Gop wants to reduce what private insurance covers and the dims want to end private insurance.

[hadit]

Wow, you don't think do you. So all surgeons are the same? Maybe you get the really experienced one or maybe you get the joker just out of MedSchool who finished last in his class......
Oh and since it's the government, and you cant get fired....why try and learn new techniques, you cant monetize it.....you get zero out of trying to improve yourself

So you are saying people look for the best surgeon and don’t shop price. I agree, that’s why markets don’t work in healthcare.

One part of healthcare has not been covered by insurance and we have seen quality consistently go up while prices have cone down, and that's Lasik eye surgery. Today, you can get it done on sale or you can pay a lot, it's up to you. And yes, you see ads touting low costs.

Interesting example. Looks like price has gone up however.

The average cost of LASIK surgery performed the United States in 2017 was $2,088 per eye, according to a report prepared for All About Vision by a leading vision care industry analytics company.

This is slightly higher than the average price for LASIK performed in the U.S. in 2016, which was $2,059 per eye.



https://www.allaboutvision.com/visionsurgery/cost.htm

I believe that may be due to the nature of the technology, and may reflect the natural commodity price of the product.

Maybe. It has a lot of competition from glasses and contact lenses. It’s easy to pass on, not like needing heart surgery.

And that is my point. A lot of healthcare concerns that insurance now attempts to cover could be dealt with differently. We're getting pushed into government supplied and controlled healthcare when we don't really need to.

 

[Brain357]

But it’s not. When it comes to life or death, people aren’t great consumers.

No they really are.
Do you live in the US?
People will shop for their own funeral stuff.......keyword SHOP
they will shop for their own doctor.......the reason they don't now, is the system doesn't let them.

Sure. So somebody needs life saving surgery. You think they will pick the Chevy surgery over the Lexus surgery. That is funny.

Well why do they pick Chevys over Lexus now?

Because the Chevy will get you there just as well. Now death from a bad surgery is quite different...

Well Volvos are the safest cars...why not get those?
Ok so everyone uses the best surgeon in the world? He must be tired right now..........yes that's sarcasm
An d notice how he is only obsessed with life/death care which is a small amount of health care....I love it when they do that, like rape with abortion......yeah lets ignore everything else because of a .2% chance.

Emergency and surgery care are the ones that break the bank. Why should I be concerned with the little stuff?

 

[buckeye45_73]

That's how all products work.
It comes out, it's expensive so only rich people can get it
then the price drastically comes down....then after it stabilizes it goes up yearly just like anything else
So yes healthcare is a product just like any other in the US......which is why shopping will work to reduce costs.

But it’s not. When it comes to life or death, people aren’t great consumers.

No they really are.
Do you live in the US?
People will shop for their own funeral stuff.......keyword SHOP
they will shop for their own doctor.......the reason they don't now, is the system doesn't let them.

Sure. So somebody needs life saving surgery. You think they will pick the Chevy surgery over the Lexus surgery. That is funny.

As is the case with virtually everything, there are extremes that contest the rule. For the vast majority of healthcare concerns, the lowest cost may will suffice. When dealing with life and death, not so much.

And the life and death ones break the bank...

So lets apply it to the other stuff.....win/win.....for catstrophic have a spate policy....bang solved it in one shot....except you cant always get the best surgeon in the world.......sucks to be you.

 

[hadit]

That's how all products work.
It comes out, it's expensive so only rich people can get it
then the price drastically comes down....then after it stabilizes it goes up yearly just like anything else
So yes healthcare is a product just like any other in the US......which is why shopping will work to reduce costs.

But it’s not. When it comes to life or death, people aren’t great consumers.

No they really are.
Do you live in the US?
People will shop for their own funeral stuff.......keyword SHOP
they will shop for their own doctor.......the reason they don't now, is the system doesn't let them.

Sure. So somebody needs life saving surgery. You think they will pick the Chevy surgery over the Lexus surgery. That is funny.

As is the case with virtually everything, there are extremes that contest the rule. For the vast majority of healthcare concerns, the lowest cost may will suffice. When dealing with life and death, not so much.

And the life and death ones break the bank...

They can, without catastrophic coverage, which should be a lot cheaper.

 

[Brain357]

You just said both parties use them. So yes it would be politically bad . Dems and repubs have same healthcare needs.

Are you're really saying, with a straight face, that Republicans wouldn't try to monkey with health care for political reasons???

Yes. As long as Dems and repubs have the same healthcare needs. They always talk about cutting, how much actually happens?

None, because the right tries, the left throws a fit and the right backs off......the problem is we need leaders not politicians......and voila.......President Trump

Trump is turning us into Greece with all the spending...

Oh Obama showed fiscal restraint........are you trolling or just high?

We were talking spending cuts and trump only demands more spending. You must have been joking.

 

[Brain357]

So you are saying people look for the best surgeon and don’t shop price. I agree, that’s why markets don’t work in healthcare.

One part of healthcare has not been covered by insurance and we have seen quality consistently go up while prices have cone down, and that's Lasik eye surgery. Today, you can get it done on sale or you can pay a lot, it's up to you. And yes, you see ads touting low costs.

Interesting example. Looks like price has gone up however.

The average cost of LASIK surgery performed the United States in 2017 was $2,088 per eye, according to a report prepared for All About Vision by a leading vision care industry analytics company.

This is slightly higher than the average price for LASIK performed in the U.S. in 2016, which was $2,059 per eye.



https://www.allaboutvision.com/visionsurgery/cost.htm

I believe that may be due to the nature of the technology, and may reflect the natural commodity price of the product.

Maybe. It has a lot of competition from glasses and contact lenses. It’s easy to pass on, not like needing heart surgery.

And that is my point. A lot of healthcare concerns that insurance now attempts to cover could be dealt with differently. We're getting pushed into government supplied and controlled healthcare when we don't really need to.

But those aren’t the big $$ ones.

 

[buckeye45_73]

No they really are.
Do you live in the US?
People will shop for their own funeral stuff.......keyword SHOP
they will shop for their own doctor.......the reason they don't now, is the system doesn't let them.

Sure. So somebody needs life saving surgery. You think they will pick the Chevy surgery over the Lexus surgery. That is funny.

Well why do they pick Chevys over Lexus now?

Because the Chevy will get you there just as well. Now death from a bad surgery is quite different...

Well Volvos are the safest cars...why not get those?
Ok so everyone uses the best surgeon in the world? He must be tired right now..........yes that's sarcasm
An d notice how he is only obsessed with life/death care which is a small amount of health care....I love it when they do that, like rape with abortion......yeah lets ignore everything else because of a .2% chance.

Emergency and surgery care are the ones that break the bank. Why should I be concerned with the little stuff?

Because that's the stuff most people use.......not everyone on insurance is 85 with cancer......that's what you make it sound like

 

[Brain357]

Sure. So somebody needs life saving surgery. You think they will pick the Chevy surgery over the Lexus surgery. That is funny.

Well why do they pick Chevys over Lexus now?

Because the Chevy will get you there just as well. Now death from a bad surgery is quite different...

Well Volvos are the safest cars...why not get those?
Ok so everyone uses the best surgeon in the world? He must be tired right now..........yes that's sarcasm
An d notice how he is only obsessed with life/death care which is a small amount of health care....I love it when they do that, like rape with abortion......yeah lets ignore everything else because of a .2% chance.

Emergency and surgery care are the ones that break the bank. Why should I be concerned with the little stuff?

Because that's the stuff most people use.......not everyone on insurance is 85 with cancer......that's what you make it sound like

No they aren’t, but many have a preexisting condition or will need emergency care.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I have Kaiser, and there was no cost for my colonoscopy., no cost for my annual physical and no cost for labs.

Of course, there was. The doctors and hospital staff didn't do it for free, did they?

It really doesn't dawn on them that everything costs......these people think fairies just popup and stuff is done, except, on RICH REPUBLICANS have these....and those poor democrats are being denied these fairies because of racism/sexism.........

Early detection is cost effective.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I'm for Medicare for all & fuck the insurance guy.

Uh huh. Medicare is farmed out to insurance companies. You're not fooling anyone.

The clerical work needs done. Are you confising clerivpcal work with how the plan is enacted?

I'm pointing out that insurance companies make big bucks from Medicare now. "Medicare for All" will be an even bigger cash cow for them.

Big 5 insurers depend on Medicare, Medicaid for growth in enrollment, profits

I'm for Medicare for all & fuck the insurance guy.

Uh huh. Medicare is farmed out to insurance companies. You're not fooling anyone.

The clerical work needs done. Are you confising clerivpcal work with how the plan is enacted?

I'm pointing out that insurance companies make big bucks from Medicare now. "Medicare for All" will be an even bigger cash cow for them.

Big 5 insurers depend on Medicare, Medicaid for growth in enrollment, profits

So you say, here's a link:

$42 Billion of Medicare and Medicaid Fraud Thwarted by ‘Big Data’ Analytics

Greed Report: Obamacare was supposed to fight health care fraud. How’s that working out?

Crackdown on Medicare Fraud Is Producing Some Impressive Results

Um... ok. Random links about Medicare fraud. Are you sure you're not responding to someone else's post? This has nothing to do with my comments.

Has the Trump Administration done anything such as this or is he too busy playing golf, tweeting, attacking HRC and Obama and saying "no collusion"?

I don't know and don't care. Again, does this in any way relate to my post? Did you even read it? Have you been following the thread at all?

Well, I admit skipping pages of you and the others and the engagement in echoing each other. Why not just state you don't want to pay for health insurance, and carry a card: If found in need of medical care, don't call for an ambulance, simply walk on by.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Then it would be politically bad for repubs to mess with it. Try to keep up.

No, it wouldn't. They won the last election on these kind of issues. Is your head still in the sand regarding that fact? Do you really trust the Republicans to make your health care decisions for you?

You just said both parties use them. So yes it would be politically bad . Dems and repubs have same healthcare needs.

Are you're really saying, with a straight face, that Republicans wouldn't try to monkey with health care for political reasons???

Yes. As long as Dems and repubs have the same healthcare needs. They always talk about cutting, how much actually happens?

None, because the right tries, the left throws a fit and the right backs off......the problem is we need leaders not politicians......and voila.......President Trump

And trump needs lemmings. Beware of the cliff.

 

[Papageorgio]

Yes, I definitely need to be protected from the "horrors" of having a health care plan that doesn't cover prostate exams or birth control. What would I, a 50-year-old woman, do without those "essential" coverages in my life? And how could anyone POSSIBLY assume I'm intelligent enough to decide for myself what I do and don't need, simply because I'm an adult who looks after herself on everything else in my life?

Callous conservatism on display ^^^.

Q. When did so many American citizens become so greedy, and have no concern for their fellow citizens

How is a female that is over 50, callous? Why should a person be forced to pay to cover health issues she will never have? That makes no sense? Can you actually answer the question?

Sure, insurance companies do not exist to pay claims, thus, most of us pay for surgeries and treatments we may never need.

Prior to Obamacare, females over 50 and men didn't pay for maternity coverage. The vast majority of them didn't pay for coverage for sex change operations either.

I can't fathom why it's such a difficult concept that people should be able to decide for themselves what insurance they want to pay for. We do it with car insurance, homeowners' insurance, every other damned insurance under the sun, but when it comes to health insurance, suddenly everyone has to have the same "minimum coverage" for every frigging organ system and possible illness under the sun, whether it has anything to do with you or not.

That’s because left wing nuts believe they know better than you do about your health and what you want and need. They need to mind their own business.

 

[dblack]

And trump needs lemmings. Beware of the cliff.

So, I'm trying to wrap my head around this "idiot-gram" concept. Can you provide an example?

 

[Papageorgio]

The decision to cover or not to cover should be at the discretion of the insurance companies

Minimum coverages are set to protect the consumer.

Yes, I definitely need to be protected from the "horrors" of having a health care plan that doesn't cover prostate exams or birth control. What would I, a 50-year-old woman, do without those "essential" coverages in my life? And how could anyone POSSIBLY assume I'm intelligent enough to decide for myself what I do and don't need, simply because I'm an adult who looks after herself on everything else in my life?

prostate exams were covered before obamacare and again I guess I should say depending on what insurance company and state.

Remember the great ObamaCare benefit of paying for colonoscopies? I paid over $3000 out of pocket for my "covered" colonoscopy. Prior to ObamaCare, it would have covered at 90% under my company provided health insurance. How did ObamaCare help that situation?

Being such a big asshole I would have expected you would have been given a discount [lol]. But, I digress. A colonoscopy is preventative medicine, and ought to be free, since not having early detection the cost will be much expensive if cancer is diagnosed years later.

I have Kaiser, and there was no cost for my colonoscopy., no cost for my annual physical and no cost for labs.

I have had Kaiser, since 2014, I paid for my colonoscopy and pay for my annual physical and the labs I pay for. $600 a month, $1800 deductible. I don’t go to my doctor even though they are constantly calling to schedule tests.

 

[Andylusion]

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.

Allowing insurance companies to choose what their policies cover, allows people who want more comprehensive coverage to buy the insurance policies they want, while those who want something simpler and cheaper, to get the policies they want.

In 2006, I had an insurance policy that covered everything I needed, for $67/month.

The cheapest policy I can get today is $300/month. And the deductible on my $67/month policy was less than half the deductible on that $300 policy... which is why I don't have insurance at all right now.

The GOP plan to allow more of a free-market in insurance, will provide more options, and better prices.

Sounds great....

Wonder why we felt like there was a healthcare crisis to begin with

Everything seemed much better before 2009.....I wonder how millions more people got coverage when insurance was way cheaper before

It was in fact, way better before. There never was a 'healthcare crisis'.

 

[Andylusion]

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.

Allowing insurance companies to choose what their policies cover, allows people who want more comprehensive coverage to buy the insurance policies they want, while those who want something simpler and cheaper, to get the policies they want.

In 2006, I had an insurance policy that covered everything I needed, for $67/month.

The cheapest policy I can get today is $300/month. And the deductible on my $67/month policy was less than half the deductible on that $300 policy... which is why I don't have insurance at all right now.

The GOP plan to allow more of a free-market in insurance, will provide more options, and better prices.

Sounds great....

Wonder why we felt like there was a healthcare crisis to begin with

Everything seemed much better before 2009.....I wonder how millions more people got coverage when insurance was way cheaper before

Costs have been skyrocketing since long before 2009...

They have increased much worse, and faster since 2009. That's a proven statistical fact.

Regardless, it is true that costs were going up fast prior to 2009. But there were reasons... namely that technological advance has continued. Additionally you have the cost of Medicare and Medicaid that was pushed onto insurance companies through cost shifting. Then you have the government preventing the opening of new hospitals and clinics, and of course limiting the opening of schools to train more doctors, which constrained the supply.

It's all true that prices were going up, and nearly all of it can be traced back to government. Even intellectual property rights have driven up prices, and that is all a function of government. In a free market, the idea of saying you can't have the same idea as me, is ridiculous.

 

[Andylusion]

No. That kind of shit is weak tea. You can tell me socialism in the US will be rainbows and unicorns, and I can say it will be Venezuela on acid. Both are (almost) entirely unsupported predictions. All I know is what's going on in our country. And politics here are bitterly divided and nasty. Turning health care into a political matter will only throwing fuel on that fire. If you think "scare the seniors" is bad, wait until we're all in the same health care boat and "scare the sick" becomes the political tool of choice.

Most people regardless of party have the same healthcare needs.

Uh.... that's seems obviously untrue. But regardless, what about the "not most" people? Why should minorities before forced to accept what the majority needs? Are they supposed to just take one for the team?

A dem needing a quadruple bypass is the same as a rep.

Many people can’t afford their needs. Why should people go bankrupt for health needs?

Are you trying to answer my question, or divert to something else because you don't have a good answer to my question?

I’m telling you needs are in fact pretty much the same regardless of party.

I’m also telling you the poor get worse care than the rich.

Well yes. People who work for more money, will be able to afford more stuff. I can't have the same house as a CEO either. I can't have the same car as a CEO.

And equally why should someone who doesn't get up at 4 AM every day, and work a 40 hour week, be able to have the same stuff I have?

You get what you earn. If you don't pay for something, you shouldn't have it.

If I earn enough money to pay for the very best in healthcare, then that is what I should get.
I don't know why people think they have a right to other people's hard work.

Now if you wish to give charity care, I'm all for that. I worked for a shelter that had a free clinic, where doctors that worked regular jobs earning their big money, would work 1 day a week at the clinic, and help people at zero charge.

By all means do that.

But this idea that being poor, means you are entitled to my hard work, and I am required at the point of the Federal gun at my head, to pay for your health care? No. Personal responsibility means just that.

And give me this crap that I don't care, because you are the one who doesn't care. You are not giving of your time and money freely, like I did at the shelter. You are merely demanding other people pay for the care of the poor. You don't care at all.

 

[buckeye45_73]

I have Kaiser, and there was no cost for my colonoscopy., no cost for my annual physical and no cost for labs.

Of course, there was. The doctors and hospital staff didn't do it for free, did they?

It really doesn't dawn on them that everything costs......these people think fairies just popup and stuff is done, except, on RICH REPUBLICANS have these....and those poor democrats are being denied these fairies because of racism/sexism.........

Early detection is cost effective.

OK, so then they will include it...

 

[buckeye45_73]

Well why do they pick Chevys over Lexus now?

Because the Chevy will get you there just as well. Now death from a bad surgery is quite different...

Well Volvos are the safest cars...why not get those?
Ok so everyone uses the best surgeon in the world? He must be tired right now..........yes that's sarcasm
An d notice how he is only obsessed with life/death care which is a small amount of health care....I love it when they do that, like rape with abortion......yeah lets ignore everything else because of a .2% chance.

Emergency and surgery care are the ones that break the bank. Why should I be concerned with the little stuff?

Because that's the stuff most people use.......not everyone on insurance is 85 with cancer......that's what you make it sound like

No they aren’t, but many have a preexisting condition or will need emergency care.

Most people will go to the doctor to refill a prescription or check for the flu waaaaaaaaay more often then death care...…as for preexisting conditions, it will be covered....nooone wants to deny that.

 

[Brain357]

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.

Allowing insurance companies to choose what their policies cover, allows people who want more comprehensive coverage to buy the insurance policies they want, while those who want something simpler and cheaper, to get the policies they want.

In 2006, I had an insurance policy that covered everything I needed, for $67/month.

The cheapest policy I can get today is $300/month. And the deductible on my $67/month policy was less than half the deductible on that $300 policy... which is why I don't have insurance at all right now.

The GOP plan to allow more of a free-market in insurance, will provide more options, and better prices.

Sounds great....

Wonder why we felt like there was a healthcare crisis to begin with

Everything seemed much better before 2009.....I wonder how millions more people got coverage when insurance was way cheaper before

Costs have been skyrocketing since long before 2009...

They have increased much worse, and faster since 2009. That's a proven statistical fact.

Regardless, it is true that costs were going up fast prior to 2009. But there were reasons... namely that technological advance has continued. Additionally you have the cost of Medicare and Medicaid that was pushed onto insurance companies through cost shifting. Then you have the government preventing the opening of new hospitals and clinics, and of course limiting the opening of schools to train more doctors, which constrained the supply.

It's all true that prices were going up, and nearly all of it can be traced back to government. Even intellectual property rights have driven up prices, and that is all a function of government. In a free market, the idea of saying you can't have the same idea as me, is ridiculous.

How are they limiting the opening of schools? Link please.