FEMA Deceives Nation About Twin Towers Core

[Gamolon]

Then provide your scaled drawing Chris. You're not afraid of something are you?

Same crap. Basing your dimensions on the silverstein plans which are proven to be erroneous is a fraudulent premise and you do that for the purpose of protecting the secret methods of mass murder and destruction of the Consitution.

of course the fact has always been so and I've always asked and you've always evaded. Sick.

I said use YOUR dimensions. It's easy to get elevators sizes and such.

Coward. Quit making excuses. You don't need the Robertson plans.

 

[Gamolon]

am well aware of the properties of steel...and the temperatures and durations of the fire

You are?

Then at what temperature does steel begin to melt and at what temperature does steel begin to lose it's strength (or weaken)?

 

[Albury Smith]

steel doesn't...catch fire

No, but heat WEAKENS it and fire DOES produce heat you know. Heat can weaken steel to a point that it fails. Were you aware of that?

Can you answer a simple question for me? If steel can't catch fire (like I apparently thought it did ), can you explain why they put fireproofing on steel beam and columns?

even a guess would suffice at this point.

I am well aware of the properties of steel...and the temperatures and durations of the fire are not sufficient to cause such a collapse or to create molten metal...thermal cutting however would explain both...

That is simply untrue. Steel loses ~half of its room-temperature strength around 1100F, and office fires easily get that hot, which is why SFRM, concrete, gypsum, or other fireproofing material is required in all building codes for steel in hi-rises. The 2700 F you previously cited is at or near the melting point, and no steel in the WTC melted to cause the collapses.
You've also misrepresented Les Robertson's role in the tower design. He was the structural engineer of record for both of them, and he considers your demolition theories ludicrous. Here's a video of him saying exactly what he thinks of your nonsense:
World Trade Center Not a Demolition

 

[Albury Smith]

No, but heat WEAKENS it and fire DOES produce heat you know. Heat can weaken steel to a point that it fails. Were you aware of that?

Can you answer a simple question for me? If steel can't catch fire (like I apparently thought it did ), can you explain why they put fireproofing on steel beam and columns?

even a guess would suffice at this point.

I am well aware of the properties of steel...and the temperatures and durations of the fire are not sufficient to cause such a collapse or to create molten metal...thermal cutting however would explain both...

If there were steel core columns in the core, which there weren't as can be seen here in the area to the right of the fince, lightly arced vertical elements,

Thermite cutting of vertical surfaces is very difficult and requires a fixture. Such a fixture requires access to all faces of a box column. It surrounds the box column creating a vessle for the thermite which is liquid when burning. It will quickly penetrate, but it must sit in a very undisturbed mass, for the entire time, or penetration will not remain focused and the severing operation is compromised.

When such cutting is done a substancial amount of over kill is calculated in which essentially makes an event where a considerably larger amount of steel is melted, than actually needs to be cut. With that much molten steel, a lot of it from the upper elevations downwards, is going to be falling and flipping all over the place. Be cognizant of the claim of 47 columns, the fact of aprox. 40 foot pieces around GZ, = 1,300 cuts. Molten blobs of steel will be randomly scattered around the building for over a hundred feet.

We did not see any of that. Nor did we see any column cut in such a way at GZ. The appearance is very distinct, rounded, not linear, as the molten thermite leaves the vessal and applies its burning mass with gravity on the steel. It begins to fall along the plane of the box column wall. Messy.

Do we see any molten steel here?

No, we see a massive and amazingly uniform debris wave of sand, gravel and concrete.

Geeeeeeeeeeeeee, I wonder where all that came from?



The nano thermite explosive is a strict fantasy.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd121/88Badmachine88/IH1.jpg

Ordinary high density, high explosives were used everywhere above ground.

Here is the delay and detonation pattern at the towers on 9-11. Who knows enough to identify what kind of an auditory quality it has and why?

Here is a comparison to the most dense, practically, and fastest used in a

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=tZRAbUcUkIc]Linear shaped charge[/ame]

Your second photo is one of Crazy Judy Wood's favorites, and it's on a number of pages at her web site. It was taken as the South Tower collapsed, from due south of it and right in line with the North Tower, which is burning in the background. It was taken just before the collapse got low enough to show the North Tower, and she claims that the darker North Tower smoke is from the South tower, and proof that it exploded upward. Her web site describes the two-toned "explosions" in the South Tower. How much more dishonest can you truther nuts get?

 

[Gamolon]

did you see the natgeo special on last night about the conspiracy theories on 9/11?
it was fantastic

No.



I have to catch a rerun of it. I was busy with my 4 crumbsnatchers (kids).

It comes on again this Saturday night (2 broadcasts).

I will be on vacation but I have it set to Tivo.

Can't wait to see them get busted in the mouth once more.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Albury Smith]

No.



I have to catch a rerun of it. I was busy with my 4 crumbsnatchers (kids).

It comes on again this Saturday night (2 broadcasts).

I will be on vacation but I have it set to Tivo.

Can't wait to see them get busted in the mouth once more.

Thanks for the info!

I saw it, and it's a lost cause. Facts and evidence don't faze Gage, Griffin, Jones, Avery, and Co. The only way to shut those nuts up would be to tell them to get some of their "special thermite," a steel column, and a video recorder and demonstrate it for us. They should get a paint roller or brush too, since they claim the "explosives" were painted on the WTC steel. NIST should publicly offer them their Maryland facility for this, and I doubt they'd ever be bothered by the "truth movement" again.

 

[Gamolon]

you crack me up cause office fires dont even come close to the temp needed to weaken the steel structures.jet fuel only burns at 1500.

Let's dissect your garbage shall we?

What about the ensuing office fire STARTED by the jet fuel being ignited? Here is a great site that shows you have no clue as to what you are talking about.

Temperatures in flames and fires

A candle flame can reach temperatures of 1400C (2552F). A room fire can reach temperatures of 1093C (1999F).

To even begin to weaken the steel support columns the fires need to get to temps of at LEAST 2700.

Really? 2700? That's the MELTING point of steel. Steel starts to weaken at about 230C (446F) and only retains 10% of it's initial strength at 750C (1382F)

SUPERIOR FIRE RESISTANCE

According to the site above, a house fire can reach 593C (1100F) in 3 1/2 minutes.

You guys just read the bullshit handed to you and don't research any further do you? So again. If the engineers nowadays know the difference between the MELTING point of steel and the point at which steel begins to WEAKEN, how did Robertson/Skilling miss the fact that a large office fire would reach temperatures that would SIGNIFICANTLY weaken steel columns and beams?

 

[Gamolon]

fire are not sufficient to cause such a collapse or to create molten metal...

You ARE aware that there was a bunch of ALUMINUM cladding on the perimeter columns right? How do you know that the "molten metal" you refer to was not ALUMINUM? ALUMINUM has a melting point of 660C (1220F). There have been studies that suggest office fires can reach temperatures of 1300F.

 

[Toro]

No.



I have to catch a rerun of it. I was busy with my 4 crumbsnatchers (kids).

It comes on again this Saturday night (2 broadcasts).

I will be on vacation but I have it set to Tivo.

Can't wait to see them get busted in the mouth once more.

Thanks for the info!

Where is it on?

 

[Christophera]

except that photo does NOT show a 12' X 5' concrete wall
and its TOO big for the forum

If you refuse to recognize obvious aspects of evidence in images, then you are the problem, not the image.

Your credibility is non existent after you support the secret means of mass murder with unreasonable denial.

 

[Gamolon]

except that photo does NOT show a 12' X 5' concrete wall
and its TOO big for the forum

If you refuse to recognize obvious aspects of evidence in images, then you are the problem, not the image.

Your credibility is non existent after you support the secret means of mass murder with unreasonable denial.

Where's your scaled drawing Chris?

Afraid?

 

[Christophera]

you crack me up cause office fires dont even come close to the temp needed to weaken the steel structures.jet fuel only burns at 1500.

Let's dissect your garbage shall we?

The fact that you refuse to use evidence and reason establishes that you prefer secret methods of mass murder and enslavement for Americans, so you criticism is not credible.

In fact it is more of your fraud working to enable the destruction of what is left of the Consitution.

When FEMA lied to NIST and the world in order to support an impossibility then you try to take advatage of it to dismiss demolition, does not mean that you can fit in with their scheme to obscure what is possible.

Fires had nothing to do with what happened. The core was concrete and if perople knew that, they would never believe the fire lie. That is why the perps have you here being so unreasonable.

Fraud.

 

[Gamolon]

you crack me up cause office fires dont even come close to the temp needed to weaken the steel structures.jet fuel only burns at 1500.

Let's dissect your garbage shall we?

The fact that you refuse to use evidence and reason establishes that you prefer secret methods of mass murder and enslavement for Americans, so you criticism is not credible.

In fact it is more of your fraud working to enable the destruction of what is left of the Consitution.

When FEMA lied to NIST and the world in order to support an impossibility then you try to take advatage of it to dismiss demolition, does not mean that you can fit in with their scheme to obscure what is possible.

Fires had nothing to do with what happened. The core was concrete and if perople knew that, they would never believe the fire lie. That is why the perps have you here being so unreasonable.

Fraud.

So prove me wrong coward!!!! You said it yourself! You can PRODUCE the scaled drawing that would prove me wrong, but won't because you don;t want to provide it to a wimp. So do it for all the blind lemmings in the world. Do it because it's the truth and it will expose me as shill and agent.

Let's see you make your core fit with all the trimmings.

Come on Mr. Truth. You can do it. I'll leave this forum also if you can prove your core design would physically fit.

I challenged you in another forum also. You're nothing but hot air at this point. If your theory was as "concrete" as you say, you'd have no problems producing that scaled drawing.

 

[Christophera]

except that photo does NOT show a 12' X 5' concrete wall
and its TOO big for the forum

If you refuse to recognize obvious aspects of evidence in images, then you are the problem, not the image.

Your credibility is non existent after you support the secret means of mass murder with unreasonable denial.

Where's your scaled drawing Chris?

Afraid?

Your basis for your dimensions is the FEMA lie supported in conspiracy by silverstein. You are a part of that conspiracy and your refusal to use evidence proves it.

The silverstein plans not not represent what was on the ground. Period, this image of GZ, of the WTC 1 core wall at its base shows a massive concrete wall where the plans you use a as dimensional basis for you fraudulent comparision show an airshaft, steam shaft and janitors closet.

You have no argument without your peanut gallery of co conspirators pretending your position is real. Your unreasonable collusion is obvious.

 

[Christophera]

Let's dissect your garbage shall we?

The fact that you refuse to use evidence and reason establishes that you prefer secret methods of mass murder and enslavement for Americans, so you criticism is not credible.

In fact it is more of your fraud working to enable the destruction of what is left of the Consitution.

When FEMA lied to NIST and the world in order to support an impossibility then you try to take advatage of it to dismiss demolition, does not mean that you can fit in with their scheme to obscure what is possible.

Fires had nothing to do with what happened. The core was concrete and if perople knew that, they would never believe the fire lie. That is why the perps have you here being so unreasonable.

Fraud.

So prove me wrong coward!!!!

Already been done may times. Here it is again.

Here is the proof again in another form.

The west concrete shear wall of the WTC 1 core wall.

 

[Christophera]

Facts and evidence don't faze Gage, Griffin, Jones, Avery, and Co. The only way to shut those nuts up would be to tell them to get some of their "special thermite," a steel column, and a video recorder and demonstrate it for us.

From my perspective this statement puts all of those you've mentioned, you, silverstein, FEMA and the perpetrators all on the same team working to keep the methods of mass murder on 9-11 secret.

gage and the rest support an impossibility to obscure the possible you are here to maintain support for the deception.

 

[Christophera]

I am well aware of the properties of steel...and the temperatures and durations of the fire are not sufficient to cause such a collapse or to create molten metal...thermal cutting however would explain both...

If there were steel core columns in the core, which there weren't as can be seen here in the area to the right of the fince, lightly arced vertical elements,

Thermite cutting of vertical surfaces is very difficult and requires a fixture. Such a fixture requires access to all faces of a box column. It surrounds the box column creating a vessle for the thermite which is liquid when burning. It will quickly penetrate, but it must sit in a very undisturbed mass, for the entire time, or penetration will not remain focused and the severing operation is compromised.

When such cutting is done a substancial amount of over kill is calculated in which essentially makes an event where a considerably larger amount of steel is melted, than actually needs to be cut. With that much molten steel, a lot of it from the upper elevations downwards, is going to be falling and flipping all over the place. Be cognizant of the claim of 47 columns, the fact of aprox. 40 foot pieces around GZ, = 1,300 cuts. Molten blobs of steel will be randomly scattered around the building for over a hundred feet.

We did not see any of that. Nor did we see any column cut in such a way at GZ. The appearance is very distinct, rounded, not linear, as the molten thermite leaves the vessal and applies its burning mass with gravity on the steel. It begins to fall along the plane of the box column wall. Messy.

Do we see any molten steel here?

No, we see a massive and amazingly uniform debris wave of sand, gravel and concrete.

Geeeeeeeeeeeeee, I wonder where all that came from?



The nano thermite explosive is a strict fantasy.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd121/88Badmachine88/IH1.jpg

Ordinary high density, high explosives were used everywhere above ground.

Here is the delay and detonation pattern at the towers on 9-11. Who knows enough to identify what kind of an auditory quality it has and why?

Here is a comparison to the most dense, practically, and fastest used in a

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=tZRAbUcUkIc]Linear shaped charge[/ame]

Your second photo is one of Crazy Judy Wood's favorites

Which adds evidence of inference to the assertion that wood, gage, jones, silverstein, you , FEMA and the perps are all working together.

 

[Gamolon]

If you refuse to recognize obvious aspects of evidence in images, then you are the problem, not the image.

Your credibility is non existent after you support the secret means of mass murder with unreasonable denial.

Where's your scaled drawing Chris?

Afraid?

Your basis for your dimensions is the FEMA lie supported in conspiracy by silverstein. You are a part of that conspiracy and your refusal to use evidence proves it.

The silverstein plans not not represent what was on the ground. Period, this image of GZ, of the WTC 1 core wall at its base shows a massive concrete wall where the plans you use a as dimensional basis for you fraudulent comparision show an airshaft, steam shaft and janitors closet.

You have no argument without your peanut gallery of co conspirators pretending your position is real. Your unreasonable collusion is obvious.

Wow you are stupid.

As I have said COUNTLESS times, you can use the dimensions that you parrot on a daily basis. You now the ones. The ones that you did for the following dimensioned core oh so long ago:

We don't need to use the blueprints that you claim are fake. Just use the above dimensions and put the elevator support columns inside. Then add the 23 express elevators with two access doors on each end, 11 side by side on one wall and 12 side by side on the opposite wall. Then add the 24 local elevators. Then add a 16' wide hallway running the length of the long axis.

All this information can be obtained.

The reason you won't produce that scaled drawing is because you'll get this:

No room to get in between the red express elevators and the wall to access the doors. Elevators are to close together.

Come on Chris. Let's see your core!

 

[Christophera]

Where's your scaled drawing Chris?

Afraid?

Your basis for your dimensions is the FEMA lie supported in conspiracy by silverstein. You are a part of that conspiracy and your refusal to use evidence proves it.

The silverstein plans not not represent what was on the ground. Period, this image of GZ, of the WTC 1 core wall at its base shows a massive concrete wall where the plans you use a as dimensional basis for you fraudulent comparision show an airshaft, steam shaft and janitors closet.

You have no argument without your peanut gallery of co conspirators pretending your position is real. Your unreasonable collusion is obvious.

Wow you are stupid.

As I have said COUNTLESS times, you can use the dimensions that you parrot on a daily basis. You now the ones. The ones that you did for the following dimensioned core oh so long ago:

We don't need to use the blueprints that you claim are fake. Just use the above dimensions and put the elevator support columns inside. Then add the 23 express elevators with two access doors on each end,

And your elevator dimension can only come from the blueprints. If you say they don't they come from a source that takes them from the silvertein scanned blueprints which have digital alterations like this in the revision table added to make them appear more legitimate.

Your dimensional subterfuge is being done because you have no evidence of the steel core columns from 9-11 or any other independent source.

 

[candycorn]

yes Bush dupe,they took all that into accountthey even reinforced the fireproofing after the 1st bombing in 93 on the steel columns. laws of fire? you crack me up cause office fires dont even come close to the temp needed to weaken the steel structures.jet fuel only burns at 1500. To even begin to weaken the steel support columns the fires need to get to temps of at LEAST 2700. AGAIN this just proves how easy you are to be manipulated trusting what ROBERTSON says who they obviously got to. Not going to argue with someone who only lloks at what Robertson says and ignores what Skilling and Demartini said and comes up with desperate attempts to disprove what Demartini said.

Skilling was a senior partner in the firm and your ignoring what HE said and trusting what Robertson a JUNIOR partner says.Thats like trusting Bill Clinton to tell the truth about his escapades with Monica.LOL.you crack me up.You Bush dupes always grasp at straws as well to try and prove your theories correct that the planes and fires caused the towers to collapse when you blatantly ignore videos of suppressed film footage the corporate controlled media never airs that back up what witnesses said about hearing and seeing explosions in the basements BEFORE the plane struck above.Time for you to admit your scared of the truth and living in denial.

Actually steel melts at about 2,700 degrees Farenheit. It weakens at about 1100 degrees Farenheit. The fires in the WTC Towers were plenty hot enough to cause steel to weaken.

You admit the fires are 1,500 degrees in the building so you admit it was hot enough to weaken the structure.

The melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit)