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Let me explain again for the slow minded. Eagles are a protected bird. You will go to prison for harming one. Obummer gave permission to green energy to massacre them. Permission. Get it now?Are they committing suicide flying into a window? A power line? Do you want to ban those, or like fucking Liberals and anti-gun laws vs. cars, do you only want to ban what you don't use?Eagles are not committing suicide when they are struck by a turbine blade.There's a law against killing eagles, but no law against eagles committing suicide.So the reason the federal law against killing eagles is waived for wind is because it makes sense to the ratepayers?https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/...-win-on-price-vs-conventional-fuels.html?_r=0Yes. The inconsistency is difficult to ignore. It makes you wonder what the green mind finds so special about wind.
Solar and Wind Energy Start to Win on Price vs. Conventional Fuels
By DIANE CARDWELLNOV. 23, 2014
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The cost of providing electricity from wind and solar power plants has plummeted over the last five years, so much so that in some markets renewable generation is now cheaper than coal or natural gas.
Utility executives say the trend has accelerated this year, with several companies signing contracts, known as power purchase agreements, for solar or wind at prices below that of natural gas, especially in the Great Plains and Southwest, where wind and sunlight are abundant.
Those prices were made possible by generous subsidies that could soon diminish or expire, but recent analyses show that even without those subsidies, alternative energies can often compete with traditional sources.
In Texas, Austin Energy signed a deal this spring for 20 years of output from a solar farm at less than 5 cents a kilowatt-hour. In September, the Grand River Dam Authority in Oklahoma announced its approval of a new agreement to buy power from a new wind farm expected to be completed next year. Grand River estimated the deal would save its customers roughly $50 million from the project.
And, also in Oklahoma, American Electric Power ended up tripling the amount of wind power it had originally sought after seeing how low the bids came in last year.
“Wind was on sale — it was a Blue Light Special,” said Jay Godfrey, managing director of renewable energy for the company. He noted that Oklahoma, unlike many states, did not require utilities to buy power from renewable sources.
“We were doing it because it made sense for our ratepayers,” he said.
According to a study by the investment banking firm Lazard, the cost of utility-scale solar energy is as low as 5.6 cents a kilowatt-hour, and wind is as low as 1.4 cents. In comparison, natural gas comes at 6.1 cents a kilowatt-hour on the low end and coal at 6.6 cents. Without subsidies, the firm’s analysis shows, solar costs about 7.2 cents a kilowatt-hour at the low end, with wind at 3.7 cents.
This was written over two years ago, and the price of both wind and solar have continued to decrease. Today many utilities in that ultra-liberal state of Texas are making major investments in the renewables. And will continue to, irregardless of the Trump administrations policies.
Nothing at all is wrong with either. Should be enforced. But even without enforcement, the roads beside the wind farms kill more raptors that the wind farms do.This is a prime example of RW ludditeness.
Even if renewables are limited at the moment the rate of development will make todays performance look laughable in a few years.
Look at the evolution of the computer or mobile phone over the past few years.
Energy development will follow the same trajectory and we will all be free of the tyranny of the power companies.
What is wrong with you people ?
What the hell is wrong with wanting wind farms to be placed away from migratory paths. Or using developed techniques to prevent the slaughter of bats?
Do we really have to kill protected species when this is preventable with proper planning?
Look dumb little shit, it is illegal to kill any raptor on purpose. However, nobody gets prosecuted for killing eagles or other raptors when they hit them with their car. And far more of both are killed with automobiles than with wind farms.I guess it is okay to massacre eagles as long as democrats say it is.
He gave then written permission to massacre eagles. Think he would give big oil permission to kill whales?Look dumb little shit, it is illegal to kill any raptor on purpose. However, nobody gets prosecuted for killing eagles or other raptors when they hit them with their car. And far more of both are killed with automobiles than with wind farms.I guess it is okay to massacre eagles as long as democrats say it is.
My, my, are you a professional liar? I have stood underneath a wind turbine in the Columbia Gorge when it was turning and good speed, and heard nothing but a gentle swoosh.Putting what are whistles, basically, on the fins, can create noises that will drive away birds when the blades are moving.
Special paints may also drive them away.
Would you want to live near a whistling wind turbine?
No. little dumb shit, he stated that the amount of eagles and raptors they killed was acceptable for the amount of power they created. Just as we accept the number killed on the highways as part of the cost of our need for transportation.He gave then written permission to massacre eagles. Think he would give big oil permission to kill whales?Look dumb little shit, it is illegal to kill any raptor on purpose. However, nobody gets prosecuted for killing eagles or other raptors when they hit them with their car. And far more of both are killed with automobiles than with wind farms.I guess it is okay to massacre eagles as long as democrats say it is.
What is the cycles per second needed for the whistles? Could it be that we can use those outside for our hearing range, like a dog whistle? And how loud does it have to be? Perhaps if you would inform us of these parameters, we would believe that you are serious about the eagles, and not just parroting the 'Conservative' talking points.Is it any worse than the drum beat of an oil pump? Or a train?Does it feed directly into my house or reduce my electric bill?Putting what are whistles, basically, on the fins, can create noises that will drive away birds when the blades are moving.
Special paints may also drive them away.
Would you want to live near a whistling wind turbine?
Why are some many here in favor of sucking OPEC's dick for energy?
That doesn't answer the question, would you want to live right near a whistling wind turbine?
How many people live near an oil pump?
As for trains, they are not constant. Like airplanes you can get used to them. But a whistle noise loud enough to scare away birds?
I have never heard of anyone prosecuted for hitting an eagle with his car. As for shooting them with a gun, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extant of the law, and never allowed to own a gun again.Are you in favor of not obeying the federal law against killing eagles for the guy who runs a wind turbine, but not the guy who hits one with his car or shoots one with a gun?So for the sake of a few kilowatts libtards are willing to make Eagles extinct. Way to go environmentalists!
I hope this is something President Trump reverses.
Final wind-turbine rule permits thousands of eagle deaths
The Obama administration on Wednesday finalized a rule that lets wind-energy companies operate high-speed turbines for up to 30 years -- even if means killing or injuring thousands of federally protected bald and golden eagles.
Why is it the Contards only love eagles when it means stopping wind power?
a) Eagles are not in danger of going 'extinct' because of this
b) This is not even on of the major causes of eagle deaths- isn't it odd that Contards like you are not actually working to stop any of the actual major causes of eagle deaths? Since you 'care' so much?
68% of Bald Eagle Deaths Are Caused by Humans |
- Electrocution by power lines
- Lead poisoning- from eagles eating animals with lead shot in them
- Shooting
- Collisions with buildings, wires, cars
- And of course habitat loss
How many eagles have been killed by wind turbines?
But at a minimum, the scientists wrote, wind farms in 10 states have killed at least 85 eagles since 1997, with most deaths occurring between 2008 and 2012, as the industry was greatly expanding.
Hmmm 85 eagles since 1997.....2 a year?
I love eagles- but if we want to save eagles- maybe we should focus on eliminating the larger threats rather than on one of the most minor threats.
OK, show us the last post you made concerning people that shoot eagles for their apparent thrill.The topic is wind turbines and ignoring federal law in the killing of eagles. Your remark that conservatives don't care about birds unless they are killed by wind turbines is actually irrelevant. Since you brought it up though, I challenge you to prove that.Are you in favor of not obeying the federal law against killing eagles for the guy who runs a wind turbine, but not the guy who hits one with his car or shoots one with a gun?So for the sake of a few kilowatts libtards are willing to make Eagles extinct. Way to go environmentalists!
I hope this is something President Trump reverses.
Final wind-turbine rule permits thousands of eagle deaths
The Obama administration on Wednesday finalized a rule that lets wind-energy companies operate high-speed turbines for up to 30 years -- even if means killing or injuring thousands of federally protected bald and golden eagles.
Why is it the Contards only love eagles when it means stopping wind power?
a) Eagles are not in danger of going 'extinct' because of this
b) This is not even on of the major causes of eagle deaths- isn't it odd that Contards like you are not actually working to stop any of the actual major causes of eagle deaths? Since you 'care' so much?
68% of Bald Eagle Deaths Are Caused by Humans |
- Electrocution by power lines
- Lead poisoning- from eagles eating animals with lead shot in them
- Shooting
- Collisions with buildings, wires, cars
- And of course habitat loss
How many eagles have been killed by wind turbines?
But at a minimum, the scientists wrote, wind farms in 10 states have killed at least 85 eagles since 1997, with most deaths occurring between 2008 and 2012, as the industry was greatly expanding.
Hmmm 85 eagles since 1997.....2 a year?
I love eagles- but if we want to save eagles- maybe we should focus on eliminating the larger threats rather than on one of the most minor threats.
Actually I am in favor of reducing harm to eagles.
We do not arrest electric companies whose power lines electrocute eagles, nor do we arrest hunters who hunt with lead shot that is injested by eagles and kills them.
The hypocrisy is rife- because the conservatives who bring this up never raise any other issues regarding any wildlife- except birds and wind turbines.
They don't care if millions of birds are killed each year by pet cats. Or that birds die from poison planted to kill coyotes and other 'nuisance' animals. They don't care if birds die when their habitat is cleared out for a coal plant.
Oddly enough- they only show up to care when it comes to complaining about alternative power production.
Which is why I always point out the major causes of eagle and raptor death- and conservatives always want to ignore them.
So we can kill whales for oil. No problem!No. little dumb shit, he stated that the amount of eagles and raptors they killed was acceptable for the amount of power they created. Just as we accept the number killed on the highways as part of the cost of our need for transportation.He gave then written permission to massacre eagles. Think he would give big oil permission to kill whales?Look dumb little shit, it is illegal to kill any raptor on purpose. However, nobody gets prosecuted for killing eagles or other raptors when they hit them with their car. And far more of both are killed with automobiles than with wind farms.I guess it is okay to massacre eagles as long as democrats say it is.
What a little lying cocksuck you are. Nobody is prosecuted because of the eagle deaths from autos, high tension line, or lead shot. But you think that prosecution is needed because you don't like windmills, which kills far fewer than any of the causes above. You are a politically driven little asshole, with no rational views worth talking about.So you are ok with not obeying laws, when the murder weapon is something you deem beneficial?Unlike the guy shooting eagles, wind turbines serve a purpose that benefits everyone.Are you in favor of not obeying the federal law against killing eagles for the guy who runs a wind turbine, but not the guy who hits one with his car or shoots one with a gun?Why is it the Contards only love eagles when it means stopping wind power?
a) Eagles are not in danger of going 'extinct' because of this
b) This is not even on of the major causes of eagle deaths- isn't it odd that Contards like you are not actually working to stop any of the actual major causes of eagle deaths? Since you 'care' so much?
68% of Bald Eagle Deaths Are Caused by Humans |
- Electrocution by power lines
- Lead poisoning- from eagles eating animals with lead shot in them
- Shooting
- Collisions with buildings, wires, cars
- And of course habitat loss
How many eagles have been killed by wind turbines?
But at a minimum, the scientists wrote, wind farms in 10 states have killed at least 85 eagles since 1997, with most deaths occurring between 2008 and 2012, as the industry was greatly expanding.
Hmmm 85 eagles since 1997.....2 a year?
I love eagles- but if we want to save eagles- maybe we should focus on eliminating the larger threats rather than on one of the most minor threats.
What murder? Who is being murdered?
I think that wind turbine owners should be held to the same standard as power companies with high voltage lines.
Which actually kill a large portion of the eagles actually killed each year- unlike wind turbines.
Actually I am in favor of reducing harm to eagles.
We do not arrest electric companies whose power lines electrocute eagles, nor do we arrest hunters who hunt with lead shot that is injested by eagles and kills them.
The hypocrisy is rife- because the conservatives who bring this up never raise any other issues regarding any wildlife- except birds and wind turbines.
They don't care if millions of birds are killed each year by pet cats. Or that birds die from poison planted to kill coyotes and other 'nuisance' animals. They don't care if birds die when their habitat is cleared out for a coal plant.
Oddly enough- they only show up to care when it comes to complaining about alternative power production.
Which is why I always point out the major causes of eagle and raptor death- and conservatives always want to ignore them.
You are still not addressing the point. Federal law prohibits the killing of eagles (so sorry the word murder upsets you! We'll just call it killing. The eagles are just as dead). When wind turbines kill eagles the law is not applied.
You are ignoring that issue and hysterically bringing up coyotes and electrocution and poisons and accusing conservatives of being hypocrites. Obviously you are more interested in railing against conservatives than actually participating in the discussion.
If you stop being intellectually dishonest, maybe we can have a conversation. Till then, you will waste no more of my time.
My goodness, little bitch, you are really reaching now. The killing of the eagles is an accident, and accepted by all for power lines, autos, and lead shot. Only when the windmills kill a few, far fewer than any of the items listed above, do you get excited. You are a hypocrite.So we can kill whales for oil. No problem!No. little dumb shit, he stated that the amount of eagles and raptors they killed was acceptable for the amount of power they created. Just as we accept the number killed on the highways as part of the cost of our need for transportation.He gave then written permission to massacre eagles. Think he would give big oil permission to kill whales?Look dumb little shit, it is illegal to kill any raptor on purpose. However, nobody gets prosecuted for killing eagles or other raptors when they hit them with their car. And far more of both are killed with automobiles than with wind farms.I guess it is okay to massacre eagles as long as democrats say it is.
Crap. Little Hypocrite, you 'Conservatives' love DDT, and it was what nearly made the eagle extinct in the lower 48. Yet to this day, you are screaming that we should use more in the US.Oh! And since this is okay with you leftists let's not hear any more whining about humans destroying the environment with fossil fuels.
LOL Yes, you have actually put your finger of a problem with the mills. They were 'not working', they were turned off of purpose for lack of need for the electricity they would produce. However, Oncor and Tesla will fix that problem in the next half decade with grid scale batteries.I drove through wind farms in Texas many of them were not even working.
The United States is Littered With More than 14,000 Abandoned Wind Turbines
Who is old fart?Crap. Little Hypocrite, you 'Conservatives' love DDT, and it was what nearly made the eagle extinct in the lower 48. Yet to this day, you are screaming that we should use more in the US.Oh! And since this is okay with you leftists let's not hear any more whining about humans destroying the environment with fossil fuels.
It is no fucking accident to put big moving blades in their flight path. How bout the solar panels frying the birds? That an accident? Any of you geniuses study the consequences? Did you laugh it off when the Valdez killed animals. As an accident. You old fart of a hypocrite you sure as hell did not.LOL Yes, you have actually put your finger of a problem with the mills. They were 'not working', they were turned off of purpose for lack of need for the electricity they would produce. However, Oncor and Tesla will fix that problem in the next half decade with grid scale batteries.I drove through wind farms in Texas many of them were not even working.
The United States is Littered With More than 14,000 Abandoned Wind Turbines
Actually, not my point, that of the Scientific American. I am not an electrical engineer, or any kind of scientist. Therefore, rather than making a flat statement in my posts, I try to back them up from reputable sources. And learn a lot doing that. As far as my language, well, I am 73, still working as a millwright in a steel mill, and have worked in sawmills and construction. Found that in order to be heard in these environments, I had to put what I had to say in terms that the production people understood and would remember. Kind of a habit, and, considering the language of many posting here, appropriate for them.This is the cost decrease over the last 6 years for a complete system, installed. If you do your own installation the price is significantly lower.According to a study by the investment banking firm Lazard, the cost of utility-scale solar energy is as low as 5.6 cents a kilowatt-hour, and wind is as low as 1.4 cents. In comparison, natural gas comes at 6.1 cents a kilowatt-hour on the low end and coal at 6.6 cents. Without subsidies, the firm’s analysis shows, solar costs about 7.2 cents a kilowatt-hour at the low end, with wind at 3.7 cents.
As long as these companies do not distribute the capital costs to build them across all its other energy revenue streams. From the wind website itself it says >>
How much do wind turbines cost? - Windustry
The costs for a utility scale wind turbine range from about $1.3 million to $2.2 million per MW of nameplate capacity installed. Most of the commercial-scale turbines installed today are 2 MW in size and cost roughly $3-$4 million installed.
So the question is how much energy does each of these turbines put out? And how many kilowatt hours will it have to generate to recover its capital cost?
As an aside, I know, maybe 10 years ago, the U of Minn spent many millions to install solar panels on some locations and the local news reported it would take 60 years (of energy cost savings) to recover its initial costs. That I would not have gone with.
The Price of Solar Is Declining to Unprecedented Lows
Put together, the reports show that all categories of solar have seen significantly declining costs since 2010. Furthermore, larger solar installations consistently beat out their smaller counterparts when it comes to the installed cost per rated Watt of solar generating capacity (or $/WDC).
The installed price of solar in dollars per Watt of rated generation capacity has declined significantly across all categories since 2010. Credit: LBNL
The installed cost includes everything needed to get a solar power system up and running: the panels, the power electronics, the mounting hardware, and the installation itself. The continued decline in total installed cost is noteworthy considering the fact that the price of the solar panels (or modules) themselves has remained relatively flat since 2012. This means that the decline in installed cost observed since 2012 was largely caused by a decline in the cost of the inverters that convert the DC power produced by solar panels to AC power for the grid and other “soft” costs such as customer acquisition, system design, installation, and permitting.
I'm going to take your word on this one. I was just expressing my one concern.
fyi, sorry I insulted you in that other thread. I'm sure you have many good ideas, but I took your comment as a regular "immediate dismisser" of all points they were opposed to.
