Fedgov vs Apple : In re Iphone "backdoor"

[Contumacious]

Shocking!

Days and days of these demands that privacy be a thing of the past and those taking that position still fail to post their names, addresses, social security and bank account numbers.

What is it that you're hiding?

Exactly.

Repeating , if the FBI really needs the info they should submit an interagency request to the NSA.


.

 

[kaz]

I don't see this as a left or right issue. It's not divided down party lines. I'm as right as you can just about get, and I'm against government forcing a private industry to create items they demand.

I wasn't making a general statement of whether it is a left or right issue, I was answering the narrow question I was asked.

I'm not sure from the discussion we're arguing the same thing. I am not arguing for Apple to give the government a back door the government can use again and again. The NSA has proven how far they can be trusted with that. I don't personally care for Snowden, but I totally support what he did regardless of why he did it.

I'm just arguing that Apple should agree to government giving them the phone and they give government the data. There is no downside to that for them. Anyone knows now they can backdoor the data. If that doesn't meet someone's security requirement, then they already aren't going to use apple phones.

I think Apple should go with private key public key encryption so they can't unlock the data going forward. But as long as they can get this data, they should do it

I'm with you on that if Apple can do it safely, but according to Apple, it's a security risk.

I don't want to pretend I understand it all because I don't. It would seem like common sense to make this program to get the data, then destroy everything, but according to Apple, once it's made, you can't put that Genie back in the bottle.

Short of killing everyone who worked on cracking the encryption, you can't. That would put Apple one disgruntled employee (or one blackmailed employee) away from catastrophe.

Um ... you didn't think that one through. Employees who can crack the encryption can crack the encryption now....

BTW, they probably already did. I don't know how much you know about public/private key encryption, but it's a mathematical formula. To be able to break it is something you actually have to design into the algorithm. That means in order to be able to "crack the code," you have to design it cracked. All they are talking about is whether they write the piece of code to actually do it or not

Okay, so what if Apple claims they tried, but they can't do it either? Do people go to jail? Will Apple get fined out of existence? Maybe Apple will decide to move out of the country entirely so that our government has no jurisdiction over them or their products?

I wonder if that would make people happy?

They either know they can or they know they can't. If they new they couldn't, they would have known it all along. If they knew they could, they'd have known that all along too

 

[Edgetho]

Tim Cook needs to go to Prison.

Fucking period.

And to you anti-government dimocrap scum and liberturdians (redundant, I know); FUCK you.

You're always the first ones crying about how the government needs to do a better job of protecting us when a tragedy happens.

The cocksucker, Cook doesn't seem to mind kow-towing (pun intended) to the communist Chinese but when it comes to helping his own government help secure his own people?

Not so much.

You people siding with Apple? Dupes. Fools, Useful idiots.

And those are the nicer things I can say about you

While it defies U.S. government, Apple abides by China's orders — and reaps big rewards

Apple Inc. has come out swinging in its pitched battle with the government on its home turf.

But when it comes to its second-largest market, China, the Cupertino, Calif., company has been far more accommodating.

Since the iPhone was officially introduced in China seven years ago, Apple has overcome a national security backlash there and has censored apps that wouldn't pass muster with Chinese authorities. It has moved local user data onto servers operated by the state-owned China Telecom and submits to security audits by Chinese authorities.

The approach contrasts with Apple's defiant stance against the FBI, which is heaping pressure on the company to decrypt an iPhone that belonged to San Bernardino shooter Syed Rizwan Farook.A

 

[Rustic]

Federal government is the one that fucked up, should Apple be responsible for the fuck-ups the governments constantly doing??

 

[Edgetho]

Federal government is the one that fucked up, should Apple be responsible for the fuck-ups the governments constantly doing??

A lie

 

[Contumacious]

Tim Cook needs to go to Prison.

Fucking period.

And to you anti-government dimocrap scum and liberturdians (redundant, I know); FUCK you.

You're always the first ones crying about how the government needs to do a better job of protecting us when a tragedy happens.

The cocksucker, Cook doesn't seem to mind kow-towing (pun intended) to the communist Chinese but when it comes to helping his own government help secure his own people?

Not so much.

You people siding with Apple? Dupes. Fools, Useful idiots.

And those are the nicer things I can say about you

While it defies U.S. government, Apple abides by China's orders — and reaps big rewards

Apple Inc. has come out swinging in its pitched battle with the government on its home turf.

But when it comes to its second-largest market, China, the Cupertino, Calif., company has been far more accommodating.

Since the iPhone was officially introduced in China seven years ago, Apple has overcome a national security backlash there and has censored apps that wouldn't pass muster with Chinese authorities. It has moved local user data onto servers operated by the state-owned China Telecom and submits to security audits by Chinese authorities.

The approach contrasts with Apple's defiant stance against the FBI, which is heaping pressure on the company to decrypt an iPhone that belonged to San Bernardino shooter Syed Rizwan Farook.A

 

[Contumacious]

Federal government is the one that fucked up, should Apple be responsible for the fuck-ups the governments constantly doing??

Republican Candidates All Agree: Apple Should Be Obligated to Work for the FBI

Even the "outsiders" (wink, wink)

Stupid fascists motherfuckers

 

[Contumacious]

San Bernardino police chief, Jarrod Burguan, who was part of the investigation into the two shooters who killed 14 during a mass shooting event last December, says there probably isn't any useful information on Syed Farook's government-issued phone. "I'll be honest with you, I think there is a reasonably good chance that there is nothing of any value on the phone," Burguan said.

 

[FA_Q2]

I wasn't making a general statement of whether it is a left or right issue, I was answering the narrow question I was asked.

I'm not sure from the discussion we're arguing the same thing. I am not arguing for Apple to give the government a back door the government can use again and again. The NSA has proven how far they can be trusted with that. I don't personally care for Snowden, but I totally support what he did regardless of why he did it.

I'm just arguing that Apple should agree to government giving them the phone and they give government the data. There is no downside to that for them. Anyone knows now they can backdoor the data. If that doesn't meet someone's security requirement, then they already aren't going to use apple phones.

I think Apple should go with private key public key encryption so they can't unlock the data going forward. But as long as they can get this data, they should do it

I'm with you on that if Apple can do it safely, but according to Apple, it's a security risk.

I don't want to pretend I understand it all because I don't. It would seem like common sense to make this program to get the data, then destroy everything, but according to Apple, once it's made, you can't put that Genie back in the bottle.

Short of killing everyone who worked on cracking the encryption, you can't. That would put Apple one disgruntled employee (or one blackmailed employee) away from catastrophe.

Um ... you didn't think that one through. Employees who can crack the encryption can crack the encryption now....

BTW, they probably already did. I don't know how much you know about public/private key encryption, but it's a mathematical formula. To be able to break it is something you actually have to design into the algorithm. That means in order to be able to "crack the code," you have to design it cracked. All they are talking about is whether they write the piece of code to actually do it or not

Okay, so what if Apple claims they tried, but they can't do it either? Do people go to jail? Will Apple get fined out of existence? Maybe Apple will decide to move out of the country entirely so that our government has no jurisdiction over them or their products?

I wonder if that would make people happy?

They either know they can or they know they can't. If they new they couldn't, they would have known it all along. If they knew they could, they'd have known that all along too

No, they really do not. They know that they can try - that does not mean they are going to be able to or know how much resource it will take in order to do so.

 

[FA_Q2]

Tim Cook needs to go to Prison.

Fucking period.

And to you anti-government dimocrap scum and liberturdians (redundant, I know); FUCK you.

You're always the first ones crying about how the government needs to do a better job of protecting us when a tragedy happens.

The cocksucker, Cook doesn't seem to mind kow-towing (pun intended) to the communist Chinese but when it comes to helping his own government help secure his own people?

Not so much.

You people siding with Apple? Dupes. Fools, Useful idiots.

And those are the nicer things I can say about you

While it defies U.S. government, Apple abides by China's orders — and reaps big rewards

Apple Inc. has come out swinging in its pitched battle with the government on its home turf.

But when it comes to its second-largest market, China, the Cupertino, Calif., company has been far more accommodating.

Since the iPhone was officially introduced in China seven years ago, Apple has overcome a national security backlash there and has censored apps that wouldn't pass muster with Chinese authorities. It has moved local user data onto servers operated by the state-owned China Telecom and submits to security audits by Chinese authorities.

The approach contrasts with Apple's defiant stance against the FBI, which is heaping pressure on the company to decrypt an iPhone that belonged to San Bernardino shooter Syed Rizwan Farook.A

Mayhap that is because we have limits on the power of government here and in China they really do not.

Are you really saying that our government should have powers like the Chinese government does in terms of powers against its own people? Really?

 

[kaz]

I'm with you on that if Apple can do it safely, but according to Apple, it's a security risk.

I don't want to pretend I understand it all because I don't. It would seem like common sense to make this program to get the data, then destroy everything, but according to Apple, once it's made, you can't put that Genie back in the bottle.

Short of killing everyone who worked on cracking the encryption, you can't. That would put Apple one disgruntled employee (or one blackmailed employee) away from catastrophe.

Um ... you didn't think that one through. Employees who can crack the encryption can crack the encryption now....

BTW, they probably already did. I don't know how much you know about public/private key encryption, but it's a mathematical formula. To be able to break it is something you actually have to design into the algorithm. That means in order to be able to "crack the code," you have to design it cracked. All they are talking about is whether they write the piece of code to actually do it or not

Okay, so what if Apple claims they tried, but they can't do it either? Do people go to jail? Will Apple get fined out of existence? Maybe Apple will decide to move out of the country entirely so that our government has no jurisdiction over them or their products?

I wonder if that would make people happy?

They either know they can or they know they can't. If they new they couldn't, they would have known it all along. If they knew they could, they'd have known that all along too

No, they really do not. They know that they can try - that does not mean they are going to be able to or know how much resource it will take in order to do so.

That's ridiculous. They are only going to be able to break the code if they designed the code so that they knew how to break it. If they didn't design the code with a back door, then they can't break it, period.

Encryption codes are mathematical algorithms. How do they not know if they put in a back door or not?

 

[FA_Q2]

Short of killing everyone who worked on cracking the encryption, you can't. That would put Apple one disgruntled employee (or one blackmailed employee) away from catastrophe.

Um ... you didn't think that one through. Employees who can crack the encryption can crack the encryption now....

BTW, they probably already did. I don't know how much you know about public/private key encryption, but it's a mathematical formula. To be able to break it is something you actually have to design into the algorithm. That means in order to be able to "crack the code," you have to design it cracked. All they are talking about is whether they write the piece of code to actually do it or not

Okay, so what if Apple claims they tried, but they can't do it either? Do people go to jail? Will Apple get fined out of existence? Maybe Apple will decide to move out of the country entirely so that our government has no jurisdiction over them or their products?

I wonder if that would make people happy?

They either know they can or they know they can't. If they new they couldn't, they would have known it all along. If they knew they could, they'd have known that all along too

No, they really do not. They know that they can try - that does not mean they are going to be able to or know how much resource it will take in order to do so.

That's ridiculous. They are only going to be able to break the code if they designed the code so that they knew how to break it. If they didn't design the code with a back door, then they can't break it, period.

Encryption codes are mathematical algorithms. How do they not know if they put in a back door or not?

You do not need to purposely put in a back door in order to find a hole in the code to exploit.

 

[Contumacious]

Um ... you didn't think that one through. Employees who can crack the encryption can crack the encryption now....

BTW, they probably already did. I don't know how much you know about public/private key encryption, but it's a mathematical formula. To be able to break it is something you actually have to design into the algorithm. That means in order to be able to "crack the code," you have to design it cracked. All they are talking about is whether they write the piece of code to actually do it or not

Okay, so what if Apple claims they tried, but they can't do it either? Do people go to jail? Will Apple get fined out of existence? Maybe Apple will decide to move out of the country entirely so that our government has no jurisdiction over them or their products?

I wonder if that would make people happy?

They either know they can or they know they can't. If they new they couldn't, they would have known it all along. If they knew they could, they'd have known that all along too

No, they really do not. They know that they can try - that does not mean they are going to be able to or know how much resource it will take in order to do so.

That's ridiculous. They are only going to be able to break the code if they designed the code so that they knew how to break it. If they didn't design the code with a back door, then they can't break it, period.

Encryption codes are mathematical algorithms. How do they not know if they put in a back door or not?

You do not need to purposely put in a back door in order to find a hole in the code to exploit.

Apple has filed a motion in the District Court of the Central District of California, asking that the court vacate its February 16 order that the company help the FBI hack in to the iPhone used by San Bernardino shooter Syed Farook


.

 

[kaz]

Um ... you didn't think that one through. Employees who can crack the encryption can crack the encryption now....

BTW, they probably already did. I don't know how much you know about public/private key encryption, but it's a mathematical formula. To be able to break it is something you actually have to design into the algorithm. That means in order to be able to "crack the code," you have to design it cracked. All they are talking about is whether they write the piece of code to actually do it or not

Okay, so what if Apple claims they tried, but they can't do it either? Do people go to jail? Will Apple get fined out of existence? Maybe Apple will decide to move out of the country entirely so that our government has no jurisdiction over them or their products?

I wonder if that would make people happy?

They either know they can or they know they can't. If they new they couldn't, they would have known it all along. If they knew they could, they'd have known that all along too

No, they really do not. They know that they can try - that does not mean they are going to be able to or know how much resource it will take in order to do so.

That's ridiculous. They are only going to be able to break the code if they designed the code so that they knew how to break it. If they didn't design the code with a back door, then they can't break it, period.

Encryption codes are mathematical algorithms. How do they not know if they put in a back door or not?

You do not need to purposely put in a back door in order to find a hole in the code to exploit.

Do some research on public/private key encryption. If it's encrypted, the code has nothing to do with it, you can't decrypt it

 

[FA_Q2]

Okay, so what if Apple claims they tried, but they can't do it either? Do people go to jail? Will Apple get fined out of existence? Maybe Apple will decide to move out of the country entirely so that our government has no jurisdiction over them or their products?

I wonder if that would make people happy?

They either know they can or they know they can't. If they new they couldn't, they would have known it all along. If they knew they could, they'd have known that all along too

No, they really do not. They know that they can try - that does not mean they are going to be able to or know how much resource it will take in order to do so.

That's ridiculous. They are only going to be able to break the code if they designed the code so that they knew how to break it. If they didn't design the code with a back door, then they can't break it, period.

Encryption codes are mathematical algorithms. How do they not know if they put in a back door or not?

You do not need to purposely put in a back door in order to find a hole in the code to exploit.

Do some research on public/private key encryption. If it's encrypted, the code has nothing to do with it, you can't decrypt it

Tell that to the thousands of previous hackers and code breakers that have done so when there was no back door built into the encryption.

Breaking encryption is nothing new and no, it has never required that a back door be built in. In this case Apple is being asked to develop a workaround to the pass code limit that is built into the phone and wipes it after so many times an incorrect code is put in so the FBI can brute force hack phones. A brute force hack will be very easy to accomplish without a limit on the number of times you can input the pass code. IOW, a work around of the software is exactly what they are asking for.

 

[kaz]

They either know they can or they know they can't. If they new they couldn't, they would have known it all along. If they knew they could, they'd have known that all along too

No, they really do not. They know that they can try - that does not mean they are going to be able to or know how much resource it will take in order to do so.

That's ridiculous. They are only going to be able to break the code if they designed the code so that they knew how to break it. If they didn't design the code with a back door, then they can't break it, period.

Encryption codes are mathematical algorithms. How do they not know if they put in a back door or not?

You do not need to purposely put in a back door in order to find a hole in the code to exploit.

Do some research on public/private key encryption. If it's encrypted, the code has nothing to do with it, you can't decrypt it

Tell that to the thousands of previous hackers and code breakers that have done so when there was no back door built into the encryption.

Breaking encryption is nothing new and no, it has never required that a back door be built in. In this case Apple is being asked to develop a workaround to the pass code limit that is built into the phone and wipes it after so many times an incorrect code is put in so the FBI can brute force hack phones. A brute force hack will be very easy to accomplish without a limit on the number of times you can input the pass code. IOW, a work around of the software is exactly what they are asking for.

Again, read up on public key/private key encryption. The key to the back door isn't the code, it's putting in a back door in the algorithm. The code is easy

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

NY judge: US cannot make Apple provide iPhone data
Monday, February 29th 2016, 4:35 pm ESTMonday, February 29th 2016, 8:15 pm EST

NY judge: US cannot make Apple provide iPhone data

 

[MaryL]

I have an Apple product. I mainly use Samsung and Android. No Matter. Apple needs to co-operate with the justice department. Hackers will find a back door, and the authorities have a Warrant for the front door.

 

[froggy]

have you noticed starting this year that most phones will be replaced if they cannot be unlock

 

[MaryL]

Let's put more emphasis on stopping the bad guys, the hackers, the dark web, the exploiters. Not stopping law enforcement. I say yes to a backdoor key for law enforcement. Not a 1st Amendment Get out of jail free card Apple is endorsing.