Gingrich: Palestinians an ‘invented’ people

[Lakhota]

Promised Land and Land Theft

excerpt from Joshua and the Promised Land

by Roy H. May, Jr.

Israel in Palestine

Today's Jews are quickly associated with the Promised Land of Joshua's time. However, the establishment of the State of Israel by the United Nations in 1948 raises many questions about that relationship. Palestine already was populated by over a half million people. Most were poor Arab farmers and artisans living in villages. Jewish settlers had been arriving for many years. They had purchased large sections of the land (usually from the few, big Palestinian landowners). By 1948, Palestine was a patchwork of Jews and Palestinians, most of whom were Arabs. That changed dramatically after Israel became a nation state.

War broke out immediately between the new country and surrounding Arab nations. Over 725,000 Palestinians sought refuge in nearby lands, mainly in Lebanon. Following the war, the Israeli government began forcibly removing Palestinians from their lands. It also severely restricted Palestinian civil liberties and participation in the national economy. Between 1948 and 1967, nearly 400 Palestinian villages were completely razed. Almost all farmland owned by Palestinians was confiscated. Palestinian farmers were left with only small parcels of poor land. By the 1970s, more than half of it was in the Negeb desert region. (30)

Religious beliefs about the Promised Land were not the bases of the Zionist movements that called for Israel's creation. What moved early Zionists were concerns for the political and cultural security of Jews. Most of the leading voices and founders of Israel, such as David Ben-Gurion, were secular Jews. Still, an historian points out that most Jewish settlers undoubtedly believed "that they had in some way been chosen to 'redeem the Land' and to displace the modern equivalent of the Philistines and Canaanites." (31) For that reason, secular political leaders drew on Promised Land imagery to justify their politics.

Following the "Six Day War" in 1967, religious arguments for Israel's occupation of the land were central. Israel's quick, military victory stimulated a series of highly visible and influential religious movements aimed at "redeeming the land." (32) For Israel, the question of land was a matter neither of economics nor of national security. The reason for taking and keeping the "occupied territories" was religious obligation. These territories rightfully belonged to the Jews and should not be returned, as one leader said, "because wars of conquest were mandatory in Jewish tradition in order to redeem the Holy Land." (33) An historian explains what happened when religion and politics were joined:

By going back to the earliest scriptural texts, the parts of the Bible that defined the Promised Land and told the people to conquer it, the religious purpose of the Israeli people was declared to be the same as the purpose of the state, so long as it kept and colonized the "occupied territories." Thus, twentieth-century Israeli nationalism and some of the most ancient parts of the original Hebrew covenant were joined. (34)​

The old stories of Exodus and Promised Land became justifications for expelling thousands of Palestinians who had lived in the land for generations. As might be expected, many Palestinian Christians find little value in these biblical accounts. Naim S. Ateek, an Anglican priest in Jerusalem, explains:

The God of the Bible, hitherto the God who saves and liberates, has come to be viewed by Palestinians as partial and discriminating. Before the creation of the State [of Israel], the Old Testament was considered to be an essential part of Christian Scripture, pointing and witnessing to Jesus. Since the creation of the State, some Jewish and Christian interpreters have read the Old Testament largely as a Zionist text to such an extent that it has become almost repugnant to Palestinian Christians... The fundamental question of many Christians, whether uttered or not, is: How can the Old Testament be the Word of God in light of the Palestinian Christians' experience with its use to support Zionism? (35)​

Much More: Promised Land, New Israel, Manifest Destiny, and Land Theft

 

[carsondude]

Yes Obama is stupid but Gingrich is a Moron of the lowest order. He couldn't even cause us to be at war because the other countries wouldn't be able to stop laughing at him.

 

[editec]

Gingrich: Palestinians an ‘invented’ people

What's his point?

Americans are an "invented" people, too.

So are the German people, the Italian people, the French people etc., etc., etc.

Gingrich isn't much of an historian, I think.

 

[Si modo]

What a complete asinine talking point this was. When talking about political boundaries - and who the fuck doesn't when discussing Palestine and Israel - there never was a Palestine to begin with. So, yes, in the political sense, Palestine IS invented to describe those who want land from Israel. Their grandparents and great grandparents had been living on the land, but wars often change boundaries.

They are not a unique people as far as ethnic origins are concerned, either. So, yes, Palestine IS invented.

But, because of the conflict, we all know what Palestinians are.

What a fucking lame stretch to invent a talking point.

 

[Cecilie1200]

huh?

"Republican presidential contender Newt Gingrich said in a cable TV interview that Palestinians are an “invented” people with no apparent right to their own state, a rejection of a decade of bipartisan U.S. foreign policy.

Gingrich calls Palestinians an "invented"; people - The Washington Post

Oh lawdy lawdy lawdy...

Yeah, because if the US has been doing something for ten years, that MUST make it correct.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Then America is an invented nation as well.

Well, of course it is, you silly bitch. ALL nations are invented. You don't think those border lines you see on the map actually exist on the ground as a natural formation somewhere, do you? Nations are created by some group saying, "We're going to take this chunk of land over THERE, and we're going to be our own country." And then generally, they have to beat the hell out of everyone else who wants that chunk of land.

America an invented nation? What did you think the purpose of the Revolutionary War WAS?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Elliott Abrams, former deputy national security adviser under Bush:
“There was no Jordan or Syria or Iraq, either, so perhaps he would say they are all invented people as well and also have no right to statehood. Whatever was true then, Palestinian nationalism has grown since 1948, and whether we like it or not, it exists.”

Genius, no one has ever said that Jordanians or Syrians are "a people". They're nationalities. Palestinians, on the other hand, can't be a nationality, because no such nation has ever existed. And they are not a naturally-occurring, separate ethnic group, either.

 

[jillian]

Gingrich: Palestinians an ‘invented’ people

What's his point?

Americans are an "invented" people, too.

So are the German people, the Italian people, the French people etc., etc., etc.

Gingrich isn't much of an historian, I think.

no.. americans are part of a legitimate country and have a legitimate nationality. if one is yelling and shrieking that the pals should be "given" israel, then i wonder if those same people think california and texas should go back to mexico?

 

[jillian]

Anti-Semites?

Palestinians are semitic too you god damned idiot. How the fuck do you tie your shoes in the morning?

the term anti-semite has a particular usage... and it doesn't apply to arabs.. regardless of whether they are a "semitic" people. but you already know that.

 

[thetor]

huh?

"Republican presidential contender Newt Gingrich said in a cable TV interview that Palestinians are an “invented” people with no apparent right to their own state, a rejection of a decade of bipartisan U.S. foreign policy.

Gingrich calls Palestinians an "invented"; people - The Washington Post

Oh lawdy lawdy lawdy...

“Remember, there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire,” Gingrich said. “We have invented the Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs and are historically part of the Arab people, and they had the chance to go many places.”​

He is 100% accurate.

Does accuracy bother you?

Si You really talk complete SHIT

 

[Cecilie1200]

I wonder how the folks in Kansas, for example, would take to the UN coming and declaring Topeka and suburbs as the new American Indian homeland.

Sorry guys, you gotta move.

How do you suppose that would play out?

I suppose that would depend on whether or not the people who actually OWNED Kansas agreed with it. For the purposes of this analogy, that would be the United States. In the case of the formation of the state of Israel, the territory was owned by the British, I believe.

Now that you mention it, I DO seem to recall the United States arbitrarily declaring huge tracts of land as belonging to the North American aborigines without asking what anyone else thought of it. Seems like it played out pretty well, actually.

 

[thetor]

I wonder how the folks in Kansas, for example, would take to the UN coming and declaring Topeka and suburbs as the new American Indian homeland.

Sorry guys, you gotta move.

How do you suppose that would play out?

a more apt analogy would be.. .you live in kansas city. the land is shared by two tribes of native americans and they're told they have to live together peacefully. one tribe says... heck no, and starts war after war against the other tribe and keeps losing.

now.... carry on.

people win and lose land in war ALL the time. the U.N. divvied up a lot of countries after WWII.... most of them are run by Arabs.,,,, including Iraq, the UAR and Jordan... it's only the one little patch of land that ended up run by jews in the sea of arab countries that seems to stick in the craw of certain people..... who should really look into their own conscience and figure out why that would be.

now let's get to reality... they lost. there have to be two countries. it's really that simple. and if the pals' actual goal was a country, and not the destruction of iisrael, they'd have had one a long time ago.

Jew propaganda

 

[Cecilie1200]

I wonder how the folks in Kansas, for example, would take to the UN coming and declaring Topeka and suburbs as the new American Indian homeland.

Sorry guys, you gotta move.

How do you suppose that would play out?

a more apt analogy would be.. .you live in kansas city. the land is shared by two tribes of native americans and they're told they have to live together peacefully. one tribe says... heck no, and starts war after war against the other tribe and keeps losing.

now.... carry on.

people win and lose land in war ALL the time. the U.N. divvied up a lot of countries after WWII.... most of them are run by Arabs.,,,, including Iraq, the UAR and Jordan... it's only the one little patch of land that ended up run by jews in the sea of arab countries that seems to stick in the craw of certain people..... who should really look into their own conscience and figure out why that would be.

now let's get to reality... they lost. there have to be two countries. it's really that simple. and if the pals' actual goal was a country, and not the destruction of iisrael, they'd have had one a long time ago.

I'm finding it very depressing that I'm having to agree with Jillian. It's enough to make me rethink my entire position.

However, in this case, she's right. I guess statistically it was bound to happen eventually.

 

[Toro]

I wonder how the folks in Kansas, for example, would take to the UN coming and declaring Topeka and suburbs as the new American Indian homeland.

Sorry guys, you gotta move.

How do you suppose that would play out?

a more apt analogy would be.. .you live in kansas city. the land is shared by two tribes of native americans and they're told they have to live together peacefully. one tribe says... heck no, and starts war after war against the other tribe and keeps losing.

now.... carry on.

people win and lose land in war ALL the time. the U.N. divvied up a lot of countries after WWII.... most of them are run by Arabs.,,,, including Iraq, the UAR and Jordan... it's only the one little patch of land that ended up run by jews in the sea of arab countries that seems to stick in the craw of certain people..... who should really look into their own conscience and figure out why that would be.

now let's get to reality... they lost. there have to be two countries. it's really that simple. and if the pals' actual goal was a country, and not the destruction of iisrael, they'd have had one a long time ago.

Jew propaganda

The Jews won.

Piss off.

 

[ekrem]

Gingrich: Palestinians an ‘invented’ people

What's his point?

Americans are an "invented" people, too.

So are the German people, the Italian people, the French people etc., etc., etc.

Gingrich isn't much of an historian, I think.

The question is not whether Palestinians are "invented people", but why a so-called presidential candidate has to make statements on anyone outside of USA being "invented people", and what developments within USA drive such a person to make such statements.

 

[Unkotare]

i have no doubt he's read the odd history book or two. .

Was that supposed to be a joke?

 

[jillian]

i have no doubt he's read the odd history book or two. .

Was that supposed to be a joke?

not really. i thought it was an appropriate response to the question asked since the question was intended to be snotty b/c i said i actually agreed with him about something.

 

[Unkotare]

i have no doubt he's read the odd history book or two. .

Was that supposed to be a joke?

not really. i thought it was an appropriate response to the question asked since the question was intended to be snotty b/c i said i actually agreed with him about something.

So, you really think he's only read "the odd history book or two"?

 

[Si modo]

huh?

"Republican presidential contender Newt Gingrich said in a cable TV interview that Palestinians are an “invented” people with no apparent right to their own state, a rejection of a decade of bipartisan U.S. foreign policy.

Gingrich calls Palestinians an "invented"; people - The Washington Post

Oh lawdy lawdy lawdy...

“Remember, there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire,” Gingrich said. “We have invented the Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs and are historically part of the Arab people, and they had the chance to go many places.”​

He is 100% accurate.

Does accuracy bother you?

Si You really talk complete SHIT

I'm crushed.

 

[FA_Q2]

I wonder how the folks in Kansas, for example, would take to the UN coming and declaring Topeka and suburbs as the new American Indian homeland.

Sorry guys, you gotta move.

How do you suppose that would play out?

a more apt analogy would be.. .you live in kansas city. the land is shared by two tribes of native americans and they're told they have to live together peacefully. one tribe says... heck no, and starts war after war against the other tribe and keeps losing.

now.... carry on.

people win and lose land in war ALL the time. the U.N. divvied up a lot of countries after WWII.... most of them are run by Arabs.,,,, including Iraq, the UAR and Jordan... it's only the one little patch of land that ended up run by jews in the sea of arab countries that seems to stick in the craw of certain people..... who should really look into their own conscience and figure out why that would be.

now let's get to reality... they lost. there have to be two countries. it's really that simple. and if the pals' actual goal was a country, and not the destruction of iisrael, they'd have had one a long time ago.

I'm finding it very depressing that I'm having to agree with Jillian. It's enough to make me rethink my entire position.

However, in this case, she's right. I guess statistically it was bound to happen eventually.

Ditto here but as you said, it's bound to happen once or twice.

I fail to see what all the commotion is about. Israel won that land. It's over. The Palestinians are not only continuing to constantly attack them but it is one of their stated goals to destroy them completely. Should Israel bend to that? Hell no. It is showing restraint that they have not eliminated them entirely until they go screaming off somewhere else. We get attacked and we level 2 countries. They get attacked every fucking day and the liberals here cry that it is unfair for them to not offer their lives in tribute. Asinine.