of the Nazi Party and Nazi Germany. It is a variety of fascism that incorporates biological racism and antisemitism. Nazism used elements of the far-right racist Völkisch German nationalist movement and the anti-communist Freikorps paramilitary culture which fought against the communists in post-World War I Germany. It was designed to draw workers away from communism and into Völkisch nationalism. Major elements of Nazism have been described as far-right, such as allowing domination of society by people deemed racially superior, while purging society of people declared inferior which were said to be a threat to national survival.

Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There's nothing inherently right-wing about racism. In fact, before the war all the left-wing leaders were racists. Wilson was a racism who instituted segregation in the U.S. military and endorse eugenics for inferior people like Negroes. FDR was also a bigot. He put Japanese Americans in concentration camps. It was only after the war that racism fell into disfavor with the left.

Your post is another colossal fail.

 

[bripat9643]

Bripat -

I disagree - I think an awful lot has been proven on this thread.

I really hadn't expected the thread would get a lot of replies, given the basis for it is such everyday common knowledge, but it's been quite an eye opener.

I would have posted Hitler's quotes in the beginning had I realised so many posters weren't up to speed on this, but next time I won't overestimate the forums' education!

A truly amazing thread.

You're ignoring the Hilter quote I posted. He says himself that he's a socialist. Respond to that.

Hitler was no more honest than American politicians, so I would not take his quotes as indictative of much. Hitler's quotes probably changed as he gained power. His socialism thing was part of that gaining power, but once he is the master of his realm, goodby socialists.
Might try some histories of the Third Reich or even books on political ideologies.

There are still people that believe Truman was a Republican.

If you can't believe what Hitler says, then what can you believe? Apparently we are supposed to believe that a gang of Marxist professors knew what Hitler believed better than he himself.

You guys are a million laughs.

 

[bripat9643]

Hitler killed socialists and communists.

So did Stalin and Mao

Hitler did it to eradicate communism and socialism.

Stalin and Mao did it to get rid of enemies in the party.

That's the same reason Hitler did. Your argument is a colossal fail. You're begging the question. You claimed the fact that Hitler killed socialists is proof that he wasn't a socialist. Then when it's pointed out that other socialists also killed socialist, you claim Hitler did it because he wasn't a socialist.

Logical fallacies don't prove a thing.

 

[JakeStarkey]

If one ever wants to understand the failed morality and philosophy of libertarianism, read bripat.

 

[bripat9643]

There's nothing more common than socialists who lie about what they are doing. Socialism is government control over the means of production. The claim that Mussolini didn't try to control the means of production in Italy doesn't pass the laugh test. He just did it without outright expropriation, just like the American Democrats are trying to do.

When Hitler says he's a socialist, you claim he's lying, but when Mussolini says he's not a socialist, you insist we are supposed to take his claims at face value.

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter what politicians say. We only have to look at what they do. Any objective economic assessment indicates fascism is a form of socialism.

End of story.

Being against Communism doesn't mean you aren't a socialist. That argument has already been debunked.

You have to laugh don't you...!

We now have Bripat disagreeing with Franco, Hitler and Mussolini over what fascism means.

Again, Mussolini says:


"Socialism is a fraud, a comedy, a phantom, a blackmail."

"Fascism is a religion. The twentieth century will be known in history as the century of Fascism."

"Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power."

"The Liberal State is a mask behind which there is no face; it is a scaffolding behind which there is no building."

Read more at Benito Mussolini Quotes - BrainyQuote

 

[JakeStarkey]

he's cute when he throws a tantrum

There's nothing more common than socialists who lie about what they are doing. Socialism is government control over the means of production. The claim that Mussolini didn't try to control the means of production in Italy doesn't pass the laugh test. He just did it without outright expropriation, just like the American Democrats are trying to do.

When Hitler says he's a socialist, you claim he's lying, but when Mussolini says he's not a socialist, you insist we are supposed to take his claims at face value.

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter what politicians say. We only have to look at what they do. Any objective economic assessment indicates fascism is a form of socialism.

End of story.

Being against Communism doesn't mean you aren't a socialist. That argument has already been debunked.

You have to laugh don't you...!

We now have Bripat disagreeing with Franco, Hitler and Mussolini over what fascism means.

Again, Mussolini says:


"Socialism is a fraud, a comedy, a phantom, a blackmail."

"Fascism is a religion. The twentieth century will be known in history as the century of Fascism."

"Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power."

"The Liberal State is a mask behind which there is no face; it is a scaffolding behind which there is no building."

Read more at Benito Mussolini Quotes - BrainyQuote

 

[percysunshine]

Utopians Unite!

Social engineers are second class.

 

[bripat9643]

The unrepresented part simply represented as 'anarchy' is where we find American conservatism.

This may be about the stupidest statement on this thread yet - and there are a few contenders.

Really, Sniper, you have absolutely no idea about politics whatsoever, have you?

He understand politics quite well. Your horseshoe analogy is a scam, a fraud. It's propaganda.

btw. Central planning is prominent in quite a number of extreme right wing societies. Stroessner, Pinochet, Franco, Antonescu...it just isn't at issue here. It just is not a feature of Conservatism or more moderate right wing ideologies. I don't dodge points, but sometimes ignore things I imagine you could figure out yourself if you could use Google.

ROFL! Pinochet didn't engage in central planning. The others are not "right-wing." They are left-wing. It appears that Sniper understands politics a lot better than you do.

You know who did engage in central planning? Wilson, FDR, Johnson, Carter and Obama.

 

[bripat9643]

I've seen this argued a million times. You can't even define true conservatism so how can compare it fascism?

Conservatism is difficult to define exactly, but we all know where it sits on the spectrum.

Wrong. You obviously don't know it. Whenever someone says "everyone knows 'A' is a fact, that means 'A' is not a fact.

It is always in an arc between Centrism and the Right Wing, and usually quite moderate.

It's not often we hear a term like "extreme conservatism" used, as we usually think of conservatism as being more mainstream than harsher "right wing" parties.

Liberal Democrats use the term all the time. Chucky Schumer was recorded telling other Democrats that they should brand everything Conservatives supported as "extreme."