Federal Jury convicts "annoyed bully" cop for beating man.

[SavannahMann]

I believe we are finally getting to the root of your feelings. It has taken a while. You believe that the physical beating is part of the punishment process. You think that the extrajudicial beatings are vital to this process. And you think that without these extrajudicial beatings and killings that people who think like you do will resort to vigilante justice.

I'll grant you this. You might want to. But I just don't see it catching on. After Bronson made the Death Wish movies the panicky people worried that this glorification of vigilante justice would encourage more of it. It never happened. Those who think as you do might fantasize about it, but they don't actually do it.

So go on and go back to watching your Gold Box edition of the Death Wish series.

I have long understood that Pain and Fear are the only truly useful forces in changing human behavior. With that in mind, real Justice must include one, or preferably both of those components. Without either, you have nothing more than Legal consequences. If the Government can't or won't do that, it is Society's place to do so.

I decided to give you a serious answer. Because you put this out seriously. The situation you describe of pain and fear of authority is a system of Government. It is not one where freedom or liberty flourish or even exist.

It is the tanks rolling over protestors in Tianiman Square. It is the Soviet Army going in to put down the Hungarian Revolution. It is the reeducation camps of Pol Pot. It is the thugs and soldiers in Venezuela today.

I used the term Extrajudicial to describe the beatings you are so fond of. That word was accurate. It is one principle you apparently embrace.

If you have that kind of Government. One where pain and fear are the motivation to keep people in line, what inevitably happens? What has always happened? First you don't change human behavior. You create the illusion of obedience. The Soviet workers had a joke. As long as they pretend to pay us, we will pretend to work. You end up with people going through the motions. You end up with Venezuela. The one thing you can be sure of is you will not end up with a nation of patriots.

You do end up with a population that you dare not turn your back on.

 

[Anathema]

Ride on there Charles Bronson. Rage at the jury when they convict you.

Im actually not a big Charles Bronson fan. Never really my cup of tea.

Besides, the police would have to take ne alive to ever see a jury.

 

[Anathema]

The situation you describe of pain and fear of authority is a system of Government. It is not one where freedom or liberty flourish or even exist.

Not all of us see Freedom or Liberty as the main points of Society. Personally, Morality and Propriety should be the main driving forces of Society as I see it. Freedom and Liberty would exist as Privileges for those who have proven thenselves worthy in such a Society.

It is the tanks rolling over protestors in Tianiman Square. It is the Soviet Army going in to put down the Hungarian Revolution. It is the reeducation camps of Pol Pot. It is the thugs and soldiers in Venezuela today.

No, it is not. Anyone who wants to leave America because they don't agree with the Morals, Principals and Values this nation waz founded on is able to. In thise cases they aren't or weren't able to just leave.

I used the term Extrajudicial to describe the beatings you are so fond of. That word was accurate. It is one principle you apparently embrace.

I embrace it because the Judicial system no longer has any interest in Justice. The concept has been replaced by Legal Bureaucracy, which favors the criminals over the victims.

I would love to see us go back to things like Alcatraz and the Death Penalty as the basis of our Judicial System. Until then, someone has to do something.

If you have that kind of Government. One where pain and fear are the motivation to keep people in line, what inevitably happens? What has always happened? First you don't change human behavior. You create the illusion of obedience....... The one thing you can be sure of is you will not end up with a nation of patriots.

You do end up with a population that you dare not turn your back on.

I disagree. My personal prefdrence would be to redoins this nation as one of Morals and Values, gjvjng those who disagree the opportunity to leave in a cdrtajn period of time. After that period, if youre still here, you're expected to get with the program or suffer ttbe consequences.

 

[SavannahMann]

The situation you describe of pain and fear of authority is a system of Government. It is not one where freedom or liberty flourish or even exist.

Not all of us see Freedom or Liberty as the main points of Society. Personally, Morality and Propriety should be the main driving forces of Society as I see it. Freedom and Liberty would exist as Privileges for those who have proven thenselves worthy in such a Society.

It is the tanks rolling over protestors in Tianiman Square. It is the Soviet Army going in to put down the Hungarian Revolution. It is the reeducation camps of Pol Pot. It is the thugs and soldiers in Venezuela today.

No, it is not. Anyone who wants to leave America because they don't agree with the Morals, Principals and Values this nation waz founded on is able to. In thise cases they aren't or weren't able to just leave.

I used the term Extrajudicial to describe the beatings you are so fond of. That word was accurate. It is one principle you apparently embrace.

I embrace it because the Judicial system no longer has any interest in Justice. The concept has been replaced by Legal Bureaucracy, which favors the criminals over the victims.

I would love to see us go back to things like Alcatraz and the Death Penalty as the basis of our Judicial System. Until then, someone has to do something.

If you have that kind of Government. One where pain and fear are the motivation to keep people in line, what inevitably happens? What has always happened? First you don't change human behavior. You create the illusion of obedience....... The one thing you can be sure of is you will not end up with a nation of patriots.

You do end up with a population that you dare not turn your back on.

I disagree. My personal prefdrence would be to redoins this nation as one of Morals and Values, gjvjng those who disagree the opportunity to leave in a cdrtajn period of time. After that period, if youre still here, you're expected to get with the program or suffer ttbe consequences.

It is the totalitarian nonsense that is failing everywhere and has failed every time it has been tried. The excuses are always the same. They always fail.

Freedom and Liberty is why this particular nation was founded. It is why those malcontents wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. youbdont have to have everyone else leave your nation. There are a couple places you can go where your dream of obedience is even now circling the drain. North Korea and Venezuela are at the top of the list. I think North Korea would probably be best. You probably have a couple years before starvation hits the country again.

So you see. We don't need to abandon the country so you can sit and rule the continent. The dream location already exists.

I've taken the liberty of planning your itinerary as an example. I presume you have to contact the Goverbments involved like China and the Glorious Democratic People's Republic of Korea. While you are waiting for permission to go from the NK Government you probably have time to learn Korean.

NYC to DDG Flights | Orbitz

As far as your dream to turn America into some pale imitation of NK then I will say this and I believe I speak for a vast majority of your fellow citizens. No.

 

[SavannahMann]

Ride on there Charles Bronson. Rage at the jury when they convict you.

Im actually not a big Charles Bronson fan. Never really my cup of tea.

Besides, the police would have to take ne alive to ever see a jury.

Wait. You would refuse and resist the authority figures? My God what kind of malcontent are you?

 

[Jarlaxle]

I believe we are finally getting to the root of your feelings. It has taken a while. You believe that the physical beating is part of the punishment process. You think that the extrajudicial beatings are vital to this process. And you think that without these extrajudicial beatings and killings that people who think like you do will resort to vigilante justice.

I'll grant you this. You might want to. But I just don't see it catching on. After Bronson made the Death Wish movies the panicky people worried that this glorification of vigilante justice would encourage more of it. It never happened. Those who think as you do might fantasize about it, but they don't actually do it.

So go on and go back to watching your Gold Box edition of the Death Wish series.

I have long understood that Pain and Fear are the only truly useful forces in changing human behavior. With that in mind, real Justice must include one, or preferably both of those components. Without either, you have nothing more than Legal consequences. If the Government can't or won't do that, it is Society's place to do so.

I decided to give you a serious answer. Because you put this out seriously. The situation you describe of pain and fear of authority is a system of Government. It is not one where freedom or liberty flourish or even exist.

It is the tanks rolling over protestors in Tianiman Square. It is the Soviet Army going in to put down the Hungarian Revolution. It is the reeducation camps of Pol Pot. It is the thugs and soldiers in Venezuela today.

I used the term Extrajudicial to describe the beatings you are so fond of. That word was accurate. It is one principle you apparently embrace.

If you have that kind of Government. One where pain and fear are the motivation to keep people in line, what inevitably happens? What has always happened? First you don't change human behavior. You create the illusion of obedience. The Soviet workers had a joke. As long as they pretend to pay us, we will pretend to work. You end up with people going through the motions. You end up with Venezuela. The one thing you can be sure of is you will not end up with a nation of patriots.

You do end up with a population that you dare not turn your back on.

Dude, give up...this nut is a full-on psycho who probably masturbates to thoughts of being Stalin.

 

[Anathema]

It is the totalitarian nonsense that is failing everywhere and has failed every time it has been tried. The excuses are always the same. They always fail.

Freedom and Liberty is why this particular nation was founded. It is why those malcontents wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. you dont have to have everyone else leave your nation. There are a couple places you can go where your dream of obedience is even now circling the drain. North Korea and Venezuela are at the top of the list......

As far as your dream to turn America into some pale imitation of NK then I will say this and I believe I speak for a vast majority of your fellow citizens. No.

Totalitarian regjmes fail because they go too far. Thats why I believe in Authoritarianism instead. The differences are mjnor but important

Thjs was never a Free nation. Nor was it intended to be. Ask women, blacks, and those who didn't own land. Unfortunately Mr Lincoln fucked everything up with his little war.

My preferences would be Saudi Arabia or Iran, but they have religous test for cituzenship which I cant pass.

 

[Anathema]

Wait. You would refuse and resist the authority figures? My God what kind of malcontent are you?

Resjstance of Immoral Government is a Virtue, not a Sin; but in fa t what I wojld more likely do is commit suicide rather than be taken into custody.

 

[bodecea]

Yes I know. You are one of those who think the cops can do no wrong.

They can do wrong, but very rarely, and it is never a mistake to punish the guilty to the fullest extent possible.

So cops are also the punishers to you?

 

[bodecea]

It is the totalitarian nonsense that is failing everywhere and has failed every time it has been tried. The excuses are always the same. They always fail.

Freedom and Liberty is why this particular nation was founded. It is why those malcontents wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. you dont have to have everyone else leave your nation. There are a couple places you can go where your dream of obedience is even now circling the drain. North Korea and Venezuela are at the top of the list......

As far as your dream to turn America into some pale imitation of NK then I will say this and I believe I speak for a vast majority of your fellow citizens. No.

Totalitarian regjmes fail because they go too far. Thats why I believe in Authoritarianism instead. The differences are mjnor but important

Thjs was never a Free nation. Nor was it intended to be. Ask women, blacks, and those who didn't own land. Unfortunately Mr Lincoln fucked everything up with his little war.

My preferences would be Saudi Arabia or Iran, but they have religous test for cituzenship which I cant pass.

Singapore is more to your liking.

 

[bodecea]

The situation you describe of pain and fear of authority is a system of Government. It is not one where freedom or liberty flourish or even exist.

Not all of us see Freedom or Liberty as the main points of Society. Personally, Morality and Propriety should be the main driving forces of Society as I see it. Freedom and Liberty would exist as Privileges for those who have proven thenselves worthy in such a Society.

It is the tanks rolling over protestors in Tianiman Square. It is the Soviet Army going in to put down the Hungarian Revolution. It is the reeducation camps of Pol Pot. It is the thugs and soldiers in Venezuela today.

No, it is not. Anyone who wants to leave America because they don't agree with the Morals, Principals and Values this nation waz founded on is able to. In thise cases they aren't or weren't able to just leave.

I used the term Extrajudicial to describe the beatings you are so fond of. That word was accurate. It is one principle you apparently embrace.

I embrace it because the Judicial system no longer has any interest in Justice. The concept has been replaced by Legal Bureaucracy, which favors the criminals over the victims.

I would love to see us go back to things like Alcatraz and the Death Penalty as the basis of our Judicial System. Until then, someone has to do something.

If you have that kind of Government. One where pain and fear are the motivation to keep people in line, what inevitably happens? What has always happened? First you don't change human behavior. You create the illusion of obedience....... The one thing you can be sure of is you will not end up with a nation of patriots.

You do end up with a population that you dare not turn your back on.

I disagree. My personal prefdrence would be to redoins this nation as one of Morals and Values, gjvjng those who disagree the opportunity to leave in a cdrtajn period of time. After that period, if youre still here, you're expected to get with the program or suffer ttbe consequences.

You are a Legalist.

 

[SavannahMann]

I believe we are finally getting to the root of your feelings. It has taken a while. You believe that the physical beating is part of the punishment process. You think that the extrajudicial beatings are vital to this process. And you think that without these extrajudicial beatings and killings that people who think like you do will resort to vigilante justice.

I'll grant you this. You might want to. But I just don't see it catching on. After Bronson made the Death Wish movies the panicky people worried that this glorification of vigilante justice would encourage more of it. It never happened. Those who think as you do might fantasize about it, but they don't actually do it.

So go on and go back to watching your Gold Box edition of the Death Wish series.

I have long understood that Pain and Fear are the only truly useful forces in changing human behavior. With that in mind, real Justice must include one, or preferably both of those components. Without either, you have nothing more than Legal consequences. If the Government can't or won't do that, it is Society's place to do so.

I decided to give you a serious answer. Because you put this out seriously. The situation you describe of pain and fear of authority is a system of Government. It is not one where freedom or liberty flourish or even exist.

It is the tanks rolling over protestors in Tianiman Square. It is the Soviet Army going in to put down the Hungarian Revolution. It is the reeducation camps of Pol Pot. It is the thugs and soldiers in Venezuela today.

I used the term Extrajudicial to describe the beatings you are so fond of. That word was accurate. It is one principle you apparently embrace.

If you have that kind of Government. One where pain and fear are the motivation to keep people in line, what inevitably happens? What has always happened? First you don't change human behavior. You create the illusion of obedience. The Soviet workers had a joke. As long as they pretend to pay us, we will pretend to work. You end up with people going through the motions. You end up with Venezuela. The one thing you can be sure of is you will not end up with a nation of patriots.

You do end up with a population that you dare not turn your back on.

Dude, give up...this nut is a full-on psycho who probably masturbates to thoughts of being Stalin.

I am enjoying myself. Like an anarchist who screws up a peaceful protest and gives them all bad names this dolt is delegitimizating the authority he dreams of being in effect. The truth is most people like the idea of being a king with absolute power. They object when anyone but themselves is in that position. So the more I keep him rambling about his dream of pure authority and obedience the more discredited the idea of absolute authority of the police is.

There is an old saying. If someone is determined to make an ass of themselves get out of the way. I prefer to hand them a bullhorn and a soapbox and make sure that as many people as possible see them, and hear them.

I refuse to save a fool from himself. I feel confident that a vast majority of people would reject this insane idea of his. Worse for him is the fact that the more he talks the more people see the dangerous ideas that he proposes and reject them even more adamantly.

I'm the guy who will hold your beer when you decide to jump off the roof into a shallow swimming pool. Then I'll make sure that as many people possible are watching.

 

[Jarlaxle]

No...he is not a fool. That is the problem. He is a PSYCHO.

 

[SavannahMann]

No...he is not a fool. That is the problem. He is a PSYCHO.

Yes. But think of it this way. People who support the police generally but are a little troubled will read his rants and theories and then start to question this blind support. Or at the very least will utterly reject his nonsense.

His statements about the huge disaster that has happened when women and worse blacks were freed from their second class citizen status is embraced by only the craziest of kooks.

He has nothing to offer but his belief that these supposedly second class citizens should be subjugated and subdued with extreme vigilante brutality. Now how does someone come along after him and argue the actions of the cop are reasonable? Keep him talking and utterly discrediting his position and driving himself further to the fringe.

 

[Anathema]

You are a Legalist.

Only if the Laws are basdd on proper Morality.

 

[Anathema]

Yes. But think of it this way. People who support the police generally but are a little troubled will read his rants and theories and then start to question this blind support. Or at the very least will utterly reject his nonsense.

His statements about the huge disaster that has happened when women and worse blacks were freed from their second class citizen status is embraced by only the craziest of kooks.

He has nothing to offer but his belief that these supposedly second class citizens should be subjugated and subdued with extreme vigilante brutality. Now how does someone come along after him and argue the actions of the cop are reasonable? Keep him talking and utterly discrediting his position and driving himself further to the fringe.

You make the mistake of believing I'm here to change people's minds or open their eyes. I'm not. I'm only interested in your eyes readjng the Truth so you have no defense when The Divine senrences your Soul to eternal torture.

 

[SavannahMann]

Yes. But think of it this way. People who support the police generally but are a little troubled will read his rants and theories and then start to question this blind support. Or at the very least will utterly reject his nonsense.

His statements about the huge disaster that has happened when women and worse blacks were freed from their second class citizen status is embraced by only the craziest of kooks.

He has nothing to offer but his belief that these supposedly second class citizens should be subjugated and subdued with extreme vigilante brutality. Now how does someone come along after him and argue the actions of the cop are reasonable? Keep him talking and utterly discrediting his position and driving himself further to the fringe.

You make the mistake of believing I'm here to change people's minds or open their eyes. I'm not. I'm only interested in your eyes readjng the Truth so you have no defense when The Divine senrences your Soul to eternal torture.

Funny. You want to make this a discussion on religious philosophy? Ok. So if I am not slavishly obedient to whatever the authority does then I am doomed to hellfire. Odd. Since our ideals on justice are drawn from the writings of among others St. Augustine. Including the principle of an unjust law being the same as no law.

So Augustine was so brilliant that the Church made him a Saint. Yet he was so wrong because only you really get it.

But you may not be talking Christian beliefs. So what religious text do you draw this rather unique view of the world from? I can tell you it isn't Buddhism, nor Wicca, nor Judaism. I'm not as well read on the Hindu faith but I don't think so. That leaves Islam. By any chance are you one of those guys who hates Juice?

I think your rants are starting to make sense. How do you feel about honor killings?

 

[Anathema]

Funny. You want to make this a discussion on religious philosophy? Ok. So if I am not slavishly obedient to whatever the authority does then I am doomed to hellfire.....

Not Religion. I have no use for Organized Religion. Morality, which I believe trumps all Religious teaching. I believe a form of Universal Morality has existed since the time that our ancestors formed the first communities, and that the tenants of their Morality are what we should be following.

 

[SavannahMann]

Funny. You want to make this a discussion on religious philosophy? Ok. So if I am not slavishly obedient to whatever the authority does then I am doomed to hellfire.....

Not Religion. I have no use for Organized Religion. Morality, which I believe trumps all Religious teaching. I believe a form of Universal Morality has existed since the time that our ancestors formed the first communities, and that the tenants of their Morality are what we should be following.

Let me make sure that I have this straight. It is your belief that the Universe wants people to obey authority. And the universe wants this authority to pummel people into bloody lumps. Because the universe loves order. The universe has spoken to you through a universal morality. Or something.

The foundation of this belief is not some obscure reference in a religious text. It isn't a unique interpretation of some parable. It is your belief. You just know. You just know the universe loves order.

When we started on this path I thought it was funny. Others called on me to stop because you were crazy. Boy am I glad I didn't listen. I would have missed so much.

 

[Anathema]

Let me make sure that I have this straight. It is your belief that the Universe wants people to obey authority. And the universe wants this authority to pummel people into bloody lumps. Because the universe loves order. The universe has spoken to you through a universal morality. Or something.

The foundation of this belief is not some obscure reference in a religious text. It isn't a unique interpretation of some parable. It is your belief. You just know. You just know the universe loves order.

The Universe has no use for order any more than a Labyrinth has for easy, straight paths from entry to exit. It's designed for Chaos. That is exactly why this Universe is the best place to test the Soul's ability to live within proper Law & Order. This life is a test. Nothing more or less.

16 years ago I had a Spiritual epiphany. It took my father's death to bring it aboit. I walked into houses of worship and talked to clergy members of every organized religion and new age group I could find with one question. One single word..... "Why?". Nobody could come up with an acceptable answer. Most refusdd to even try. I even tried reading "When bad things happen to good people" to no dffect.

It wasn't until I stepped back and looked at how my Spiritual and life experiences meshed that I found an answer. A very simlle one: Life sucks because that's the point of life. We're here for misery, discontent and pain to see if we will continue to live a proper life or give in.