GOP Rep. to criminalize "unauthorized" vaginal bleeding

[manifold]

more smoke and mirrors

the abortion 'issue' is largely settled and is merely used to garner votes from idiots on both sides.

true story

 

[Gadawg73]

As many as 40% of all pregnancies end in miscarriages.

 

[DiveCon]

OK, so once again I have to school the naive and gullible legal scholars.
I am happy to do so as I doubt any of you scholars READ THE ENTIRE BILL:
1. Line 14 of Franklins bill: "Prenatal murder means the intentional removal of a fetus from a woman with an intention other than to produce a live birth or toremove a dead fetus".
Of course Franklin means ABORTION when he says "prenatal murder".
2. On line 18 you will read that a miscarriage may also be prosecuted as prenatal MURDER if it can be shown that the pregnant woman tooksome action that MAY have played a rolein the miscarriage. Note the word MIGHT.
I had dinner with the 20years + Republican district attorney of our county last night. He stated that this law would allow the prosecution for murder with the death penalty as an option of a woman that went out and had 1 glass of wine, drove home, had an accident be it her fault or not, had a miscarriage and some quack coroner or dumb ass politically motivated "investigator" for a south Georgia jurisdiction along with a politically motivated district attorney could easily indict her,convict her and execute her because the woman MAY have played a role in the miscarriage.
IOW, a woman that has suffered the anguish of miscarriage COULD be put into the position of having TO PROVE THAT SHE DID NOTHING whatsoever to cause that miscarriage or face a murder charge.
The district attorney also informed me last night that under this "SCARY" bill that just having a drink and then being involved in an accident, EVEN IF YOU WERE NOT DRIVING, and there was a miscarriage the charges would still apply and she gets death penalty.
Of course the Republican led District Attorneys statewide oppose this shit for brains bill.
But of course we have all of you legal beagle scholars that champion this bill all over and especially in Georgia. After all, we have had numerous brilliant state representatives here. Another comes to mind as I post. That would be the brilliant legislator from north Georgia Representative Bill Bridges in 2007. The good legislator from Georgia distributed a letter to his religous buddies nationally that also are elected legislators in other states anticipating support for his anti evolution teaching bill. The letter was a memorandum from the prestigous scientist Marshall Hall of the Fair Education Foundation which it appears many here are current members. The distinguished Professor Hall offered his scientific arguments and thesis in this paper that he now had indisputable "proven" evidence that teaching evolution in public schools was the result of a conspiracy by Jews and the Jewish liberal media press to take God out of the schools and discredit the Bible. It gets even better sports fans, and the naive and gullible here, when one takes a look at their websiet at The Earth Is Not Moving and see their proof that the earth is standing still, the sun and planets revolve around the earth as the earth is the center of the universe. It has to be true they claim. The Bible says so. It gets better so go and visit for yourself.
This "prenatal murder" is DOA in Georgia because it is politically motivated only and bad law according to prosecutors. But of course we have supporters of the bill. They are the followers of Ben Bridges. The Bible, not the facts and THE LAW, govern their actions.

18 physical, psychological, emotional, and medical well-being. These, too, are areas of

sorry thats what they say

Correction, it is line 114 and 118, NOT 14 and 18.

ok
i'll go look again
i asked where it said these things so i could go look
i read the summary in full
but not the whole bill

 

[DiveCon]

114 (2) 'Prenatal murder' means the intentional removal of a fetus from a woman with an
115 intention other than to produce a live birth or to remove a dead fetus; provided, however,
116 that if a physician makes a medically justified effort to save the lives of both the mother
117 and the fetus and the fetus does not survive, such action shall not be prenatal murder.

i dont see a problem there

118 Such term does not include a naturally occurring expulsion of a fetus known medically
119 as a 'spontaneous abortion' and popularly as a 'miscarriage' so long as there is no human
120 involvement whatsoever in the causation of such event.

again, no problem i see there

 

[Gadawg73]

114 (2) 'Prenatal murder' means the intentional removal of a fetus from a woman with an
115 intention other than to produce a live birth or to remove a dead fetus; provided, however,
116 that if a physician makes a medically justified effort to save the lives of both the mother
117 and the fetus and the fetus does not survive, such action shall not be prenatal murder.

i dont see a problem there

118 Such term does not include a naturally occurring expulsion of a fetus known medically
119 as a 'spontaneous abortion' and popularly as a 'miscarriage' so long as there is no human
120 involvement whatsoever in the causation of such event.

again, no problem i see there

"as long as there is no human involvement"
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT IS A PROBLEM?
Come on man, that is as vague and broad as you can get. Terrible law.
Your wife falls down and has a miscarriage and she could be indicted, tried and convicted on those words ALONE. She is a human and involved in falling down.
Respectfully, you need to get in the real world on this.
The Republican District Attorneys in Georgia see this as a BIG PROBLEM.
Thank God this thing is DOA in a Republican dominated state.
Conservatives always oppose such bills.

 

[DiveCon]

114 (2) 'Prenatal murder' means the intentional removal of a fetus from a woman with an
115 intention other than to produce a live birth or to remove a dead fetus; provided, however,
116 that if a physician makes a medically justified effort to save the lives of both the mother
117 and the fetus and the fetus does not survive, such action shall not be prenatal murder.

i dont see a problem there

118 Such term does not include a naturally occurring expulsion of a fetus known medically
119 as a 'spontaneous abortion' and popularly as a 'miscarriage' so long as there is no human
120 involvement whatsoever in the causation of such event.

again, no problem i see there

"as long as there is no human involvement"
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT IS A PROBLEM?
Come on man, that is as vague and broad as you can get. Terrible law.
Your wife falls down and has a miscarriage and she could be indicted, tried and convicted on those words ALONE. She is a human and involved in falling down.
Respectfully, you need to get in the real world on this.
The Republican District Attorneys in Georgia see this as a BIG PROBLEM.
Thank God this thing is DOA in a Republican dominated state.
Conservatives always oppose such bills.

i think you are reading things into it that just arent there

 

[Two Thumbs]

As many as 40% of all pregnancies end in miscarriages.

What are the chances of having a Miscarriage?
For women in childbearing years, the chances of having a miscarriage can range from 10-25%, and in most healthy women the average is about a 15-20% chance.

An increase in maternal age affects the chances of miscarriage
Women under the age of 35 yrs old have about a 15% chance of miscarriage
Women who are 35-45 yrs old have a 20-35% chance of miscarriage
Women over the age of 45 can have up to a 50% chance of miscarriage
A woman who has had a previous miscarriage has a 25% chance of having another (only a slightly elevated risk than for someone who has not had a previous miscarriage)

Miscarriage : American Pregnancy Association

 

[Gadawg73]

You guys may like this clown Franklin but you know nothing about him. He believes we need to have a Christian theocracy running the country and all laws need Biblical backing.
He called George Bush a worshipper of pagan Gods.
The language in the bill ALLOWS prosecution of any woman having a miscarriage and law enforcement and/or a district attorney indicts them because the miscarriage MAY have been with "human involvement".
That is the charge the Judge will instruct the jury on.
But hey, Franklin wants a Christian nation so jump on board.
But be warned that us conservatives that do not favor the right wing religous right big government types and will fight their ignorant and holier than thou legislation and positions.

 

[Gadawg73]

Some more legislation from the great Bobby Franklin:
He introduced legislation to change the criminal code in Georgia. In all criminal procedure in rape,stalking and family violence the victims can ONLY be referred to as "accusers" instead of defendant.
Note he ONLY wants this in cases of rape, stalking and family violence.
Why? Because 95% of those victims are WOMEN.
Frankiln believes Biblical principles teach that women are subservient to men and that in rape, stalking and family violence the man should be believed greater than a woman.
Go check it out sports fans. He is your baby.
The dude is an absolute FRUIT CAKE and ALL of his proposed legislation reflects it.

 

[DiveCon]

You guys may like this clown Franklin but you know nothing about him. He believes we need to have a Christian theocracy running the country and all laws need Biblical backing.
He called George Bush a worshipper of pagan Gods.
The language in the bill ALLOWS prosecution of any woman having a miscarriage and law enforcement and/or a district attorney indicts them because the miscarriage MAY have been with "human involvement".
That is the charge the Judge will instruct the jury on.
But hey, Franklin wants a Christian nation so jump on board.
But be warned that us conservatives that do not favor the right wing religous right big government types and will fight their ignorant and holier than thou legislation and positions.

i know nothing about him, and dont really care, he's in GA and i live in Maine
i can no more vote for him than i can against him
but what you have shown me from that bill doesnt exactly say what you have claimed

 

[Gadawg73]

As many as 40% of all pregnancies end in miscarriages.

What are the chances of having a Miscarriage?
For women in childbearing years, the chances of having a miscarriage can range from 10-25%, and in most healthy women the average is about a 15-20% chance.

An increase in maternal age affects the chances of miscarriage
Women under the age of 35 yrs old have about a 15% chance of miscarriage
Women who are 35-45 yrs old have a 20-35% chance of miscarriage
Women over the age of 45 can have up to a 50% chance of miscarriage
A woman who has had a previous miscarriage has a 25% chance of having another (only a slightly elevated risk than for someone who has not had a previous miscarriage)

Miscarriage : American Pregnancy Association

"As many as" ................................................

 

[DiveCon]

Some more legislation from the great Bobby Franklin:
He introduced legislation to change the criminal code in Georgia. In all criminal procedure in rape,stalking and family violence the victims can ONLY be referred to as "accusers" instead of defendant.
Note he ONLY wants this in cases of rape, stalking and family violence.
Why? Because 95% of those victims are WOMEN.
Frankiln believes Biblical principles teach that women are subservient to men and that in rape, stalking and family violence the man should be believed greater than a woman.
Go check it out sports fans. He is your baby.
The dude is an absolute FRUIT CAKE and ALL of his proposed legislation reflects it.

how the hell did this guy get elected?

 

[R.D.]

um, can someone please show me where that is in this bill
HB*1*(Summary)*2011-2012 Regular Session

HERE

Last modified: April 27, 2006, when inquiry is required by

THIS Last Updated on 01/02/97

This is just more pro-abortion smear tactics I think.

please give the line numbers

Regarding bleeding I can't because there are none

The laws are about investigating fetal deaths.

 

[Agit8r]

You guys may like this clown Franklin but you know nothing about him. He believes we need to have a Christian theocracy running the country and all laws need Biblical backing.

sounds a lot like the "Muslim Brotherhood" that everyone is so scared of...

 

[DiveCon]

Some more legislation from the great Bobby Franklin:
He introduced legislation to change the criminal code in Georgia. In all criminal procedure in rape,stalking and family violence the victims can ONLY be referred to as "accusers" instead of defendant.
Note he ONLY wants this in cases of rape, stalking and family violence.
Why? Because 95% of those victims are WOMEN.
Frankiln believes Biblical principles teach that women are subservient to men and that in rape, stalking and family violence the man should be believed greater than a woman.
Go check it out sports fans. He is your baby.
The dude is an absolute FRUIT CAKE and ALL of his proposed legislation reflects it.

how the hell did this guy get elected?

btw, some links to back that up would be helpful

 

[RadiomanATL]

i dont see a problem there


again, no problem i see there

"as long as there is no human involvement"
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT IS A PROBLEM?
Come on man, that is as vague and broad as you can get. Terrible law.
Your wife falls down and has a miscarriage and she could be indicted, tried and convicted on those words ALONE. She is a human and involved in falling down.
Respectfully, you need to get in the real world on this.
The Republican District Attorneys in Georgia see this as a BIG PROBLEM.
Thank God this thing is DOA in a Republican dominated state.
Conservatives always oppose such bills.

i think you are reading things into it that just arent there

Actually, this is getting some news down here. There is very little doubt that this loony WOULD see a pregnant woman falling down the stairs and stuff as a "human involvement" and should be prosecuted.

Luckily, no one takes him seriously so I dunno why GaDawg is acting like this guy is going to be POTUS one day.

Here's some more on him:

Sponsored by Representative Franklin and dropped in the House Hopper on February 13, 2009, House Bill 430, the "Constitutional Tender Act", aims to make gold and silver the only legal tender for payment of debts in the state of Georgia pursuant to Article I Section 10 of the U.S. Constitution.[4] Franklin maintains that all fifty U.S. states are in violation of this Constitutional stipulation as paper and electronic bank notes (Federal Reserve Accounting Unit Dollars) are used nearly exclusively as tender.

In January 2011, Franklin sponsored a bill that would do away with driver′s licenses in the State of Georgia. Franklin stated that the licenses represented “oppressive times” and “licensing of drivers cannot be required of free people, because taking on the restrictions of a license requires the surrender of an inalienable right.” He further stated that the freedom of movement by operating an automobile should be open to all Americans, regardless of age or driving skills. He cemented these beliefs by noting that he does not object to 12 year old children driving cars on Georgia Highways.[8]

Franklin is a fierce opponent of abortion and gay rights. Franklin holds that America has strayed from its Christian past and the country needs to be changed into a Christian nation. Franklin believes that legislation that is in direct opposition to God's word will bring about the wrath of God. In 2010, Franklin stated, "Islamic terrorism is not the greatest threat facing America. God is."[13] Franklin claims that President George W. Bush "praises the gods of pagan religions."[14]

Bobby Franklin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Franklin's legislation does not clarify what defines human involvement or how this would be enforced.

Franklin did not return a message seeking comment. His voicemail greeting thanks callers for "calling to give me encouragement about sponsorship of HB 1 that recognizes prenatal murder is murder. I'm not able to take that encouragement right now."

His office told FoxNews.com that the "right-to-life" bill is "not as stab at people who miscarriages." Franklin has introduced the bill each session since 2002 but it has never made it out of committee, his office said, adding that it likely never will.

Georgia Lawmaker's Anti-Abortion Proposal Could Punish Women for Miscarriages - FoxNews.com

 

[RadiomanATL]

He's basically a watered down Fred Phelps with a small dash of Ron Paul thrown in.

 

[Care4all]

So you are making an accusation based off an assumption.

Just how far do you think an investigation would go?

Beyond her doctor filing a report, or the coroner, it won't go further unless they know she intended to kill her baby.

How is my reading the proposed law "an assumption"?
Respectfully, obviously, you have never defended a criminal case in court.
No offense to you but if you believe it would not go any further you are naive.
The bill allows for prosecution and has no definition of intent in it.
So ALL cases aresubject to prosecution. You believe NO jurisdiction would pursue prosecution "unless they know she intended to kill her baby"?
How does someone "know"?Excuse me sir, but that is absurd.
The bill forces the woman TO PROVE SHE IS INNOCENT.
That is not how the law should work. We are PRESUMED INNOCENT.
Prenatal death means ALL prenatal deaths.
What about that do you not understand?

*Cop arrives at the scene of fetal death, probably days afterwards since he has more important things to do*
Cop; Ok doctor what happened?
Dr; It was a natural occurance, sad but true.
Cop; Thanks doc, see you in a couple of weeks.
*cop leaves. goes to talk to mother*
Cop; goodday mame. sorry for your loss. Would you tell me what happend please.
Woman; gives valid reason, based on what she knows.
cop; thank you and good luck.
*cop leaves, files report*


I've never been in a court room, but I'm not an idiot.

i'm sorry but that cop in your example has no business knowing that i miscarried, none, nada, niente, zip, zilch, ZERO business....and it would traumatize me to have to answer any questions from a stranger, about my ordeal, my miscarriage....that i had gone through....

THAT'S how I view it, and YOU should too?

THAT is government over reach to the nth degree imho!

 

[Old Rocks]

Godawg is pointing out the differance between conservatives and Conservatives.

The viewpoint of Conservatives is all ideological, and ideology, to a Conservative, is far more important than reality. Dare differ with one on any issue, and no matter how long you have been a conservative and a Republican, you are now a RINO.

It is not just Franklin, there are a bunch of Teabaggers and GOP Conservatives going down this road on everything from global warming to human rights.

 

[DiveCon]

He's basically a watered down Fred Phelps with a small dash of Ron Paul thrown in.

actually he sounds kinda like our resident dwarfers
LOL