GOP may "leverage" debt ceiling against de-funding Obamacare

[bendog]

The only people who can self-finance their healtch are in the top 1%.

 

[Ame®icano]

Republicans Could Use Debt Limit As Leverage On Obamacare, Aide Says


* Tactic would be alternative to government shutdown threat on Obamacare

* Cantor aide says debt limit could be way to try to force action

* Another leadership aide says there are discussions but no decision yet

By Caren Bohan

WASHINGTON, Aug 21 (Reuters) - U.S. Republican lawmakers, who staunchly oppose President Barack Obama's signature healthcare law, are considering using a fall showdown over the country's borrowing limit as leverage to try to delay the law's implementation.



Republicans Could Use Debt Limit As Leverage On Obamacare, Aide Says

Great idea. Why the hell do you think that Obama, congress, the IRS and unions demanded to be exempt from Obamacare? It's because it is too expensive, too intrusive and just plain sucks. It's not good enough for Pelosi and the other idiots who passed it. That means it is not good enough for the rest of us and it needs to be repealed. They pulled a fast one to shove it through by gutting a different bill. The House did not pass this revenue raising bill, as required by the constitution.

Obama is lying out of both sides of his mouth to make it appear that Obamacare is legal. He has to tell the people and congress that it's not a tax because otherwise it would have to pass the House first. He told SCOTUS that is it a tax so they would uphold it because they would have shot it down if it wasn't a tax.

Which is it? Either way, it is not constitutional. You can't say it is simply by having it be a tax only when in the Supreme Court and not a tax where congress is concerned.

If it was a decent plan, congress, the president, the IRS and everyone else would want to be included. Such is not the case. Are you okay with congress saying it's unfair to force them to participate? Why are no liberals able to defend the exemptions?

ACA is not sustainable, should be killed...

On the other hand, part of me wish it doesn't get repealed nor defunded. Win the Senate and make all those who got exemptions to pay full price. Let them pay what the voted for on everyone else.

 

[bendog]

Republicans Could Use Debt Limit As Leverage On Obamacare, Aide Says


* Tactic would be alternative to government shutdown threat on Obamacare

* Cantor aide says debt limit could be way to try to force action

* Another leadership aide says there are discussions but no decision yet

By Caren Bohan

WASHINGTON, Aug 21 (Reuters) - U.S. Republican lawmakers, who staunchly oppose President Barack Obama's signature healthcare law, are considering using a fall showdown over the country's borrowing limit as leverage to try to delay the law's implementation.



Republicans Could Use Debt Limit As Leverage On Obamacare, Aide Says

Great idea. Why the hell do you think that Obama, congress, the IRS and unions demanded to be exempt from Obamacare? It's because it is too expensive, too intrusive and just plain sucks. It's not good enough for Pelosi and the other idiots who passed it. That means it is not good enough for the rest of us and it needs to be repealed. They pulled a fast one to shove it through by gutting a different bill. The House did not pass this revenue raising bill, as required by the constitution.

Obama is lying out of both sides of his mouth to make it appear that Obamacare is legal. He has to tell the people and congress that it's not a tax because otherwise it would have to pass the House first. He told SCOTUS that is it a tax so they would uphold it because they would have shot it down if it wasn't a tax.

Which is it? Either way, it is not constitutional. You can't say it is simply by having it be a tax only when in the Supreme Court and not a tax where congress is concerned.

If it was a decent plan, congress, the president, the IRS and everyone else would want to be included. Such is not the case. Are you okay with congress saying it's unfair to force them to participate? Why are no liberals able to defend the exemptions?

ACA is not sustainable, should be killed...

On the other hand, part of me wish it doesn't get repealed nor defunded. Win the Senate and make all those who got exemptions to pay full price. Let them pay what the voted for on everyone else.

That's the thing. If it's really that bad, the gop should let it take effect because they'll win elections as a consequence. That's why I find their noisesome bs about defunding not being about shutting down govt to be highly suspicious, and think there may be some benefit to Obamacare.

As to unsustainablity, health care is unsustainable without reducing cost increases. Doing nothing is not an option.

 

[dblack]

The only people who can self-finance their healtch are in the top 1%.

Well,*that should tell you the health care market is seriously out of whack, eh? Is there any rational reason something that everyone needs should be out of reach for all but the very rich? That's pathological. Obviously the health care market is seriously imbalanced and there are some obvious reasons. But we're ignoring all that and falling for a corporatist takeover instead. Double down on insanity.

 

[brfrad]

AZMike exemplifies some minor problems in the party. He claims to be conservative but is a mere reactionary and babbles as much as Obama ever did. We the mainstream are telling the reactionaries to go along with the program or start their own party. You can’t have ours, Mike, because we are not going back to the 19th century.

We are not going to argue with you, Mike. All of that is over. End of story.

I guess I want to be a reactionary and go back to the 19th century when the people of this country didn't run to the government because they couldn't find a job. They didn't run to the government because they didn't want to work. They didn't run to the government because they wanted free stuff. In summary, they didn't run to the government to solve their problems unlike what most of the population, including you are doing now. They had very little government involvement. Now, we have countless government jobs.

 

[brfrad]

Great idea. Why the hell do you think that Obama, congress, the IRS and unions demanded to be exempt from Obamacare? It's because it is too expensive, too intrusive and just plain sucks. It's not good enough for Pelosi and the other idiots who passed it. That means it is not good enough for the rest of us and it needs to be repealed. They pulled a fast one to shove it through by gutting a different bill. The House did not pass this revenue raising bill, as required by the constitution.

Obama is lying out of both sides of his mouth to make it appear that Obamacare is legal. He has to tell the people and congress that it's not a tax because otherwise it would have to pass the House first. He told SCOTUS that is it a tax so they would uphold it because they would have shot it down if it wasn't a tax.

Which is it? Either way, it is not constitutional. You can't say it is simply by having it be a tax only when in the Supreme Court and not a tax where congress is concerned.

If it was a decent plan, congress, the president, the IRS and everyone else would want to be included. Such is not the case. Are you okay with congress saying it's unfair to force them to participate? Why are no liberals able to defend the exemptions?

ACA is not sustainable, should be killed...

On the other hand, part of me wish it doesn't get repealed nor defunded. Win the Senate and make all those who got exemptions to pay full price. Let them pay what the voted for on everyone else.

That's the thing. If it's really that bad, the gop should let it take effect because they'll win elections as a consequence. That's why I find their noisesome bs about defunding not being about shutting down govt to be highly suspicious, and think there may be some benefit to Obamacare.

As to unsustainablity, health care is unsustainable without reducing cost increases. Doing nothing is not an option.

I think that is what the GOP should do. However, when the POTUS, allows certain groups to be exempt, (even though it is illegal), it is going to be very difficult to show the true effect on everyone.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Why would that be any more complicated than checking to see if someone has insurance? A: It wouldn't.

I didn't say it would be.

The problem comes when you can't establish someone's identity before its too late and they die. If you are mugged and your wallet is stolen the hospital may gave to take your word on your identity - if you're unconscious they wouldn't even have your word to go on. How does the hospital determine if the unconscious person with no ID wilfully "opted out" and thus - by evolution - deserves to die on the operating room table - or whether the person has been paying insurance premiums - when they can't establish their identity?

Presently it is no problem because hospitals are required by law to at least stabilize you in a life threatening emergency.

The real reason this isn't "practical" (from the statist point of view) is that it leaves people free to decide for themselves how to finance their health care.

When you're unconscious you aren't free to do anything. Decisions will be made on your behalf and if you're in a system where people can "opt out" and the hospitals are consequently free to reject dying people w/o insurance, you'd better hope the hospital decides you have insurance.

 

[JakeStarkey]

AZMike exemplifies some minor problems in the party. He claims to be conservative but is a mere reactionary and babbles as much as Obama ever did. We the mainstream are telling the reactionaries to go along with the program or start their own party. You can’t have ours, Mike, because we are not going back to the 19th century.

We are not going to argue with you, Mike. All of that is over. End of story.

I guess I want to be a reactionary and go back to the 19th century when the people of this country didn't run to the government because they couldn't find a job. They didn't run to the government because they didn't want to work. They didn't run to the government because they wanted free stuff. In summary, they didn't run to the government to solve their problems unlike what most of the population, including you are doing now. They had very little government involvement. Now, we have countless government jobs.

Whatever, Mike, floats your personal boat, but that ship has sank in Modern America.

 

[JakeStarkey]

ACA is not sustainable, should be killed...

On the other hand, part of me wish it doesn't get repealed nor defunded. Win the Senate and make all those who got exemptions to pay full price. Let them pay what the voted for on everyone else.

That's the thing. If it's really that bad, the gop should let it take effect because they'll win elections as a consequence. That's why I find their noisesome bs about defunding not being about shutting down govt to be highly suspicious, and think there may be some benefit to Obamacare.

As to unsustainablity, health care is unsustainable without reducing cost increases. Doing nothing is not an option.

I think that is what the GOP should do. However, when the POTUS, allows certain groups to be exempt, (even though it is illegal), it is going to be very difficult to show the true effect on everyone.

You are bitching about government delaying (not exempting) certain requirements and paper work for Small Business because it was requested to do so by Small Business?

Really?

 

[007]

Leverage means strong arming?

That's how the dems passed the law.

So what's the matter, can't take a dose of your own medicine, dems the only ones allowed to do that?

Go pound sand, your hypocritical whining is pathetic.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Leverage means strong arming?

That's how the dems passed the law.

So what's the matter, can't take a dose of your own medicine, dems the only ones allowed to do that?

Go pound sand, your hypocritical whining is pathetic.

Dems passed the law because they had the votes. It is how we run the country.

 

[brfrad]

That's the thing. If it's really that bad, the gop should let it take effect because they'll win elections as a consequence. That's why I find their noisesome bs about defunding not being about shutting down govt to be highly suspicious, and think there may be some benefit to Obamacare.

As to unsustainablity, health care is unsustainable without reducing cost increases. Doing nothing is not an option.

I think that is what the GOP should do. However, when the POTUS, allows certain groups to be exempt, (even though it is illegal), it is going to be very difficult to show the true effect on everyone.

You are bitching about government delaying (not exempting) certain requirements and paper work for Small Business because it was requested to do so by Small Business?

Really?

So, the bill passed in 2009? Small businesses are just figuring out, "Hey, we need to pump the brakes on this because I am not ready 5 years later?" When you say gov't (aka Obama), delaying certain requirements is illegal. Congress is the only body that can delay certain requirements due to the funding requirements (Hence, the debate on defunding). As for exempting, I believe Congress and it's staff are now exempt from ObamaCare.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, it is not illegal. You are not the authority on this.

This has already by done, Congress has checked off where it needed to, and you are bitching because government helps small business.

You are simply cry babying.

 

[007]

Leverage means strong arming?

That's how the dems passed the law.

So what's the matter, can't take a dose of your own medicine, dems the only ones allowed to do that?

Go pound sand, your hypocritical whining is pathetic.

Dems passed the law because they had the votes. It is how we run the country.

The dems DIDN'T have the votes until they STRONG ARMED the required amount.

Don't bull shit me. You know it, I know it, the whole damn board knows it. Nothing but underhanded, locked door shut outs, under the table, back room deals and buy offs got the votes.

Now some libroid is bitching about republicans doing the will of the people who want obamacare gone by not raising the debt ceiling... it's the absolute HEIGHT of HYPOCRISY.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

That's how the dems passed the law.

So what's the matter, can't take a dose of your own medicine, dems the only ones allowed to do that?

Go pound sand, your hypocritical whining is pathetic.

Dems passed the law because they had the votes. It is how we run the country.

The dems DIDN'T have the votes until they STRONG ARMED the required amount.

Don't bull shit me. You know it, I know it, the whole damn board knows it. Nothing but underhanded, closed door, double dealing, back room deals and buy offs got the votes.

Now some libroid is bitching about republicans doing the will of the people who want obamacare gone by not raising the debt ceiling... it's the absolute HEIGHT of HYPOCRISY.

Sure if by "have the votes" you don't really mean "votes"

 

[JakeStarkey]

(1) the Dems had the votes

(2) the Pubs don't have the votes now and never will

(3) this is over because

(4) the will of the people is to have ACA

 

[007]

(1) the Dems had the votes

(2) the Pubs don't have the votes now and never will

(3) this is over because

(4) the will of the people is to have ACA

(1) Wrong

(2) Wrong

(3) Wrong

(4) Wrong

... and everyone here knows it.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

WASHINGTON, Aug 21 (Reuters) - U.S. Republican lawmakers, who staunchly oppose President Barack Obama's signature healthcare law, are considering using a fall showdown over the country's borrowing limit as leverage to try to delay the law's implementation.

The idea is gaining traction among Republican leaders in the House of Representatives, aides said on Wednesday. An aide to House Majority Leader Eric Cantor said the debt limit is a "good leverage point" to try to force some action on the healthcare law known as "Obamacare."

If House republicans follow through with this it will be further confirmation that most in the GOP are true partisan scum, and indeed place party above country.

 

[Kondor3]

The problem with dialogue is that dialogue requires a degree of honestly. I don't like Obamacare, and apparantly a maj have concerns as well. But, a solid maj favor govt doing something to make sure people have access, and most large employers and medical assocs do too. The desire to "defund" Obamacare has nothing to do with legit concerns that particular elements of the law won't work. Of course they won't work. But, problems can be addressed. I'd have preferred we addressed this when BushI was in office, but we didn't. I'd have preferred Bill Clinton, for that matter, but we didn't.

Ted Cruz is at least honest about the fear that people will like subisidies. Once govt gets a foot in the door with insuring access, people aren't gonna let it go. (it might have been better had we just allowed access without demanding all participate, and having financial disencentives to getting sick w/o insurance) But, be clear, defunding is not about Obamacare, or it's merits or demerits. It's an ideological position that the govt doesn't have a legit role in healthcare access. And that position cannot win elections. Thus, it's really tryanny by a minority.

If that's the case, then vote-out the GOP, in the House as well, in 2014.

Until then, they'll do what they think they need to do.

 

[Kondor3]

WASHINGTON, Aug 21 (Reuters) - U.S. Republican lawmakers, who staunchly oppose President Barack Obama's signature healthcare law, are considering using a fall showdown over the country's borrowing limit as leverage to try to delay the law's implementation.

The idea is gaining traction among Republican leaders in the House of Representatives, aides said on Wednesday. An aide to House Majority Leader Eric Cantor said the debt limit is a "good leverage point" to try to force some action on the healthcare law known as "Obamacare."

If House republicans follow through with this it will be further confirmation that most in the GOP are true partisan scum, and indeed place party above country.

Or, alternatively, that the GOP is now looking at correcting an earlier mistake before it can do more harm, by whatever means are required, in order to get the job done, partisan politics and consequences be damned.