Gay Marriage is a Lie: Honest or Disagree?

[KevinWestern]

Do you want your 6 year old grandchildren to be taught that they can choose to be straight or gay and that either is fine?

So in other words, if a teacher told YOU when you were 15 that “you can either be gay or straight” there’s a chance you’d be sleeping with men right now? Big hairy, sweaty men, lol? Come on man, my affinity for women is engrained in me and there’s no way I would ever be attracted to a guy.

Being gay is not a choice or something you learn...

the next step after gay marriage is bigamy and polygamy, are you OK with your grandkids choosing one of those?

Polygamy? Am I worried about the 50 people in the US who actually would want to enter into one of these relationships from being able to do so legally? I personally don’t give a sh#t, lol. Non-issue.

Seriously, how many people in the US would actually consider polygamy an option? I bet it's less than a hundredth of a percent of couples...

its coming, bigamists and polygamists are being discriminated against because of who they love-----------watch.

Yes, it’s coming alright – all 50 of em.

 

[Redfish]

Do you want your 6 year old grandchildren to be taught that they can choose to be straight or gay and that either is fine?

So in other words, if a teacher told YOU when you were 15 that “you can either be gay or straight” there’s a chance you’d be sleeping with men right now? Big hairy, sweaty men, lol? Come on man, my affinity for women is engrained in me and there’s no way I would ever be attracted to a guy.

Being gay is not a choice or something you learn...

the next step after gay marriage is bigamy and polygamy, are you OK with your grandkids choosing one of those?

Polygamy? Am I worried about the 50 people in the US who actually would want to enter into one of these relationships from being able to do so legally? I personally don’t give a sh#t, lol. Non-issue.

Humans are naturally jealous, and naturally cling to just one partner for some very practical reasons (imagine having to deal with 7 wives when you get home!), so I think it’s fair to assume this sort of practice isn’t going to take off at any time in the near future to any significant level.

its coming, bigamists and polygamists are being discriminated against because of who they love-----------watch.

Yes, it’s coming alright – all 50 of em.

for some its genetic, for some its a choice. open the doors to multiple marriage and there would be thousands, not 50.

 

[kaz]

I absolutely don't give a rat fuck about "social validation".

On the other hand I absolutely demand from my government that it treat ALL citizens equally under the law when in like situations unless there is a compelling government interest to justify doing so. In this case like situations are law abiding, tax paying, US Citizen, infertile, consenting, adults in same-sex relationship being treated differently than law abiding, tax paying, US Citizen, infertile, consenting, adults in different-sex relationship for no other reason then a desire to institute/maintain discriminatory, capricious, and invidious laws.

Some of the items can't be reproduced at all, a semblance of some things might be reproducible at significantly higher cost and to a lesser degree through contract law - but not for the equivalant cost of the $50 Civil Marriage licensed.

Hope that helps.

Now, from a legal status, do you acknowledge that "There is nothing marriage provides gays they can't get without marriage." is incorrect?



>>>>

That wasn't the question that I asked. Answer mine first.

I gave you my answer. At a population of about 360,000,000 people in the United States and using a conservative 5% figure that means there are potentially 18,000,000 homosexuals in this country.

For some it's absolutely about equal treatment under the law, for others it can be about "social validation". For me, it's about the reason I cited.



You made a claim that is untrue, now you are diverting and and trying to make it about me instead of showing how all those things can be done for the same $50 cost of a Civil Marriage license (and some or all of the items I listed can be recreated at all)

You've had your answer, it's not my problem that you don't like it.


>>>>

You answered the question you wanted asked, not the one that was asked. That isn't answering the question, it's evading it. You do correctly sense a trap, but trying to evade it doesn't save you from it. Obviously those things are not what drive liberals to gay marriage, it's overwhelmingly the validation. Which is why even you realize it belongs in the legislature if you're honest. QED on that point. Though it literally fails the equal protection clause anyway since being gay does not change how you are treated under the law, it only changes how you want to be treated which isn't covered in the Constitution.

As to your question. Obviously I knew everything on your list when I said it. And you know I'm not an idiot. So I find your badgering tone of apparent cluelessness on why I made the claim a bit odd. I would not disrepect you like that, I know you're not an idiot. I would think you are capable of the same courtesy. So now that we have the real issue, validation out of the way, let's move to the trivialities for sport.

These are government practices which are created by the same liberals who are demanding gay marriage and I have no reason to let them out of their trap. No one should pay these taxes. The death tax is just evil

1. tax free transfer of real property to a spouse

2. exemption from the Estate Tax applicable to the sale of a primary home

These are unconstitutional violations of the 10th amendment.

6. relationship recognized under the Family Medical Leave Act so that a person can care for their spouse (or be cared for by them) in times of medical emergency.

7. Without Civil Marriage there is tax penalty for employer provided health insurance for a spouse of the same gender. (Same-sex Civilly Married couples are charged this extra tax on employer benefits where Different-sex Civilly Married couples are not.)

8. Civil Marriage establishes a family relationship under Social Security whereby the surviving spouse can receive benefits at the working spouses rate if higher then their own.

These while technically true are nailing brads with a sledge hammer. Furthermore, with the decline of government marriage in this country, we need to re-think our paternity laws and responsibilities anyway. Gays are no different in that regard.

3. Without Civil Marriage there is no spousal privilege in the case of a criminal prosecution.

4. Without Civil Marriage there is no burial for a spouse in a National Cemetery next to a spouse who was an honorably serving veteran of the United States.

5. Without Civil Marriage there is no assumed parenthood upon the birth of a child. A $50 marriage license does, for non-Civilly Married couples it would require a formal adoption costing hundreds if not thousands of dollars.

9. Civil Marriage establishes a family relationship where a spouse can then sponsor their spouse for immigration purposes.

10. Not being Civilly Married allows for other relatives to step in and challenge a will under probate court and in some states allows those family members to over ride the decrees of the will.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I think that no matter how many words you use, or how pretty you try to dress things up, anything other than full equality will clearly shine forth as 'separate but equal.'

And therefore unacceptable.

Very well put and surely we've had ore than enough of that pretense to equality?

 

[kaz]

I gave you my answer. At a population of about 360,000,000 people in the United States and using a conservative 5% figure that means there are potentially 18,000,000 homosexuals in this country.

For some it's absolutely about equal treatment under the law, for others it can be about "social validation". For me, it's about the reason I cited.



You made a claim that is untrue, now you are diverting and and trying to make it about me instead of showing how all those things can be done for the same $50 cost of a Civil Marriage license (and some or all of the items I listed can be recreated at all)

You've had your answer, it's not my problem that you don't like it.


>>>>

It's more like 1%-3% at the most.

It doesn't make any difference, they are Americans entitled to their civil rights.

Civil rights are protection from acts by government and other people. No civil right legitimately demands things from government or other people.

 

[Silhouette]

Being gay is not a choice or something you learn...

Well that would be a new one to my family friend who died from AIDS. He was molested by a man when he was a boy. We believe in the boy scouts actually where he rose to Eagle Scout before it all went south with him. He became obsessively homosexually promiscuous and still kept falling intellectually in love with women. But the imprinting he'd experienced wouldn't allow him to function normally with the women he loved. So he went mad, crazy. Without access to counselling, he embarked on a dark vendetta. Naturally, he got HIV. But in a score he sought to settle, he went out and infected as many of his "perps/fellow victims" as he could before he died the lingering, horrible death of AIDS in his early 30s. Near death he confessed to his brother who conveyed this to us. We estimate at the number and frequency of anonymous sex he had with males, he infected hundreds or perhaps thousands of unwitting partners who then went on to die the same way.

The Mayo Clinic and CDC and about 300 other peer-reviewed studies that support the last link below all disagree with you. Sexual orientations are learned. Not only are they learned, but the last link below found that youngsters on the verge of puberty take clues from their social environment in order to imprint themselves with the type of partners they see others taking sexually.

And that handily explains the sudden jump in HIV cases in just the last years "gay marriage" has been forced by judicial fiat on several states. There has been a 21% rise in just those years of boys ages 13-24 coming down with HIV. To remain politically-correct and politically-ignorant is fine if it makes you feel uncomfortable to face facts. But the facts are now killing kids and the pretending needs to stop in order to save their lives:

Mayo Clinic 2007

One of the most obvious examples of an environmental
factor that increases the chances of an individual becoming
an offender is if he or she were sexually abused as a child.
This relationship is known as the “victim-to-abuser cycle”
or “abused-abusers phenomena.”
5,23,24,46...

...
why the “abused abusers phenomena” occurs: identification with the aggressor,
in which the abused child is trying to gain a new
identity by becoming the abuser; an imprinted sexual
arousal pattern established by early abuse; early abuse
leading to hypersexual behavior; or a form of social learning took place http://www.drrichardhall.com/Articles/pedophiles.pdf

ATLANTA [2005 Clinical Psychiatry News] -- Substance abuse is pervasive among gay men and is so intricately intertwined with epidemics of depression, partner abuse, and childhood sexual abuse that adequately addressing one issue requires attention to the others as well, said Ronald Stall, Ph.D., chief of prevention research for the division of HIV/AIDS prevention at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta...

Check out the conclusions and the impressive bibliography on this one below:

http://www.pphp.concordia.ca/fac/pfaus/Pfaus-Kippin-Centeno(2001).pdf

Conditioning and Sexual Behavior: A Review
James G. Pfaus,1 Tod E. Kippin, and Soraya Centeno
Center for Studies in Behavioral Neurobiology, Department of Psychology, Concordia
University, 1455 deMaisonneuve Bldg. W., Montre´al, Que´bec, H3G 1M8 Canada

 

[bodecea]

Being gay is not a choice or something you learn...

Well that would be a new one to my family friend who died from AIDS. He was molested by a man when he was a boy. We believe in the boy scouts actually where he rose to Eagle Scout before it all went south with him. He became obsessively homosexually promiscuous and still kept falling intellectually in love with women. But the imprinting he'd experienced wouldn't allow him to function normally with the women he loved. So he went mad, crazy. Without access to counselling, he embarked on a dark vendetta. Naturally, he got HIV. But in a score he sought to settle, he went out and infected as many of his "perps/fellow victims" as he could before he died the lingering, horrible death of AIDS in his early 30s. Near death he confessed to his brother who conveyed this to us. We estimate at the number and frequency of anonymous sex he had with males, he infected hundreds or perhaps thousands of unwitting partners who then went on to die the same way.

The Mayo Clinic and CDC and about 300 other peer-reviewed studies that support the last link below all disagree with you. Sexual orientations are learned. Not only are they learned, but the last link below found that youngsters on the verge of puberty take clues from their social environment in order to imprint themselves with the type of partners they see others taking sexually.

And that handily explains the sudden jump in HIV cases in just the last years "gay marriage" has been forced by judicial fiat on several states. There has been a 21% rise in just those years of boys ages 13-24 coming down with HIV. To remain politically-correct and politically-ignorant is fine if it makes you feel uncomfortable to face facts. But the facts are now killing kids and the pretending needs to stop in order to save their lives:

Mayo Clinic 2007

One of the most obvious examples of an environmental
factor that increases the chances of an individual becoming
an offender is if he or she were sexually abused as a child.
This relationship is known as the “victim-to-abuser cycle”
or “abused-abusers phenomena.”
5,23,24,46...

...
why the “abused abusers phenomena” occurs: identification with the aggressor,
in which the abused child is trying to gain a new
identity by becoming the abuser; an imprinted sexual
arousal pattern established by early abuse; early abuse
leading to hypersexual behavior; or a form of social learning took place http://www.drrichardhall.com/Articles/pedophiles.pdf

ATLANTA [2005 Clinical Psychiatry News] -- Substance abuse is pervasive among gay men and is so intricately intertwined with epidemics of depression, partner abuse, and childhood sexual abuse that adequately addressing one issue requires attention to the others as well, said Ronald Stall, Ph.D., chief of prevention research for the division of HIV/AIDS prevention at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta...

Check out the conclusions and the impressive bibliography on this one below:

http://www.pphp.concordia.ca/fac/pfaus/Pfaus-Kippin-Centeno(2001).pdf

Conditioning and Sexual Behavior: A Review
James G. Pfaus,1 Tod E. Kippin, and Soraya Centeno
Center for Studies in Behavioral Neurobiology, Department of Psychology, Concordia
University, 1455 deMaisonneuve Bldg. W., Montre´al, Que´bec, H3G 1M8 Canada

Sounds like your family friend was a bit of a psycho in many ways. Or else, of course, it's all a made up story by you.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

a legal civil union gives them all of those rights

Nope. They have not been given access to all of the federal cash and prizes the rest of us are.

And they still are not given access to most of the cash and prizes on the state level, either.

You are living in a delusion if you believe they have equality under the law.

you miss the point. Their civil unions SHOULD have all the rights and protections that a man/woman married couple has. But a gay union is not a marriage.

the gay agenda is about the word 'marriage' not rights or equality.

Why should you care?

Its none of your business. Nor is it government's business or place to make more and more invasive laws to control the populace.

 

[KevinWestern]

for some its genetic, for some its a choice. open the doors to multiple marriage and there would be thousands, not 50.

Again, do you have male friends/family/coworkers etc in your life who would have been sleeping with dudes right now had a teacher told them that "either gay or straight is Okay" at one point? For me personally, no - I can't think of any. I'd take it as an insult if someone told me that my sexuality was so fickle to be swung by a single suggestion.

And as for polygamy. Even if thousands of people practiced it it would have literally ZERO effect on American life. The number of potential polygamists in the US is incredibly small, and if you can find me a source that says otherwise I'd love to see it.

Again, people are becoming more and more independent, are naturally jealous, and (again) don't want to deal with 7 wives when they get home (or fight over one guy). These factors make this style of marriage extremely unpopular, and the only places where this sorta thing thrives is countries with brutally oppressive social rules where women - for example - have no choice but to be one of seven wives.

Just being practical here...

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Being gay is not a choice or something you learn...

Well that would be a new one to my family friend who died from AIDS. He was molested by a man when he was a boy. We believe in the boy scouts actually where he rose to Eagle Scout before it all went south with him. He became obsessively homosexually promiscuous and still kept falling intellectually in love with women. But the imprinting he'd experienced wouldn't allow him to function normally with the women he loved. So he went mad, crazy. Without access to counselling, he embarked on a dark vendetta. Naturally, he got HIV. But in a score he sought to settle, he went out and infected as many of his "perps/fellow victims" as he could before he died the lingering, horrible death of AIDS in his early 30s. Near death he confessed to his brother who conveyed this to us. We estimate at the number and frequency of anonymous sex he had with males, he infected hundreds or perhaps thousands of unwitting partners who then went on to die the same way.

The Mayo Clinic and CDC and about 300 other peer-reviewed studies that support the last link below all disagree with you. Sexual orientations are learned. Not only are they learned, but the last link below found that youngsters on the verge of puberty take clues from their social environment in order to imprint themselves with the type of partners they see others taking sexually.

And that handily explains the sudden jump in HIV cases in just the last years "gay marriage" has been forced by judicial fiat on several states. There has been a 21% rise in just those years of boys ages 13-24 coming down with HIV. To remain politically-correct and politically-ignorant is fine if it makes you feel uncomfortable to face facts. But the facts are now killing kids and the pretending needs to stop in order to save their lives:





Check out the conclusions and the impressive bibliography on this one below:

http://www.pphp.concordia.ca/fac/pfaus/Pfaus-Kippin-Centeno(2001).pdf

Conditioning and Sexual Behavior: A Review
James G. Pfaus,1 Tod E. Kippin, and Soraya Centeno
Center for Studies in Behavioral Neurobiology, Department of Psychology, Concordia
University, 1455 deMaisonneuve Bldg. W., Montre´al, Que´bec, H3G 1M8 Canada

Sounds like your family friend was a bit of a psycho in many ways. Or else, of course, it's all a made up story by you.

Sounds like agenda-supporting fiction but it doesn't really matter whether one is born gay or learns it.

Either way, its no one's business what consenting adults do together.

 

[KevinWestern]

Being gay is not a choice or something you learn...

Well that would be a new one to my family friend who died from AIDS. He was molested by a man when he was a boy. We believe in the boy scouts actually where he rose to Eagle Scout before it all went south with him. He became obsessively homosexually promiscuous and still kept falling intellectually in love with women. But the imprinting he'd experienced wouldn't allow him to function normally with the women he loved. So he went mad, crazy. Without access to counselling, he embarked on a dark vendetta. Naturally, he got HIV. But in a score he sought to settle, he went out and infected as many of his "perps/fellow victims" as he could before he died the lingering, horrible death of AIDS in his early 30s. Near death he confessed to his brother who conveyed this to us. We estimate at the number and frequency of anonymous sex he had with males, he infected hundreds or perhaps thousands of unwitting partners who then went on to die the same way.

The Mayo Clinic and CDC and about 300 other peer-reviewed studies that support the last link below all disagree with you. Sexual orientations are learned. Not only are they learned, but the last link below found that youngsters on the verge of puberty take clues from their social environment in order to imprint themselves with the type of partners they see others taking sexually.

And that handily explains the sudden jump in HIV cases in just the last years "gay marriage" has been forced by judicial fiat on several states. There has been a 21% rise in just those years of boys ages 13-24 coming down with HIV. To remain politically-correct and politically-ignorant is fine if it makes you feel uncomfortable to face facts. But the facts are now killing kids and the pretending needs to stop in order to save their lives:

The quote you posted says that if someone is molested they are likely to become an offender as an adult.

Question..

How does this relate to a teacher telling kids that "there are gay people and there are straight people" will influence their chances of being gay?


You’re talking about child molestation, which is a deeply traumatizing, life changing violation that sticks with a person forever (and obviously will shape them as an adult). I’m talking about a teacher telling kids that there are “gay people and straight people”.

Two completely different things, lol.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Either way, its no one's business what consenting adults do together.

That's mostly true. It would be better to say what they do in the bedroom. If they are performing liver transplants, even if everyone agrees but no one is a doctor, we have laws against such things. It doesn't really matter what it is, at some point, the State starts to have an interest.

 

[WorldWatcher]

That wasn't the question that I asked. Answer mine first.

I gave you my answer. At a population of about 360,000,000 people in the United States and using a conservative 5% figure that means there are potentially 18,000,000 homosexuals in this country.

For some it's absolutely about equal treatment under the law, for others it can be about "social validation". For me, it's about the reason I cited.



You made a claim that is untrue, now you are diverting and and trying to make it about me instead of showing how all those things can be done for the same $50 cost of a Civil Marriage license (and some or all of the items I listed can be recreated at all)

You've had your answer, it's not my problem that you don't like it.


>>>>

You answered the question you wanted asked, not the one that was asked. That isn't answering the question, it's evading it. You do correctly sense a trap, but trying to evade it doesn't save you from it. Obviously those things are not what drive liberals to gay marriage, it's overwhelmingly the validation. Which is why even you realize it belongs in the legislature if you're honest. QED on that point. Though it literally fails the equal protection clause anyway since being gay does not change how you are treated under the law, it only changes how you want to be treated which isn't covered in the Constitution.

As to your question. Obviously I knew everything on your list when I said it. And you know I'm not an idiot. So I find your badgering tone of apparent cluelessness on why I made the claim a bit odd. I would not disrepect you like that, I know you're not an idiot. I would think you are capable of the same courtesy. So now that we have the real issue, validation out of the way, let's move to the trivialities for sport.

These are government practices which are created by the same liberals who are demanding gay marriage and I have no reason to let them out of their trap. No one should pay these taxes. The death tax is just evil

1. tax free transfer of real property to a spouse

2. exemption from the Estate Tax applicable to the sale of a primary home

These are unconstitutional violations of the 10th amendment.

6. relationship recognized under the Family Medical Leave Act so that a person can care for their spouse (or be cared for by them) in times of medical emergency.

7. Without Civil Marriage there is tax penalty for employer provided health insurance for a spouse of the same gender. (Same-sex Civilly Married couples are charged this extra tax on employer benefits where Different-sex Civilly Married couples are not.)

8. Civil Marriage establishes a family relationship under Social Security whereby the surviving spouse can receive benefits at the working spouses rate if higher then their own.

These while technically true are nailing brads with a sledge hammer. Furthermore, with the decline of government marriage in this country, we need to re-think our paternity laws and responsibilities anyway. Gays are no different in that regard.

3. Without Civil Marriage there is no spousal privilege in the case of a criminal prosecution.

4. Without Civil Marriage there is no burial for a spouse in a National Cemetery next to a spouse who was an honorably serving veteran of the United States.

5. Without Civil Marriage there is no assumed parenthood upon the birth of a child. A $50 marriage license does, for non-Civilly Married couples it would require a formal adoption costing hundreds if not thousands of dollars.

9. Civil Marriage establishes a family relationship where a spouse can then sponsor their spouse for immigration purposes.

10. Not being Civilly Married allows for other relatives to step in and challenge a will under probate court and in some states allows those family members to over ride the decrees of the will.

#1 Federal Taxes are not a 10th Amendment issue, State taxes are but the transfer of property and sale of real property upon the death of a spouse are FEDERAL tax code.

#2 Thank you for admitting they are true.



>>>>

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Being gay is not a choice or something you learn...

Well that would be a new one to my family friend who died from AIDS. He was molested by a man when he was a boy. We believe in the boy scouts actually where he rose to Eagle Scout before it all went south with him. He became obsessively homosexually promiscuous and still kept falling intellectually in love with women. But the imprinting he'd experienced wouldn't allow him to function normally with the women he loved. So he went mad, crazy. Without access to counselling, he embarked on a dark vendetta. Naturally, he got HIV. But in a score he sought to settle, he went out and infected as many of his "perps/fellow victims" as he could before he died the lingering, horrible death of AIDS in his early 30s. Near death he confessed to his brother who conveyed this to us. We estimate at the number and frequency of anonymous sex he had with males, he infected hundreds or perhaps thousands of unwitting partners who then went on to die the same way.

The Mayo Clinic and CDC and about 300 other peer-reviewed studies that support the last link below all disagree with you. Sexual orientations are learned. Not only are they learned, but the last link below found that youngsters on the verge of puberty take clues from their social environment in order to imprint themselves with the type of partners they see others taking sexually.

And that handily explains the sudden jump in HIV cases in just the last years "gay marriage" has been forced by judicial fiat on several states. There has been a 21% rise in just those years of boys ages 13-24 coming down with HIV. To remain politically-correct and politically-ignorant is fine if it makes you feel uncomfortable to face facts. But the facts are now killing kids and the pretending needs to stop in order to save their lives:

The quote you posted says that if someone is molested they are likely to become an offender as an adult.

Question..

How does this relate to a teacher telling kids that "there are gay people and there are straight people" will influence their chances of being gay?


You’re talking about child molestation, which is a deeply traumatizing, life changing violation that sticks with a person forever (and obviously will shape them as an adult). I’m talking about a teacher telling kids that there are “gay people and straight people”.

Two completely different things, lol.

I wasn't gonna point all that out but glad you did.

Its really insulting those who were molested as kids. And very ignorant. Being molested doesn't mean you're going to turn into anything at all.

 

[kaz]

I gave you my answer. At a population of about 360,000,000 people in the United States and using a conservative 5% figure that means there are potentially 18,000,000 homosexuals in this country.

For some it's absolutely about equal treatment under the law, for others it can be about "social validation". For me, it's about the reason I cited.



You made a claim that is untrue, now you are diverting and and trying to make it about me instead of showing how all those things can be done for the same $50 cost of a Civil Marriage license (and some or all of the items I listed can be recreated at all)

You've had your answer, it's not my problem that you don't like it.


>>>>

You answered the question you wanted asked, not the one that was asked. That isn't answering the question, it's evading it. You do correctly sense a trap, but trying to evade it doesn't save you from it. Obviously those things are not what drive liberals to gay marriage, it's overwhelmingly the validation. Which is why even you realize it belongs in the legislature if you're honest. QED on that point. Though it literally fails the equal protection clause anyway since being gay does not change how you are treated under the law, it only changes how you want to be treated which isn't covered in the Constitution.

As to your question. Obviously I knew everything on your list when I said it. And you know I'm not an idiot. So I find your badgering tone of apparent cluelessness on why I made the claim a bit odd. I would not disrepect you like that, I know you're not an idiot. I would think you are capable of the same courtesy. So now that we have the real issue, validation out of the way, let's move to the trivialities for sport.

These are government practices which are created by the same liberals who are demanding gay marriage and I have no reason to let them out of their trap. No one should pay these taxes. The death tax is just evil

1. tax free transfer of real property to a spouse

2. exemption from the Estate Tax applicable to the sale of a primary home

These are unconstitutional violations of the 10th amendment.

6. relationship recognized under the Family Medical Leave Act so that a person can care for their spouse (or be cared for by them) in times of medical emergency.

7. Without Civil Marriage there is tax penalty for employer provided health insurance for a spouse of the same gender. (Same-sex Civilly Married couples are charged this extra tax on employer benefits where Different-sex Civilly Married couples are not.)

8. Civil Marriage establishes a family relationship under Social Security whereby the surviving spouse can receive benefits at the working spouses rate if higher then their own.

These while technically true are nailing brads with a sledge hammer. Furthermore, with the decline of government marriage in this country, we need to re-think our paternity laws and responsibilities anyway. Gays are no different in that regard.

3. Without Civil Marriage there is no spousal privilege in the case of a criminal prosecution.

4. Without Civil Marriage there is no burial for a spouse in a National Cemetery next to a spouse who was an honorably serving veteran of the United States.

5. Without Civil Marriage there is no assumed parenthood upon the birth of a child. A $50 marriage license does, for non-Civilly Married couples it would require a formal adoption costing hundreds if not thousands of dollars.

9. Civil Marriage establishes a family relationship where a spouse can then sponsor their spouse for immigration purposes.

10. Not being Civilly Married allows for other relatives to step in and challenge a will under probate court and in some states allows those family members to over ride the decrees of the will.

#1 Federal Taxes are not a 10th Amendment issue, State taxes are but the transfer of property and sale of real property upon the death of a spouse are FEDERAL tax code.

#2 Thank you for admitting they are true.



>>>>

Huh? The federal taxes weren't in the 10th amendment section. They were in the first section where liberals who want the taxes are the ones who want gays exempted from them. You can't move my bullets around...

 

[WorldWatcher]

You answered the question you wanted asked, not the one that was asked. That isn't answering the question, it's evading it. You do correctly sense a trap, but trying to evade it doesn't save you from it. Obviously those things are not what drive liberals to gay marriage, it's overwhelmingly the validation. Which is why even you realize it belongs in the legislature if you're honest. QED on that point. Though it literally fails the equal protection clause anyway since being gay does not change how you are treated under the law, it only changes how you want to be treated which isn't covered in the Constitution.

As to your question. Obviously I knew everything on your list when I said it. And you know I'm not an idiot. So I find your badgering tone of apparent cluelessness on why I made the claim a bit odd. I would not disrepect you like that, I know you're not an idiot. I would think you are capable of the same courtesy. So now that we have the real issue, validation out of the way, let's move to the trivialities for sport.

These are government practices which are created by the same liberals who are demanding gay marriage and I have no reason to let them out of their trap. No one should pay these taxes. The death tax is just evil

1. tax free transfer of real property to a spouse

2. exemption from the Estate Tax applicable to the sale of a primary home

These are unconstitutional violations of the 10th amendment.

6. relationship recognized under the Family Medical Leave Act so that a person can care for their spouse (or be cared for by them) in times of medical emergency.

7. Without Civil Marriage there is tax penalty for employer provided health insurance for a spouse of the same gender. (Same-sex Civilly Married couples are charged this extra tax on employer benefits where Different-sex Civilly Married couples are not.)

8. Civil Marriage establishes a family relationship under Social Security whereby the surviving spouse can receive benefits at the working spouses rate if higher then their own.

These while technically true are nailing brads with a sledge hammer. Furthermore, with the decline of government marriage in this country, we need to re-think our paternity laws and responsibilities anyway. Gays are no different in that regard.

3. Without Civil Marriage there is no spousal privilege in the case of a criminal prosecution.

4. Without Civil Marriage there is no burial for a spouse in a National Cemetery next to a spouse who was an honorably serving veteran of the United States.

5. Without Civil Marriage there is no assumed parenthood upon the birth of a child. A $50 marriage license does, for non-Civilly Married couples it would require a formal adoption costing hundreds if not thousands of dollars.

9. Civil Marriage establishes a family relationship where a spouse can then sponsor their spouse for immigration purposes.

10. Not being Civilly Married allows for other relatives to step in and challenge a will under probate court and in some states allows those family members to over ride the decrees of the will.

#1 Federal Taxes are not a 10th Amendment issue, State taxes are but the transfer of property and sale of real property upon the death of a spouse are FEDERAL tax code.

#2 Thank you for admitting they are true.



>>>>

Huh? The federal taxes weren't in the 10th amendment section. They were in the first section where liberals who want the taxes are the ones who want gays exempted from them. You can't move my bullets around...

Maybe you should learn to use the quote function and address comments in an understandable manner.

You can't move my bullets around...

Like this.



>>>>

 

[kaz]

Maybe you should learn to use the quote function and address comments in an understandable manner.

You can't move my bullets around...

Like this.



>>>>

Maybe you should read more carefully. I'll add bolding for you

These are government practices which are created by the same liberals who are demanding gay marriage and I have no reason to let them out of their trap. No one should pay these taxes. The death tax is just evil

1. tax free transfer of real property to a spouse

2. exemption from the Estate Tax applicable to the sale of a primary home

These are unconstitutional violations of the 10th amendment.

6. relationship recognized under the Family Medical Leave Act so that a person can care for their spouse (or be cared for by them) in times of medical emergency.

7. Without Civil Marriage there is tax penalty for employer provided health insurance for a spouse of the same gender. (Same-sex Civilly Married couples are charged this extra tax on employer benefits where Different-sex Civilly Married couples are not.)

8. Civil Marriage establishes a family relationship under Social Security whereby the surviving spouse can receive benefits at the working spouses rate if higher then their own.

These while technically true are nailing brads with a sledge hammer. Furthermore, with the decline of government marriage in this country, we need to re-think our paternity laws and responsibilities anyway. Gays are no different in that regard.

3. Without Civil Marriage there is no spousal privilege in the case of a criminal prosecution.

4. Without Civil Marriage there is no burial for a spouse in a National Cemetery next to a spouse who was an honorably serving veteran of the United States.

5. Without Civil Marriage there is no assumed parenthood upon the birth of a child. A $50 marriage license does, for non-Civilly Married couples it would require a formal adoption costing hundreds if not thousands of dollars.

9. Civil Marriage establishes a family relationship where a spouse can then sponsor their spouse for immigration purposes.

10. Not being Civilly Married allows for other relatives to step in and challenge a will under probate court and in some states allows those family members to over ride the decrees of the will.

 

[nodoginnafight]

The Church invited the state to put a governmental "stamp of approval" on their sacrament of marriage.

Big Mistake.

Now the government is exercising THEIR authority to define marriages that they will put their stamp of approval on.

Let this be a lesson lest any should make the same mistake again - the separation of Church and state protects the Church far more than it protects the state.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

...the separation of Church and state protects the Church far more than it protects the state.

Jefferson would agree with you. Be careful who you crawl into bed with. Lay down with dogs and you get fleas works as well.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Maybe you should learn to use the quote function and address comments in an understandable manner.

You can't move my bullets around...

Like this.



>>>>

Maybe you should read more carefully. I'll add bolding for you

These are government practices which are created by the same liberals who are demanding gay marriage and I have no reason to let them out of their trap. No one should pay these taxes. The death tax is just evil

1. tax free transfer of real property to a spouse

2. exemption from the Estate Tax applicable to the sale of a primary home

These are unconstitutional violations of the 10th amendment.

6. relationship recognized under the Family Medical Leave Act so that a person can care for their spouse (or be cared for by them) in times of medical emergency.

7. Without Civil Marriage there is tax penalty for employer provided health insurance for a spouse of the same gender. (Same-sex Civilly Married couples are charged this extra tax on employer benefits where Different-sex Civilly Married couples are not.)

8. Civil Marriage establishes a family relationship under Social Security whereby the surviving spouse can receive benefits at the working spouses rate if higher then their own.

These while technically true are nailing brads with a sledge hammer. Furthermore, with the decline of government marriage in this country, we need to re-think our paternity laws and responsibilities anyway. Gays are no different in that regard.

3. Without Civil Marriage there is no spousal privilege in the case of a criminal prosecution.

4. Without Civil Marriage there is no burial for a spouse in a National Cemetery next to a spouse who was an honorably serving veteran of the United States.

5. Without Civil Marriage there is no assumed parenthood upon the birth of a child. A $50 marriage license does, for non-Civilly Married couples it would require a formal adoption costing hundreds if not thousands of dollars.

9. Civil Marriage establishes a family relationship where a spouse can then sponsor their spouse for immigration purposes.

10. Not being Civilly Married allows for other relatives to step in and challenge a will under probate court and in some states allows those family members to over ride the decrees of the will.

Thanks that's a little clearer.

If the breaking up quotes is to difficult for you, you can use bold to try to separate your sections.

Dosen't change the fact that you said "There is nothing marriage provides gays they can't get without marriage." and the things I listed either can't be reproduced by same-sex couples at all (and there are a lot more) or can't be reproduced for the same 50 bucks it costs a different-sex couple.

You were wrong, you should just have the testicular fortitude to admit it instead of deflecting.

>>>>