God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

[GreatestIam]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What verse indicates humans have no free will?
Please don't post a video; I want the verse.
You do realize that Avraham, Sara, Yitzchak, Rivka, Yaakov, Rachael and Leah had different personalities and different opinions.

All you have to know that is when Pharaoh's soft heart, that was to let the people go, was hardened against them.

I have a link that is worth the listen, but as requested.
Why does god harden hearts against his own wish to be believed to be god?

In 2 Corinthians 3;14 - 15 God hardens Jewish hearts against their believing in Jesus as their messiah.

John 12;39-40 says about the same.

The same applies to Romans 11;25, 2 Corinthians 4;3-4,

Regards
DL

Everything in the NT was already stated in TJS.
God hardening Pharoah's heart did not take away his free will.
If God wanted to take away Pharoah's b'chirah, God would have put that fact in the Torah.
How many people have been disgusted by doing something they really didn't want do.

You seem to be reading your book of myths literally, and quite foolishly according to the Jewish intelligentsia.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

Cool...Now read the rest of the Talmud page where Moyer's took that from...there's a whole story behind it where that person became a great Torah Scholar.
But I bet you won't track that down and read how out of context and wrong Moyer's is.
In fact, I'm doing the Daf Yomi and I did that page about a month ago.
Moyer's...what a moron.

I do not think you watched the link as Moyer did not quote that. The scholar did.

Regards
DL

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What verse indicates humans have no free will?
Please don't post a video; I want the verse.
You do realize that Avraham, Sara, Yitzchak, Rivka, Yaakov, Rachael and Leah had different personalities and different opinions.

All you have to know that is when Pharaoh's soft heart, that was to let the people go, was hardened against them.

I have a link that is worth the listen, but as requested.
Why does god harden hearts against his own wish to be believed to be god?

In 2 Corinthians 3;14 - 15 God hardens Jewish hearts against their believing in Jesus as their messiah.

John 12;39-40 says about the same.

The same applies to Romans 11;25, 2 Corinthians 4;3-4,

Regards
DL

Everything in the NT was already stated in TJS.
God hardening Pharoah's heart did not take away his free will.
If God wanted to take away Pharoah's b'chirah, God would have put that fact in the Torah.
How many people have been disgusted by doing something they really didn't want do.

You seem to be reading your book of myths literally, and quite foolishly according to the Jewish intelligentsia.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

Is that why there are over 3,000 commentaries written about this verse alone?
To harden someone's heart makes it more difficult, but not impossible, to do what one finds repugnant.
Of course the main issue is that Pharoah, despite all the plauges, still lived and slept peacefully in his palace.
Even with Pharoah's heart being hardened by God Himself, when Pharoah was struck personally by the Death of the First Born, he chased the Children of Israel out of Egypt.
You know why?
Because Pharoah's wife had sex with many men and many of her children were the First Born of her adulterous lovers.
This hit Pharoah personally.
And please stop using the NT; we both know it's a farce.

I do not really care what some think of the depth of god's hardening of hearts.
We can never know how deep it goes, but we can know that any at all interferes with choices. If it did not, then god is a fool for not doing his will via doing it.

I focus more on Yahweh, the unjust prick, killing the children for what their parents did.

Thr N.T. is what it is. If you cannot see it's value as compliment to the O.T., that is your problem.
It is there, IMO, to contrast the really big prick, Yahweh, with the kinder gentler Jesus.

Call the N.T. Yin to go with the O.T. Yang.

You do not seem to know that the bible, as well as my own myths were just written for talking points before Christianity went stupid and started to read their myths literally.

Now you know so smarten up.

Regards
DL

Tell me what God did to the children that was terrible.
In context.
Because I know you left out the verses that preceded your reason for being a crybaby.

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What verse indicates humans have no free will?
Please don't post a video; I want the verse.
You do realize that Avraham, Sara, Yitzchak, Rivka, Yaakov, Rachael and Leah had different personalities and different opinions.

All you have to know that is when Pharaoh's soft heart, that was to let the people go, was hardened against them.

I have a link that is worth the listen, but as requested.
Why does god harden hearts against his own wish to be believed to be god?

In 2 Corinthians 3;14 - 15 God hardens Jewish hearts against their believing in Jesus as their messiah.

John 12;39-40 says about the same.

The same applies to Romans 11;25, 2 Corinthians 4;3-4,

Regards
DL

Everything in the NT was already stated in TJS.
God hardening Pharoah's heart did not take away his free will.
If God wanted to take away Pharoah's b'chirah, God would have put that fact in the Torah.
How many people have been disgusted by doing something they really didn't want do.

You seem to be reading your book of myths literally, and quite foolishly according to the Jewish intelligentsia.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

Cool...Now read the rest of the Talmud page where Moyer's took that from...there's a whole story behind it where that person became a great Torah Scholar.
But I bet you won't track that down and read how out of context and wrong Moyer's is.
In fact, I'm doing the Daf Yomi and I did that page about a month ago.
Moyer's...what a moron.

I do not think you watched the link as Moyer did not quote that. The scholar did.

Regards
DL

Prove you watched it...tell me why the person approached Hillel or admit Moyer's doesn't say why.
I bet you can't because I bet Moyer's just blurted out an out-of-context soundbite that you fell for like a ton of bricks.

 

[GreatestIam]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What verse indicates humans have no free will?
Please don't post a video; I want the verse.
You do realize that Avraham, Sara, Yitzchak, Rivka, Yaakov, Rachael and Leah had different personalities and different opinions.

All you have to know that is when Pharaoh's soft heart, that was to let the people go, was hardened against them.

I have a link that is worth the listen, but as requested.
Why does god harden hearts against his own wish to be believed to be god?

In 2 Corinthians 3;14 - 15 God hardens Jewish hearts against their believing in Jesus as their messiah.

John 12;39-40 says about the same.

The same applies to Romans 11;25, 2 Corinthians 4;3-4,

Regards
DL

Everything in the NT was already stated in TJS.
God hardening Pharoah's heart did not take away his free will.
If God wanted to take away Pharoah's b'chirah, God would have put that fact in the Torah.
How many people have been disgusted by doing something they really didn't want do.

You seem to be reading your book of myths literally, and quite foolishly according to the Jewish intelligentsia.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

Is that why there are over 3,000 commentaries written about this verse alone?
To harden someone's heart makes it more difficult, but not impossible, to do what one finds repugnant.
Of course the main issue is that Pharoah, despite all the plauges, still lived and slept peacefully in his palace.
Even with Pharoah's heart being hardened by God Himself, when Pharoah was struck personally by the Death of the First Born, he chased the Children of Israel out of Egypt.
You know why?
Because Pharoah's wife had sex with many men and many of her children were the First Born of her adulterous lovers.
This hit Pharoah personally.
And please stop using the NT; we both know it's a farce.

I do not really care what some think of the depth of god's hardening of hearts.
We can never know how deep it goes, but we can know that any at all interferes with choices. If it did not, then god is a fool for not doing his will via doing it.

I focus more on Yahweh, the unjust prick, killing the children for what their parents did.

Thr N.T. is what it is. If you cannot see it's value as compliment to the O.T., that is your problem.
It is there, IMO, to contrast the really big prick, Yahweh, with the kinder gentler Jesus.

Call the N.T. Yin to go with the O.T. Yang.

You do not seem to know that the bible, as well as my own myths were just written for talking points before Christianity went stupid and started to read their myths literally.

Now you know so smarten up.

Regards
DL

Tell me what God did to the children that was terrible.
In context.
Because I know you left out the verses that preceded your reason for being a crybaby.

If you do not know, I recommend you read the story for the first time.

Hint. Substitutional punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty.

A repeat that of what I put above.

Regards
DL

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What verse indicates humans have no free will?
Please don't post a video; I want the verse.
You do realize that Avraham, Sara, Yitzchak, Rivka, Yaakov, Rachael and Leah had different personalities and different opinions.

All you have to know that is when Pharaoh's soft heart, that was to let the people go, was hardened against them.

I have a link that is worth the listen, but as requested.
Why does god harden hearts against his own wish to be believed to be god?

In 2 Corinthians 3;14 - 15 God hardens Jewish hearts against their believing in Jesus as their messiah.

John 12;39-40 says about the same.

The same applies to Romans 11;25, 2 Corinthians 4;3-4,

Regards
DL

Everything in the NT was already stated in TJS.
God hardening Pharoah's heart did not take away his free will.
If God wanted to take away Pharoah's b'chirah, God would have put that fact in the Torah.
How many people have been disgusted by doing something they really didn't want do.

You seem to be reading your book of myths literally, and quite foolishly according to the Jewish intelligentsia.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

Is that why there are over 3,000 commentaries written about this verse alone?
To harden someone's heart makes it more difficult, but not impossible, to do what one finds repugnant.
Of course the main issue is that Pharoah, despite all the plauges, still lived and slept peacefully in his palace.
Even with Pharoah's heart being hardened by God Himself, when Pharoah was struck personally by the Death of the First Born, he chased the Children of Israel out of Egypt.
You know why?
Because Pharoah's wife had sex with many men and many of her children were the First Born of her adulterous lovers.
This hit Pharoah personally.
And please stop using the NT; we both know it's a farce.

I do not really care what some think of the depth of god's hardening of hearts.
We can never know how deep it goes, but we can know that any at all interferes with choices. If it did not, then god is a fool for not doing his will via doing it.

I focus more on Yahweh, the unjust prick, killing the children for what their parents did.

Thr N.T. is what it is. If you cannot see it's value as compliment to the O.T., that is your problem.
It is there, IMO, to contrast the really big prick, Yahweh, with the kinder gentler Jesus.

Call the N.T. Yin to go with the O.T. Yang.

You do not seem to know that the bible, as well as my own myths were just written for talking points before Christianity went stupid and started to read their myths literally.

Now you know so smarten up.

Regards
DL

Tell me what God did to the children that was terrible.
In context.
Because I know you left out the verses that preceded your reason for being a crybaby.

If you do not know, I recommend you read the story for the first time.

Hint. Substitutional punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty.

A repeat that of what I put above.

Regards
DL

Really?
Left's say that based on your posting history, you always pretend to be such a great, honest intellectual when all you are is full of out-of-context hot air.
Tell me exactly which verse you start with and I'll show you where to start reading and understanding.

 

[GreatestIam]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What verse indicates humans have no free will?
Please don't post a video; I want the verse.
You do realize that Avraham, Sara, Yitzchak, Rivka, Yaakov, Rachael and Leah had different personalities and different opinions.

All you have to know that is when Pharaoh's soft heart, that was to let the people go, was hardened against them.

I have a link that is worth the listen, but as requested.
Why does god harden hearts against his own wish to be believed to be god?

In 2 Corinthians 3;14 - 15 God hardens Jewish hearts against their believing in Jesus as their messiah.

John 12;39-40 says about the same.

The same applies to Romans 11;25, 2 Corinthians 4;3-4,

Regards
DL

Everything in the NT was already stated in TJS.
God hardening Pharoah's heart did not take away his free will.
If God wanted to take away Pharoah's b'chirah, God would have put that fact in the Torah.
How many people have been disgusted by doing something they really didn't want do.

You seem to be reading your book of myths literally, and quite foolishly according to the Jewish intelligentsia.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

Is that why there are over 3,000 commentaries written about this verse alone?
To harden someone's heart makes it more difficult, but not impossible, to do what one finds repugnant.
Of course the main issue is that Pharoah, despite all the plauges, still lived and slept peacefully in his palace.
Even with Pharoah's heart being hardened by God Himself, when Pharoah was struck personally by the Death of the First Born, he chased the Children of Israel out of Egypt.
You know why?
Because Pharoah's wife had sex with many men and many of her children were the First Born of her adulterous lovers.
This hit Pharoah personally.
And please stop using the NT; we both know it's a farce.

I do not really care what some think of the depth of god's hardening of hearts.
We can never know how deep it goes, but we can know that any at all interferes with choices. If it did not, then god is a fool for not doing his will via doing it.

I focus more on Yahweh, the unjust prick, killing the children for what their parents did.

Thr N.T. is what it is. If you cannot see it's value as compliment to the O.T., that is your problem.
It is there, IMO, to contrast the really big prick, Yahweh, with the kinder gentler Jesus.

Call the N.T. Yin to go with the O.T. Yang.

You do not seem to know that the bible, as well as my own myths were just written for talking points before Christianity went stupid and started to read their myths literally.

Now you know so smarten up.

Regards
DL

Tell me what God did to the children that was terrible.
In context.
Because I know you left out the verses that preceded your reason for being a crybaby.

If you do not know, I recommend you read the story for the first time.

Hint. Substitutional punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty.

A repeat that of what I put above.

Regards
DL

Really?
Left's say that based on your posting history, you always pretend to be such a great, honest intellectual when all you are is full of out-of-context hot air.
Tell me exactly which verse you start with and I'll show you where to start reading and understanding.

I have no time to give you what you think is hot air.

If you have something to show me, go ahead.

Regards
DL

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What verse indicates humans have no free will?
Please don't post a video; I want the verse.
You do realize that Avraham, Sara, Yitzchak, Rivka, Yaakov, Rachael and Leah had different personalities and different opinions.

All you have to know that is when Pharaoh's soft heart, that was to let the people go, was hardened against them.

I have a link that is worth the listen, but as requested.
Why does god harden hearts against his own wish to be believed to be god?

In 2 Corinthians 3;14 - 15 God hardens Jewish hearts against their believing in Jesus as their messiah.

John 12;39-40 says about the same.

The same applies to Romans 11;25, 2 Corinthians 4;3-4,

Regards
DL

Everything in the NT was already stated in TJS.
God hardening Pharoah's heart did not take away his free will.
If God wanted to take away Pharoah's b'chirah, God would have put that fact in the Torah.
How many people have been disgusted by doing something they really didn't want do.

You seem to be reading your book of myths literally, and quite foolishly according to the Jewish intelligentsia.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

Is that why there are over 3,000 commentaries written about this verse alone?
To harden someone's heart makes it more difficult, but not impossible, to do what one finds repugnant.
Of course the main issue is that Pharoah, despite all the plauges, still lived and slept peacefully in his palace.
Even with Pharoah's heart being hardened by God Himself, when Pharoah was struck personally by the Death of the First Born, he chased the Children of Israel out of Egypt.
You know why?
Because Pharoah's wife had sex with many men and many of her children were the First Born of her adulterous lovers.
This hit Pharoah personally.
And please stop using the NT; we both know it's a farce.

I do not really care what some think of the depth of god's hardening of hearts.
We can never know how deep it goes, but we can know that any at all interferes with choices. If it did not, then god is a fool for not doing his will via doing it.

I focus more on Yahweh, the unjust prick, killing the children for what their parents did.

Thr N.T. is what it is. If you cannot see it's value as compliment to the O.T., that is your problem.
It is there, IMO, to contrast the really big prick, Yahweh, with the kinder gentler Jesus.

Call the N.T. Yin to go with the O.T. Yang.

You do not seem to know that the bible, as well as my own myths were just written for talking points before Christianity went stupid and started to read their myths literally.

Now you know so smarten up.

Regards
DL

Tell me what God did to the children that was terrible.
In context.
Because I know you left out the verses that preceded your reason for being a crybaby.

If you do not know, I recommend you read the story for the first time.

Hint. Substitutional punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty.

A repeat that of what I put above.

Regards
DL

Really?
Left's say that based on your posting history, you always pretend to be such a great, honest intellectual when all you are is full of out-of-context hot air.
Tell me exactly which verse you start with and I'll show you where to start reading and understanding.

I have no time to give you what you think is hot air.

If you have something to show me, go ahead.

Regards
DL

Yeah...like using the Internet for what...10 seconds..to look at a few verses to prove what an ignoramus you are.
Thanks for admitting you're not a fraction of the honest intellectual you pretend to be.

 

[ding]

Another link for you (all) to examine:

Genesis

theisraelbible.com

1 Everyone on earth had the same language and the same words.

vai-HEE khol ha-A-retz sa-FAH e-KHAT ud-va-REEM a-kha-DEEM

א וַיְהִי כָל־הָאָרֶץ שָׂפָה אֶחָת וּדְבָרִים אֲחָדִים

tt

Which site?
I got a Google search page, not that result.
I'll find the problem when I get to that specific page.
By the way, the entire verse is interpreted incorrectly...
And it was all the earth was of one intention and one (the last two words are very hard to translate because they contradict the last phrase) and a unity of commands.
Wow! You have shed some light on me...the peer pressure then must have been unbearable...no one down the line questioned a command.

In Hebrew, the word "speech" does no mean language, it means means of communication.
You have to decide whether you want to think
or think like a Christian aka the way the Holy Roman Church wanted you to think.

Just click on the link.

Genesis

theisraelbible.com

It is from the Israel Bible.

I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses - we get our beliefs from the Bible, not the Catholic church.

I gave you the definitions of both Hebrew words in Genesis 11:1 - you still have not given a reference or link anyone reading this thread can check on for accuracy and context.

I am fully aware of the mechanisms of the JWs.
Your main source is an English translation far removed from the original Hebrew.
Like myself for a very long time you are reading paragraphs without understanding them.
Don’t get emotional...study the paragraphs you are posting.

False. NW is directly from the Hebrew text to English. One proof of this is that we translate the Divine Name into English in its nearly 7,000 occurrences in the Hebrew Scriptures into English as Jehovah not Lord. H3068/yehovah/Jehovah - not H113/adon/Lord nor H136/adonay/Lord (emphatic).

KJV only does this in four of the nearly 7,000 occurrences of the Divine Name - e.g. Psalms 83:18.

Talk about evil - removing the name of the author of the Bible is blasphemous. And it is not just Christendom's Bible translations that remove the Divine Name in its Bible translations - Jewish Bible translations do this as well. At least Jewish Hebrew texts have the Divine Name in Hebrew. And the Jewish Greek Septuagint had the Divine Name in Hebrew characters until it was removed from copies after Jesus' time.

God is the author of all existence.
God used a plan, just like an architect.
The plan is called the Torah.
The word Torah means "To enlighten".
The Torah mush be learned in the sequence in which God communicated it to Moshe to then write down and distribute it to the Children of Israel in the Desert and forever more.

The Septuagint was written, just like the Kings James Bible by the leading Torah scholars of the day.
The Torah scholars purposely put in a lot of errors so that no Jew back then would ever make the mistake of thinking they were "Holy".
You must revisit how you think history unfolded.
If we were to sit at a table I would ask you if you know basic Hebrew without using the internet or a textbook and if you studied the Jewish Scriptures starting from Genesis 1:1.
If you said "No", we would have a drink or two and a treat and discuss anything you wish with me correcting all of the mistaken ideas you've been taught.
When the meeting was over, I would sincerely ask you to spend 3 months learning a bit of Hebrew and please return when you have done so.
You would never return.

I have several retired neighbors who do this all the time.
As soon as my neighbors ask the JWs to at the door to spend 3 months learning Hebrew, the JWs get a confused look on their faces and become lost for words.
My neighbors invite them in anyway for a drink and to relax for a few minutes.

You cannot simply change the paradigm that Moshe received from God and gave to the Children of Israel because we are faithful to God.

You may say that makes us cannibal or morons.
On the other hand, you may look in puzzlement at why we dominate all of the upper echelon professions and receive a disproportional number of Nobel Prizes.
One reason may be because we are focused on what God wants us to be in His world, not focused on what we think others should believe in.

But don't fret...I even laugh at Artscroll's English translations.
But I get why Artscroll does it; the only people who know what's going on in Tanach are those that do it in Hebrew and do it in sequence.

God is the author of existence. God did use a plan just like an architect. But that plan is not limited to the Torah. The Torah is a part of his plan. God’s entire plan is the whole of existence.

Not all children of Israel are faithful to God. In fact, the history of your people is a history of cycling through remembering and forgetting God and what happens when they do.

Yes, your people’s continued survival and success for 3,000 years is inexplicable but all credit goes to God. There is nothing special about your people.

 

[ding]

Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

That’s a very dangerous proposition.

which is why secular humanism is the greatest threat to liberty and freedom mankind has known.

The early Gnostics were communists. So it’s not a surprise that you believe you are a God. Communism is naturalized humanism.

 

[ding]

So are rape and murder good or evil?

There is nothing good about them. Do you blame God for it?

You don’t have perfect knowledge so you can’t see how good can come from bad. God has perfect knowledge. God has created a creation where everything works for good. I accept this on faith.

I suggest you read Job Chapter 40.

But you've just claimed that people do evil things for personal good.
Blame has nothing to do with it.

Don't sidestep the question.

Yes, that is correct. People don’t do evil for the sake of evil. They do evil for their own selfish good. That doesn’t mean that God created evil as you have suggested.

and don’t forget that when I use the term evil it means absence of good. I only use the term evil for literary convenience.

God did not create evil. Everything God created is good. So yes, when you say God created evil you are literally blaming God for the bad acts of man. The logical conclusion of your belief is that if God had not created evil there would be no bad acts of men. Hence you ARE blaming God for the bad acts of men.

 

[ding]

It's like calling rape and murder both "lack of good" and "personal good" in the same breath, trying to hold the stick by both ends - to rationalize immorality.

Nowhere in this discussion am I rationalizing immorality. I am defending God.

If you claim that people can do no bad, no evil,
then you're not defending G-d, rather excusing every human immorality.

Wrong. Because it not that man can do no bad or evil. It’s that man chooses not to do good. That’s on man. It’s man’s choice not to do good. It isn’t because God created evil. It’s not God’s fault man chooses not to do good. It’s man’s fault.

and yes, I am totally defending God here. Your saying God created evil is wrong and leads to the logical conclusion that the bad acts of man are God’s fault because logically if God had not created evil man could do no bad acts.

 

[Newtonian]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Yes, Adam and Eve had a choice to eat of the forbidden fruit or not to eat.

Also, if Jehovah knew she would eat of the fruit - the test of obedience would have been a sham.

That Jehovah did not know the wicked outcome is shown by His being hurt at heart when the wickedness had grown intolerably worse shortly before the flood - note:

Genesis 6:6
And Jehovah felt regrets+ that he had made men in the earth, and he felt hurt at his heart.+

Jehovah sounds quote satanic.

He regretted creating us in his incompetent way, but not for using genocide.

That shows his satanic nature. He does not have the good moral sense to repent for his sins and crimes against humanity.

Regards
DL

Perhaps to Spiritualists. But that is certainly not what the Bible teaches about Jehovah.

John 8:44 shows Satan is a liar.

1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.+

 

[ding]

First by denying there's evil, to make way for it to be further equated with personal good.
That cognitive dissonance wouldn't be needed if you didn't recognize vengeance/greed as evil in the first place.

I am not denying that bad things happen to good people. I am denying that evil is extant. I am denying that God created evil. It isn’t possible for God to create evil because evil is against God’s nature and God cannot oppose himself. God cannot oppose his nature. Which is exactly the reason God never destroys what he creates because what he creates is good. Destroying what he created would be opposing his nature.

G-d cannot?
Now to excuse your confusion you're confining G-d?

You're only saying there's no evil, but the conclusion of every argument you make excuses human immorality and places G-d as the only source of all evil. By saying "bad things happen", you're contradicting your claim by both recognizing bad exists, and excusing that evil doings of a human are "personal good", therefore concluding all that is bad comes solely from G-d.

How do you come to terms with this self-contradiction?

Yes, God cannot oppose himself. I am not confining God. It is a logical fallacy to believe God not opposing himself is a limitation on God.

Again, it is not my conclusion that man is blameless. That is literally the logical conclusion of your argument that God created evil.

if man chooses to not do good - which is the proper way of stating it - then that is on man and it’s man’s fault that he didn’t do good.

if it is as you say - which is God created evil - then man is blameless when he does evil because if God hadn’t created evil then man couldn’t have done evil.

 

[Mindful]

The early Gnostics were communists?

 

[esalla]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

Nope and if you believe in God you should also believe that God cast satan out and that the only way satan gets back in is by effecting the weak

 

[Newtonian]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What verse indicates humans have no free will?
Please don't post a video; I want the verse.
You do realize that Avraham, Sara, Yitzchak, Rivka, Yaakov, Rachael and Leah had different personalities and different opinions.

All you have to know that is when Pharaoh's soft heart, that was to let the people go, was hardened against them.

I have a link that is worth the listen, but as requested.
Why does god harden hearts against his own wish to be believed to be god?

In 2 Corinthians 3;14 - 15 God hardens Jewish hearts against their believing in Jesus as their messiah.

John 12;39-40 says about the same.

The same applies to Romans 11;25, 2 Corinthians 4;3-4,

Regards
DL

Everything in the NT was already stated in TJS.
God hardening Pharoah's heart did not take away his free will.
If God wanted to take away Pharoah's b'chirah, God would have put that fact in the Torah.
How many people have been disgusted by doing something they really didn't want do.

You seem to be reading your book of myths literally, and quite foolishly according to the Jewish intelligentsia.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

Is that why there are over 3,000 commentaries written about this verse alone?
To harden someone's heart makes it more difficult, but not impossible, to do what one finds repugnant.
Of course the main issue is that Pharoah, despite all the plauges, still lived and slept peacefully in his palace.
Even with Pharoah's heart being hardened by God Himself, when Pharoah was struck personally by the Death of the First Born, he chased the Children of Israel out of Egypt.
You know why?
Because Pharoah's wife had sex with many men and many of her children were the First Born of her adulterous lovers.
This hit Pharoah personally.
And please stop using the NT; we both know it's a farce.

3,000 commentaries? Can you document that.

Pharoah died in the Red Sea.

Psalms 136:15
He shook off Pharʹaoh and his army into the Red Sea,+
For his loyal love endures forever.

 

[ding]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

G-d didn’t create evil. Everything G-d created is good. No one does evil for evil’s sake. Evil is not extant. Evil is the absence of good. So G-d did not create evil.

Not sure I can agree no one does evil for its own sake.
However, and who created the possibility for the "absence of good"?

People do “evil” for the sake of their own good. Whether it be for greed, pleasure, vengeance, etc. they don’t do “evil” for the sake of evil. Most rationalize their actions as good.

Yes, God does allow us to have absence of good and to rationalize our actions. That doesn’t make it his fault. We don’t have perfect knowledge. We can’t always see how everything works for good. But I have faith that it does. Suffering and hardship has a way of teaching successful behaviors that can’t be learned any other way.

But that's exactly what you're trying to rationalize.
First by denying there's evil, to make way for it to be further equated with personal good.
That cognitive dissonance wouldn't be needed if you didn't recognize vengeance/greed as evil in the first place.

It's like calling rape and murder both "lack of good" and "personal good" in the same breath, trying to hold the stick by both ends - to rationalize immorality.

So are rape and murder good or evil?

I don’t believe you quite understand the concept of rationalizing a wrong as a right if that’s how you see my belief that God did not create evil. When God asked Adam if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam replied the woman you made gave it to me. That was Adam rationalizing that he didn’t do wrong. When God asked Eve, if she ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Eve replied the serpent deceived me. That was her rationalizing that she didn’t do wrong. When I state God did not create evil, I have nothing to gain from this. I certainly am not responsible for the absence of good in others. I am only responsible for the absence of good in myself. It isn’t a rationalization to say that evil or darkness or cold are not extant. That is literally a fact. They don’t exist in and of themselves. They only exist in relation to the extant phenomenon. Cold is the absence of heat. Darkness is the absence of light and evil is the absence of good. Light, heat and good exist.

Your own religious text tells you that everything God created is good. We can know through inspection that existence is good. It is better to exist than to not exist. Nature verifies that there is a preference to exist. Living things fight to exist. We can know through inspection that man prefers good over the absence of good. We can know through inspection that nature prefers good over the absence of good. Virtue is the greatest organizing principle known to mankind. Societies that live with virtue experience peace and harmony. Societies that live without virtue experience discord and chaos. Not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. This is the moral law at work. You can see in almost all quarrels men arguing fairness. They argue they are being fair and good and their adversary is being unfair and not good. You never hear someone say the hell with being fair and good. Screw your goodness. No one has ever done evil for the sake of evil. They do evil for the sake of their own good. And then they rationalize that what they are doing is good.

This is just circular reasoning.

Don't weasel out by using different term for the same thing, i.e." no bad but wrong", "no evil but lack of good"...and then go around and equate that all to "personal good".
G-d says there's the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad, you say can't.

You say evil is not extant, G-d cannot create bad, man at least does "personal good"....
Then the conclusion of all that is that evil exists on its own - although you won't admit, but as long as you don't choose one and stick with it, all you do is argue for two separate powers.

I'm not saying that everything G-d does isn't good, I'm saying you're confused, and this is normal,the subject has challenged the best of minds throughout the history of humanity. You just have to follow a consistent line of logic to make any sense in all that.

And on the side line, Adam and Eve didn't deny they did wrong, all they did was explained what caused them to chose the way they did, that isn't denial that is admitting. The reason why you need to add things to their words is only because of the confusion explained above.

The correct and consistent line of thought is this:
G-d created Adam, and gave him freedom of choice, and for that freedom to exist also created the possibility for him to do bad/evil/wrong/not good - choose any term you prefer.

There is nothing circular about it. I am not weaseling out of anything. Evil is not extant. Evil is the absence of good. This is a simple concept and irrefutable.

my argument is arguing for one power, God. And everything God created is good. God did not create “evil.” Evil does not exist. Only good exists. So how am I arguing for two powers? I’m not. I’m defending God from your statement that God created evil. If anything you are the one arguing for two powers. One power is good and the other power is evil.

I even showed you using your own religious texts that man prefers good. And that when man doesn’t do good, rather than abandoning good, man rationalizes that he did good. see? I just put everything in the terms of good.

you are the one who is making equivocations when you falsely accuse God of creating evil.

 

[Newtonian]

It's like calling rape and murder both "lack of good" and "personal good" in the same breath, trying to hold the stick by both ends - to rationalize immorality.

Nowhere in this discussion am I rationalizing immorality. I am defending God.

If you claim that people can do no bad, no evil,
then you're not defending G-d, rather excusing every human immorality.

Wrong. Because it not that man can do no bad or evil. It’s that man chooses not to do good. That’s on man. It’s man’s choice not to do good. It isn’t because God created evil. It’s not God’s fault man chooses not to do good. It’s man’s fault.

and yes, I am totally defending God here. Your saying God created evil is wrong and leads to the logical conclusion that the bad acts of man are God’s fault because logically if God had not created evil man could do no bad acts.

Well, ding, we agree on that.

Is God Trying You with Evil? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"The Christian disciple James gives us real insight regarding this. He wrote: “When under trial, let no one say: ‘I am being tried by God.’ For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.” (Jas. 1:13) These words point up the fact that it is contrary to Jehovah God’s personality to try any of his intelligent creatures with evil."

 

[ding]

The early Gnostics were communists?

Yes. Read the first 10 pages or so of Chapter 2 of part 1 of the socialist phenomenon by Shafarevich.

The Socialist Phenomenon

 

[Mindful]

The early Gnostics were communists?

Yes. Read the first 10 pages or so of Chapter 2 of part 1 of the socialist phenomenon by Shafarevich.

The Socialist Phenomenon

Or so?