Founding Fathers against Obama

[NYcarbineer]

Why people have so much respect for the founding fathers I cant fathom. While they were decent men, I surely dont have any more respect for them than anyone else. They werent perfect nor role models in any way shape or form.

If they were around today they'd be laughing their asses off at the people here who worship them like gods.

 

[Billo_Really]

What, in your opinion, separates "manageable debt" from "perpetual debt"?

Our obscene defense budget; two bullshit wars costing us over $3 trillion; paying for 800 god-damn US bases around the world; perpetual war.

How does our military defend this country, when they're not physically in the country they're defending? I'm sure we pay for that too!

You want to fix the debt? Cut the defense budget in half; end the wars; close all these bases and stop bombing country's with brown people.

 

[JakeStarkey]

We need to bring 80% of our troops home.

 

[Urkie]

Read the history. They were men of bravery, virtue, integrity, wisdom, foresight, uprightness, perseverance, knowledge, etc. I don't know what you think a role model is or how a man becomes great; but I know that you cannot point me to a better and more influential group of souls.

The founders were brave men but they also knew that things change over time. If they didn't believe that, then they would have finalized the constitution instead of allowing future governments to add amendments to it. Things change over time and that's something they understood but it doesn't seem like Republicans understands that today.

And if the founders were "perfect" then they wouldn't have left the issue of slavery to somebody else in the future. They would have dealt with it in the beginning.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Read the history. They were men of bravery, virtue, integrity, wisdom, foresight, uprightness, perseverance, knowledge, etc. I don't know what you think a role model is or how a man becomes great; but I know that you cannot point me to a better and more influential group of souls.

The founders were brave men but they also knew that things change over time. If they didn't believe that, then they would have finalized the constitution instead of allowing future governments to add amendments to it. Things change over time and that's something they understood but it doesn't seem like Republicans understands that today.

And if the founders were "perfect" then they wouldn't have left the issue of slavery to somebody else in the future. They would have dealt with it in the beginning.

Yes; but they understood the human nature, the propensity for corruption, checks and balances, solidarity, the importance of states rights, liberties, justice, etc. They were well learned and they understood that the Constitution was the backbone of America. They wisely crafted bylines that could not easily be changed but without the concerted will of the people. You make it sound like they were creating a document for their time only. They had great foresight and many of them prophesied that they had made a document for the ages. How presumptuous that there are those of us that think we are more keen than the founding fathers. I have thoroughly studied them and I can unequivocally tell you that that is not so. They operated on the basis of timeless truths and the highest values.

 

[JoeB131]

Again, you don't understand Romney, the Republican Party, or political dynamics.

Deflector sheilds to maximum, Cap'n.

How about answering my question, now?

What possible incentive would the Democrats from deep blue districts possibly have to work with Romney? Quite the contrary, their side would consider it treason.

And after what happened to Lugar last night, it's not like any Republicans are going to go in for that moderation thingee...

And keep in mind, Romney has to run for re-election in 2016. He's not going to do anything to upset his base, which already doesn't trust him.

Ummm . . . not at all. You clearly do understand the modern American political landscape.

It's so fun to watch Jake deflect and deny reality....

Guy, Romney has already shown he lacks the backbone to stand up to the Crazy Right.

And you were the one who said that you "sensible" Republicans were about to throw the Tea Party out the door.

Ummmm, errrr, Senator Lugar would like tohave a word with you!

 

[JoeB131]

We need to bring 80% of our troops home.

Again, if you really think this is the case, why are you supporting Romney?

Are you like playing his speeches backwards and hearing these moderate secret messages.

"Paul Is Dead".

 

[JakeStarkey]

Actually . . . Joe is lost as usual, and has added nothing of value.

If Romney is serious about our debt, then he will look hard at and do something about the force structure of the military.

You are so funny in that you lambasted Romney for not being conservative enough in the primaries but now somehow he is in the pocket of the conservatives.

 

[JoeB131]

Actually . . . Joe is lost as usual, and has added nothing of value.

If Romney is serious about our debt, then he will look hard at and do something about the force structure of the military.

You are so funny in that you lambasted Romney for not being conservative enough in the primaries but now somehow he is in the pocket of the conservatives.

I lambast him for being in the pocket of religious crazies... not for not being "conservative".

Never had a good thing to say about religious crazies and never will...

So why are you trying to indicate that I did?

Oh, that's right, because you can't answer the question.

Romney has said up and down that he wants to make the military larger. Now, yeah, maybe budget realities will make him change his mind, but the same would be true if Obama got a second term.

And he's not going to offend Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and all the other big military contractors selling the Pentagon pricy toys.

The thing about it is, You've convinced yourself that Romney is this moderate who is going to finally put those mean old conservatives in their place. But he can't stand up to them now, he won't stand up to them if the country has a brain fart and elects him.

But that's the problem with this guy. He takes every side of every issue and then hopes that no one will notice.

Well, guess what, I noticed.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Our founders should have been multi-cultural, atheist, communists to be considered truly enlightened..................lol

 

[JakeStarkey]

We can see that LogikandReason is neither enlightened, logical, or reasonable.

 

[rightwinger]

No question that the founding fathers were against Obama.

They would have kept him as a slave and sold off his children

 

[bravoactual]

Unless or until such a time as you can prove by first hand accounts, you are typical, lying low life ConJob/NeoNut/RePug/teaHadists who needs to move out of his Mother's Basement and get a job.

 

[NoNukes]

Yes__ That was clearly the first time that I ever studied the Founding Fathers genius. Do I have to spell it out for you?

These two hours obviously made you an expert.

Well I'm not going to spell it out for you troll.

Resorting to name calling is a sure sign of weakness.

 

[Montrovant]

The idea that anyone knows how the founders would react to situations in the modern world has always seemed ridiculous and funny to me. Things are just too different today to know what their thoughts and feelings would be. We have a hard enough time being certain of their opinions from their own times!

There is also the fact that this country was not founded by men who all held exactly the same ideals. So, determining the opinions of a disparate group of men if they were to exist in a time so extremely different from their own is foolishness of the first order IMO.

 

[Listening]

Why people have so much respect for the founding fathers I cant fathom. While they were decent men, I surely dont have any more respect for them than anyone else. They werent perfect nor role models in any way shape or form.

If they were around today they'd be laughing their asses off at the people here who worship them like gods.

Actually, they would be appalled at the way people like you like to twist things and who continue to spout off talking points well after you've been shown the error in you so-called "thinking".

I don't hear anyone worshipping them. What I see is an admiration and respect for the system of government they established and the flexibility they built into the system vai the legistlative and amendment process.

What I think we also find is that some people don't appreciate the "ends justify the means" approach many on both sides take which marginalizes the excellent system of government we were given.

 

[rightwinger]

I just finished a couple hours of studying the Founding Fathers. They gave ominous warnings against people like Obama and I'm convinced that they would resolutely defy Obama were they alive today.

"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt." -- Thomas Jefferson

The founding fathers obligated us with massive debt.....how do you think they paid for the revolution?

 

[JakeStarkey]

I just finished a couple hours of studying the Founding Fathers. They gave ominous warnings against people like Obama and I'm convinced that they would resolutely defy Obama were they alive today.

"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt." -- Thomas Jefferson

The founding fathers obligated us with massive debt.....how do you think they paid for the revolution?

The Treaty of Paris (1783) was followed a massively indebted government, which was very weak, threatened by the British to the north, the Spanish to the south, the indebted internally who believed government was favoring property and wealth, and and the Native Americans who wanted to keep their land.

 

[kiwiman127]

“I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”-Thomas Jefferson

So, taking this quote by Jefferson, we know what that particular Founding Father would think of those clamoring to appease Corporate America.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them."

Patrick Henry

Obama is constantly operating in concealment. How much time has he spent in private meetings with union bosses? Why is he promising to take our missiles out of Poland and then when asked for an explanation; all we get is "it's complicated." The Patriot Act is the biggest joke of all. We can get spied on and then never even told that it occurred.