FDR's Lend-Lease....or Stalin's?

[Moonglow]

Sometime allies are evil but serve a purpose.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Japan attacked 151,000 Americans and Filipinos stationed in the Philippines. Think Bataan and Corregidor. The 200 modern fighters originally meant for Singapore would have been there...but were in Russia.

how could the US supply the Philippines with an over powering Japanese navy?

Air power.

200 modern fighters that were meant to be there, were re-routed by FDR's orders, to Stalin.

 

[Moonglow]

Japan attacked 151,000 Americans and Filipinos stationed in the Philippines. Think Bataan and Corregidor. The 200 modern fighters originally meant for Singapore would have been there...but were in Russia.

how could the US supply the Philippines with an over powering Japanese navy?

Air power.

200 modern fighters that were meant to be there, were re-routed by FDR's orders, to Stalin.

How do you get them across the ocean, flying them amongst a very strong Japanese land and fleet based air force?
You see at the time we had only a small navy after Pearl Harbor and the area you claim to need them was in Japanese controlled waters. Should we have flown them from Russia?
The priority of the allies was to concentrate on Europe first, Japan secondly.

 

[Bfgrn]

Hey, comrade PC...

How Stalin Funded the Tea Party Movement

“I would rather live under a bridge than live under socialism”

—tea bagger slogan



Everyone knows that Tea Party revolutionaries fear and hate socialism about as much as the Antichrist. Which is funny, because the Tea Party movement’s dirty little secret is that it owes its existence to the grandaddy of all Antichrists: the godless empire of the USSR.

What few realize is that the secretive oil billionaires of the Koch family, the main supporters of the right-wing groups that orchestrated the Tea Party movement, would not have the means to bankroll their favorite causes had it not been for the pile of money the family made working for the Bolsheviks in the late 1920s and early 1930s, building refineries, training Communist engineers and laying down the foundation of Soviet oil infrastructure.

The comrades were good to the Kochs. Today Koch Industries has grown into the second-largest private company in America. With an annual revenue of $100 billion, the company was just $6.3 billion shy of first place in 2008. Ownership is kept strictly in the family, with the company being split roughly between right-wing brothers Charles and David Koch, who are worth about $20 billion apiece and are infamous as the largest sponsors of right-wing causes. They bankroll scores of free-market and libertarian think tanks, institutes and advocacy groups. Reason magazine, Heritage Foundation and Cato Institute are just a few of Koch-backed free-market operations. Greenpeace estimates that the Koch family shelled out $25 million from 2005 to 2008 funding the “climate denial machine,” which means they outspent Exxon Mobile three to one.

But the Tea Party movement—and Koch family’s obscene wealth—go back more than half a century, all the way to grandpa Fredrick C. Koch, one of the founding members of the far-rightwing John Birch Society which was convinced that evil socialism was taking over America through unions, colored people, Jews, homosexuals, the Kennedys and even Dwight D. Eisenhower.

Koch lived up to the slogan: “Work hard enough for Comrade Stalin to thank you!”

more for comrade PC...

 

[LA RAM FAN]

4. I challenge FDR apologists to explain government largesse to Soviet Russia, even superseding Allied, or even American military needs.
Or American civilian needs: 217,660,666 pounds of butter shipped to the USSR during a time of strict state-side rationing.
John R. Deane, "The Strange Alliance: The Story of Our Efforts at Wartime Cooperation With Russia," p.94-95.


So.....you don't want to take the challenge, reggie?

So what's the challenge,.

How about to address the very specific points raised by Political Chick instead of avoiding them in favor of sloppy, moist, hero-worship of the worst scumbag ever to soil the office of President of the United States?

Indeed.someone here is indeed hero worshipping and avoiding facts.

worst at the time anyways,Not ever.every president since him with the exception of Kennedy and Carter has been worse than the previous one.

one more point about that bastard FDR that needs to be mentioned that was left out as well is how he withheld intelligence from the admiral fleet and knew japan would attack them and did not tell the navy commanders of the impending strike.

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=408

 

[regent]

Japan attacked 151,000 Americans and Filipinos stationed in the Philippines. Think Bataan and Corregidor. The 200 modern fighters originally meant for Singapore would have been there...but were in Russia.

how could the US supply the Philippines with an over powering Japanese navy?

Air power.

200 modern fighters that were meant to be there, were re-routed by FDR's orders, to Stalin.

The Field Marshall was not ready for war in December, he had predicted April so MacArthur wasn't quite ready, in fact, MacArthur learned of Pearl Harbor over commercial radio. The navy in Manila didn't tell Doug.
The air power MacArthur had, was of course not sufficient, thanks to the Republican Congress that fought FDR on rearming America. When the air force suggested that Formosa be bombed MacArthur stalled but the Japanese did not, and they caught Mac's air force on the ground and destroyed half of it. Had those 200 modern fighters been there half would have been lost in that raid.
If Stalin did get those 200 modern fighters, and P39's were not top of the line, I hope the Russians used them to destroy Germans.

 

[regent]

So what's the challenge,.

How about to address the very specific points raised by Political Chick instead of avoiding them in favor of sloppy, moist, hero-worship of the worst scumbag ever to soil the office of President of the United States?

Indeed.someone here is indeed hero worshipping and avoiding facts.

worst at the time anyways,Not ever.every president since him with the exception of Kennedy and Carter has been worse than the previous one.

one more point about that bastard FDR that needs to be mentioned that was left out as well is how he withheld intelligence from the admiral fleet and knew japan would attack them and did not tell the navy commanders of the impending strike.

Do Freedom of Information Act Files Prove FDR Had Foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor?: Newsroom: The Independent Institute

How many times has the Congress investigated Pearl Harbor, and nothing. Have you told the historians, the Congress, the Tea Party, the Republican Party, about the historical information that you have and your opinion that FDR was a bad president, seems they might be very interested in your historical facts?

 

[hoosier88]

...

...

Was macht Sie glauben, ich spreche kein Deutsch?

"FDR sent every scrap of aid he could get to the USSR because they were killing Nazis."

You really haven't addressed the point.

Unless your argument is that the Russians were dropping bathtubs and pianos on the Nazis, and hardening their arteries with Paula Deen-butter laden dishes.....

Here's that partial list again....

2. Another case was Lend-Lease: supplies didn't just "flow" to the Soviet Union, they flooded it, including non-military supplies: a tire plant, an oil refinery, pipe-fabricating works, over a million miles of copper wire, switchboard-panels, lathes and power tools, textile machinery, woodworking, typesetting, cranes hoists, derricks, air compressors, $152 million in women's 'dress goods,' 18.4 million pounds of writing paper, cigarette cases, jeweled watches, lipstick, liquor, bathtubs, and pianos.
West, "American Betrayal," chapter two.

3. George Kennan wrote: "there is no adequate justification for continuing a program of lavish and almost indiscriminate aid to the Soviet Union at a time when there was increasing reason to doubt whether her purposes in Eastern Europe, aside from the defeat of Germany, would be ones which we Americans could approve and sponsor." George C. Herring, "Aid to Russia," p. xvii.

4. I challenge FDR apologists to explain government largesse to Soviet Russia, even superseding Allied, or even American military needs.
Or American civilian needs: 217,660,666 pounds of butter shipped to the USSR during a time of strict state-side rationing.
John R. Deane, "The Strange Alliance: The Story of Our Efforts at Wartime Cooperation With Russia," p.94-95.

And, pay special attention to the hearing Congress held on the atomic materials sent....

Need I spell out what the subtext is?

(My bold)

The point is - in war, you need to kill your enemies. McArthur in Philippines, Brits in Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, French in Indochina, Dutch in Surinam (was it?) & the allies in all points in Southern Pacific were being driven into the water or inland, cut up & cut off, killed or taken prisoner. The USSR was killing Nazis. That's all there was to it.

The Nazis & USSR had butchered Poland between them, & the USSR got to take over the Baltic States. Once it was convenient, the Nazis attacked the USSR. We needed the USSR in the war, certainly the US nor UK, nor the Allies could single-handedly take the massive military & civilian casualties, the massive destruction of goods, plants, denied access to crops & raw materials - that the USSR did & managed to keep on fighting.

It's the same reason we backed the Communists in China over the G'mo - the G'mo sat around a lot & saved his forces & materiel to fight the continuation of the civil war, after WWII was somehow won for him. The Communist Chinese forces fought & fought & fought the Japanese.

Why would we sent atomic materials to the USSR? They weren't going to do anything with such materials, even if we had sent them. But I'll bite: What atomic materials? What did we send to the USSR?

 

[PoliticalChic]

...

Was macht Sie glauben, ich spreche kein Deutsch?

"FDR sent every scrap of aid he could get to the USSR because they were killing Nazis."

You really haven't addressed the point.

Unless your argument is that the Russians were dropping bathtubs and pianos on the Nazis, and hardening their arteries with Paula Deen-butter laden dishes.....

Here's that partial list again....

2. Another case was Lend-Lease: supplies didn't just "flow" to the Soviet Union, they flooded it, including non-military supplies: a tire plant, an oil refinery, pipe-fabricating works, over a million miles of copper wire, switchboard-panels, lathes and power tools, textile machinery, woodworking, typesetting, cranes hoists, derricks, air compressors, $152 million in women's 'dress goods,' 18.4 million pounds of writing paper, cigarette cases, jeweled watches, lipstick, liquor, bathtubs, and pianos.
West, "American Betrayal," chapter two.

3. George Kennan wrote: "there is no adequate justification for continuing a program of lavish and almost indiscriminate aid to the Soviet Union at a time when there was increasing reason to doubt whether her purposes in Eastern Europe, aside from the defeat of Germany, would be ones which we Americans could approve and sponsor." George C. Herring, "Aid to Russia," p. xvii.

4. I challenge FDR apologists to explain government largesse to Soviet Russia, even superseding Allied, or even American military needs.
Or American civilian needs: 217,660,666 pounds of butter shipped to the USSR during a time of strict state-side rationing.
John R. Deane, "The Strange Alliance: The Story of Our Efforts at Wartime Cooperation With Russia," p.94-95.

And, pay special attention to the hearing Congress held on the atomic materials sent....

Need I spell out what the subtext is?

(My bold)

The point is - in war, you need to kill your enemies. McArthur in Philippines, Brits in Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, French in Indochina, Dutch in Surinam (was it?) & the allies in all points in Southern Pacific were being driven into the water or inland, cut up & cut off, killed or taken prisoner. The USSR was killing Nazis. That's all there was to it.

The Nazis & USSR had butchered Poland between them, & the USSR got to take over the Baltic States. Once it was convenient, the Nazis attacked the USSR. We needed the USSR in the war, certainly the US nor UK, nor the Allies could single-handedly take the massive military & civilian casualties, the massive destruction of goods, plants, denied access to crops & raw materials - that the USSR did & managed to keep on fighting.

It's the same reason we backed the Communists in China over the G'mo - the G'mo sat around a lot & saved his forces & materiel to fight the continuation of the civil war, after WWII was somehow won for him. The Communist Chinese forces fought & fought & fought the Japanese.

Why would we sent atomic materials to the USSR? They weren't going to do anything with such materials, even if we had sent them. But I'll bite: What atomic materials? What did we send to the USSR?

" That's all there was to it."


Not much of an explanation of the specifics in the OP/posts.

How's this: why don't you just say that it sure looks like FDR was taking orders from his Uncle Joe.

 

[hoosier88]

...

...

" That's all there was to it."

Not much of an explanation of the specifics in the OP/posts.

How's this: why don't you just say that it sure looks like FDR was taking orders from his Uncle Joe.

(My bold)

Stalin/the USSR was killing Nazis. They were losing horrendously, trading space & lives for time to reform & reorganize. But they were holding on, & bleeding the Nazis for every foot of ground they took.

FDR was an educated person, not some trifling B-grade actor who switched parties, ditched his wife, headed up SAG, then denounced unions, talked up Evangelical issues (without actually doing anything for them), then taking up astrology, fer crying out loud. He appointed his campaign manager to DCIA, who promptly embroiled us in backing the mujahadeen in Afghanistan big time (routing money, supplies, political capital through Pakistan, who skimmed off a lot for their trouble, to destroy their own internal national economy & politics, & to build up their network of proteges, the Pakistani-leaning mujahids, & to build their own nuke infrastructure).

FDR picked people who were effective, & if they weren't, he got rid of them & tried again. When we needed a hero, he slapped lipstick & the MOH on McArthur & trotted him out for the press. Same for the B-24 carrier raid on Tokyo - not much of a military threat, but it punctured the illusion of invulnerability that the IJN had cultivated over the decades.

WWII was an ugly business all around, & McArthur played his part, after getting over his initial poor planning & funk @ the actual invasion. We needed the USSR in the war, & if getting more supplies to them resulted in fewer Germans to fight on the Western Front, FDR considered it a fair trade. & so he turned on the spigot & never turned it off, until he died in his traces.

He knew perfectly well that Stalin would have shot all the patricians he could get his hands on. No matter, Stalin needed arms, ammo, food, transport. We supplied them, & gladly. We had a war to win.

The specifics you mention remind me of a chihuahua yapping @ my ankles. Unless he actually bites, it's all show.

 

[PoliticalChic]

...

" That's all there was to it."

Not much of an explanation of the specifics in the OP/posts.

How's this: why don't you just say that it sure looks like FDR was taking orders from his Uncle Joe.

(My bold)

Stalin/the USSR was killing Nazis. They were losing horrendously, trading space & lives for time to reform & reorganize. But they were holding on, & bleeding the Nazis for every foot of ground they took.

FDR was an educated person, not some trifling B-grade actor who switched parties, ditched his wife, headed up SAG, then denounced unions, talked up Evangelical issues (without actually doing anything for them), then taking up astrology, fer crying out loud. He appointed his campaign manager to DCIA, who promptly embroiled us in backing the mujahadeen in Afghanistan big time (routing money, supplies, political capital through Pakistan, who skimmed off a lot for their trouble, to destroy their own internal national economy & politics, & to build up their network of proteges, the Pakistani-leaning mujahids, & to build their own nuke infrastructure).

FDR picked people who were effective, & if they weren't, he got rid of them & tried again. When we needed a hero, he slapped lipstick & the MOH on McArthur & trotted him out for the press. Same for the B-24 carrier raid on Tokyo - not much of a military threat, but it punctured the illusion of invulnerability that the IJN had cultivated over the decades.

WWII was an ugly business all around, & McArthur played his part, after getting over his initial poor planning & funk @ the actual invasion. We needed the USSR in the war, & if getting more supplies to them resulted in fewer Germans to fight on the Western Front, FDR considered it a fair trade. & so he turned on the spigot & never turned it off, until he died in his traces.

He knew perfectly well that Stalin would have shot all the patricians he could get his hands on. No matter, Stalin needed arms, ammo, food, transport. We supplied them, & gladly. We had a war to win.

The specifics you mention remind me of a chihuahua yapping @ my ankles. Unless he actually bites, it's all show.

The truth will set you free.


The thread has made the case that FDR had an inordinate sensitivity, even obeisance, for the USSR and Stalin.

Your fear of that truth leads you to believe that an attack on the great man who saved the world from communism will, somehow, shield the man who enjoyed his empowering the 'evil empire.'


It doesn't.

It simply makes you look foolish.....transparently so,


1. The major player in the Alger Hiss saga was fellow Communist, Whitaker Chambers. In his book, "Witness," Chambers explains is disillusionment as follows.

In 1938, he determined not only to break with the Communist Party, but to inform on the Party when he could. The reason was that he was informed that Stalin was making efforts to align with Hitler, in 1939, and “from any human point of view, the pact was evil.”

As Hitler marched into Poland, Chambers arranged a private meeting with Adolf Berle, President Roosevelt’s assistant Sec’y of State. Chambers detailed the Communist espionage network, naming at least two dozen Soviet spies in Roosevelt’s administration, including Alger Hiss. Berle reported this to Roosevelt, who laughed, and told Berle to go f--- himself.
(Arthur Herman, Joseph McCarthy: Reexaming the Life and Legacy of America’s Most Hated Senator, p. 60)

2. No action was taken, and in fact, Roosevelt promoted Hiss.
Almost a decade later, Chambers was called before the HUAC and named Hiss as a Soviet agent. Hiss sued Chambers, at which time Chambers presented “… four notes in Alger Hiss's handwriting, sixty-five typewritten copies of State Department documents and five strips of microfilm, some of which contained photographs of State Department documents. The press came to call these the "Pumpkin Papers"(Whittaker Chambers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

3. And, of course, all doubt was removed in 1995, when the Venona Soviet cables were decrypted.


So....was Roosevelt stupid?

Or, a dupe with eyes wide shut?



BTW....do you know about anti-communist Democrat Martin Dies?

He began the HUAC hearings.

I believe I'll write an OP about how FDR worked to shut down those hearings.


Fell free to write another hagiographic post about your hero....
You set 'em up, I'll knock 'em down.

 

[regent]

Do Americans today realize how important it was for the US and Britain to keep the Soviet Union alive and fighting the Germans?
Perhaps another way to look at Lend Lease is that until DDAY the Britain and the US were using the USSR to fight Germany. Wonder if Stalin was upset when the allies invaded Africa rather than Europe? Could the US and Britain have defeated Germany without the USSR, and if so at what cost?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Do Americans today realize how important it was for the US and Britain to keep the Soviet Union alive and fighting the Germans?
Perhaps another way to look at Lend Lease is that until DDAY the Britain and the US were using the USSR to fight Germany. Wonder if Stalin was upset when the allies invaded Africa rather than Europe? Could the US and Britain have defeated Germany without the USSR, and if so at what cost?

You can run, but you can't hide.



"Major George Lacey Jordan started a diary in 1942 when, as liaison to Soviet officials receiving materiel via lend-lease, he grew suspicious about the nature of these airborne shipments from the US over the Arctic to the USSR.

Stationed at Great Falls, Montana, Major Jordan documented evidence that Americans high up within the FDR administration were providing the USSR with the raw materials, technology, equipment, and know-how to make atomic bombs. And this at a time when our own were still under development in supposed secrecy.

As catalogued in the diaries, all the materiel required for the creation of an atomic pile was transferred to the USSR as early as 1942. The materiel included ‘bomb powder’ (uranium oxide), graphite in numerous forms, cadmium, cobalt, thorium, and $13,000,000 worth of aluminum tubes."
Major Jordan’s Diaries – How Lend-Lease diverted Atomic Materials to the USSR - Historum - History Forums



C'mon, reggie.....don't you find that just a little....interesting?


Explanation?

 

[hoosier88]

...

You can run, but you can't hide.

"Major George Lacey Jordan started a diary in 1942 when, as liaison to Soviet officials receiving materiel via lend-lease, he grew suspicious about the nature of these airborne shipments from the US over the Arctic to the USSR.

Stationed at Great Falls, Montana, Major Jordan documented evidence that Americans high up within the FDR administration were providing the USSR with the raw materials, technology, equipment, and know-how to make atomic bombs. And this at a time when our own were still under development in supposed secrecy.

As catalogued in the diaries, all the materiel required for the creation of an atomic pile was transferred to the USSR as early as 1942. The materiel included ‘bomb powder’ (uranium oxide), graphite in numerous forms, cadmium, cobalt, thorium, and $13,000,000 worth of aluminum tubes."
Major Jordan’s Diaries – How Lend-Lease diverted Atomic Materials to the USSR - Historum - History Forums

C'mon, reggie.....don't you find that just a little....interesting?

Explanation?

(My bold)

Nah, if you actually read the historum site - under "lend lease ussr nuclear material" you'll see calculations that the amount of uranium transferred couldn't possibly have been enough for a nuke pile. The amount of weapons-grade fissile U can't have been enough to construct a nuke device, not even assuming 100% efficiency in refining.

 

[whitehall]

FDR was very chummy with "uncle Joe" as he called Stalin often at the expense of his relationship with Churchill. FDR was a very sick man when democrats lied to the American people as they ran the near corpse for his 4th term. Stalin was in his prime and ran circles around FDR during critical meetings before the end of the war. It set the stage for the Iron Curtain.

 

[Unkotare]

So what's the challenge,.

How about to address the very specific points raised by Political Chick instead of avoiding them in favor of sloppy, moist, hero-worship of the worst scumbag ever to soil the office of President of the United States?

Indeed.someone here is indeed hero worshipping and avoiding facts.

worst at the time anyways,Not ever.every president since him with the exception of Kennedy and Carter has been worse than the previous one.]

None have ever been as bad as FDR.

 

[Unkotare]

It's the same reason we backed the Communists in China over the G'mo - the G'mo sat around a lot & saved his forces & materiel to fight the continuation of the civil war, after WWII was somehow won for him. The Communist Chinese forces fought & fought & fought the Japanese.

The Communists and the Nationalists both fought each other as much as they did the Japanese (despite a supposed truce). This is one reason why so much of China was taken and held with such relative speed and ease. And both sought to position themselves to the greatest advantage at the war's end. Mao planned on this if anything more so than did Chiang Kai-Shek.

 

[regent]

Do Americans today realize how important it was for the US and Britain to keep the Soviet Union alive and fighting the Germans?
Perhaps another way to look at Lend Lease is that until DDAY the Britain and the US were using the USSR to fight Germany. Wonder if Stalin was upset when the allies invaded Africa rather than Europe? Could the US and Britain have defeated Germany without the USSR, and if so at what cost?

You can run, but you can't hide.



"Major George Lacey Jordan started a diary in 1942 when, as liaison to Soviet officials receiving materiel via lend-lease, he grew suspicious about the nature of these airborne shipments from the US over the Arctic to the USSR.

Stationed at Great Falls, Montana, Major Jordan documented evidence that Americans high up within the FDR administration were providing the USSR with the raw materials, technology, equipment, and know-how to make atomic bombs. And this at a time when our own were still under development in supposed secrecy.

As catalogued in the diaries, all the materiel required for the creation of an atomic pile was transferred to the USSR as early as 1942. The materiel included ‘bomb powder’ (uranium oxide), graphite in numerous forms, cadmium, cobalt, thorium, and $13,000,000 worth of aluminum tubes."
Major Jordan’s Diaries – How Lend-Lease diverted Atomic Materials to the USSR - Historum - History Forums



C'mon, reggie.....don't you find that just a little....interesting?


Explanation?

I'll wait till the movie comes out. If there was any real substance to these charges beyond the evidence offered I would be more concerned. I think some of us accept the fact that the USSR had spies in the US, and I accept the premise that we had and have spies in other nations as well, it's part of the game. How many foreign spies are in our government today and how many do we know about and track? With all its spies the USSR is now gone, Hitler is gone, and many other sources of spies are gone, and we're still here. Maybe our spies are better?
It's our politicians that I fear more than spies; politicians that take us to war based on misinformation, information that supposedly came from our spies. Think of the damage our own spies could do if they lied like politicians.

 

[PoliticalChic]

...

You can run, but you can't hide.

"Major George Lacey Jordan started a diary in 1942 when, as liaison to Soviet officials receiving materiel via lend-lease, he grew suspicious about the nature of these airborne shipments from the US over the Arctic to the USSR.

Stationed at Great Falls, Montana, Major Jordan documented evidence that Americans high up within the FDR administration were providing the USSR with the raw materials, technology, equipment, and know-how to make atomic bombs. And this at a time when our own were still under development in supposed secrecy.

As catalogued in the diaries, all the materiel required for the creation of an atomic pile was transferred to the USSR as early as 1942. The materiel included ‘bomb powder’ (uranium oxide), graphite in numerous forms, cadmium, cobalt, thorium, and $13,000,000 worth of aluminum tubes."
Major Jordan’s Diaries – How Lend-Lease diverted Atomic Materials to the USSR - Historum - History Forums

C'mon, reggie.....don't you find that just a little....interesting?

Explanation?

(My bold)

Nah, if you actually read the historum site - under "lend lease ussr nuclear material" you'll see calculations that the amount of uranium transferred couldn't possibly have been enough for a nuke pile. The amount of weapons-grade fissile U can't have been enough to construct a nuke device, not even assuming 100% efficiency in refining.

That isn't the point, is it.

And, I did read all of it.
And more.


No...the point is two fold:
1.As the thread indicates,there is more to FDR's relationship with the USSR/Stalin than you apologists allow.

2. Intelligent people such as you and reggie are unable to break free of your childish worship, and address the real questions of history and politics.





I hope you will continue to read posts of mine that reveal links of FDR's to.....let's call it 'the unknown until now.'

You may comment or not, as you wish.

 

[regent]

You can run, but you can't hide.

"Major George Lacey Jordan started a diary in 1942 when, as liaison to Soviet officials receiving materiel via lend-lease, he grew suspicious about the nature of these airborne shipments from the US over the Arctic to the USSR.

Stationed at Great Falls, Montana, Major Jordan documented evidence that Americans high up within the FDR administration were providing the USSR with the raw materials, technology, equipment, and know-how to make atomic bombs. And this at a time when our own were still under development in supposed secrecy.

As catalogued in the diaries, all the materiel required for the creation of an atomic pile was transferred to the USSR as early as 1942. The materiel included ‘bomb powder’ (uranium oxide), graphite in numerous forms, cadmium, cobalt, thorium, and $13,000,000 worth of aluminum tubes."
Major Jordan’s Diaries – How Lend-Lease diverted Atomic Materials to the USSR - Historum - History Forums

C'mon, reggie.....don't you find that just a little....interesting?

Explanation?

(My bold)

Nah, if you actually read the historum site - under "lend lease ussr nuclear material" you'll see calculations that the amount of uranium transferred couldn't possibly have been enough for a nuke pile. The amount of weapons-grade fissile U can't have been enough to construct a nuke device, not even assuming 100% efficiency in refining.

That isn't the point, is it.

And, I did read all of it.
And more.


No...the point is two fold:
1.As the thread indicates,there is more to FDR's relationship with the USSR/Stalin than you apologists allow.

2. Intelligent people such as you and reggie are unable to break free of your childish worship, and address the real questions of history and politics.





I hope you will continue to read posts of mine that reveal links of FDR's to.....let's call it 'the unknown until now.'

You may comment or not, as you wish.

All those historians with that same childish worship, how do we account for that? How do we account for the American people's childish worship? How do we account for the years of Republican attempts to destroy that childish worship? So many attempts to undo that childish worship and it's still there, and worse, over time, it's no longer considered childish.
Oppenheimer and the others knew it would only be a matter of time until others built the bomb and the bigger question was should we use it on people or what?
And of Lend Lease, America sent factories to the USSR along with the butter and some day an author will discover that and out will come a book explaining how we dismantled General Motors and sent it to the USSR under the guise of Lend Lease.
Thousands of mistakes were made in WWII from bad decisions by PFC's to the president.