Florida Republicans to gun hating doctors mind your own business

[Skull Pilot]

Then you tell us how many times people use a gun in self defense without killing anyone

Probably almost never. The problem is that most of these cases, the person they pulled a gun on probably wasnt' an actual threat.

The FBI has a figure of 49,000 DGU's vs. 200 Justifiable homicides. I think even THAT one is too high. It means for every time you put one in the morgue, you'd have to wave your "compensation" around at someone 245 times without killing them.

I just don't find that credible. Not with the way you guys get on here talking about all the people you just can't wait to shoot.

But let's use the FBI numbers because it comes from the VCSR, which is a rolling survey of thousands of people (As opposedto Kleck's nonsense, where he interviewed a few hundred people one time and extrapolated for the whole country.

So 49,000 times a usually non-fatal crime was prevented vs. 33,000 deaths and 70,000 injuries and 400,000 a documented crime was committed with a gun because it was just too darned easy for the bad guys to get them.

Not worth it. Just give him your fucking TV. It's insured.

Sorry I just posted the answer

from 2007-2011 it was over 235000 times

 

[JoeB131]

That's more than were murder victims
Suicide is not a crime therefore it doesn't count since a person cannot act in self defense against himself

If that person would still be alive if there wasn't a gun in the house, then, yeah, it's still a big deal.

Again, if you want to count the 49K DGU's, you should also count the suicides, the 70,000 gun injuries and the 400,000 gun crimes.

And then do a cost benefit analysis- are we better off with guns or without them.

 

[JoeB131]

Sorry I just posted the answer

from 2007-2011 it was over 235000 times

So not enough to justify the carnage- We got that.

 

[Skull Pilot]

That's more than were murder victims
Suicide is not a crime therefore it doesn't count since a person cannot act in self defense against himself

If that person would still be alive if there wasn't a gun in the house, then, yeah, it's still a big deal.

Again, if you want to count the 49K DGU's, you should also count the suicides, the 70,000 gun injuries and the 400,000 gun crimes.

And then do a cost benefit analysis- are we better off with guns or without them.

We are talking DEFENSIVE gun use

That by definition rules out suicides

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sorry I just posted the answer

from 2007-2011 it was over 235000 times

So not enough to justify the carnage- We got that.

It's more than the total number of people killed by guns.

It's way more if you leave out suicides as you should

 

[JoeB131]

It's more than the total number of people killed by guns.

It's way more if you leave out suicides as you should

Well, no, it's really not.

Lets be honest, not all DGU's - if they happen at all - are a matter of life and death. Usually it's someone chasing someone off their property or scaring off a bigger person who might have been getting ready to lay an ass-whooping on them, but you get to keep on living. If you didn't HAVE to shoot him, it probably wasn't that serious. So let's put a monetary value to all the property losses and injuries and handful of deaths guns prevent.

Then let's put a monetary value to all the lives taken by guns, injuries caused with guns and crimes committed with guns.

Guess which number is going to be bigger.

 

[JoeB131]

We are talking DEFENSIVE gun use

That by definition rules out suicides

No I am talking about all gun uses.

DGU's 49,000

vs.
Homicides - 11,000
Suicides - 19,500
Accidents - 800
Injuries - 70,000
Crimes - 400,000

It seems to me by ANY objective measure, the bad caused by guns far outweighs the good.

Oh, this is the part where you start whining about what some slave rapist wanted 200 years ago. Maybe if we gave Sally Hemmings a gun, we'd have saved so much trouble.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It's more than the total number of people killed by guns.

It's way more if you leave out suicides as you should

Well, no, it's really not.

Lets be honest, not all DGU's - if they happen at all - are a matter of life and death. Usually it's someone chasing someone off their property or scaring off a bigger person who might have been getting ready to lay an ass-whooping on them, but you get to keep on living. If you didn't HAVE to shoot him, it probably wasn't that serious. So let's put a monetary value to all the property losses and injuries and handful of deaths guns prevent.

Then let's put a monetary value to all the lives taken by guns, injuries caused with guns and crimes committed with guns.

Guess which number is going to be bigger.

You can't put a monetary value on a person.

And I gave you incidences of violent crime and gun use for self defense there is another number for property crimes where guns were used it was 109000 times

Maybe if you bothered to read the report you would have know that

 

[Skull Pilot]

We are talking DEFENSIVE gun use

That by definition rules out suicides

No I am talking about all gun uses.

DGU's 49,000

vs.
Homicides - 11,000
Suicides - 19,500
Accidents - 800
Injuries - 70,000
Crimes - 400,000

It seems to me by ANY objective measure, the bad caused by guns far outweighs the good.

Oh, this is the part where you start whining about what some slave rapist wanted 200 years ago. Maybe if we gave Sally Hemmings a gun, we'd have saved so much trouble.

Self inflicted injuries cannot be counted when we are discussing defensive gun use once again you can't defend yourself from a self inflicted injury

Accidents aren't crimes, suicides aren't crimes

We are talking about the number of self defense uses of firearms

Just imagine how much higher the death toll would have been if those 235000 people were denied the right to defend themselves

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable15.pdf

According to the NCVS, looking at the total number of self-protective behaviors undertaken by victims of both attempted and completed violent crime for the five year period 2007 through 2011, in only 0.8 percent of these instances had the intended victim in resistance to a criminal “threatened or attacked with a firearm.”11 As detailed in the chart on the next page, for the five-year period 2007 through 2011, the NCVS estimates that there were 29,618,300 victims of attempted or completed violent crime. During this same five-year period, only 235,700 of the self-protective behaviors involved a firearm. Of this number, it is not known what type of firearm was used or whether it was fired or not. The number may also include off-duty law enforcement officers who use their firearms in self-defense.

So in 5 years 235,700 people used a gun to protect themselves from a violent crime

That's more than were murder victims
Suicide is not a crime therefore it doesn't count since a person cannot act in self defense against himself

And those are the ones that are known about. There is no law requiring you to inform police after you protected yourself with a firearm unless you shoot the thing.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The fact remains that guns are frequently used to prevent violent crime without being discharged, thus saving lives. Why do you want people to die?

Because you claim is without foundation. Completely ignore the fact that youwould have to believe that you gun nuts with your tiny dicks would have to pull out your guns 7500 times for the every one time you had to shoot the scary darkie. (Because that would be the imaginary 1,500,000 DGU's vs. 200 verified justifiable homicides with guns)

you would also have to conclude that there were be a HUGE murder rate in countries where citizens aren't allowed to own guns, as every criminal has murder on his mind. In fact, the oppossite is true. There are very few murders in Italy, Germany, the UK or France, where gun ownership iseither limited or outright banned.

That's because there's not that many darkies over there.

 

[JoeB131]

You can't put a monetary value on a person.

And I gave you incidences of violent crime and gun use for self defense there is another number for property crimes where guns were used it was 109000 times

Maybe if you bothered to read the report you would have know that

YOu're right, I don't bother reading links from gun nuts, most of them are too tiresome.

And here's the thing. You are right. YOu can't put a monetary value on a person. The fact that we have 33,000 deaths a year due to your sick fetish is unacceptable.

 

[JoeB131]

And those are the ones that are known about. There is no law requiring you to inform police after you protected yourself with a firearm unless you shoot the thing.

quite right. Because usually what you call "defending yourself" most non-gun nuts would call "Assault' and "Menacing"...

 

[Skull Pilot]

You can't put a monetary value on a person.

And I gave you incidences of violent crime and gun use for self defense there is another number for property crimes where guns were used it was 109000 times

Maybe if you bothered to read the report you would have know that

YOu're right, I don't bother reading links from gun nuts, most of them are too tiresome.

And here's the thing. You are right. YOu can't put a monetary value on a person. The fact that we have 33,000 deaths a year due to your sick fetish is unacceptable.

It was just the violence policy center what do they know

But you would just rather make up numbers anyway we all know that

And more people use guns to protect themselves from violent crimes than die every year
So as long as that's true guns are responsible for reducing the number of deaths

And FYI I'm hardly a gun nut. I shoot skeet. I have since I was a kid. I enjoy it.
I don't have an arsenal of weapons in fact most people I know have no idea I even own a weapon.

I happen to believe that a person has the right to defend himself by the most efficient means available

You don't.

I don't believe I have any right whatsoever to tell people how to live their lives

You do

Those are our differences

Well those and you're a closeted homosexual with a penis obsession and I'm not

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You can't put a monetary value on a person.

And I gave you incidences of violent crime and gun use for self defense there is another number for property crimes where guns were used it was 109000 times

Maybe if you bothered to read the report you would have know that

YOu're right, I don't bother reading links from gun nuts, most of them are too tiresome.

And here's the thing. You are right. YOu can't put a monetary value on a person.

You can't? Ever hear of an insurance company???? They do it all the time.

 

[JoeB131]

I happen to believe that a person has the right to defend himself by the most efficient means available

You don't.

I don't believe I have any right whatsoever to tell people how to live their lives

You do

Those are our differences

Guy, other than your obsession with my sexuality (sorry, dude, I don't swing your way, maybe you need to try a bathhouse.

The thing is, my position is based on reason. 200 Justifiable homicides do not excuse 33,000 gun deaths and 70,000 gun injuries.

Yours is based on emotionalism. DGU's don't happen, but you whine about your "rights" that would be violated if we actually had someone question if you have a real need for a gun.

 

[JoeB131]

You can't? Ever hear of an insurance company???? They do it all the time.

Okay. YOu sold me. Let's charge the gun industry for the value of every person who dies of a gun shot.

Hmmm... let's say $50,000 for every one of the 33,000 gun deaths. We can break it out by market share.

Thanks, man, you have all sorts of good ideas.

 

[PredFan]

You can't put a monetary value on a person.

And I gave you incidences of violent crime and gun use for self defense there is another number for property crimes where guns were used it was 109000 times

Maybe if you bothered to read the report you would have know that

YOu're right, I don't bother reading links from gun nuts, most of them are too tiresome.

And here's the thing. You are right. YOu can't put a monetary value on a person. The fact that we have 33,000 deaths a year due to your sick fetish is unacceptable.

And as long as idiots like you remain profoundly stupid, we will continue to have deaths. You blame our hobby, you blame in inanimate object. That is ignorant in the extreme. You and your left wing nut politicians ignore the real problem and focus on the gun. All that will accomplish is taking away the rights of people. But of course you only care about that and lives mean nothing at all to you asshats.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You can't? Ever hear of an insurance company???? They do it all the time.

Okay. YOu sold me. Let's charge the gun industry for the value of every person who dies of a gun shot.

Hmmm... let's say $50,000 for every one of the 33,000 gun deaths. We can break it out by market share.

Thanks, man, you have all sorts of good ideas.

Yes I do, one of them being the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

Another is that it's impossible to disarm the criminal element no matter what you do. You can make all the gun laws you want, and after they are all in your favor, the criminals will still have guns.

 

[JoeB131]

And as long as idiots like you remain profoundly stupid, we will continue to have deaths. You blame our hobby, you blame in inanimate object. That is ignorant in the extreme. You and your left wing nut politicians ignore the real problem and focus on the gun. All that will accomplish is taking away the rights of people. But of course you only care about that and lives mean nothing at all to you asshats.

You shouldn't have a right to a gun. Gun ownership should be a privilege that is earned by proving you are responsible.

The guns are the problem. They allow altercations to escalate quickly into tragedies.