Fetus can't feel pain before 24 weeks, study says

[Immanuel]

Ah so they cant feel pain they must not be People yet eh. I guess we might as well kill all the paralyzed people right now. After all there not people.

the lengths people will go to, to justify KILLING BABIES for just about any reason, is appalling to me.

If you are a women and you had an abortion for any but the most extreme reason, You are not worthy of life yourself IMO. Definitely if the only reason you did it was because you just weren't ready or didn't want a baby right now. You my friend are SCUM.

Any parent will tell you nobody is ready until they hold their kid the first time.

You dumbass, it's "Their" not people.

Actually it is "They're", the contraction for they are, but who cares?

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Correct. All of them are choices. Now you have it.

So, do you believe abortion should be legalized or not? Do you believe that our policy should give women the option to have an abortion, even though you personally abhor it? You hit the nail on the head because about the same number of abortions are attempted if it's illegal, but more women die from refused medical services. So do you believe women should have the choice to have a legal abortion or not?

Despite your pontificating upon your superior intellect, that doesn't really wash right now.
1. Abortion IS legal. What the hell, do you be believe it should be legalized or not? Do you mean "do you believe it should be legal?" because that is a completely different thing. Perhaps you should drag out that APA handbook while the rest of the serfs are dusting off their dictionaries.
2. There is absolutely no evidence that there are the same number of abortions now as there were when it was illegal. There are no stats. Abortion clinics refuse to disclose, and there are no records of course on illegal abortions (or on legal ones, how odd). The consensus isn't that there are fewer abortions now but many, many more.
3. Women also die from abortions. PARTICULARLY in third world countries where you and your friends want to transport abortion under the guise of "sex education and preventative medicine".

If they were really about pro choice, how about letting them choose to have the baby or abort themselves, would you be okay with that? I would

Abort themselves? You mean suicide?

No, that is not the answer. And no, I would not support that as an option either.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Pro-choice simply means believing that the individual has the right to make the choice...not someone else.

It would be easy enough to eliminate the vast majority of abortions. Sell the morning after pill over the counter in all the places condoms are sold.

But of course this outrages the control freaks among us because it means that women might get the idea that they are free to have sex whenever they want to have sex.

And when you get right down to it, "conservatives" are more concerned with making women think sex is shameful than they are about abortion...forbidding abortion is just one of their tools to accomplish that goal....

If you are talking about conservative men, I want to know what makes you think any functioning male would want to make women think sex is shameful.

I hate to tell you this, but, as a functioning male, that statement seems just plain preposterous to me.

Immie

 

[ConHog]

Despite your pontificating upon your superior intellect, that doesn't really wash right now.
1. Abortion IS legal. What the hell, do you be believe it should be legalized or not? Do you mean "do you believe it should be legal?" because that is a completely different thing. Perhaps you should drag out that APA handbook while the rest of the serfs are dusting off their dictionaries.
2. There is absolutely no evidence that there are the same number of abortions now as there were when it was illegal. There are no stats. Abortion clinics refuse to disclose, and there are no records of course on illegal abortions (or on legal ones, how odd). The consensus isn't that there are fewer abortions now but many, many more.
3. Women also die from abortions. PARTICULARLY in third world countries where you and your friends want to transport abortion under the guise of "sex education and preventative medicine".

If they were really about pro choice, how about letting them choose to have the baby or abort themselves, would you be okay with that? I would

Abort themselves? You mean suicide?

No, that is not the answer. And no, I would not support that as an option either.

Immie

IF you had read a few posts later, I said I was joking

 

[Immanuel]

If they were really about pro choice, how about letting them choose to have the baby or abort themselves, would you be okay with that? I would

Abort themselves? You mean suicide?

No, that is not the answer. And no, I would not support that as an option either.

Immie

IF you had read a few posts later, I said I was joking

I caught that... a few posts later.

Immie

 

[ConHog]

Pro-choice simply means believing that the individual has the right to make the choice...not someone else.

It would be easy enough to eliminate the vast majority of abortions. Sell the morning after pill over the counter in all the places condoms are sold.

But of course this outrages the control freaks among us because it means that women might get the idea that they are free to have sex whenever they want to have sex.

And when you get right down to it, "conservatives" are more concerned with making women think sex is shameful than they are about abortion...forbidding abortion is just one of their tools to accomplish that goal....

If you are talking about conservative men, I want to know what makes you think any functioning male would want to make women think sex is shameful.

I hate to tell you this, but, as a functioning male, that statement seems just plain preposterous to me.

Immie

No shit, right?

 

[Mr Natural]

This question has probably been asked a million times, but why is it these pro-lifers only give a shit about a baby before it's born? Afterwards it could go fuck itself for all they care regardless of the conditions or situation it was born into.

Hypocritical assholes.

 

[ConHog]

This question has probably been asked a million times, but why is it these pro-lifers only give a shit about a baby before it's born? Afterwards it could go fuck itself for all they care regardless of the conditions or situation it was born into.

Hypocritical assholes.

link please?

 

[Immanuel]

This question has probably been asked a million times, but why is it these pro-lifers only give a shit about a baby before it's born? Afterwards it could go fuck itself for all they care regardless of the conditions or situation it was born into.

Hypocritical assholes.

That comment is as wrong as saying, "everyone who supports choice despises children and worships the abortion gods."

Immie

 

[Care4all]

Immie, on the other abortion thread that strolling bones started I asked a question about this Scripture, and maybe you have some insight on it that you can help me with....

someone quoted God saying to Jeremiah, that He knew Jeremiah before he was formed in his mother's womb....

WHAT exactly does this mean?

That Jeremiah was alive in Heaven somewhere and God knew him? That God knew Jeremiah BEFORE he was even formed so even though jeremiah had not even been conceived yet, God knew him? And if God knew him before he was formed in his mother's womb, does that mean if Jeremiah was aborted or his mother had a miscarriage, that Jeremiah is still alive somewhere in the heavens?

 

[saveliberty]

I would be interested in getting Immie's take too. For me, I understand it to mean God is beyond time and knows all for all eternity. Therefore, he knows everything and everyone at every time past, present and future.

 

[Cuyo]

Ah so they cant feel pain they must not be People yet eh. I guess we might as well kill all the paralyzed people right now. After all there not people.

the lengths people will go to, to justify KILLING BABIES for just about any reason, is appalling to me.

If you are a women and you had an abortion for any but the most extreme reason, You are not worthy of life yourself IMO. Definitely if the only reason you did it was because you just weren't ready or didn't want a baby right now. You my friend are SCUM.

Any parent will tell you nobody is ready until they hold their kid the first time.

You dumbass, it's "Their" not people.

Illiterate grammar police should be shot.

They're/their/there

You are a fucking moron.

Yes, thanks. I was being ironical. But then I think you already knew that.

 

[Cuyo]

If you believe it's a human life and human life must be defended, now matter how rudimentary, where are you on the death penalty? Do we have anyone here who is pro-life (not to get into semantics, I mean someone who thinks abortion should be illegal), but is also anti-death penalty? For some reason, it seems to be hard to find one of them.

Further, where are you pro-lifers in situations where the mother's health is in jeapordy?

 

[Immanuel]

Immie, on the other abortion thread that strolling bones started I asked a question about this Scripture, and maybe you have some insight on it that you can help me with....

someone quoted God saying to Jeremiah, that He knew Jeremiah before he was formed in his mother's womb....

WHAT exactly does this mean?

That Jeremiah was alive in Heaven somewhere and God knew him? That God knew Jeremiah BEFORE he was even formed so even though jeremiah had not even been conceived yet, God knew him? And if God knew him before he was formed in his mother's womb, does that mean if Jeremiah was aborted or his mother had a miscarriage, that Jeremiah is still alive somewhere in the heavens?

Jeremiah 1:4-6

4 The word of the LORD came to me, saying,

5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew [a] you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

6 "Ah, Sovereign LORD," I said, "I do not know how to speak; I am only a child."

Insight into that?

Geez thanks, Care, nothing like putting me on the spot, now is there?


First, to me insight insinuates knowledge. I have no knowledge of what that verse truthfully means. I do have my thoughts about it.

Romans 8:28-30

28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[j] who[k] have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Since scripture interprets scripture, I would say that since we have been predestined by God, that means God knew us (each of us) from before we were actually born. Whether that means we actually stood in the presence of God before our birth or he just knew us as one knows that the sun will rise tomorrow, I don't know for sure.

Let's try this differently:

That Jeremiah was alive in Heaven somewhere and God knew him?

The verse does not say that. The verse says that God knew him before he was born. It does not say that Jeremiah knew God before he was born. Since we believe God is omniscient, it would mean that God knows all of us before we are born. It is possible we also know God, but that is not what the verse says.

That God knew Jeremiah BEFORE he was even formed so even though jeremiah had not even been conceived yet, God knew him?

That is closer to what the verse says. God knew Jeremiah before he was conceived. One would have to understand what context the word "knew" was used here. Is it like this, "Hey Care, I know you from school, you were in my Intermediate Algebra Class in college. Remember me, I always sat in the back of the class on the right?" or was it that God knows us all because he knows all things?

if God knew him before he was formed in his mother's womb, does that mean if Jeremiah was aborted or his mother had a miscarriage, that Jeremiah is still alive somewhere in the heavens?

Jeremiah was born and died. Is he in heaven today?

Let's take Jeremiah out of this picture and state that my wife lost our first child. Will that child someday greet me in heaven? I honestly do not know for sure. I would like to think so, but I don't know for sure. I was reading something the other day about a child dying in the womb and the preacher said that since the child had not reached the age of accountability it was not responsible for its sins. Of course, it did not mention what that age is or was.

If that preacher is correct then really we should not be concerned about abortion, because one way or another the child ends up in the arms of the Lord. In fact, the child would be better off dying in the womb and getting a free pass to heaven rather than risking reaching the "age of accountability" here on earth and risking eternity in Hell. Don't you think?

All I can say that I know for sure is that the verse tells us that God knows us before we are born. It does not even say that we know God before we are born.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

If you believe it's a human life and human life must be defended, now matter how rudimentary, where are you on the death penalty? Do we have anyone here who is pro-life (not to get into semantics, I mean someone who thinks abortion should be illegal), but is also anti-death penalty? For some reason, it seems to be hard to find one of them.

Further, where are you pro-lifers in situations where the mother's health is in jeapordy?

Good question.

I am pro-life although I do not believe overturning Roe and making abortion illegal is the solution to ending abortion.

I used to be pro-death penalty and still am in certain situations. Not that I want to put anyone to death, but there are I believe certain crimes that justify the Death Penalty, such as mass murder, i.e. Tim McVeigh or if the 9/11 terrorists had survived, I wouldn't bat an eye sending them to the chair. However, those who oppose the death penalty make a good case that it is used disproportionately against certain races and I understand that there have been more than one or two people that were executed only to find out later that they were innocent.

In extreme cases, I can go with the death penalty, but I emphasize extreme in that statement.

Immie

 

[Zoom-boing]

Obviously you have no human feelings at all if you can't feel compassion for a woman who must give up her child.

Obviously you have no human feelings at all if you can't feel compassion for an unborn human being ripped apart and destroyed, with his mother's consent.

When have I ever mocked what happens to a fetus during an abortion?
I think your heartless and cruel post above demonstrates without any doubt that you could not care less about women or children or even fetuses. All you care about is the idea that a fetus must be regarded as a human being.

Yes, the fetus is a human being and that human life trumps the discomfort and emotional trauma a woman must endure when she gives her child up for adoption.

Pssst, you ignored my mocking your hypocrisy in my first post and turned it around to say I don't care about the woman. Typical.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Did you know that Steve Jobs was adopted? I didn't.

HowStuffWorks "13 Famous People Who Were Adopted"

Adoption gives the kids a chance; abortion ends their existence.

I agree with letting homosexuals/singles adopt.

Wow! Over a hundred million children are orphans in this world, but you were able to find THIRTEEN that became famous! Aren't you so clever with those high success rates!

Wasn't trying to be clever at all. Obviously you're too dense to get my point.

Obviously you have no human feelings at all if you can't feel compassion for an unborn human being ripped apart and destroyed, with his mother's consent no less!

Why? Let's really examine this. Who is supposed to be feeling the pain here? The woman? Clearly not, if she's getting an abortion. The fetus? Well that was just shot down. Who?

Oh, you mean people like you, who have ZERO invested interest in the actual people involved. Yes, let's change our policy because somewhere in the world, someone might have a theoretical problem with someone else's actions. You tell me who is feeling the pain.

Am I understanding that you believe (according to this 'study') that if the fetus can't feel pain abortion isn't the destruction of human life?

 

[SmarterThanHick]

So let's recap this thread. The people who are pro-choice use the following reasoning:

• Relevant controlled published scientific literature
• Excerpts taken from medical dictionaries
• Ethical decision making from factual evidence, regardless of personal belief

Pro-life people, on the other hand, need to resort to the following to make their points:

• Cherry picking. This is seen throughout the thread, and includes:
  • Pointing out 13 famous people that were adopted and ignoring the 100 million orphaned children
  • Using the unpublished opinion of a single person from decades ago as "proof"
• Ignoring scientific or medical knowledge
• Avoiding a discussion on the ethical concepts of such things as murder and life
• Finding word associations and claiming they are legitimate dictionaries
• Making incongruous comparison fallacies (claiming a fetus is equal to an old person)
• Providing no factual support or evidence for anything said

So one side in this thread consistently uses factual evidence, and the other side consistently uses stretches of the imagination and poor comparisons. Here are new examples:

Pinko coward liar.

PRINCETON WORDNET

It's still not a dictionary.

Good for you. You condone murder.

And you still won't give the ethical reasons why murder is wrong. Are you having trouble with this simple concept? I can only assume you avoid engaging in truthful conversation because you already know you would prove yourself wrong.

What doctors who do not profit from baby butchering say...

The unsubstantiated opinion of one doctor from the 80s does not compare to a controlled published scientific study 30 years later. You are trying to refute a mountain with a pebble.

Don't forget about old people on oxygen pumps. Fuck them, they aren't breathing on their own, they ain't human, so it ain't murder.

A moronic comparison, but I wouldn't expect less from you. Let met know if you're still having trouble understanding the difference between established life, and non-established life. Also, please note that doctor assisted suicide is illegal in Oregon for a reason.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

LONDON - British health experts say the human fetus cannot feel pain before the age of 24 weeks, so there is no reason to change the country's abortion laws.

The government-commissioned study is a setback for anti-abortion activists, who want the country's current 24-week time limit for terminations reduced.

The study says that nerve connections in the brain are not sufficiently formed to allow pain perception before 24 weeks.


Fetus can't feel pain before 24 weeks, study says - More health news- msnbc.com

tossed out for your opinion and discussion

will this change anyone's mind?

Why would it?Exactly what does a Human fetus grow into? Why a human of course.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

This question has probably been asked a million times, but why is it these pro-lifers only give a shit about a baby before it's born? Afterwards it could go fuck itself for all they care regardless of the conditions or situation it was born into.

Hypocritical assholes.

What a disingenuous bunch of horseshit. Me personally, I have always supported a woman's right to choose...it's her body after all....but to say that pro lifers don't care about kids or the conditions they are raised in is an out and out LIE.....you think a socialist nation where the government coddles you from day one until you drop dead on the factory floor is the way to go? FUCK THAT!!!
You make your own way through life and make your own opportunities in life based on the values and morals taught to you by your parents. It's NOT the governments job to be your fucking parents.