Fetus can't feel pain before 24 weeks, study says

[AllieBaba]

This question has probably been asked a million times, but why is it these pro-lifers only give a shit about a baby before it's born? Afterwards it could go fuck itself for all they care regardless of the conditions or situation it was born into.

Hypocritical assholes.

Prove that, asshole. Because I can tell you right now, most of the people I've worked with in human services, both those on salaries and those who do it as volunteers, are CONSERVATIVES.

So go ahead an prove your assertion.

 

[arKangel]

Dr. Jean Wright, a pediatrician specializing in critically ill children and anesthesiology, told the committee that fetuses begin developing nerve endings as early as the sixth week of gestation.

But because a fetus has yet to develop normal human coping mechanisms, the fetus may even suffer more than an adult, she said.

"The anatomy is there. The physiology is there. And, thirdly, we know the sensitivity to pain is ... more intense," Wright testified

On March 13, 2000 the U.K.'s Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists became the first medical organization to warn its abortion practitioners, saying that Dr. Brind's review was methodologically sound and that the abortion-breast cancer research "could not be disregarded."
[“Evidence-based Guideline No. 7: The Care of Women Requesting Induced Abortion” (2000) RCOG Press, p. 29-30]

Later that summer after the London press learned of the RCOG’s warning, the BBC and The Guardian strenuously objected. Angry, post-abortive women, who hadn’t been informed of the breast cancer risk, called their doctors to learn what they could do to reduce their risks and otherwise protect their health. After being intimidated by members of the press who don't respect human life, the RCOG put its tail between its legs and dutifully withdrew the warning.

The incident reveals the cowardice of the RCOG’s leadership. It demonstrates what the medical group was willing to say when it thought it was politically safe to do so.

Today, the RCOG says that the relationship between abortion and breast cancer is "inconclusive."...

...The RCOG says it relies on the supposed findings of an abortionist, David Grimes, who is affiliated with the population control group, Family Health International.

It is a faculty of the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists established on the 26th March 1993 as the Faculty of Family Planning and Reproductive Health Care. In 2007 the organisation changed its name to the Faculty of Sexual and Reproductive Healthcare as this was more relevant to the current functions of the specialty.

The Faculty grants diplomas, certificates, fellowships and equivalent recognition of specialist knowledge and skills in sexual and reproductive health care.

As a body it promotes conferences and lectures, provides an clinical advisory service and publishes the Journal of Family Planning and Reproductive Health Care.
Why a Faculty?

Over the past three decades sexual and reproductive health care has developed and evolved with its own professional criteria, skills and requirements for continuing education and recognition. It was recognised that there was a need for an educational body to:

1.

Give academic status to the discipline of sexual and reproductive health care and recognise the expertise within it.
2.

Maintain and develop standards of care and training and ensure that a high quality of practice is maintained by all providers of sexual and reproductive health care.
3.

Promote the effective interaction of reproductive health care with related disciplines.
4.

To gather, collate and provide information in support of basic and continuing education in the discipline.
5.

To advance medical knowledge in the discipline and encourage audit and research.
6.

To support and represent those working in the discipline at regional, national and international levels.

Abortion Care Study Day, 28 April 2008 - Consensus Statement | Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists

The Abortion Care Study Day a was jointly sponsored by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) and the Faculty of Sexual and Reproductive Healthcare (FSRH). The goal was to identify effective ways to improve services for women, with a focus on achieving women-centred, comprehensive abortion care throughout the UK.

Yep, what we have here is a case of baby butchers concocting their own "study" condoning baby butchering.

So lets get the facts straight...
Fact:
Members of the "Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists" practice baby butchering for profit.
The "study" MSNBC is propagandizing is not factual and is clearly biased.

Fact:
Those pinko's who support baby butchering for profit LIE, simply observe the comments in this thread.


Fact:
Abortion is homicide. A distinct human being loses their life in the process.

Human Embryology
William J. Larsen
3rd edition, 2001

“In this text, we begin our description of the developing human with the formation and differentiation of the male and female sex cells or gametes, which will unite at fertilization to initiate the embryonic development of a new individual” (p. 1)

“After the oocyte finishes meiosis, the paternal and maternal chromosomes come together, resulting in the formation of a zygote containing a single diploid nucleus.
Embryonic development is considered to begin at this point. The newly formed embryo undergoes a series of cells divisions called cleavage as it travels down the oviduct toward the uterus.
The cleavage divisions subdivide the zygote first into two cells, then into four, then into eight, and so on.” (p. 1-3)

Libertarians for Life - Abortion and the Question of the Person

A. Basic human embryological facts

To begin with, scientifically something very radical occurs between the processes of gametogenesis and fertilization — the change from a simple part of one human being (i.e., a sperm) and a simple part of another human being (i.e., an oocyte — usually referred to as an "ovum" or "egg"), which simply possess "human life", to a new, genetically unique, newly existing, individual, whole living human being (an embryonic single-cell human zygote).
That is, upon fertilization, parts of human beings have actually been transformed into something very different from what they were before; they have been changed into a single, whole human being. During the process of fertilization, the sperm and the oocyte cease to exist as such, and a new human being is produced.

Pinko's claim to be so elite, why don't they actually post unbiased evidence? They can't, they would rather play semantic games or just plain make up their own personal definitions to the language.

They expect people to believe that baby butchers actually tell the truth about anything?
Silly pinko's.


Why don't the pinko's answer the simple question of why they hate babies so much?

 

[Jack Fate]

So I guess the point of the OP is that if the fetus can't feel pain until 2 weeks it's okay to murder it? How nice.

I tell ya what. Let me take one of you pro abortion people and put you under anesthesia so you can't feel any pain and then let me suck your brains out. You won't feel a thing and it will be just fine.

 

[Ravi]

Pro-choice simply means believing that the individual has the right to make the choice...not someone else.

It would be easy enough to eliminate the vast majority of abortions. Sell the morning after pill over the counter in all the places condoms are sold.

But of course this outrages the control freaks among us because it means that women might get the idea that they are free to have sex whenever they want to have sex.

And when you get right down to it, "conservatives" are more concerned with making women think sex is shameful than they are about abortion...forbidding abortion is just one of their tools to accomplish that goal....

If you are talking about conservative men, I want to know what makes you think any functioning male would want to make women think sex is shameful.

I hate to tell you this, but, as a functioning male, that statement seems just plain preposterous to me.

Immie

I was talking about "conservatives" which is quite a bit different than conservatives.

 

[blu]

Ewe... how do you do that study?

um I assume you could track when nerves become active? assuming they mean physical pain only

 

[blu]

Murder vs. Convenience and selfishness...

Doesn't change my mind.

what if the mom is raped? what if the mom will die giving birth?

 

[Immanuel]

Pro-choice simply means believing that the individual has the right to make the choice...not someone else.

It would be easy enough to eliminate the vast majority of abortions. Sell the morning after pill over the counter in all the places condoms are sold.

But of course this outrages the control freaks among us because it means that women might get the idea that they are free to have sex whenever they want to have sex.

And when you get right down to it, "conservatives" are more concerned with making women think sex is shameful than they are about abortion...forbidding abortion is just one of their tools to accomplish that goal....

If you are talking about conservative men, I want to know what makes you think any functioning male would want to make women think sex is shameful.

I hate to tell you this, but, as a functioning male, that statement seems just plain preposterous to me.

Immie

I was talking about "conservatives" which is quite a bit different than conservatives.

Am I a "conservative" or a conservative? Just wondering because although I agree with many points that the conservatives, or is it "conservatives", make, I also can see where a lot of liberals or are they "liberals" come from.

I have come to the conclusion that I am not conservative as conservatives think, because I happen to think that they go too far.

Hell, who is fully conservative or fully liberal? Not even Obama can be called completely lost... er I mean liberal.

Immie

 

[blu]

so kannapolis person.....do you allow any exceptions?

No exception and in the case of rape the rapist would pay the price with his life. That would end a lot of rapes.

so you are one of those ingenious pro-life and pro-death penalty people?

also, dumbass, mandatory death penalty for rape isn't going to stop people

 

[blu]

my opinion on abortion....its a big business that neither party wished to stop....abortions have been around for as long as women could figure out how....there is no stopping it today....

Racism has always been around.... lets just allow it.. it isn't going to stop.

Child abuse has always been around... just allow it.. can't stop it.

Murder has always been around.. no big deal... decriminalize it.

Bigotry seems to be a human trait.. .lets just embrace it.

god damn you are dumb. besides racism, does either party campaign on any of the issues listed? what he meant, you retard, is that keeping abortion a hot topic ensures votes on both sides of the political spectrum so politicians are never going to settle it. its the same as illegal immigration.

 

[blu]

my opinion on abortion....its a big business that neither party wished to stop....abortions have been around for as long as women could figure out how....there is no stopping it today....

Racism has always been around.... lets just allow it.. it isn't going to stop.

Child abuse has always been around... just allow it.. can't stop it.

Murder has always been around.. no big deal... decriminalize it.

Bigotry seems to be a human trait.. .lets just embrace it.

Two thumbs up for you.

why would you give thumbs up to a complete idiot?

 

[blu]

so non why has neither party addressed it fully?

bush has 8 years to stop it

you are right, things are not moral due to existing.

Because it's a state issue and the federal government should nbot meddle with it.

thats why jesus nuts push for overturning roe vs wade and making an amendment

 

[blu]

they have no way of knowing this, I don't buy it for a second.

god damn you are stupid as fuck. do you really think they can't track creation of nerves? get a fucking education retard

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Pinko's claim to be so elite, why don't they actually post unbiased evidence? They can't, they would rather play semantic games or just plain make up their own personal definitions to the language.

They expect people to believe that baby butchers actually tell the truth about anything?
Silly pinko's.

Fetal Awareness - Review of Research and Recommendations for Practice | Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists
Note how my link from the royal college of obstetricians and gynaecologists has the 2010 evidence and recommendations, and you continue to use out of context quotes and outdated information. I know this is a difficult concept for morons such as yourself, but 2010 comes AFTER the 1980s.

So again let's compare. I provide updated relevant recommendations from a credible source. You provide outdated information from unqualified bloggers and news sites. I provide dictionary definitions. You provide word associations and claim they are the same.

Are you starting to see the trend here dumbass?

So I guess the point of the OP is that if the fetus can't feel pain until 2 weeks it's okay to murder it? How nice.

I tell ya what. Let me take one of you pro abortion people and put you under anesthesia so you can't feel any pain and then let me suck your brains out. You won't feel a thing and it will be just fine.

Oh? You think the two are the same? You don't see those two scenarios as inherently different from one another? By all means, if you'd like me to call you out on being a complete moron, please continue this conversation.

 

[blu]

Firstly, you already had a chance to not be pregnant or to have terminated the pregnancy. Plenty of means exist, from condoms to Plan B. Not to mention the various herbs used through history. That's you did not act constitutes tacit consent.

what about the in the case of rape?

Secondly, let us use your same principle. Do I have a basic right to throw a man out of my house?

the person is in your house not your body

What if I throw my child out my house with no clothes in the middle of a blizzard? Oh wait, that'd be murder when (s)he died

not in your body again...

 

[blu]

No it doesn't change my mind. Nor do I believe the ''study''.

so scientists can't track creation of nerves?

 

[arKangel]

Objectively speaking, who is more qualified to access when pain is felt?

A leading anesthesiologist?
or
Baby butchers?

Dr. Vincent J. Collins, Zielinski and attorney Thomas J. Marzen were the top researchers to point to fetal pain decades ago. Collins, before his death, was Professor of Anesthesiology at Northwestern University and the University of Illinois and author of Principles of Anesthesiology, one of the leading medical texts on the control of pain.

"The functioning neurological structures necessary to suffer pain are developed early in a child's development in the womb," they wrote.

"Functioning neurological structures necessary for pain sensation are in place as early as 8 weeks, but certainly by 13 1/2 weeks of gestation. Sensory nerves, including nociceptors, reach the skin of the fetus before the 9th week of gestation. The first detectable brain activity occurs in the thalamus between the 8th and 10th weeks. The movement of electrical impulses through the neural fibers and spinal column takes place between 8 and 9 weeks gestation. By 13 1/2 weeks, the entire sensory nervous system functions as a whole in all parts of the body," they continued.

 

[blu]

I didn't read this whole stupid thread, nor do I intend to, but I must know who asked a fetus if it felt pain and if it answered, isn't that proof of consciousness?.

dumb dumb dumb. it is called nerves you dumbass, if they aren't there or active the fetus doesn't feel pain

 

[arKangel]

I provide updated relevant recommendations from a credible source.

No, you provide nothing but a propaganda piece, concocted by those who butcher babies.
Then you make up your own definitions to words.

I have clearly demonstrated that you are ignorant of the english language, and are committed to lying.

 

[blu]

This question has probably been asked a million times, but why is it these pro-lifers only give a shit about a baby before it's born? Afterwards it could go fuck itself for all they care regardless of the conditions or situation it was born into.

Hypocritical assholes.

What a disingenuous bunch of horseshit. Me personally, I have always supported a woman's right to choose...it's her body after all....but to say that pro lifers don't care about kids or the conditions they are raised in is an out and out LIE.....you think a socialist nation where the government coddles you from day one until you drop dead on the factory floor is the way to go? FUCK THAT!!!
You make your own way through life and make your own opportunities in life based on the values and morals taught to you by your parents. It's NOT the governments job to be your fucking parents.

exactly, and when you are ab orn to a crackhead with 10 other kids because she coulnd't get an abortion what morals and values do you see the kid being taught?

 

[Immanuel]

I provide updated relevant recommendations from a credible source.

No, you provide nothing but a propaganda piece, concocted by those who butcher babies.
Then you make up your own definitions to words.

I have clearly demonstrated that you are ignorant of the english language, and are committed to lying.

FYI: If you use the quote button below the post, it helps all of us to know who made the statement and we can go to that post and read the entire quote if we want to.

I think I know who posted that statement but don't know what post/page it is on, but might like to read the entire post in context.

This is just a statement, not a criticism, in case you didn't know about the quote buttons.

Immie