Fixing Inequality

[Jarhead]

It is a fact that income inequality has an impact on all the things I previously listed.

Sorry.

"It is a fact. It is a fact that it's a fact. It is a fact that it's a fact that it's a fact."

This is literally all your posts have been. Why do you not understand that making an unsubstantiated assertion does not substantiate the PREVIOUS unsubstantiated assertion? Telling us that income inequality is bad, period, does not make it so, or prove that it is so. And then coming back and telling us that it's so ALSO doesn't make it so, or prove it.

Do you really need some link to a scholarly article that shows you that income inequality or weakness in the job market leads to unemployment. Do you need some link to tell you that the more people we have below the poverty line the more people will be turning to government? Do you need a link to tell you that the US has a prison population problem?

It is dangerous to play the obtuse card.

You see, I don't think you understand what the debate is really about. No one is denying there is income inequality. There is. No doubt about it.

But why the dramatic increase in separation over the past 2 decades?

You, and others want to blame the wealthy. The overly successful. The "takers" who do not allow others to be "getters"....

I understand your position, but I disagree wholeheartedly.

I am sure you know many who have achieved success without the assistance of massive cash. Without the assistance of an expensive education. Without connections through family.

So the question is....why them and not others? Why are they able to achieve success without assistance, but others cant?

As I see it, the last generation....those that are now 25-35....grew up with the advantage of "more voices".....cable tv....24/7 news and opinion programs...and later, the internet. They have been hearing about the "excuses" as to why they can not achieve success. They are continually being told how "it is not their fault, they are victims"....

And most important...

they are labeled as "hard working Americans"...

Yet...

they aren't hard working Americans. They are WORKING AMERICANS....they have their 9-5, 2 breaks a day, a lunch break, 2 weeks vacation, personal days, bereavement days and floating holidays.

Now, if that scenario is a hard working American....then how do you label one that gets to work at 8 to make sure all is in order when the day begins; works all day and many times misses the break because of the need to "get the project done within the amount of time promised"; doesn't use all of his sick days because, well....he was never sick....goes to school at night to better his education in his career of choice....

Very hard working Americans?

Anyway....many make it despite "the man". Sure, most will never be MEGA RICH....but many will achieve an upper class living.

Work ethic is the issue......not the uber wealthy.

 

[tap4154]

It's not complicated: Liberal Big Government is smothering prosperity and opportunity in America. BO's vision is the antithesis of of what made America great, and will destroy us. IMO it's a purposeful destruction.

Funny thing is Obama wants to make "promise zones" in certain ares to encourage business growth and jobs. His formula is to cut regulations and taxes in those zones.

So he knows what works, but is doing the opposite for the rest of the nation. Heaping on more regulations every day, halting energy development on federal land, and freezing jobs with the ACA

 

[Bombur]

"It is a fact. It is a fact that it's a fact. It is a fact that it's a fact that it's a fact."

This is literally all your posts have been. Why do you not understand that making an unsubstantiated assertion does not substantiate the PREVIOUS unsubstantiated assertion? Telling us that income inequality is bad, period, does not make it so, or prove that it is so. And then coming back and telling us that it's so ALSO doesn't make it so, or prove it.

Do you really need some link to a scholarly article that shows you that income inequality or weakness in the job market leads to unemployment. Do you need some link to tell you that the more people we have below the poverty line the more people will be turning to government? Do you need a link to tell you that the US has a prison population problem?

It is dangerous to play the obtuse card.

You see, I don't think you understand what the debate is really about. No one is denying there is income inequality. There is. No doubt about it.

But why the dramatic increase in separation over the past 2 decades?

You, and others want to blame the wealthy. The overly successful. The "takers" who do not allow others to be "getters"....

I understand your position, but I disagree wholeheartedly.

I am sure you know many who have achieved success without the assistance of massive cash. Without the assistance of an expensive education. Without connections through family.

So the question is....why them and not others? Why are they able to achieve success without assistance, but others cant?

As I see it, the last generation....those that are now 25-35....grew up with the advantage of "more voices".....cable tv....24/7 news and opinion programs...and later, the internet. They have been hearing about the "excuses" as to why they can not achieve success. They are continually being told how "it is not their fault, they are victims"....

And most important...

they are labeled as "hard working Americans"...

Yet...

they aren't hard working Americans. They are WORKING AMERICANS....they have their 9-5, 2 breaks a day, a lunch break, 2 weeks vacation, personal days, bereavement days and floating holidays.

Now, if that scenario is a hard working American....then how do you label one that gets to work at 8 to make sure all is in order when the day begins; works all day and many times misses the break because of the need to "get the project done within the amount of time promised"; doesn't use all of his sick days because, well....he was never sick....goes to school at night to better his education in his career of choice....

Very hard working Americans?

Anyway....many make it despite "the man". Sure, most will never be MEGA RICH....but many will achieve an upper class living.

Work ethic is the issue......not the uber wealthy.

I don't blame the wealthy. I have clearly talked about the issue with regards to much broader economic forces.

Your post has a clear contradiction in that it tries to act like the issue is one of hard work while also pointing to broad based trends over time. This clearly suggests a change in a market as opposed to a change in the work habits of the rich.

I most certainly understand the issue but reducing the issue to hard work is comically absurd.

 

[Bombur]

It's not complicated: Liberal Big Government is smothering prosperity and opportunity in America. BO's vision is the antithesis of of what made America great, and will destroy us. IMO it's a purposeful destruction.

Funny thing is Obama wants to make "promise zones" in certain ares to encourage business growth and jobs. His formula is to cut regulations and taxes in those zones.

So he knows what works, but is doing the opposite for the rest of the nation. Heaping on more regulations every day, halting energy development on federal land, and freezing jobs with the ACA

The actions of Clinton have a bigger impact on the economics of the last 10 years than anything Obama did. If you want to reduce economic trends to who is President now then go ahead but I will have a hard time taking you seriously.

The Obama legacy will be ACA and inaction due to Republican's control of the House. The ACA is just starting. Plus it really needs to be adjusted.

 

[Jarhead]

Do you really need some link to a scholarly article that shows you that income inequality or weakness in the job market leads to unemployment. Do you need some link to tell you that the more people we have below the poverty line the more people will be turning to government? Do you need a link to tell you that the US has a prison population problem?

It is dangerous to play the obtuse card.

You see, I don't think you understand what the debate is really about. No one is denying there is income inequality. There is. No doubt about it.

But why the dramatic increase in separation over the past 2 decades?

You, and others want to blame the wealthy. The overly successful. The "takers" who do not allow others to be "getters"....

I understand your position, but I disagree wholeheartedly.

I am sure you know many who have achieved success without the assistance of massive cash. Without the assistance of an expensive education. Without connections through family.

So the question is....why them and not others? Why are they able to achieve success without assistance, but others cant?

As I see it, the last generation....those that are now 25-35....grew up with the advantage of "more voices".....cable tv....24/7 news and opinion programs...and later, the internet. They have been hearing about the "excuses" as to why they can not achieve success. They are continually being told how "it is not their fault, they are victims"....

And most important...

they are labeled as "hard working Americans"...

Yet...

they aren't hard working Americans. They are WORKING AMERICANS....they have their 9-5, 2 breaks a day, a lunch break, 2 weeks vacation, personal days, bereavement days and floating holidays.

Now, if that scenario is a hard working American....then how do you label one that gets to work at 8 to make sure all is in order when the day begins; works all day and many times misses the break because of the need to "get the project done within the amount of time promised"; doesn't use all of his sick days because, well....he was never sick....goes to school at night to better his education in his career of choice....

Very hard working Americans?

Anyway....many make it despite "the man". Sure, most will never be MEGA RICH....but many will achieve an upper class living.

Work ethic is the issue......not the uber wealthy.

I don't blame the wealthy. I have clearly talked about the issue with regards to much broader economic forces.

Your post has a clear contradiction in that it tries to act like the issue is one of hard work while also pointing to broad based trends over time. This clearly suggests a change in a market as opposed to a change in the work habits of the rich.

I most certainly understand the issue but reducing the issue to hard work is comically absurd.

Then answer me this....

The guy down the block from you (theoretically)...

He had a modest education and no connections through family.

He is subjected to the economy and all its forces, as everyone else is.

How come he was able to get to the point of making 300K a year but others cant?

 

[Jarhead]

Please explain to me how someone elses wealth is holding my 27 year old son back?

His boss is successful....don't know his bosses income, but she owns an apartment in Midtown Manhattan and a home on Dunne Road in the Hamptons.

My son, who started off as a sales assistant for her firm back when he was 22 is now the top guy in Marketing earning a base of 92K and a bonus based on targets....last year 14K......

How come he is able to get ahead?

I disagree...it is as basic as work ethic and not feeling one is entitled to success

 

[tap4154]

Please explain to me how someone elses wealth is holding my 27 year old son back?

His boss is successful....don't know his bosses income, but she owns an apartment in Midtown Manhattan and a home on Dunne Road in the Hamptons.

My son, who started off as a sales assistant for her firm back when he was 22 is now the top guy in Marketing earning a base of 92K and a bonus based on targets....last year 14K......

How come he is able to get ahead?

I disagree...it is as basic as work ethic and not feeling one is entitled to success

As a tradesman I benefit when the rich are not being attacked and stolen from by gov't. They can keep more money away from gov't then they spend more money on projects and buy more products and services that create good jobs and prosperity for all. Plus when I'm earning more I spend more which benefits others. The term "trickle down" is wrong, and was originally coined to deride supply-side. It's more like a flood that rains down. I also don't envy rich folks. They're customers, not the enemy. Gov't is the enemy!

Libs just don't get it, and never will IMO. Just like the ACA is wrecking HC, reducing choice and driving up costs, whenever gov't gets involved medocrity and malaise ensue.

 

[Brain357]

Grow up child.
That has to be the most ridiculous thing you have posted so far.

My son went to a state college. Took a job with a company he nor I knew anything about....other than the fact that they were around for 30 years and employed 250 people.

And by the time he was 27 he was earning 100K as a marketing manager.

No connections, no expensive education.

I hired a kid a while back....3 years after I started my own. I did not know him nor did I know his family. He was a graduate of Nassau Community College (2 year) and while working for me he continued his education at Post (LIU) and got his 4 year degree. He worked hard, learned the business, showed he cared.....

Several years later he branched out and started his own....and now employs over 25 people.

No connections, no expensive education.

So you continue thinking what you are thinking and be a complainer all your life.....for as long as you think it is impossible to achieve, you will never strive for it.'

People like you are what the problem is.

You are jealous of the haves yet have no idea how they became the haves.

Oh this is too much. The guy living in fairy tale land is calling me a child because I live in the real world. haha I do love the 2 examples that couldn't possibly be verified as your proof though. Kind of a small sample size don't you think? Oh and I'm not sure you really give enough info for them to be relevant either. Why don't you use some real stats? The right seems to be short on those.

If you look at real statistics we are pretty lacking in upward mobility.

So your pretty sure I'm a have not? You base that on knowing almost nothing about me? Geez who is the child now. I have more than enough. But that hasn't blinded me to our countries problems.

So you are telling me that you know no one that went to a state school and is now earning an upper class living?

Jeez...I can go on and on with people I know who made it on their own.

My mentor. He never graduated college but he built a small empire....his father was a blue collar worker. No connections.

The guy living next door to me. Local college education and is now a CFO for a medium sized company on Long Island.

My closest friend. Owns a restaurant. 2 year degree at Westchester community college. Got a job as a bus boy while in college. Now he owns the restaurant. I highly doubt his daddy was needed to get him a job as a bus boy....but I don't know for sure.

LMOA...I forgot....MY WIFE! SUNY Binghamton grad 30 years ago. Spent 20 years bringing up our family. Started her own business a few years back when I retired. Now employs 8 people.

Sorry bro.....you can doubt what I say but if you tell me you know NO ONE who made it on a basic education and without daddy's help, I highly suspect one of two things...either you are lying to yourself...or you are what I suspect...a child who has not old enough to have friends who have achieved success yet.

I'm not saying it's impossible to get ahead or that nobody has. I'm saying fewer people are and stats support that. Meanwhile stats show american workers are more productive. Yet this hard work gets them nothing, why is that?

So what state school did your son go to? Some of them can still be rather expensive for the poor. Is he actually showing upward mobility or are his parents pretty well off and he's just doing as stats show?

 

[Jarhead]

Oh this is too much. The guy living in fairy tale land is calling me a child because I live in the real world. haha I do love the 2 examples that couldn't possibly be verified as your proof though. Kind of a small sample size don't you think? Oh and I'm not sure you really give enough info for them to be relevant either. Why don't you use some real stats? The right seems to be short on those.

If you look at real statistics we are pretty lacking in upward mobility.

So your pretty sure I'm a have not? You base that on knowing almost nothing about me? Geez who is the child now. I have more than enough. But that hasn't blinded me to our countries problems.

So you are telling me that you know no one that went to a state school and is now earning an upper class living?

Jeez...I can go on and on with people I know who made it on their own.

My mentor. He never graduated college but he built a small empire....his father was a blue collar worker. No connections.

The guy living next door to me. Local college education and is now a CFO for a medium sized company on Long Island.

My closest friend. Owns a restaurant. 2 year degree at Westchester community college. Got a job as a bus boy while in college. Now he owns the restaurant. I highly doubt his daddy was needed to get him a job as a bus boy....but I don't know for sure.

LMOA...I forgot....MY WIFE! SUNY Binghamton grad 30 years ago. Spent 20 years bringing up our family. Started her own business a few years back when I retired. Now employs 8 people.

Sorry bro.....you can doubt what I say but if you tell me you know NO ONE who made it on a basic education and without daddy's help, I highly suspect one of two things...either you are lying to yourself...or you are what I suspect...a child who has not old enough to have friends who have achieved success yet.

I'm not saying it's impossible to get ahead or that nobody has. I'm saying fewer people are and stats support that. Meanwhile stats show american workers are more productive. Yet this hard work gets them nothing, why is that?

So what state school did your son go to? Some of them can still be rather expensive for the poor. Is he actually showing upward mobility or are his parents pretty well off and he's just doing as stats show?

If one can do it without mega cash or connections, then why cant others?

Yes, stats show American workers are more productive....but that is because technology allows them to be such. Something as basic as "spell check" makes an executive assistant a better executive assistant than he/ she was before spell check was invented.

A receptionist is much more efficient having to answer only 20 calls a day as opposed to the amount of calls she had to answer before individual voice mails per line in an office.

A CNC lathe operator can produce 10 times the product than he was able to when he had to turn the lathe manually.

The general public is not working harder by any means. They work. Period.

As for my son, he went to SUNY Buffalo. Same price as the others. All he got from my wife and I was a lesson about work ethic and how it got us to where we are today.

We explained to him that he needed to stand out in the marketplace and stand out in the office. Not as a suck up......but as one that WANTS to get ahead.

His degree was not marketing....but he found an interest in it when he was a sales assistant and took marketing courses after work.....2 nights a week his first year and 3 nights a week his second.

In other words....HE MADE IT HAPPEN.

The children of the better off tend to do better (as stats show) for only one reason.....because they teach their children how to achieve individual success.....you know...lead by example.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

This thread just proves that liberals are a leech on society.

 

[KNB]

95% of economic gains during the recovery went to 1% of the population.

95% of the money made in the past 5 years was divided between 1% of the population.

When 95% of the money goes to 1% of the population, and most of those gains came after the 1% received multi-billion dollar bailouts at the expense of American workers, (there's also a decade-long useless, endless war without reason costing us billions every week) then even the dumbest red state voters should be able to admit that this system is flawed.

95% of economic gains went to the richest 1%. So why haven't the 1% job creators created any jobs? Do the job creators need more money than just a meager 95% before they create any jobs?

 

[Contumacious]

95% of economic gains during the recovery went to 1% of the population.

95% of the money made in the past 5 years was divided between 1% of the population.

When 95% of the money goes to 1% of the population, and most of those gains came after the 1% received multi-billion dollar bailouts at the expense of American workers, (there's also a decade-long useless, endless war without reason costing us billions every week) then even the dumbest red state voters should be able to admit that this system is flawed.

95% of economic gains went to the richest 1%. So why haven't the 1% job creators created any jobs? Do the job creators need more money than just a meager 95% before they create any jobs?

Again, someone has to pay for the gargantuan welfare/warfare state.

The super rich can shield their wealth. The middle class can not.

.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

If you idiots spent half as much time trying to better your own lives as you do worrying about everyone elses you would be amazed at what you could achieve.

 

[Bombur]

Then answer me this....

The guy down the block from you (theoretically)...

He had a modest education and no connections through family.

He is subjected to the economy and all its forces, as everyone else is.

How come he was able to get to the point of making 300K a year but others cant?

I can only point out that this is a macroeconomic issue so many times before it becomes clear that you simply will never understand what is being talked about.

The issue is about markets involving millions of people across the globe and the resultant wages of those markets. It is about how those markets can be manipulated and are manipulated. It is how the status of those markets impact economic growth over time. It is about how the status of those markets impact poverty, unemployment, prison populations, wealth of the 1%, wealth of the .0000001%, wealth of the bottom 1%, participation in government programs, etc.

 

[Bombur]

Please explain to me how someone elses wealth is holding my 27 year old son back?

The question is what kind of labor market your son is participating in. Or really more accurately what kind of labor market all the sons and daughters in the US are participating in.

 

[Jarhead]

Then answer me this....

The guy down the block from you (theoretically)...

He had a modest education and no connections through family.

He is subjected to the economy and all its forces, as everyone else is.

How come he was able to get to the point of making 300K a year but others cant?

I can only point out that this is a macroeconomic issue so many times before it becomes clear that you simply will never understand what is being talked about.

The issue is about markets involving millions of people across the globe and the resultant wages of those markets. It is about how those markets can be manipulated and are manipulated. It is how the status of those markets impact economic growth over time. It is about how the status of those markets impact poverty, unemployment, prison populations, wealth of the 1%, wealth of the .0000001%, wealth of the bottom 1%, participation in government programs, etc.

you continually make a statement and then state the apparent consequences, but have yet to connect the two.

But I will say it again.....whether an employer makes 500K or 500 Million....if the employee applies himself as my son did and by the age of 27 is a Marketing manager with an income of over 100k including bonuses...continually receiving recruiting calls for potentially better opportunities, please explain why the wealth of his employer...or ANYONE for that matter is a hindrance to his financial and career success.

The spending power of the top 1% has absolutely no affect on the pricing of goods and services.

Look around you. People are making it on their own...without the concern of the wealth of others.

So why cant everyone?

 

[Bombur]

you continually make a statement and then state the apparent consequences, but have yet to connect the two.

But I will say it again.....whether an employer makes 500K or 500 Million....if the employee applies himself as my son did and by the age of 27 is a Marketing manager with an income of over 100k including bonuses...continually receiving recruiting calls for potentially better opportunities, please explain why the wealth of his employer...or ANYONE for that matter is a hindrance to his financial and career success.

The spending power of the top 1% has absolutely no affect on the pricing of goods and services.

Look around you. People are making it on their own...without the concern of the wealth of others.

So why cant everyone?

I am not arguing that the causation works the way you describe. I am not arguing that hard working and talented people can't make a lot of money in the US.

One person's experience is really not relevant at all.

I am arguing that income inequality is growing as a result of a weak labor market(and other factors). I am arguing that both of these things cause problems long term.

This has zero to do with me personally or you personally. It has to do with the nation.

 

[KNB]

The spending power of the top 1% has absolutely no affect on the pricing of goods and services.

No, it has to do with the amount of money that is supposed to "trickle down" to the workers who create the goods and provide the services which make the company successful.

Trillions of dollars in cash are sitting in the bank accounts of the 1%. Just cash and "liquid assets". Wealth that can easily trickle down from their bank accounts to the general public, if they spent it. But billionaires don't become billionaires by sharing their wealth with everyone else, because if billionaires shared their wealth then they wouldn't be billionaires anymore.

Trickle-down economics does not work if the "job creators" aren't creating any jobs or letting any wealth trickle down. 95% of the economic gains since 2009 went to the richest 1%. This means that 99% of the population made 5% of the money. When does the rest of that 95% begin to trickle down?

We are talking about trillions of dollars being hoarded by a few hundred-thousand people. These are numbers that the average Republican voter simply does not have the mental capacity to comprehend, so they throw up their defense of "go get a job, loser". Again, there aren't that many jobs because trillions of dollars are sitting in the bank accounts of the super rich who outsourced all of the jobs, and they're not creating new jobs, not letting any of their billions of dollars trickle down, not doing anything for anyone except themselves and their shareholders.

 

[Brain357]

So you are telling me that you know no one that went to a state school and is now earning an upper class living?

Jeez...I can go on and on with people I know who made it on their own.

My mentor. He never graduated college but he built a small empire....his father was a blue collar worker. No connections.

The guy living next door to me. Local college education and is now a CFO for a medium sized company on Long Island.

My closest friend. Owns a restaurant. 2 year degree at Westchester community college. Got a job as a bus boy while in college. Now he owns the restaurant. I highly doubt his daddy was needed to get him a job as a bus boy....but I don't know for sure.

LMOA...I forgot....MY WIFE! SUNY Binghamton grad 30 years ago. Spent 20 years bringing up our family. Started her own business a few years back when I retired. Now employs 8 people.

Sorry bro.....you can doubt what I say but if you tell me you know NO ONE who made it on a basic education and without daddy's help, I highly suspect one of two things...either you are lying to yourself...or you are what I suspect...a child who has not old enough to have friends who have achieved success yet.

I'm not saying it's impossible to get ahead or that nobody has. I'm saying fewer people are and stats support that. Meanwhile stats show american workers are more productive. Yet this hard work gets them nothing, why is that?

So what state school did your son go to? Some of them can still be rather expensive for the poor. Is he actually showing upward mobility or are his parents pretty well off and he's just doing as stats show?

If one can do it without mega cash or connections, then why cant others?

Yes, stats show American workers are more productive....but that is because technology allows them to be such. Something as basic as "spell check" makes an executive assistant a better executive assistant than he/ she was before spell check was invented.

A receptionist is much more efficient having to answer only 20 calls a day as opposed to the amount of calls she had to answer before individual voice mails per line in an office.

A CNC lathe operator can produce 10 times the product than he was able to when he had to turn the lathe manually.

The general public is not working harder by any means. They work. Period.

As for my son, he went to SUNY Buffalo. Same price as the others. All he got from my wife and I was a lesson about work ethic and how it got us to where we are today.

We explained to him that he needed to stand out in the marketplace and stand out in the office. Not as a suck up......but as one that WANTS to get ahead.

His degree was not marketing....but he found an interest in it when he was a sales assistant and took marketing courses after work.....2 nights a week his first year and 3 nights a week his second.

In other words....HE MADE IT HAPPEN.

The children of the better off tend to do better (as stats show) for only one reason.....because they teach their children how to achieve individual success.....you know...lead by example.

So the son of rich parents is doing well. That sure proves the American dream is still alive. How did he pay for school?

Of course people aren't actually working harder. And those CEOs who made 42x the average worker in 1980 and now make 354x the average worker, how are they more productive? Those CEOs in 1980 must have been real lazy eh?

 

[Bombur]

So the son of rich parents is doing well. That sure proves the American dream is still alive. How did he pay for school?

Of course people aren't actually working harder. And those CEOs who made 42x the average worker in 1980 and now make 354x the average worker, how are they more productive? Those CEOs in 1980 must have been real lazy eh?

This is a good post. The comparison is not rich versus poor. It is about how the rich compare to the middle class now compared to then. It is about what this means for an economy both in terms of the impact this has on the economy and why this is happening in an economy.