God: Loved, or Feared?

[GISMYS]

The true God is a jealous GOD, and he will judge. He has no love for the wicked, and the left shall pay for their foul heresy.

I don't know. I mean "The Emperor protects!" is a pretty good slogan, but then again "Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!" is pretty much the most bad ass battle cry out there.

GOD is not willing that any perish,Jesus gave His life on that Roman cross to keep you out of hell, what more dare little evil man ask of GOD??????????????

 

[PoliticalChic]

The following, a pretty strong take on the above data, suggests that offering salvation for repentance, is actually a negative.


9. " If you promulgate the notion that people are born bad, and cannot help but to sin, but will still gain entrance into paradise as long as they "repent"-- they are more likely to sin, repent, sin, repent--and repeat when necessary. Pelagius was wise, and realized that this belief would lead to "moral laxity"--

10. The ancient Christian philosopher Pelagius also pointed this out long ago. That is, the Christian version of salvation promoted by Augustine, leads to "moral laxity" as believers are "saved" regardless of their actions--no consequences in relation to their salvation."
Debunking Christianity: Survey - Why Do Atheists Care Whether Christians Believe in Christianity or Not?

I have a high regard for Dennis Prager’s points of view on many or most issues. He does quite well in this one, too. My only objection is to how he treated points 9. & 10. “Gaining entrance into heaven” does not mean or imply that the moment one dies Heaven welcomes.

And I really doubt Augustine could ever be paraphrased the way Prager did here, i.e. “believers are ‘saved’ regardless of their actions--no consequences in relation to their salvation." Where in the world did that come from? That is totally “un-Catholic.”

Briefly stated: Most Christians are totally oblivious to the reality and magnitude of purgatory. Most people cannot stand the thought of being subjected to real torture or loneliness or pains of any kind for a day or a week. And yet, they do not consider that the punishment for our sins [even those we repent of I might add!] could very easily add up to decades or centuries of unimaginable pain and loneliness in purgatory.

As the Bible says - - God is not one to be mocked. Augustine is not one to mock God either. Prager makes good points, but ends it kind of poorly. Of course he is Jewish and not Christian so this purgatory matter is probably not well defined or considered on his part.

9 and 10 are not from Prager, but from the link I've provided.
I wanted to give another view.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The God of the Bible is a wife-beater. He's all sunshine and love when you're doing what He wants, but step out of line and he'll fuck you up good. It's for your own good you see. He doesn't want to give us a black eye or break our arm or push us down the stairs for eternity, but He knows what's best for us.

Now, I'm sure God doesn't want to come down hard on us, but hey, Ike had to keep Tina in line to get Tina to stardom. So we should just suck it up the next time God is using a belt on us and saying, "I love you so much, baby! Why do you make me beat you?"

A truly disgusting post....
....but I'm certain that your secular government school mentors would give you the pat on the head you desire, and an A+.


You've been indoctrinated well.

 

[PoliticalChic]

These are the commands, decrees and laws the Lord your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess, 2 so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the Lord your God as long as you live by keeping all his decrees and commands that I give you, and so that you may enjoy long life.
- Deuteronomy 6

"We love our parents as well as fear them in much the same way."



...but, did you find it in the Bible that we are ordered to love our parents?

Well, there is that whole commandment about honoring one's mother and father which could be construed as an order to love as well as obey.

"... which could be construed ..."

Only by government school grads who never learned to use words with precision.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Good points to consider. One religious person wrote about biblical literalism: "Where is there a writing intended to be taken in all its parts literally? Such a writing would be insipid and hence lack natural appeal. To expect a believer in the Bible to strike an attitude of this kind and believe all that is written to be a literal rendition is a stupid thought. No person with the natural use of his faculties looks upon the Bible in such a light." That is interesting.

Our faculties tell us to both fear and love God.

 

[Steven_R]

"We love our parents as well as fear them in much the same way."



...but, did you find it in the Bible that we are ordered to love our parents?

Well, there is that whole commandment about honoring one's mother and father which could be construed as an order to love as well as obey.

"... which could be construed ..."

Only by government school grads who never learned to use words with precision.

Then we should all learn ancient Hebrew so we can read the original source material in the original language so there is no equivocation, right?

You did learn Hebrew and Greek so you could read the Bible properly, didn't you?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Well, there is that whole commandment about honoring one's mother and father which could be construed as an order to love as well as obey.

"... which could be construed ..."

Only by government school grads who never learned to use words with precision.

Then we should all learn ancient Hebrew so we can read the original source material in the original language so there is no equivocation, right?

You did learn Hebrew and Greek so you could read the Bible properly, didn't you?

How about you learn English first.

Begin with the meaning of 'honor,' and of 'love.' See if they are synonyms.

 

[Montrovant]

"2. If your aim is to produce moral behavior — and that should be the primary aim of every religion — “God is love” is no more helpful than “Dad is love” is to producing a good son.
Morally speaking, “God will judge you” is a far superior message. "

I thought the aim of religion was to bring people to the truth, but I was right in thinking that its really about social control.

^^^^ this.

I thought religions were supposed to be about teaching the truth first. The truth about the god(s) that created the universe and mankind, the truth about what, if anything, happens after death, etc. While there are usually rules and guidelines involved, teaching moral behavior would seem to be a secondary goal.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"2. If your aim is to produce moral behavior — and that should be the primary aim of every religion — “God is love” is no more helpful than “Dad is love” is to producing a good son.
Morally speaking, “God will judge you” is a far superior message. "

I thought the aim of religion was to bring people to the truth, but I was right in thinking that its really about social control.

^^^^ this.

I thought religions were supposed to be about teaching the truth first. The truth about the god(s) that created the universe and mankind, the truth about what, if anything, happens after death, etc. While there are usually rules and guidelines involved, teaching moral behavior would seem to be a secondary goal.

Could be you're both wrong.

 

[Montrovant]

"2. If your aim is to produce moral behavior — and that should be the primary aim of every religion — “God is love” is no more helpful than “Dad is love” is to producing a good son.
Morally speaking, “God will judge you” is a far superior message. "

I thought the aim of religion was to bring people to the truth, but I was right in thinking that its really about social control.

^^^^ this.

I thought religions were supposed to be about teaching the truth first. The truth about the god(s) that created the universe and mankind, the truth about what, if anything, happens after death, etc. While there are usually rules and guidelines involved, teaching moral behavior would seem to be a secondary goal.

Could be you're both wrong.

Well thanks for the enlightening response.

 

[AVG-JOE]

God: Loved, or Feared?

C. Imaginary.​

And therefore, neither.

Just like, Tinkerbell.
Loved or Feared?

Or my personal favorite - The Amazing Spiderman.

Spidey is one USEFUL imaginary friend, as imaginary friends go.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

How is God viewed? Is it 'God is love,' or is God a judge who will punish bad behavior?
And what is the effect of that view?





1." For the past two generations, God has rarely been depicted as judging and punishing. Instead all we have heard is the phrase, “God Is Love,” which, when offered as the one description of God, is morally meaningless — and even morally dangerous.





2. If your aim is to produce moral behavior — and that should be the primary aim of every religion — “God is love” is no more helpful than “Dad is love” is to producing a good son.
Morally speaking, “God will judge you” is a far superior message.

3. Because we live in the most secular age in recorded history, our age lacks any concept of an afterlife reward and punishment. Making things worse, it is also a wisdom-challenged age that believes people are basically good — and therefore don’t need threats of punishment. Worst of all, this thinking has spread to mainstream Judaism and Christianity, most of whose clergy find threats of hell intellectually primitive and morally useless.

a. Last week, Pope Francis warned Italy’s Mafia leaders that if they continue their evil ways, they will go to hell."
Pope Francis threatens hell -- Hooray!





4. Radio host Dennis Prager told of this question asked of a teenage girl: 'Why don't you use drugs?' Her answer, telling and consistent with the above, was 'My mother would kill me!"
Not "because my mother loves me."





Actually, the University of Oregon had an enlightening answer to the question.


5. "....criminal activity is lower in societies where people's religious beliefs contain a strong punitive component than in places where religious beliefs are more benevolent.... where many more people believe in heaven than in hell, for example, is likely to have a much higher crime rate than one where these beliefs are about equal. The finding surfaced from a comprehensive analysis of 26 years of data involving 143,197 people in 67 countries.

a. .... a nation's rate of belief in hell predicts lower crime rates, but the nation's rate of belief in heaven predicts higher crime rates, and these are strong effects," ... it's possible that people who don't believe in the possibility of punishment in the afterlife feel like they can get away with unethical behavior.

b. .... in the International Journal for the Psychology of Religion, Shariff reported that undergraduate students were more likely to cheat when they believe in a forgiving God than a punishing God.




6. .... a growing body of evidence that supernatural punishment had emerged as a very effective cultural innovation to get people to act more ethically with each other.

7. In 2003, he said, Harvard University researchers ... found that gross domestic product was higher in developed countries when people believed in hell more than they did in heaven.

8. "This research provides new insights into the potential influences of cultural and religious beliefs on key outcomes at a societal level,"
Belief in hell, according to international data, is associated with reduced crime | Media Relations






The following, a pretty strong take on the above data, suggests that offering salvation for repentance, is actually a negative.


9. " If you promulgate the notion that people are born bad, and cannot help but to sin, but will still gain entrance into paradise as long as they "repent"-- they are more likely to sin, repent, sin, repent--and repeat when necessary. Pelagius was wise, and realized that this belief would lead to "moral laxity"--

10. The ancient Christian philosopher Pelagius also pointed this out long ago. That is, the Christian version of salvation promoted by Augustine, leads to "moral laxity" as believers are "saved" regardless of their actions--no consequences in relation to their salvation."
Debunking Christianity: Survey - Why Do Atheists Care Whether Christians Believe in Christianity or Not?

I wanted to comment on this thread yesterday [MENTION=12394]PoliticalChic[/MENTION]

The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Which is why Communists do not fear God. Instead they have made themselves the enemies of God because they wish to replace him. Or as Marx said, Cast God down from his throne!

While I am reading Pope Francis rebuked the Mafia I see no sign that he has ever rebuked the Communists. Instead he is the darling of the radical left media and no one questions this because he is the pope. Jesus put his trust in no man. Neither will I.

I make no qualms about the fact I do not trust this man. His history is dark and he is a friend to Communists. I believe he is a Communist too. He has one of the darkest countenances I have ever seen on an individual. Darker than Obama's and that is saying something significant.

Others who knew him before he was pope apparently think so too. This is a story about his early days.

Pope Francis Has Links To 'Dirty War' - Business Insider


were raped or killed.

Argentine journalist Horacio Verbitsky chronicled how the Church and Bergoglio were involved in this dark era. As described by Hugh O'Shaughnessy of The Guardian in 2011:

[Verbitsky] recounts how the Argentine navy with the connivance of Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, now the Jesuit archbishop of Buenos Aires, hid from a visiting delegation of the Inter-American Human Rights Commission the dictatorship's political prisoners. Bergoglio was hiding them in nothing less than his holiday home in an island called El Silencio in the River Plate. The most shaming thing for the church is that in such circumstances Bergoglio's name was allowed to go forward in the ballot to chose the successor of John Paul II. What scandal would not have ensued if the first pope ever to be elected from the continent of America had been revealed as an accessory to murder and false imprisonment.

Bergoglio contended to writer Sergio Rubin that he hid these people to keep them from the violent military junta, not the Human Rights Commission — even as his Jesuit order and Church leaders publicly endorsed the dictatorship.

He later said the endorsement was one of political pragmatism.
____________________

His name should never have been permitted to go forward in the ballot for Pope. Hindsight is 20/20. Time will tell the magnitude of that mistake. He is already trying to force the entire evangelical world to "catholicism" and sent his mouthpiece Tony Palmer to tell false teacher Kenneth Copelands ministry that anyone who is a christian is a Catholic and must return to the Roman Catholic Church. According to the pope the protest is over and there can be no more protestants. He's a man on a mission. Just wait. He's just getting started. So am I.

 

[thebrucebeat]

How is God viewed? Is it 'God is love,' or is God a judge who will punish bad behavior?
And what is the effect of that view?





1." For the past two generations, God has rarely been depicted as judging and punishing. Instead all we have heard is the phrase, “God Is Love,” which, when offered as the one description of God, is morally meaningless — and even morally dangerous.





2. If your aim is to produce moral behavior — and that should be the primary aim of every religion — “God is love” is no more helpful than “Dad is love” is to producing a good son.
Morally speaking, “God will judge you” is a far superior message.

3. Because we live in the most secular age in recorded history, our age lacks any concept of an afterlife reward and punishment. Making things worse, it is also a wisdom-challenged age that believes people are basically good — and therefore don’t need threats of punishment. Worst of all, this thinking has spread to mainstream Judaism and Christianity, most of whose clergy find threats of hell intellectually primitive and morally useless.

a. Last week, Pope Francis warned Italy’s Mafia leaders that if they continue their evil ways, they will go to hell."
Pope Francis threatens hell -- Hooray!





4. Radio host Dennis Prager told of this question asked of a teenage girl: 'Why don't you use drugs?' Her answer, telling and consistent with the above, was 'My mother would kill me!"
Not "because my mother loves me."





Actually, the University of Oregon had an enlightening answer to the question.


5. "....criminal activity is lower in societies where people's religious beliefs contain a strong punitive component than in places where religious beliefs are more benevolent.... where many more people believe in heaven than in hell, for example, is likely to have a much higher crime rate than one where these beliefs are about equal. The finding surfaced from a comprehensive analysis of 26 years of data involving 143,197 people in 67 countries.

a. .... a nation's rate of belief in hell predicts lower crime rates, but the nation's rate of belief in heaven predicts higher crime rates, and these are strong effects," ... it's possible that people who don't believe in the possibility of punishment in the afterlife feel like they can get away with unethical behavior.

b. .... in the International Journal for the Psychology of Religion, Shariff reported that undergraduate students were more likely to cheat when they believe in a forgiving God than a punishing God.




6. .... a growing body of evidence that supernatural punishment had emerged as a very effective cultural innovation to get people to act more ethically with each other.

7. In 2003, he said, Harvard University researchers ... found that gross domestic product was higher in developed countries when people believed in hell more than they did in heaven.

8. "This research provides new insights into the potential influences of cultural and religious beliefs on key outcomes at a societal level,"
Belief in hell, according to international data, is associated with reduced crime | Media Relations






The following, a pretty strong take on the above data, suggests that offering salvation for repentance, is actually a negative.


9. " If you promulgate the notion that people are born bad, and cannot help but to sin, but will still gain entrance into paradise as long as they "repent"-- they are more likely to sin, repent, sin, repent--and repeat when necessary. Pelagius was wise, and realized that this belief would lead to "moral laxity"--

10. The ancient Christian philosopher Pelagius also pointed this out long ago. That is, the Christian version of salvation promoted by Augustine, leads to "moral laxity" as believers are "saved" regardless of their actions--no consequences in relation to their salvation."
Debunking Christianity: Survey - Why Do Atheists Care Whether Christians Believe in Christianity or Not?

I wanted to comment on this thread yesterday [MENTION=40635]Political[/MENTION] Chic

The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Which is why Communists do not fear God. Instead they have made themselves the enemies of God because they wish to replace him. Or as Marx said, Cast God down from his throne!

While I am reading Pope Francis rebuked the Mafia I see no sign that he has ever rebuked the Communists. Instead he is the darling of the radical left media and no one questions this because he is the pope. Jesus put his trust in no man. Neither will I.

I make no qualms about the fact I do not trust this man. His history is dark and he is a friend to Communists. I believe he is a Communist too. He has one of the darkest countenances I have ever seen on an individual. Darker than Obama's and that is saying something significant.

Others who knew him before he was pope apparently think so too. This is a story about his early days.

Pope Francis Has Links To 'Dirty War' - Business Insider

Leaving the Pope aside as a fallible human being, the earliest church was completely dedicated to a socialist lifestyle. All resources, ALL, were pooled and distrubuted as to need. There was no concept of capitalism where each was free to glean as much as they could hoard by their efforts.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The God of the Bible is a wife-beater. He's all sunshine and love when you're doing what He wants, but step out of line and he'll fuck you up good. It's for your own good you see. He doesn't want to give us a black eye or break our arm or push us down the stairs for eternity, but He knows what's best for us.

Now, I'm sure God doesn't want to come down hard on us, but hey, Ike had to keep Tina in line to get Tina to stardom. So we should just suck it up the next time God is using a belt on us and saying, "I love you so much, baby! Why do you make me beat you?"

A truly disgusting post....
....but I'm certain that your secular government school mentors would give you the pat on the head you desire, and an A+.


You've been indoctrinated well.

Actually, its pretty factual.

Every time there's some disaster, the christians tell us how god moves in mysterious ways. The believers tell us god made us in his image but then, he got so pissed, he destroyed us all and saved only the animals.

If the world's "natural" disasters are any evidence, your god doesn't much like his creation.

OTOH, not surprising you would think his post is disgusting. After all, you also posted a whole thread about how you hate the idea of the world living in peace.

You're not a very happy person and want everyone else to be unhappy as well. But hey, that's a good working definition of most rw's.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

How is God viewed? Is it 'God is love,' or is God a judge who will punish bad behavior?
And what is the effect of that view?





1." For the past two generations, God has rarely been depicted as judging and punishing. Instead all we have heard is the phrase, “God Is Love,” which, when offered as the one description of God, is morally meaningless — and even morally dangerous.





2. If your aim is to produce moral behavior — and that should be the primary aim of every religion — “God is love” is no more helpful than “Dad is love” is to producing a good son.
Morally speaking, “God will judge you” is a far superior message.

3. Because we live in the most secular age in recorded history, our age lacks any concept of an afterlife reward and punishment. Making things worse, it is also a wisdom-challenged age that believes people are basically good — and therefore don’t need threats of punishment. Worst of all, this thinking has spread to mainstream Judaism and Christianity, most of whose clergy find threats of hell intellectually primitive and morally useless.

a. Last week, Pope Francis warned Italy’s Mafia leaders that if they continue their evil ways, they will go to hell."
Pope Francis threatens hell -- Hooray!





4. Radio host Dennis Prager told of this question asked of a teenage girl: 'Why don't you use drugs?' Her answer, telling and consistent with the above, was 'My mother would kill me!"
Not "because my mother loves me."





Actually, the University of Oregon had an enlightening answer to the question.


5. "....criminal activity is lower in societies where people's religious beliefs contain a strong punitive component than in places where religious beliefs are more benevolent.... where many more people believe in heaven than in hell, for example, is likely to have a much higher crime rate than one where these beliefs are about equal. The finding surfaced from a comprehensive analysis of 26 years of data involving 143,197 people in 67 countries.

a. .... a nation's rate of belief in hell predicts lower crime rates, but the nation's rate of belief in heaven predicts higher crime rates, and these are strong effects," ... it's possible that people who don't believe in the possibility of punishment in the afterlife feel like they can get away with unethical behavior.

b. .... in the International Journal for the Psychology of Religion, Shariff reported that undergraduate students were more likely to cheat when they believe in a forgiving God than a punishing God.




6. .... a growing body of evidence that supernatural punishment had emerged as a very effective cultural innovation to get people to act more ethically with each other.

7. In 2003, he said, Harvard University researchers ... found that gross domestic product was higher in developed countries when people believed in hell more than they did in heaven.

8. "This research provides new insights into the potential influences of cultural and religious beliefs on key outcomes at a societal level,"
Belief in hell, according to international data, is associated with reduced crime | Media Relations






The following, a pretty strong take on the above data, suggests that offering salvation for repentance, is actually a negative.


9. " If you promulgate the notion that people are born bad, and cannot help but to sin, but will still gain entrance into paradise as long as they "repent"-- they are more likely to sin, repent, sin, repent--and repeat when necessary. Pelagius was wise, and realized that this belief would lead to "moral laxity"--

10. The ancient Christian philosopher Pelagius also pointed this out long ago. That is, the Christian version of salvation promoted by Augustine, leads to "moral laxity" as believers are "saved" regardless of their actions--no consequences in relation to their salvation."
Debunking Christianity: Survey - Why Do Atheists Care Whether Christians Believe in Christianity or Not?

I wanted to comment on this thread yesterday [MENTION=40635]Political[/MENTION] Chic

The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Which is why Communists do not fear God. Instead they have made themselves the enemies of God because they wish to replace him. Or as Marx said, Cast God down from his throne!

While I am reading Pope Francis rebuked the Mafia I see no sign that he has ever rebuked the Communists. Instead he is the darling of the radical left media and no one questions this because he is the pope. Jesus put his trust in no man. Neither will I.

I make no qualms about the fact I do not trust this man. His history is dark and he is a friend to Communists. I believe he is a Communist too. He has one of the darkest countenances I have ever seen on an individual. Darker than Obama's and that is saying something significant.

Others who knew him before he was pope apparently think so too. This is a story about his early days.

Pope Francis Has Links To 'Dirty War' - Business Insider

Leaving the Pope aside as a fallible human being, the earliest church was completely dedicated to a socialist lifestyle. All resources, ALL, were pooled and distrubuted as to need. There was no concept of capitalism where each was free to glean as much as they could hoard by their efforts.

You have a very good grasp on the history of the early church ( Hebrew Church not RCC ) and you are right, Bruce. That is exactly where Communism derived its name. The concept is right there in the book of Acts. The difference being the Apostles who divided the money didn't live like Kings. They didn't own jewel encrusted crowns & treasury storehouses full of gold and priceless art. Paul had one coat. The other side of it is the followers of Christ gave freely - not under compulsion - in the story of Ananais and Saphira Peter made it clear the money / land was theirs - they were free to do what they wanted with it. But trying to deceive the Holy Ghost caused both to fall dead.

Today the ministers have amassed fortunes. As you used to be one you already know this. This is what will lead to the great apostasy - falling away of the church - because men like Kenneth Copeland will not part with their fortunes. Interesting times.

 

[Politico]

God: Loved, or Feared?

Neither.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"... which could be construed ..."

Only by government school grads who never learned to use words with precision.

Then we should all learn ancient Hebrew so we can read the original source material in the original language so there is no equivocation, right?

You did learn Hebrew and Greek so you could read the Bible properly, didn't you?

How about you learn English first.

Begin with the meaning of 'honor,' and of 'love.' See if they are synonyms.

Physician, heal thyself.