God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

[Indeependent]

Another link for you (all) to examine:

Genesis

theisraelbible.com

1 Everyone on earth had the same language and the same words.

vai-HEE khol ha-A-retz sa-FAH e-KHAT ud-va-REEM a-kha-DEEM

א וַיְהִי כָל־הָאָרֶץ שָׂפָה אֶחָת וּדְבָרִים אֲחָדִים

tt

Which site?
I got a Google search page, not that result.
I'll find the problem when I get to that specific page.
By the way, the entire verse is interpreted incorrectly...
And it was all the earth was of one intention and one (the last two words are very hard to translate because they contradict the last phrase) and a unity of commands.
Wow! You have shed some light on me...the peer pressure then must have been unbearable...no one down the line questioned a command.

In Hebrew, the word "speech" does no mean language, it means means of communication.
You have to decide whether you want to think
or think like a Christian aka the way the Holy Roman Church wanted you to think.

Just click on the link.

Genesis

theisraelbible.com

It is from the Israel Bible.

I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses - we get our beliefs from the Bible, not the Catholic church.

I gave you the definitions of both Hebrew words in Genesis 11:1 - you still have not given a reference or link anyone reading this thread can check on for accuracy and context.

I am fully aware of the mechanisms of the JWs.
Your main source is an English translation far removed from the original Hebrew.
Like myself for a very long time you are reading paragraphs without understanding them.
Don’t get emotional...study the paragraphs you are posting.

False. NW is directly from the Hebrew text to English. One proof of this is that we translate the Divine Name into English in its nearly 7,000 occurrences in the Hebrew Scriptures into English as Jehovah not Lord. H3068/yehovah/Jehovah - not H113/adon/Lord nor H136/adonay/Lord (emphatic).

KJV only does this in four of the nearly 7,000 occurrences of the Divine Name - e.g. Psalms 83:18.

Talk about evil - removing the name of the author of the Bible is blasphemous. And it is not just Christendom's Bible translations that remove the Divine Name in its Bible translations - Jewish Bible translations do this as well. At least Jewish Hebrew texts have the Divine Name in Hebrew. And the Jewish Greek Septuagint had the Divine Name in Hebrew characters until it was removed from copies after Jesus' time.

God is the author of all existence.
God used a plan, just like an architect.
The plan is called the Torah.
The word Torah means "To enlighten".
The Torah mush be learned in the sequence in which God communicated it to Moshe to then write down and distribute it to the Children of Israel in the Desert and forever more.

The Septuagint was written, just like the Kings James Bible by the leading Torah scholars of the day.
The Torah scholars purposely put in a lot of errors so that no Jew back then would ever make the mistake of thinking they were "Holy".
You must revisit how you think history unfolded.
If we were to sit at a table I would ask you if you know basic Hebrew without using the internet or a textbook and if you studied the Jewish Scriptures starting from Genesis 1:1.
If you said "No", we would have a drink or two and a treat and discuss anything you wish with me correcting all of the mistaken ideas you've been taught.
When the meeting was over, I would sincerely ask you to spend 3 months learning a bit of Hebrew and please return when you have done so.
You would never return.

I have several retired neighbors who do this all the time.
As soon as my neighbors ask the JWs to at the door to spend 3 months learning Hebrew, the JWs get a confused look on their faces and become lost for words.
My neighbors invite them in anyway for a drink and to relax for a few minutes.

You cannot simply change the paradigm that Moshe received from God and gave to the Children of Israel because we are faithful to God.

You may say that makes us cannibal or morons.
On the other hand, you may look in puzzlement at why we dominate all of the upper echelon professions and receive a disproportional number of Nobel Prizes.
One reason may be because we are focused on what God wants us to be in His world, not focused on what we think others should believe in.

But don't fret...I even laugh at Artscroll's English translations.
But I get why Artscroll does it; the only people who know what's going on in Tanach are those that do it in Hebrew and do it in sequence.

 

[Indeependent]

So, if it wasn't Jews that worked on the Septuagint, who did?

From the Jewish Encyclopedia:

jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/3269-bible-translations
"
"The Septuagint.
The oldest and most important of all the versions made by Jews is that called "The Septuagint" ("Interpretatio septuaginta virorum" or "seniorum"). It is a monument of the Greek spoken by the large and important Jewish community of Alexandria; not of classic Greek, nor even of the Hellenistic style affected by Alexandrian writers.

Septuagint | Greek, Hebrew & Aramaic Sources

Septuagint, the earliest extant Greek translation of the Old Testament from the original Hebrew. The Septuagint was presumably made for the Jewish community in Egypt when Greek was the common language throughout the region. Analysis of the language has established that the Torah, or Pentateuch (the

www.britannica.com

"Septuagint, abbreviation LXX, the earliest extant Greek translation of the Old Testament from the original Hebrew. The Septuagint was presumably made for the Jewish community in Egypt when Greek was the common language throughout the region. Analysis of the language has established that the Torah, or Pentateuch (the first five books of the Old Testament), was translated near the middle of the 3rd century bce and that the rest of the Old Testament was translated in the 2nd century bce."

Alexandria, Egypt

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

...
"The basis of Jewish-Hellenistic literature was the Septuagint"
You really are making this way too easy.
I presume you know who the Hellenists were and why they were literally at war with the Orthodox.
Hellenists...Self-hating Jews.

 

[Indeependent]

So, if it wasn't Jews that worked on the Septuagint, who did?

From the Jewish Encyclopedia:

jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/3269-bible-translations
"
"The Septuagint.
The oldest and most important of all the versions made by Jews is that called "The Septuagint" ("Interpretatio septuaginta virorum" or "seniorum"). It is a monument of the Greek spoken by the large and important Jewish community of Alexandria; not of classic Greek, nor even of the Hellenistic style affected by Alexandrian writers.

Septuagint | Greek, Hebrew & Aramaic Sources

Septuagint, the earliest extant Greek translation of the Old Testament from the original Hebrew. The Septuagint was presumably made for the Jewish community in Egypt when Greek was the common language throughout the region. Analysis of the language has established that the Torah, or Pentateuch (the

www.britannica.com

"Septuagint, abbreviation LXX, the earliest extant Greek translation of the Old Testament from the original Hebrew. The Septuagint was presumably made for the Jewish community in Egypt when Greek was the common language throughout the region. Analysis of the language has established that the Torah, or Pentateuch (the first five books of the Old Testament), was translated near the middle of the 3rd century bce and that the rest of the Old Testament was translated in the 2nd century bce."

Do you even read what I post?
The Torah Scholars were Jews!
Did you think by Torah Scholars I was referring to Chris Cuomo or some other Cable Anchor?

 

[Newtonian]

The Septuagint of the 3rd to 2nd century BCE for Genesis 11:1

Γένεσις (Genesis) 11 :: Septuagint (LXX)

Γένεσις (Genesis) 11 - καὶ ἦν πᾶσα ἡ γῆ χεῖλος ἕν καὶ φωνὴ μία πᾶσιν

www.blueletterbible.org

καὶ ἦν πᾶσα ἡ γῆ χεῗλος ἕν καὶ φωνὴ μία πᾶσιν

Greek χεῗλος cheilos = language.

Greek φωνὴ phone = speech (words)

Septuagint Genesis, Ch. 11 - Part 1

www.ellopos.net

ΚΑΙ ἦν πᾶσα ἡ γῆ χεῖλος ἕν, καὶ φωνὴ μία πᾶσι.
AND all the earth was one lip, and there was one language to all.

Tanach: Genesis (Bereshit): Genesis (Bereshit) Chapter 11

Tanach, full text etext at sacred-texts.com

sacred-texts.com

[Hebrew Tanach]
‎1 ‏וַֽיְהִ֥י כָל־הָאָ֖רֶץ שָׂפָ֣ה אֶחָ֑ת וּדְבָרִ֖ים אֲחָדִֽים׃
1 wayəhî ḵāl-hā’āreṣ śāfâ ’eḥāṯ ûḏəḇārîm ’ăḥāḏîm:

Septuagint: Genesis: Genesis Chapter 11

Septuagint, full text etext at sacred-texts.com

sacred-texts.com

[Greek LXX}
καὶ ἦν πᾶσα ἡ γῆ χεῖλος ἕν καὶ φωνὴ μία πᾶσιν

OK - I gave you multiple sources and links from scholarly sources including Jewish which all agree.

I am still waiting for a reference or link for your conclusion that the Hebrew word safa means intention rather than language/lip. I will stop my research [independent] until you provide references or links for us to examine.

Later I will post scientific evidence that Genesis 11:1-9 is accurate.

For now, please consider one of our articles on that subject - here is a link to it:

Did Our Languages Come From the “Tower of Babel”? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Are you aware of the origin of the Septuagint?
That’s presuming you’ve ever read the Midrash.

Yes, I was and am aware of the origin of the Septuagint. LXX at Genesis 11:1 confirms the definitions of the Hebrew words.

 

[GreatestIam]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

For all I know, you are in one of the Jews for Jesus sects.

You point to artistic liberty in knowing that, of course A & E had a free choice. If the story teller had not given them that, then the rest of the O.T. could not have been written s the story would have stalled in Gen 2.

The point of having a free will is to exercise it to do good. Back to the story line and ignoring artistic liberty, A & E had no knowledge of anything subject to the adjectives of good and evil, and thus could not know if god or the talking serpent were good or evil. They chose, via the artistic liberty provided, to choose to know what was good and evil via the educated choice that knowledge of good and evil gave them.

Artistic freedom wise, they chose to have knowledge and not be blind to all things, as all things are subject to good or evil, instead of the tree of life. They knew, think artistic liberty here again, that eternal life while being as bright as bricks with their moral eyes closed was not worth living. That is why they chose education over life.

"try explaining on your own using logic."

That is my logical rendering.

Note that it follows the original Jewish line of Eden being where man showed his Original Virtue, as Jews dubbed it, and not the more stupid Original Sin concept in Christianity that does not exist in Jewry.

Break my logic trial if you can. It will make me brighter if you can, and that is why I bother posting.

Being right give me nothing.

Regards
DL

 

[Newtonian]

So, if it wasn't Jews that worked on the Septuagint, who did?

From the Jewish Encyclopedia:

jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/3269-bible-translations
"
"The Septuagint.
The oldest and most important of all the versions made by Jews is that called "The Septuagint" ("Interpretatio septuaginta virorum" or "seniorum"). It is a monument of the Greek spoken by the large and important Jewish community of Alexandria; not of classic Greek, nor even of the Hellenistic style affected by Alexandrian writers.

Septuagint | Greek, Hebrew & Aramaic Sources

Septuagint, the earliest extant Greek translation of the Old Testament from the original Hebrew. The Septuagint was presumably made for the Jewish community in Egypt when Greek was the common language throughout the region. Analysis of the language has established that the Torah, or Pentateuch (the

www.britannica.com

"Septuagint, abbreviation LXX, the earliest extant Greek translation of the Old Testament from the original Hebrew. The Septuagint was presumably made for the Jewish community in Egypt when Greek was the common language throughout the region. Analysis of the language has established that the Torah, or Pentateuch (the first five books of the Old Testament), was translated near the middle of the 3rd century bce and that the rest of the Old Testament was translated in the 2nd century bce."

Alexandria, Egypt

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

...
"The basis of Jewish-Hellenistic literature was the Septuagint"
You really are making this way too easy.
I presume you know who the Hellenists were and why they were literally at war with the Orthodox.
Hellenists...Self-hating Jews.
[/QU OTE]

Al seriousness aside:

Hellenists - those who were deceived like Helen in the movie "The day the Earth stood still" in that Helen thought that since earth is nearing the tipping point, earth was going to be saved for man rather than the truth: earth will be saved from man.

Seriously I was referring to the change in language of the Jews so that most spoke and read Greek.

 

[Newtonian]

Be

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

For all I know, you are in one of the Jews for Jesus sects.

You point to artistic liberty in knowing that, of course A & E had a free choice. If the story teller had not given them that, then the rest of the O.T. could not have been written s the story would have stalled in Gen 2.

The point of having a free will is to exercise it to do good. Back to the story line and ignoring artistic liberty, A & E had no knowledge of anything subject to the adjectives of good and evil, and thus could not know if god or the talking serpent were good or evil. They chose, via the artistic liberty provided, to choose to know what was good and evil via the educated choice that knowledge of good and evil gave them.

Artistic freedom wise, they chose to have knowledge and not be blind to all things, as all things are subject to good or evil, instead of the tree of life. They knew, think artistic liberty here again, that eternal life while being as bright as bricks with their moral eyes closed was not worth living. That is why they chose education over life.

"try explaining on your own using logic."

That is my logical rendering.

Note that it follows the original Jewish line of Eden being where man showed his Original Virtue, as Jews dubbed it, and not the more stupid Original Sin concept in Christianity that does not exist in Jewry.

Break my logic trial if you can. It will make me brighter if you can, and that is why I bother posting.

Being right give me nothing.

Regards
DL

Being right gives you nothing?

right is not right if left is right. Right may be the only way left to go, assuming right is left!

Seriously, what was the first sin? See Ezekiel 28:16 "began to sin."

 

[Indeependent]

The Septuagint of the 3rd to 2nd century BCE for Genesis 11:1

Γένεσις (Genesis) 11 :: Septuagint (LXX)

Γένεσις (Genesis) 11 - καὶ ἦν πᾶσα ἡ γῆ χεῖλος ἕν καὶ φωνὴ μία πᾶσιν

www.blueletterbible.org

καὶ ἦν πᾶσα ἡ γῆ χεῗλος ἕν καὶ φωνὴ μία πᾶσιν

Greek χεῗλος cheilos = language.

Greek φωνὴ phone = speech (words)

Septuagint Genesis, Ch. 11 - Part 1

www.ellopos.net

ΚΑΙ ἦν πᾶσα ἡ γῆ χεῖλος ἕν, καὶ φωνὴ μία πᾶσι.
AND all the earth was one lip, and there was one language to all.

Tanach: Genesis (Bereshit): Genesis (Bereshit) Chapter 11

Tanach, full text etext at sacred-texts.com

sacred-texts.com

[Hebrew Tanach]
‎1 ‏וַֽיְהִ֥י כָל־הָאָ֖רֶץ שָׂפָ֣ה אֶחָ֑ת וּדְבָרִ֖ים אֲחָדִֽים׃
1 wayəhî ḵāl-hā’āreṣ śāfâ ’eḥāṯ ûḏəḇārîm ’ăḥāḏîm:

Septuagint: Genesis: Genesis Chapter 11

Septuagint, full text etext at sacred-texts.com

sacred-texts.com

[Greek LXX}
καὶ ἦν πᾶσα ἡ γῆ χεῖλος ἕν καὶ φωνὴ μία πᾶσιν

OK - I gave you multiple sources and links from scholarly sources including Jewish which all agree.

I am still waiting for a reference or link for your conclusion that the Hebrew word safa means intention rather than language/lip. I will stop my research [independent] until you provide references or links for us to examine.

Later I will post scientific evidence that Genesis 11:1-9 is accurate.

For now, please consider one of our articles on that subject - here is a link to it:

Did Our Languages Come From the “Tower of Babel”? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Are you aware of the origin of the Septuagint?
That’s presuming you’ve ever read the Midrash.

Yes, I was and am aware of the origin of the Septuagint. LXX at Genesis 11:1 confirms the definitions of the Hebrew words.

But you tried to use it anyway.

 

[GreatestIam]

spirit, soul and body.

Spirit is life, the body is our form.

Describe what you mean by soul. Not woo I hope. If you say you have a soul, you should know what it is, otherwise it is just a hunch on your part.

I think it falls into the realm of the unknowable god concept, unless you have suffered your apotheosis like the very few of us have.

Regards
DL

I can't give you an answer about a soul. I don't know, really.

The conception of soul can be easily explained based on dualistic worldview. And there was the time when I was leaning towards it. But now not that much.

Do you mind if I asked what changed?

One of the reason is because I couldn't find an appropriate answer to me about the question I proposed above to another poster. It is possible to assume that a human being has two natures, but how do the two natures manifest themselves in other parts of material world?

The other reason is that some time ago I was interested in Zoroastrianism. I still like their philosophy, though. But I was disappointed by their primitivism as a whole. Btw, Zoroastrianism despite its dualism is on the opposite scale of Gnosticism. For them, the material world is the best creation which was partially spoiled by the evil force.

You have been reading what the inquisitors lied about us to justify their murders of us.

They gave the mythical view that we used against Christians. Not our real view. Please give our real view a look to see how we love matter nand the world that nature has provided.

I have corrected ding a few times on this and he still spreads the lie.

---------

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religions originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.

1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

-----------

The Gnostic Christian reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.

[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL

Well, it is not only about the incquision. Modern authors also write about anti-material views of Gnostics.

What is the main book of the teaching you follow?

The Gnostic gospels and the knowledge that our myths are not to be read literally.

Let me give you some information and a mental challenge based on logic, reason and science.

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religions originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.

1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

-----------

The Gnostic Christian reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.

[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL

I don't consider Christianity to be a reasonable teaching.

Who is Jesus Christ? As I can understand you don't recognise any of the canonical gospels?

Nice to hear. Only the unenlightened will see Christianity as reasonable teachings.

Jesus, to a Gnostic Christian, is more like what Joseph Campbell dubbed a Hero of 1,000 faces.

We see more than one Jesus in scriptures. One is a Roman construct, given that Constantine wrote the apostles creed and forced it down his new church acquisition. The other Jesus which was almost lost to Christianity, is the more mystical esoteric seeker that he is and wants us to be.

I wrote this next to show the Jesus I like, and I will give you one last link at the bottom to show some of the history of how we thought of Jesus in the distant past. Apologies for trying to take more time that I likely deserve.

-------------
Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.


Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.


The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.

----------



Regards
DL

 

[Indeependent]

Be

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

For all I know, you are in one of the Jews for Jesus sects.

You point to artistic liberty in knowing that, of course A & E had a free choice. If the story teller had not given them that, then the rest of the O.T. could not have been written s the story would have stalled in Gen 2.

The point of having a free will is to exercise it to do good. Back to the story line and ignoring artistic liberty, A & E had no knowledge of anything subject to the adjectives of good and evil, and thus could not know if god or the talking serpent were good or evil. They chose, via the artistic liberty provided, to choose to know what was good and evil via the educated choice that knowledge of good and evil gave them.

Artistic freedom wise, they chose to have knowledge and not be blind to all things, as all things are subject to good or evil, instead of the tree of life. They knew, think artistic liberty here again, that eternal life while being as bright as bricks with their moral eyes closed was not worth living. That is why they chose education over life.

"try explaining on your own using logic."

That is my logical rendering.

Note that it follows the original Jewish line of Eden being where man showed his Original Virtue, as Jews dubbed it, and not the more stupid Original Sin concept in Christianity that does not exist in Jewry.

Break my logic trial if you can. It will make me brighter if you can, and that is why I bother posting.

Being right give me nothing.

Regards
DL

Being right gives you nothing?

right is not right if left is right. Right may be the only way left to go, assuming right is left!

Seriously, what was the first sin? See Ezekiel 28:16 "began to sin."

Define "Sin"?
Transgression by error?
Transgression by passion?
Transgression in God's face?

The first Transgression was when one of the 2 great lights decided, or was forced, to become a smaller light.
The next was when God commanded the earth to produce Fruit Trees and the earth produced Trees bearing fuit.
The next?

 

[GreatestIam]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What verse indicates humans have no free will?
Please don't post a video; I want the verse.
You do realize that Avraham, Sara, Yitzchak, Rivka, Yaakov, Rachael and Leah had different personalities and different opinions.

All you have to know that is when Pharaoh's soft heart, that was to let the people go, was hardened against them.

I have a link that is worth the listen, but as requested.
Why does god harden hearts against his own wish to be believed to be god?

In 2 Corinthians 3;14 - 15 God hardens Jewish hearts against their believing in Jesus as their messiah.

John 12;39-40 says about the same.

The same applies to Romans 11;25, 2 Corinthians 4;3-4,

Regards
DL

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What verse indicates humans have no free will?
Please don't post a video; I want the verse.
You do realize that Avraham, Sara, Yitzchak, Rivka, Yaakov, Rachael and Leah had different personalities and different opinions.

All you have to know that is when Pharaoh's soft heart, that was to let the people go, was hardened against them.

I have a link that is worth the listen, but as requested.
Why does god harden hearts against his own wish to be believed to be god?

In 2 Corinthians 3;14 - 15 God hardens Jewish hearts against their believing in Jesus as their messiah.

John 12;39-40 says about the same.

The same applies to Romans 11;25, 2 Corinthians 4;3-4,

Regards
DL

Everything in the NT was already stated in TJS.
God hardening Pharoah's heart did not take away his free will.
If God wanted to take away Pharoah's b'chirah, God would have put that fact in the Torah.
How many people have been disgusted by doing something they really didn't want do.

 

[GreatestIam]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Yes, Adam and Eve had a choice to eat of the forbidden fruit or not to eat.

Also, if Jehovah knew she would eat of the fruit - the test of obedience would have been a sham.

That Jehovah did not know the wicked outcome is shown by His being hurt at heart when the wickedness had grown intolerably worse shortly before the flood - note:

Genesis 6:6
And Jehovah felt regrets+ that he had made men in the earth, and he felt hurt at his heart.+

Jehovah sounds quote satanic.

He regretted creating us in his incompetent way, but not for using genocide.

That shows his satanic nature. He does not have the good moral sense to repent for his sins and crimes against humanity.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

God created the devil

No, He did not. He created Lucifer, and like all HUMANS God allowed the angels to CHOOSE.

Perhaps you lie because you have not read your bible.

I will know if you are knowingly lying ater your read and reply to this post.

I put this above to another poster.

All you have to know that is when Pharaoh's soft heart, that was to let the people go, was hardened against them.

I have a link that is worth the listen, but as requested.
Why does god harden hearts against his own wish to be believed to be god?

In 2 Corinthians 3;14 - 15 God hardens Jewish hearts against their believing in Jesus as their messiah.

John 12;39-40 says about the same.

The same applies to Romans 11;25, 2 Corinthians 4;3-4,

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

Psychotic murderer doubled with Oedipus complex?

And then the doctrine of spilling the blood of a Jew
as the ultimate way to forgiveness?

Historically that explains much, especially last century.

The Gospel According to John, verse by verse, is by far the worst considering the worthlessness of human life.
Basically, almost everybody will burn in hell despite their deeds.
Constantine must have loved this Gospel.

Not true. Eternal torment in Hell Fire is a false doctrine - a God of love would never do that.

Are you saying that there is a heaven but no hell for us?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What scriptures and verse are You relying on?

Torah says: "This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;"

- Devarim 30:19​

I gave the only quote I needed in the O.P.

As a Jew, if I read you right, I am surprised that you would be a literalist given what your wiser than Christian ancients thought. Heel, Christianity even took the androgyny out of Yahweh when they usurped him from Jewry and reversed the moral of the story of Eden from your Original Virtue to their silly Original Sin view.

When did you become a literalist? Rabbi Hillel would be shocked and disappointed in you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

So when replying to a Jew with "scriptures say", what point is there to quote from NT?

Literalist or not, it has nothing to do with the question at hand.
If you can't prove it from the text then its simply irrelevant.

Let's look at it from another angle - when G-d commands Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, how could she do otherwise if there wasn't freedom of choice?

Don't send me to videos,
try explaining on your own using logic.

Oh NO!
He posted NT bullshit to prove a Torah verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, do You know,
is it personal interpretation of that individual,
or does the NT actually preach humanity has no free will?

The NT reiterates ad nauseum that human activity is worthless and humans reply on Grace alone.
That's how Paul eliminated the Commandments.
The problem is that The Gospel According to Mark has one chapter that is filled with negative Commandments.
Let's put it this way...the NT, when read verse by verse, can cause a normal being to become a psychotic murderer.

That is amusing. So those hundreds of millions, if not billions over the course of thousands of years, that all read the NT verse by verse, and did not become psychotic murderers.... how do you explain that?

They are waiting for the right time to strike and show their true colors.

Luke 19:27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What verse indicates humans have no free will?
Please don't post a video; I want the verse.
You do realize that Avraham, Sara, Yitzchak, Rivka, Yaakov, Rachael and Leah had different personalities and different opinions.

All you have to know that is when Pharaoh's soft heart, that was to let the people go, was hardened against them.

I have a link that is worth the listen, but as requested.
Why does god harden hearts against his own wish to be believed to be god?

In 2 Corinthians 3;14 - 15 God hardens Jewish hearts against their believing in Jesus as their messiah.

John 12;39-40 says about the same.

The same applies to Romans 11;25, 2 Corinthians 4;3-4,

Regards
DL

Everything in the NT was already stated in TJS.
God hardening Pharoah's heart did not take away his free will.
If God wanted to take away Pharoah's b'chirah, God would have put that fact in the Torah.
How many people have been disgusted by doing something they really didn't want do.

You seem to be reading your book of myths literally, and quite foolishly according to the Jewish intelligentsia.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What verse indicates humans have no free will?
Please don't post a video; I want the verse.
You do realize that Avraham, Sara, Yitzchak, Rivka, Yaakov, Rachael and Leah had different personalities and different opinions.

All you have to know that is when Pharaoh's soft heart, that was to let the people go, was hardened against them.

I have a link that is worth the listen, but as requested.
Why does god harden hearts against his own wish to be believed to be god?

In 2 Corinthians 3;14 - 15 God hardens Jewish hearts against their believing in Jesus as their messiah.

John 12;39-40 says about the same.

The same applies to Romans 11;25, 2 Corinthians 4;3-4,

Regards
DL

Everything in the NT was already stated in TJS.
God hardening Pharoah's heart did not take away his free will.
If God wanted to take away Pharoah's b'chirah, God would have put that fact in the Torah.
How many people have been disgusted by doing something they really didn't want do.

You seem to be reading your book of myths literally, and quite foolishly according to the Jewish intelligentsia.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

Is that why there are over 3,000 commentaries written about this verse alone?
To harden someone's heart makes it more difficult, but not impossible, to do what one finds repugnant.
Of course the main issue is that Pharoah, despite all the plauges, still lived and slept peacefully in his palace.
Even with Pharoah's heart being hardened by God Himself, when Pharoah was struck personally by the Death of the First Born, he chased the Children of Israel out of Egypt.
You know why?
Because Pharoah's wife had sex with many men and many of her children were the First Born of her adulterous lovers.
This hit Pharoah personally.
And please stop using the NT; we both know it's a farce.

 

[Indeependent]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What verse indicates humans have no free will?
Please don't post a video; I want the verse.
You do realize that Avraham, Sara, Yitzchak, Rivka, Yaakov, Rachael and Leah had different personalities and different opinions.

All you have to know that is when Pharaoh's soft heart, that was to let the people go, was hardened against them.

I have a link that is worth the listen, but as requested.
Why does god harden hearts against his own wish to be believed to be god?

In 2 Corinthians 3;14 - 15 God hardens Jewish hearts against their believing in Jesus as their messiah.

John 12;39-40 says about the same.

The same applies to Romans 11;25, 2 Corinthians 4;3-4,

Regards
DL

Everything in the NT was already stated in TJS.
God hardening Pharoah's heart did not take away his free will.
If God wanted to take away Pharoah's b'chirah, God would have put that fact in the Torah.
How many people have been disgusted by doing something they really didn't want do.

You seem to be reading your book of myths literally, and quite foolishly according to the Jewish intelligentsia.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

Cool...Now read the rest of the Talmud page where Moyer's took that from...there's a whole story behind it where that person became a great Torah Scholar.
But I bet you won't track that down and read how out of context and wrong Moyer's is.
In fact, I'm doing the Daf Yomi and I did that page about a month ago.
Moyer's...what a moron.

 

[GreatestIam]

God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

G-d hates evil,
He only created it to give humanity freedom of choice.

Scriptures say that god does not allow freedom of choice.

This link imbedded below shows that clearly.
------------------
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Strange that you think god would create a plan where he was forced to do something he did not like, especially given that quite that you have torn out of your bible, or choose to ignore.

Will you also ignore the many quotes in that link?

If so, why call yourself a Christian?

Regards
DL

What verse indicates humans have no free will?
Please don't post a video; I want the verse.
You do realize that Avraham, Sara, Yitzchak, Rivka, Yaakov, Rachael and Leah had different personalities and different opinions.

All you have to know that is when Pharaoh's soft heart, that was to let the people go, was hardened against them.

I have a link that is worth the listen, but as requested.
Why does god harden hearts against his own wish to be believed to be god?

In 2 Corinthians 3;14 - 15 God hardens Jewish hearts against their believing in Jesus as their messiah.

John 12;39-40 says about the same.

The same applies to Romans 11;25, 2 Corinthians 4;3-4,

Regards
DL

Everything in the NT was already stated in TJS.
God hardening Pharoah's heart did not take away his free will.
If God wanted to take away Pharoah's b'chirah, God would have put that fact in the Torah.
How many people have been disgusted by doing something they really didn't want do.

You seem to be reading your book of myths literally, and quite foolishly according to the Jewish intelligentsia.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

Is that why there are over 3,000 commentaries written about this verse alone?
To harden someone's heart makes it more difficult, but not impossible, to do what one finds repugnant.
Of course the main issue is that Pharoah, despite all the plauges, still lived and slept peacefully in his palace.
Even with Pharoah's heart being hardened by God Himself, when Pharoah was struck personally by the Death of the First Born, he chased the Children of Israel out of Egypt.
You know why?
Because Pharoah's wife had sex with many men and many of her children were the First Born of her adulterous lovers.
This hit Pharoah personally.
And please stop using the NT; we both know it's a farce.

I do not really care what some think of the depth of god's hardening of hearts.
We can never know how deep it goes, but we can know that any at all interferes with choices. If it did not, then god is a fool for not doing his will via doing it.

I focus more on Yahweh, the unjust prick, killing the children for what their parents did.

Thr N.T. is what it is. If you cannot see it's value as compliment to the O.T., that is your problem.
It is there, IMO, to contrast the really big prick, Yahweh, with the kinder gentler Jesus.

Call the N.T. Yin to go with the O.T. Yang.

You do not seem to know that the bible, as well as my own myths were just written for talking points before Christianity went stupid and started to read their myths literally.

Now you know so smarten up.

Regards
DL