Fedgov vs Apple : In re Iphone "backdoor"

[Contumacious]

Apple needs to comply with a lawful court order, as it has in the past.

"Lawful 'court" order........???????..........Wut?


.

 

[Contumacious]

you side with fear out of ignorance and paranoia...

It's the libertarian way.

Socialists love Orwellian doubletalk

so what you meant to say is that Libertarians love Reason and Liberty.

You got that right.

.

 

[Contumacious]

The Apple-FBI Fight Isn’t About Privacy vs. Security. Don’t Be Misled

"THROUGHOUT THE ONGOING fight between Apple and the FBI over custom access to an iPhone used by one of the two terrorists who killed 14 people in San Bernardino, the government has framed the argument as a simple trade-off: You must surrender a little privacy if you want more security. The scales don’t balance quite so neatly, though; there’s nothing secure about giving the FBI their way. Still, it’s been an effective way for the government to win over the public, on its way to trying to win over the courts."

 

[Rustic]

Apple is on the right side of history on this, that simple.

 

[Contumacious]

Apple supporters plan to protest FBI today in Tampa, Brandon, elsewhere - See more at: http://www.tbo.com/news/crime/apple-supporters-plan-to-protest-fbi-today-in-tampa-brandon-elsewhere-

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[Bassman007]

Apple supporters plan to protest FBI today in Tampa, Brandon, elsewhere - See more at: http://www.tbo.com/news/crime/apple-supporters-plan-to-protest-fbi-today-in-tampa-brandon-elsewhere-

.

You mean the Apple supporters who are dumb enough to believe that their phones are secure... lalalalalalalala

 

[Contumacious]

Apple supporters plan to protest FBI today in Tampa, Brandon, elsewhere - See more at: http://www.tbo.com/news/crime/apple-supporters-plan-to-protest-fbi-today-in-tampa-brandon-elsewhere-

.

You mean the Apple supporters who are dumb enough to believe that their phones are secure... lalalalalalalala

Apple’s Involuntary Servitude


“There is nothing new in the realization that the Constitution sometimes insulates the criminality of a few in order to protect the privacy of us all.” —

Justice Antonin Scalia (1936-2016)

 

[NYcarbineer]

I wonder if the government buys much from Apple?

I think they should stop buying Apple products.

 

[Brain357]

Tim Cook: Apple Won't Create 'Backdoor' to Help FBI Access San Bernardino Shooter's iPhone

Cook concludes Apple's open letter by saying the company's opposition to the order is not an action they took lightly and that they challenge the request "with the deepest respect for democracy and a love for our country." Ultimately, Apple fears these demands would "undermine the very freedoms and liberty our government is meant to protect."


Contumacious applauds Mr. Tim Cook.

What the government is asking for will destroy Apple.

Under the old Constitution (1787-1935) Apple had rights protected by the 4 and 5th Amendments. It also had a right to Judicial Review.

That is no longer available. Mr Cook is own his own.

An Article III Judge would have demanded that the government stop meddling in the internal affairs of other nations.

A scumbag spineless impostor pretending to be a judge will simply comply with the FBI's request.


.For shame.

If there is a terrorist attack with lives lost that could have been stopped if Apple helped the FBI then Apple will be done.

 

[Contumacious]

I wonder if the government buys much from Apple?

I think they should stop buying Apple products.

Yo Vern,


Why hasn't the FBI subpoenaed the transcripts from the NSA?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

On the way home from work, I was listening to Michael Medved. He was interviewing a four star General who worked in the NSA. The General said he was very much on Apple's side on this issue. He didn't go into detail, but stated that not only would creating a back door to that phone compromise all I-phone users, but it could put national security at risk. I believe the General's name was Hayden. Medved might post the interview on his site later today or tomorrow if anybody cares to listen.

 

[Contumacious]

On the way home from work, I was listening to Michael Medved. He was interviewing a four star General who worked in the NSA. The General said he was very much on Apple's side on this issue. He didn't go into detail, but stated that not only would creating a back door to that phone compromise all I-phone users, but it could put national security at risk. I believe the General's name was Hayden. Medved might post the interview on his site later today or tomorrow if anybody cares to listen.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The government isn't doing anything to their software or their business. They are trying to investigate a crime they had nothing to do with. There is no threat to them

Why is Apple refusing to comply if it is true that encryption is not adversely affected?

Are they Jihadists?

Are they terrorists?


,

It's ideology, the left is wrong on every issue, this is the left being wrong again.

No one is going to not buy Apple products because they help the police investigate a brutal terrorist attack. Everyone now knows they could help police so there's no facade they can't do it. There is no benefit to them to not assist in getting the data

I don't see this as a left or right issue. It's not divided down party lines. I'm as right as you can just about get, and I'm against government forcing a private industry to create items they demand.

I wasn't making a general statement of whether it is a left or right issue, I was answering the narrow question I was asked.

I'm not sure from the discussion we're arguing the same thing. I am not arguing for Apple to give the government a back door the government can use again and again. The NSA has proven how far they can be trusted with that. I don't personally care for Snowden, but I totally support what he did regardless of why he did it.

I'm just arguing that Apple should agree to government giving them the phone and they give government the data. There is no downside to that for them. Anyone knows now they can backdoor the data. If that doesn't meet someone's security requirement, then they already aren't going to use apple phones.

I think Apple should go with private key public key encryption so they can't unlock the data going forward. But as long as they can get this data, they should do it

I'm with you on that if Apple can do it safely, but according to Apple, it's a security risk.

I don't want to pretend I understand it all because I don't. It would seem like common sense to make this program to get the data, then destroy everything, but according to Apple, once it's made, you can't put that Genie back in the bottle.

Short of killing everyone who worked on cracking the encryption, you can't. That would put Apple one disgruntled employee (or one blackmailed employee) away from catastrophe.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why is Apple refusing to comply if it is true that encryption is not adversely affected?

Are they Jihadists?

Are they terrorists?


,

It's ideology, the left is wrong on every issue, this is the left being wrong again.

No one is going to not buy Apple products because they help the police investigate a brutal terrorist attack. Everyone now knows they could help police so there's no facade they can't do it. There is no benefit to them to not assist in getting the data

I don't see this as a left or right issue. It's not divided down party lines. I'm as right as you can just about get, and I'm against government forcing a private industry to create items they demand.

I wasn't making a general statement of whether it is a left or right issue, I was answering the narrow question I was asked.

I'm not sure from the discussion we're arguing the same thing. I am not arguing for Apple to give the government a back door the government can use again and again. The NSA has proven how far they can be trusted with that. I don't personally care for Snowden, but I totally support what he did regardless of why he did it.

I'm just arguing that Apple should agree to government giving them the phone and they give government the data. There is no downside to that for them. Anyone knows now they can backdoor the data. If that doesn't meet someone's security requirement, then they already aren't going to use apple phones.

I think Apple should go with private key public key encryption so they can't unlock the data going forward. But as long as they can get this data, they should do it

I'm with you on that if Apple can do it safely, but according to Apple, it's a security risk.

I don't want to pretend I understand it all because I don't. It would seem like common sense to make this program to get the data, then destroy everything, but according to Apple, once it's made, you can't put that Genie back in the bottle.

Short of killing everyone who worked on cracking the encryption, you can't. That would put Apple one disgruntled employee (or one blackmailed employee) away from catastrophe.

One need simply look at the cavalier manner in which Bill's wife treated classified emails to see what would happen to any security once Apple submitted to the intimation.


Judge Napolitano:
"Apple has argued that the government has no legal right to compel it to assist in a government investigation, or to compel it to alter or destroy its business model of guaranteeing the safety and privacy of its customers' data. Apple knows that any "key" it creates for the FBI, once used on the Internet, is itself vulnerable to hacking, thereby jeopardizing all Apple products and negating the privacy of tens of millions, and even exposing the government to foreign hackers.

The warrant was improperly granted because Apple was not given notice of the DoJ application. So, the judge who issued the order denied Apple due process -- its day in court. That alone is sufficient to invalidate the order.

...DoJ has obtained the most unique search warrant I have ever seen in 40 years of examining them. Here, the DoJ has persuaded a judge to issue a search warrant for A THING THAT DOES NOT EXIST, by forcing Apple to create a key that the FBI is incapable of creating.
There is no authority for the government to compel a nonparty to its case to do its work,...

There is more at stake here than the privacy of Apple's millions of customers and the security of power grids and all that the Internet serves. Personal liberty in a free society is at stake. A government that stays within the confines of the Constitution is at stake."
Judge Andrew Napolitano - Apple's Involuntary Servitude

 

[kaz]

Why is Apple refusing to comply if it is true that encryption is not adversely affected?

Are they Jihadists?

Are they terrorists?


,

It's ideology, the left is wrong on every issue, this is the left being wrong again.

No one is going to not buy Apple products because they help the police investigate a brutal terrorist attack. Everyone now knows they could help police so there's no facade they can't do it. There is no benefit to them to not assist in getting the data

I don't see this as a left or right issue. It's not divided down party lines. I'm as right as you can just about get, and I'm against government forcing a private industry to create items they demand.

I wasn't making a general statement of whether it is a left or right issue, I was answering the narrow question I was asked.

I'm not sure from the discussion we're arguing the same thing. I am not arguing for Apple to give the government a back door the government can use again and again. The NSA has proven how far they can be trusted with that. I don't personally care for Snowden, but I totally support what he did regardless of why he did it.

I'm just arguing that Apple should agree to government giving them the phone and they give government the data. There is no downside to that for them. Anyone knows now they can backdoor the data. If that doesn't meet someone's security requirement, then they already aren't going to use apple phones.

I think Apple should go with private key public key encryption so they can't unlock the data going forward. But as long as they can get this data, they should do it

I'm with you on that if Apple can do it safely, but according to Apple, it's a security risk.

I don't want to pretend I understand it all because I don't. It would seem like common sense to make this program to get the data, then destroy everything, but according to Apple, once it's made, you can't put that Genie back in the bottle.

Short of killing everyone who worked on cracking the encryption, you can't. That would put Apple one disgruntled employee (or one blackmailed employee) away from catastrophe.

Um ... you didn't think that one through. Employees who can crack the encryption can crack the encryption now....

BTW, they probably already did. I don't know how much you know about public/private key encryption, but it's a mathematical formula. To be able to break it is something you actually have to design into the algorithm. That means in order to be able to "crack the code," you have to design it cracked. All they are talking about is whether they write the piece of code to actually do it or not

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's ideology, the left is wrong on every issue, this is the left being wrong again.

No one is going to not buy Apple products because they help the police investigate a brutal terrorist attack. Everyone now knows they could help police so there's no facade they can't do it. There is no benefit to them to not assist in getting the data

I don't see this as a left or right issue. It's not divided down party lines. I'm as right as you can just about get, and I'm against government forcing a private industry to create items they demand.

I wasn't making a general statement of whether it is a left or right issue, I was answering the narrow question I was asked.

I'm not sure from the discussion we're arguing the same thing. I am not arguing for Apple to give the government a back door the government can use again and again. The NSA has proven how far they can be trusted with that. I don't personally care for Snowden, but I totally support what he did regardless of why he did it.

I'm just arguing that Apple should agree to government giving them the phone and they give government the data. There is no downside to that for them. Anyone knows now they can backdoor the data. If that doesn't meet someone's security requirement, then they already aren't going to use apple phones.

I think Apple should go with private key public key encryption so they can't unlock the data going forward. But as long as they can get this data, they should do it

I'm with you on that if Apple can do it safely, but according to Apple, it's a security risk.

I don't want to pretend I understand it all because I don't. It would seem like common sense to make this program to get the data, then destroy everything, but according to Apple, once it's made, you can't put that Genie back in the bottle.

Short of killing everyone who worked on cracking the encryption, you can't. That would put Apple one disgruntled employee (or one blackmailed employee) away from catastrophe.

Um ... you didn't think that one through. Employees who can crack the encryption can crack the encryption now....

BTW, they probably already did. I don't know how much you know about public/private key encryption, but it's a mathematical formula. To be able to break it is something you actually have to design into the algorithm. That means in order to be able to "crack the code," you have to design it cracked. All they are talking about is whether they write the piece of code to actually do it or not

Okay, so what if Apple claims they tried, but they can't do it either? Do people go to jail? Will Apple get fined out of existence? Maybe Apple will decide to move out of the country entirely so that our government has no jurisdiction over them or their products?

I wonder if that would make people happy?

 

[Rustic]

I wonder if the government buys much from Apple?

I think they should stop buying Apple products.

You think Apple cares?? The federal government are a bunch of fuck ups...

 

[PoliticalChic]

I don't see this as a left or right issue. It's not divided down party lines. I'm as right as you can just about get, and I'm against government forcing a private industry to create items they demand.

I wasn't making a general statement of whether it is a left or right issue, I was answering the narrow question I was asked.

I'm not sure from the discussion we're arguing the same thing. I am not arguing for Apple to give the government a back door the government can use again and again. The NSA has proven how far they can be trusted with that. I don't personally care for Snowden, but I totally support what he did regardless of why he did it.

I'm just arguing that Apple should agree to government giving them the phone and they give government the data. There is no downside to that for them. Anyone knows now they can backdoor the data. If that doesn't meet someone's security requirement, then they already aren't going to use apple phones.

I think Apple should go with private key public key encryption so they can't unlock the data going forward. But as long as they can get this data, they should do it

I'm with you on that if Apple can do it safely, but according to Apple, it's a security risk.

I don't want to pretend I understand it all because I don't. It would seem like common sense to make this program to get the data, then destroy everything, but according to Apple, once it's made, you can't put that Genie back in the bottle.

Short of killing everyone who worked on cracking the encryption, you can't. That would put Apple one disgruntled employee (or one blackmailed employee) away from catastrophe.

Um ... you didn't think that one through. Employees who can crack the encryption can crack the encryption now....

BTW, they probably already did. I don't know how much you know about public/private key encryption, but it's a mathematical formula. To be able to break it is something you actually have to design into the algorithm. That means in order to be able to "crack the code," you have to design it cracked. All they are talking about is whether they write the piece of code to actually do it or not

Okay, so what if Apple claims they tried, but they can't do it either? Do people go to jail? Will Apple get fined out of existence? Maybe Apple will decide to move out of the country entirely so that our government has no jurisdiction over them or their products?

I wonder if that would make people happy?

Jail.

The 'investigators' will decide they're lying......look what they did to Scooter Libby over a difference of recollection.

 

[Contumacious]

It's ideology, the left is wrong on every issue, this is the left being wrong again.

No one is going to not buy Apple products because they help the police investigate a brutal terrorist attack. Everyone now knows they could help police so there's no facade they can't do it. There is no benefit to them to not assist in getting the data

I don't see this as a left or right issue. It's not divided down party lines. I'm as right as you can just about get, and I'm against government forcing a private industry to create items they demand.

I wasn't making a general statement of whether it is a left or right issue, I was answering the narrow question I was asked.

I'm not sure from the discussion we're arguing the same thing. I am not arguing for Apple to give the government a back door the government can use again and again. The NSA has proven how far they can be trusted with that. I don't personally care for Snowden, but I totally support what he did regardless of why he did it.

I'm just arguing that Apple should agree to government giving them the phone and they give government the data. There is no downside to that for them. Anyone knows now they can backdoor the data. If that doesn't meet someone's security requirement, then they already aren't going to use apple phones.

I think Apple should go with private key public key encryption so they can't unlock the data going forward. But as long as they can get this data, they should do it

I'm with you on that if Apple can do it safely, but according to Apple, it's a security risk.

I don't want to pretend I understand it all because I don't. It would seem like common sense to make this program to get the data, then destroy everything, but according to Apple, once it's made, you can't put that Genie back in the bottle.

Short of killing everyone who worked on cracking the encryption, you can't. That would put Apple one disgruntled employee (or one blackmailed employee) away from catastrophe.

One need simply look at the cavalier manner in which Bill's wife treated classified emails to see what would happen to any security once Apple submitted to the intimation.


Judge Napolitano:
"Apple has argued that the government has no legal right to compel it to assist in a government investigation, or to compel it to alter or destroy its business model of guaranteeing the safety and privacy of its customers' data. Apple knows that any "key" it creates for the FBI, once used on the Internet, is itself vulnerable to hacking, thereby jeopardizing all Apple products and negating the privacy of tens of millions, and even exposing the government to foreign hackers.

The warrant was improperly granted because Apple was not given notice of the DoJ application. So, the judge who issued the order denied Apple due process -- its day in court. That alone is sufficient to invalidate the order.

...DoJ has obtained the most unique search warrant I have ever seen in 40 years of examining them. Here, the DoJ has persuaded a judge to issue a search warrant for A THING THAT DOES NOT EXIST, by forcing Apple to create a key that the FBI is incapable of creating.
There is no authority for the government to compel a nonparty to its case to do its work,...

There is more at stake here than the privacy of Apple's millions of customers and the security of power grids and all that the Internet serves. Personal liberty in a free society is at stake. A government that stays within the confines of the Constitution is at stake."
Judge Andrew Napolitano - Apple's Involuntary Servitude

Emphasizing


"The warrant was improperly granted because Apple was not given notice of the DoJ application. So, the judge who issued the order denied Apple due process -- its day in court. That alone is sufficient to invalidate the order. "

But the berners, socialists, government supremacists , the envious choose to ignore that fact.


.

 

[HenryBHough]

Shocking!

Days and days of these demands that privacy be a thing of the past and those taking that position still fail to post their names, addresses, social security and bank account numbers.

What is it that you're hiding?