Francis Keys bridge hit by ship. Bridge collapses, mass casualty event.

[para bellum]

The Lindsay and other ocean-going tugs aren't relevant to the incident/accident. Go play.

They are all tractor tugs and they follow the same pattern. The Bridget McAllister is smaller, but it is capable of the exact same maneuver as the Lindsey Foss in the Seattle Times story. I have watched them doing it in Elliot Bay for years.

The Eric McAllister is the same design but a little larger.

Tugboat Information

tugboatinformation.com

If those tugs had stayed with the Dali, there is a very good chance the accident would have been prevented.

 

[skye]

No power = no ability to maneuver.

The term “vessel not under command” means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to maneuver and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel

I understand what you say , but I wonder why Captain Yoss Leclerc, MBA, B.SC, President International Harbour Masters Association said this....I imagine he must know a thing or two!

That's all

 

[tahuyaman]

I understand what you say , but I wonder why Captain Yoss Leclerc, MBA, B.SC, President International Harbour Masters Association said this....I imagine he must know a thing or two!

That's all





View attachment 925162

I don’t know why people say things which are demonstrably untrue.

 

[skye]

I don’t know why people say things which are demonstrably untrue.

The thing is that he know what he talks about! Otherwise he would not have the position that he has!

 

[eagle1462010]

In your desperation to make your point, you've found an exception with the Lindsay. Too bad tugs of that capability weren't there.

But again you go searching for something to rescue yourself, and again proving your ignorance of the situation that existed.

Harbour tugs don't mess with ships doing 8 knots. (the butterfly effect) Those tugs are ordered off by the ship's pilot.

Been a long time ago for me but an LHD got pushed around by 4 and is juat as big as that ship.

 

[eagle1462010]

None of that made anything worse, but there wasn't time for them to make it much better. Dropping the port anchor would cause the bow to turn to port, not starboard. The stern would slide to starboard when the anchor finally caught, but I doubt that the anchor had time to catch.

Im not sure i agree there because the ship ran over the chain

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Sorry! You must have dementia. You could not be more wrong.

Okay.

 

[DudleySmith]

Yes, they would have to reroute the highway, possibly where neighborhoods currently exist. It wouldn't be the first time.

It's called 'eminent domain' and it indeed happens all the time.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Nimitz-class carriers have 4 screws, but only two rudders. How does that work if the rudders are not in line with the propellors?

I said the effect is MINIMAL, I did not say it was non-existent.

BTW, the word is forward, not "foreward".

Oh Jesus…

Also, the word is unnecessary inn that context. The word "way" indicates forward motion.

I know it does, that’s why I used it. And I was referring to bow thrusters in general, not the Dali. I don’t even know if the Dali has one.

 

[DudleySmith]

Tell it to Foss.

"The Lindsey eases back to about 10 knots, from its top speed of 15 knots. Its captain, Duane Crowley, stands at the ready in its soaring and carpeted wheelhouse, around which wrap 14 windows. Crowley turns a wheel with a beefy index finger and throws a lever controlling the Lindsey's German-made cycloidal propellers, which extend vertically like five giant fingers from the bottom of the hull. The cycloidal props allow the tugboat, which has no rudder, to change direction in an instant.

The nimble Lindsey scuttles like a crab across the frothy gap to the tanker. Crowley kisses his boat's stern against the tanker's hull, then pushes into the Prince William Sound with 1,000 of the Lindsey's 8,000 horsepower.

Within seconds, the bow of the Prince William Sound slides perceptibly to the left. Both vessels maintain their speed, about 10 knots. Eventually, the Prince William Sound noses into Rosario Strait."

The Tug Of Tugs -- Foss Maritime Develops Boat That Exerts More Pull, Maneuverability | The Seattle Times

archive.seattletimes.com

lol your anecdote is about a tug steering a ship already moving at a decent speed and under power. not even remotely the same thing.

 

[tahuyaman]

The thing is that he know what he talks about! Otherwise he would not have the position that he has!

So is it his position that container ship can never be disabled and unable to move and maneuver on its own power? If he believes that, he’s an idiot.

 

[skye]

So is it his position that container ship can never be disabled and unable to move and maneuver on its own power? If he believes that, he’s an idiot.

I don't don't know the history of all he has said in his life!

I only know what he said here.....like I posted in #1.262

 

[para bellum]

lol your anecdote is about a tug steering a ship already moving at a decent speed and under power. not even remotely the same thing.

And why do you think that? The Dali was traveling at 8kts, on the correct heading, exactly where it was supposed to be in the outbound shipping lane.

All the tugs would have had to do is make sure it kept doing what it was already doing. For another half-mile till it cleared the bridge. No turns, no maneuvering. Just stay the course, that's all.

I posted the story to illustrate that the notion the tugs cannot operate against ship going more than 3 kts. is false. They do it every day.

 

[beagle9]

Two tugboats circled in red. How many do you think it would take to be able to control a ship the size of the Dali once the ship has a total blackout?

View attachment 925069

If tugs were already along side, then nudges by the tugs could keep the ship in it's lane (I think), otherwise if they had too. Speed should be reduced around critical infrastructure in order to maintain control and safety that would then meet the needs of the tugs nudging or pushing in a situation if they had too. Correct ?

 

[beagle9]

Tugs wouldn't even attempt to control a ship travelling at 8 knots. The tugs would still be there prepared for the ship to come to rest.

In a straight line with tugs on either side, and the ship at a safe speed encase engine failure happens, then it's not like the tugs would be attempting to stop or turn sharply the huge behemoth, but only to nudge it in an attempt to guide it as it slows down. Water is slick remember.. The tugs push behemoths around all the time in the ports, and with amazing success. Of course the adjustments in speed etc have to be made by the pilot's aboard the behemoths in order to accomodate the tugs that are doing a job for them.

 

[lennypartiv]

Are tugboats always at the sides of these bigger ships? Stronger protection around the bridge supports have to be part of the solution.

 

[beagle9]

Are tugboats always at the sides of these bigger ships? Stronger protection around the bridge supports have to be part of the solution.

Yes infrastructural upgrades should be made as lessons are learned. Kicking that proverbial can down the road is never a good thing.

 

[DudleySmith]

Yes infrastructural upgrades should be made as lessons are learned. Kicking that proverbial can down the road is never a good thing.

Building a new port instead of trying to shoehorn giant modern ships into 18th century ports is a better strategy. Building major highways across major shipping lanes is stupid, and blowing a couple billion rebuilding them is even dumber.

On edit also the trucking and rail routes re-routed.

 

[kyzr]

It's called 'eminent domain' and it indeed happens all the time.

True, but it may not happen quickly if owners take the "taking" to court.

 

[konradv]

Tragic…this is what xiden and the dems infrastructure build back better bill has given us…

Will give us. The bridge hasn’t been built back better yet. That’s been held up by the MAGA Party.